Towing with a 2017 Ford Expedition EL

[John and Debbie]

Hi all,  so we haven't ordered an Oliver yet,  as my wife is hesitant due to the cost,  but it appears that our Ford Expedition could tow a LE2 very easily.   It's rated at 6,600 pounds of tow capability.   The LE2 weighs about 4,600 pounds if I recall.   How would that tv do out west going up our mountains.   Is 6,600 pounds the tow ability crossing the plains with a strong tail wind or is that real world towing.   A lot of freeways max out about 6% grade here in the west I think.   At what point would our tv cry uncle!?   I rode my bicycle across the country twice and some grades were up to 13-15%.  Could our tv handle that? 

[ScubaRx]

On average, a fully loaded Elite II will weigh in at 6000 pounds or more. Personally, I'd consider a 6600 pound towing capacity extremely marginal. Plus, your cargo carrying capacity would be very limited as the tongue weight of the Oliver will be about 600 pounds.

All that said, it would easily handle the weight of the Elite and be a reasonably good tow vehicle for it. 

Many owners are towing with a 2500 3/4 ton diesel vehicle. Some are even using 3500 1 ton vehicle. At the end of the day, you're gonna need a bigger truck for an Elite II. 

 

[Frank C]

We towed with a 2017 Expedition EL initially.  It was ok for towing as equipped with the Ford factory max tow package, but on long steep grades the 3.5 liter V6 eco-boost engine was really working hard.  And your tow rating of 6,600 sounds really low to tow an Elite II.    The 4,600 lbs Elite II weight number you quoted is the empty dry weight without any options, with empty tanks, and with no personal belongings, food, etc.  Most people end up well over  5,000 lbs if not closer to 6,000 lbs.  Do you have the full factory max tow package?  Ours as equipped with the Ford factory max tow package was rated at 9,000 lbs towing or so.  But it did require the Andersen weight distribution hitch.   But we upgraded though to a Ford F-250 because of cargo / payload capacity.  Most people overlook that rating in their tow vehicle selection.  Check the sticker on your Expedition driver’s door jamb for the cargo/payload capacity.  Ours was only about 1,500 lbs.  And with 2 adults plus luggage, a loaded cooler of food, camping gear plus the tongue weight of the Oliver of 500 to 600 lbs, and you’ll find that you hit your cargo / payload limit pretty quickly.   The F-250 as ours is equipped has 12,600 lbs towing and 3,334 lbs payload capacity. And it doesn’t require the Andersen weight distribution hitch.

Expedition towing the Elite II

 

The F-250 towing the Elite II

 

[SeaDawg]

There's at least one person here who has put his e2 on a diet, and kept his weight under 5000 lbs. Tows in the Appalachian mountains with a small truck. 

Maybe he'll chime in.

 

[John and Debbie]

19 minutes ago, FrankC said:

We towed with a 2017 Expedition EL initially.  It was ok for towing as equipped with the Ford factory max tow package, but on long steep grades the 3.5 liter V6 eco-boost engine was really working hard.  And your tow rating of 6,600 sounds really low to tow an Elite II.    The 4,600 lbs Elite II weight number you quoted is the empty dry weight without any options, with empty tanks, and with no personal belongings, food, etc.  Most people end up well over  5,000 lbs if not closer to 6,000 lbs.  Do you have the full factory max tow package?  Ours as equipped with the Ford factory max tow package was rated at 9,000 lbs towing or so.  But it did require the Andersen weight distribution hitch.   But we upgraded though to a Ford F-250 because of cargo / payload capacity.  Most people overlook that rating in their tow vehicle selection.  Check the sticker on your Expedition driver’s door jamb for the cargo/payload capacity.  Ours was only about 1,500 lbs.  And with 2 adults plus luggage, a loaded cooler of food, camping gear plus the tongue weight of the Oliver of 500 to 600 lbs, and you’ll find that you hit your cargo / payload limit pretty quickly.   The F-250 as ours is equipped has 12,600 lbs towing and 3,334 lbs payload capacity. And it doesn’t require the Andersen weight distribution hitch.

Expedition towing the Elite II

 

The F-250 towing the Elite II

 

I looked at driver's door jam.   It lists 7600 gvwr.   It does have the tow package.   It will be an easier sell to my wife if we don't have to get a different vehicle.   I am not sure if I answered your question. 

[ScubaRx]

That's your gross vehicle weight rating and is not the information you're looking for. Look for the tire sticker and it will have a line that says ..."the weight of occupants and cargo should not exceed xxxx pounds"  This is your cargo carrying capacity.

[ScubaRx]

Remember that the weight of everything you've added to the vehicle or put into the vehicle comes out of the cargo carrying capacity (CCC). 

i.e. for two adults, between 300 and 400 pounds or whatever your actually weigh. The tongue weight of the trailer, easily 500-600 pounds for the EII. Those two things will usually eat up about half of the CCC.

Then there's everything else, cell phones, pets, all your camping gear, clothes not stored in the trailer, the hitch and ball you put into the receiver. This includes literally everything that was not attached to the car when you picked it up new.

 

[Frank C]

18 minutes ago, John Welte said:

I looked at driver's door jam.   It lists 7600 gvwr.   It does have the tow package.   It will be an easier sell to my wife if we don't have to get a different vehicle.   I am not sure if I answered your question. 

The GVWR is the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating and that number includes the weight of the vehicle itself.  That is not the cargo / payload rating.  As mentioned above, look for the sticker that looks like this with the “never exceed” number. 

[SeaDawg]

So, the two go hand in hand. 

If you put the e2 on a diet, get the trailer and tongue weight down by transferring storage to the tow vehicle,  you still have limits, because of your vehicle' cargo capacity .

Does that make sense?

 

[Nancy K.]

This is a helpful video.  https://www.keepyourdaydream.com/payload/

[BackofBeyond]

1 hour ago, Nancy K. said:

This is a helpful video.  https://www.keepyourdaydream.com/payload/

This should be required viewing for any question related to the ? - will my TV handle the EII.  

A very good primer - 

RB

[John and Debbie]

5 hours ago, Nancy K. said:

This is a helpful video.  https://www.keepyourdaydream.com/payload/

That was very useful.   It's a lot more complicated than I thought.   Thanks for the link. 

[ChrisMI]

With the longer wheelbase, high base curb weight, and the probability it’s based on a half ton truck chassis I think it might make a great tow vehicle. I wouldn’t give up on it too quickly. What is the payload of your EL?  

[John and Debbie]

1 hour ago, ChrisMI said:

With the longer wheelbase, high base curb weight, and the probability it’s based on a half ton truck chassis I think it might make a great tow vehicle. I wouldn’t give up on it too quickly. What is the payload of your EL?  

The combined weight of occupants and cargo should not exceed 1408 pounds.   I weigh 200, my wife weighs 140.  I think the hitch weight is 700 pounds on the LE2.  We would probably have about 6000 pounds in the trailer with water, clothes and food.   Usually with our tent trailer we just hook up to city water at the cg.   We haven't done boondocking with our tent trailer.   I foresee doing mostly state parks and hooking up to water and electricity.   I am thinking of the composting toilet so wouldn't use the black tank.   Does this sound doable? 

[John and Debbie]

1 hour ago, John Welte said:

The combined weight of occupants and cargo should not exceed 1408 pounds.   I weigh 200, my wife weighs 140.  I think the hitch weight is 700 pounds on the LE2.  We would probably have about 6000 pounds in the trailer with water, clothes and food.   Usually with our tent trailer we just hook up to city water at the cg.   We haven't done boondocking with our tent trailer.   I foresee doing mostly state parks and hooking up to water and electricity.   I am thinking of the composting toilet so wouldn't use the black tank.   Does this sound doable? 

It has the heavy duty tow package as it's a Limited trim package with the 7 prong connector and the manual brake adjuster.   For 2017, the deciding factor if it has the heavy duty tow package is the 7 prong connector.   Maybe I am OK after all. 

[Ray and Susan Huff]

3 hours ago, ChrisMI said:

With the longer wheelbase, high base curb weight, and the probability it’s based on a half ton truck chassis I think it might make a great tow vehicle. I wouldn’t give up on it too quickly. What is the payload of your EL?  

Dad's Expedition was a 1998 built on the 1/2 ton, long bed truck chassis.  With the seats folded, the cargo space of the Expedition was the same size as a pickup bed, able to carry full sheets of plywood.  This from Trailers.com

1998	Ford	Expedition 4x2	5.4 V-8	8000 lb
	Notes:  Requires automatic transmission. Requires Trailer Towing Package. Requires 3.55:1 axle ratio. Requires 3.73:1 axle ratio. Requires 16-inch tires. A higher tow rating is listed for pickups that tow fifth-wheel trailers.

  When we debated whether to keep it or not, I researched new Expeditions.  At the time (around 2015) I was told the new Expeditions were not built on the pickup chassis, but rather a mini-van chassis.  I don't know if this is true or is still the case.  We opted for a BMW X5-300d instead.

A good resource for Expedition towing capacity from year 2000-2021 can be found here

[John and Debbie]

1 hour ago, Ray and Susan Huff said:

Dad's Expedition was a 1998 built on the 1/2 ton, long bed truck chassis.  With the seats folded, the cargo space of the Expedition was the same size as a pickup bed, able to carry full sheets of plywood.  This from Trailers.com

1998	Ford	Expedition 4x2	5.4 V-8	8000 lb
	Notes:  Requires automatic transmission. Requires Trailer Towing Package. Requires 3.55:1 axle ratio. Requires 3.73:1 axle ratio. Requires 16-inch tires. A higher tow rating is listed for pickups that tow fifth-wheel trailers.

  When we debated whether to keep it or not, I researched new Expeditions.  At the time (around 2015) I was told the new Expeditions were not built on the pickup chassis, but rather a mini-van chassis.  I don't know if this is true or is still the case.  We opted for a BMW X5-300d instead.

A good resource for Expedition towing capacity from year 2000-2021 can be found here

It looks like my 2017 EL Limited has a towing capacity of 9200 pounds.   I think that I will be OK with it.   I like the vehicle and I can get whole sheets of 4x8 plywood.   Thanks for your comments.   Now to get my wife on the same page.   She is still talking about an R-Pod and I am thinking Oliver LE2.

[ScubaRx]

2 hours ago, John Welte said:

4 hours ago, John Welte said:

The combined weight of occupants and cargo should not exceed 1408 pounds.   I weigh 200, my wife weighs 140.  I think the hitch weight is 700 pounds on the LE2.  We would probably have about 6000 pounds in the trailer with water, clothes and food.   Usually with our tent trailer we just hook up to city water at the cg.   We haven't done boondocking with our tent trailer.   I foresee doing mostly state parks and hooking up to water and electricity.   I am thinking of the composting toilet so wouldn't use the black tank.   Does this sound doable? 

 

Based on your supplied numbers, you have the capacity for 368 more pounds of cargo in your vehicle. Be careful, it won't take long to get there. I would not try to shift weight from the vehicle to the trailer since you're already so close to your max tow rating.

[ChrisMI]

6 hours ago, John Welte said:

It looks like my 2017 EL Limited has a towing capacity of 9200 pounds.   I think that I will be OK with it.   I like the vehicle and I can get whole sheets of 4x8 plywood.   Thanks for your comments.   Now to get my wife on the same page.   She is still talking about an R-Pod and I am thinking Oliver LE2.

You should be fine with those specs. However, when ordering your unit you’ll probably want to avoid the front basket and go with the rear hitch carrier instead. Resist the urge to fill the back of your tow vehicle and instead pack it into the camper.

[John and Debbie]

1 hour ago, ChrisMI said:

You should be fine with those specs. However, when ordering your unit you’ll probably want to avoid the front basket and go with the rear hitch carrier instead. Resist the urge to fill the back of your tow vehicle and instead pack it into the camper.

Thanks for the advice.   I appreciate it very much. 

[John and Debbie]

7 hours ago, ScubaRx said:

Based on your supplied numbers, you have the capacity for 368 more pounds of cargo in your vehicle. Be careful, it won't take long to get there. I would not try to shift weight from the vehicle to the trailer since you're already so close to your max tow rating.

I looked at my vehicle specs more closely and it turns out that I have 9200 pounds of tow capacity. 

[rideandfly]

 

On 7/24/2021 at 7:10 PM, SeaDawg said:

There's at least one person here who has put his e2 on a diet, and kept his weight under 5000 lbs. Tows in the Appalachian mountains with a small truck. 

Maybe he'll chime in.

 

We have been towing our LE2 @ 4950 pound ready to camp with less than 500 pound tongue weight with a new mid-sized pickup in the Appalachian mountains, heading to a 5000' elevation campground next. Tested on up to 8% grades so far. Will reveal results later and vehicle when finished testing, unless seen by someone here in a TN/NC mountain campground first.

3 hours ago, John Welte said:

I looked at my vehicle specs more closely and it turns out that I have 9200 pounds of tow capacity. 

Our 2016 Tundra was rated for 9800 pounds tow capacity and did fine towing our LE2. Added airbags to the rear differential to reduce rear sag. Everyone tows differently, but when we're in the mountains, get in the slow lane with the big trucks going up and down grades. We keep Ollie light and our TV under gross weight with Ollie connected.

[John E Davies]

9200 is plenty, just pack more of your stuff in the trailer, keeping in mind that your tongue weight goes up proportionally (about 10%). NOT buying the tongue tray helps in this regard, keep the TW as low as practical. You still may run out of cargo load capacity in the Ford, but the towing number is fine. Try it for a season, then decide if it is going to be good long term TV.

FYI if you don’t need all that extra seating, remove the third and possibly second row seats and store them. Together that might give you another 150 pounds of cargo load. Plus more actual space…. Install a cargo barrier and be safe. These are most excellent. They weigh nothing and can be rolled down and stored on the floor when not needed.

https://raingler.com/collections/ford-expedition/products/1997-2017-ford-expedition-behind-front-seats-barrier-divider-net

John Davies

Spokane WA

 

 

[John and Debbie]

1 hour ago, rideandfly said:

 

We have been towing our LE2 @ 4950 pound ready to camp with less than 500 pound tongue weight with a new mid-sized pickup in the Appalachian mountains, heading to a 5000' elevation campground next. Tested on up to 8% grades so far. Will reveal results later and vehicle when finished testing, unless seen by someone here in a TN/NC mountain campground first.

Our 2016 Tundra was rated for 9800 pounds tow capacity and did fine towing our LE2. Added airbags to the rear differential to reduce rear sag. Everyone tows differently, but when we're in the mountains, get in the slow lane with the big trucks going up and down grades. We keep Ollie light and our TV under gross weight with Ollie connected.

There's an option for a weight distribution hitch.   Anderson I think.   That seems to be a good idea.   What are your thoughts on that option? 

[John E Davies]

4 minutes ago, John Welte said:

There's an option for a weight distribution hitch.   Anderson I think.   That seems to be a good idea.   What are your thoughts on that option? 

Depends…… 

Most likely it would be required due to the TW and also to minimize passenger discomfort on bumpy roads. I would order it, for sure. There are countless Andersen hitch threads, search and do some reading. It is the only WD hitch approved by Oliver.

https://www.ford.com/cmslibs/content/dam/brand_ford/en_us/brand/resources/general/pdf/brochures/17RV&TT_Ford_Expedition_Sep7.pdf

John Davies

Spokane WA