Battery Box Support Bolts Missing

[Ralph Mawyer]

 

 

A bit of serendipity as I was troubleshooting the loss of all power.  That turned out to be an outlet that probably went down during our recent lightning storm.

Anyway, while checking circuit breakers, fuses and the inverter GVCI switch I found two lonesome bolts that have been waiting for someone to finish drilling two holes in the aluminum support beam under the the pantry shelf.  It looks like it supports that fiberglass component.  No movement and seems very sturdy, so trying to decide whether to finish the job.  Wonder if there are two nuts on the other side? 😉

Actually looking at the photos now, it looks like there was a washer on the aluminum, which now makes me think they backed out and I need to figure out hard to push up and see if I have holes on the other bracket...something for tomorrow. I know that fiberglass wasn't moving when I checked...

[mossemi]

Yep, there should bolts in those holes, the vertical angle supports the battery box.  And your right about nuts and washers being MIA.  If you can see through any of the holes, you might try a drift pin to line up one set of holes and get a bolt into the other set.

Mossey

[John E Davies]

My trailer had only one bolt installed, I added a second one in the empty holes. Yes, it supports the battery floor, they definitely need to be in there, and tight…. .Look around with a mirror and flashlight or stick your phone in there  and take some pics, make sure the floor is not settled or cracked around its perimeter. The floor is a piece of 1/8” diamond plate aluminum, with 1/8” fiberglass at the top and bottom. 

Open a support ticket, Oliver Service needs to be notified. Yours is probably not the only one with improper assembly 😳

John Davies

Spokane WA

[Ralph Mawyer]

This is the bottom of the battery box without the aluminum support bracket connected. 
 

The box is firm, with no movement apparent or possible, nor with any apparent cracking of fiberglass in the battery box or in the interior, that I can tell. 

It looks like it was glassed in place and is resting on the wheel well, with some compression of the insulation after bolts fell out  

Can someone with a 2020 or 2021 take a look at there’s and see whether there is normally space between there?

Opening ticket with Oliver, but given the lack of flex in the box, I’m thinking best recourse may be to just drill new holes through the ones I can see and secure as-is.   Assuming I can get drill in there.

Haven’t gotten a photo, but I can feel a lower hole and upper oblong hole on the floor bracket, but no play to get a pin or punch through both  

[John E Davies]

This is my 2017 Hull 218, looking forward toward the dinette, the wheel well is on the left. There is a significant gap there. OTH there is no insulation on the bottom of the tray as in your pic, so maybe that is deceptive. You can easily see the diamond texture of the inner plate.

l

On mine, that top bolt was in place and tight, but the bottom one was missing (the holes were drilled and lined up). I am guessing that your tray has settled down. Your support is not good news:

I think Oliver needs to get involved in this, to make sure there are no other related issues. What batteries do you have? If they are the AGMs, there is about 300 pounds of dead weight there, that load really really needs to go straight down to the frame main structural member, not rest on other fiberglass parts! Imagine the severe intermittent stresses when you hit a freeway dip or big pothole....those are big G loads!

Good luck, open a service ticket ASAP, keep us informed please.

John Davies

Spokane WA

[Ralph Mawyer]

Lead Acid.  Ticket filed. 

[Ralph Mawyer]

With some cross-bracing on the 'floor' of the interior wall where the mount is and judicious use of a small hydraulic jack against the aluminum mounting plate upper base(with wood between), I was able to inch the mount up so the holes matched, maybe 1/2".  Not real thrilled thinking about fiberglass moving, but figured I got it back where it was from the factory.

It was obvious the screws had loosened over time and bounced around in the holes before falling out. Guess I've got two nuts and four washers floating around in hull somewhere. The bolts were nice enough to drop right in a crevice by the support.

I ended up installing zinc-coated bolts, with smooth portion going through the braces, in there for now, since I had them. That and double washers.

 John, worth getting stainless bolts with nylon locknuts?

I have a hard time believing they were tight from the factory given the minimal highway miles on the trailer. 5000 miles on the trailer, but no idea when they fell out.

I have no idea why they don't use nylon locknuts in places like that.  Critical bolt and hard to get too....

Will see what Jason says this week, before I close it all up.

 

This is the second time troubleshooting one small problem and discovering serious structural QC issues under the fiberglass.  All fixed reasonably easily, but would have been serious if left undiscovered.  

[topgun2]

Ralph - 

Glad you found and fixed the problem but sad that it happened in the first place. 

Keep a close eye on that fiberglass (particularly the gelcoat in that it is more brittle than the glass itself) over the next 1,000 miles or so.

Bill

[Ralph Mawyer]

1 minute ago, topgun2 said:

Ralph - 

Glad you found and fixed the problem but sad that it happened in the first place. 

Keep a close eye on that fiberglass (particularly the gelcoat in that it is more brittle than the glass itself) over the next 1,000 miles or so.

Bill

Agree, really meant gelcoat. My guess is there is enough flex across the wall where the battery box is fitted to mitigate it or I would have seen damage from the unbolted condition.  Looks good now...

[John E Davies]

Well, I am glad you resolved it, but OTH I am a little horrified at the idea of a hydraulic jack. If the parts had exploded with a mighty crash, any and repair all costs would  rest entirely on your shoulders.  I think you should have waited for Jason to comment before bringing in the heavy artillery.

Please post his response. This is getting more and more interesting. 

I would put stainless bolts there, but that is up to you. 

John Davies 

Spokane WA
 

 

[Frank C]

Sorry to see you had this problem, but thank you for highlighting the issue so the rest of us know to check this.  Because of your post, I just looked at my supports and thankfully the bolts, washers and nuts are there and tight, but it’s still one of those things that I normally would have never inspected.  

[Ralph Mawyer]

2 hours ago, John E Davies said:

Well, I am glad you resolved it, but OTH I am a little horrified at the idea of a hydraulic jack. If the parts had exploded with a mighty crash, any and repair all costs would  rest entirely on your shoulders.  I think you should have waited for Jason to comment before bringing in the heavy artillery.

Please post his response. This is getting more and more interesting. 

I would put stainless bolts there, but that is up to you. 

John Davies 

Spokane WA
 

 

Little 2-ton bottle jack that would fit, and slowly inch up. Wasn’t that dramatic, but not easiest space to work around and not stress other stuff. 

[Hokieman]

Thanks very much for bring up this issue Ralph.  It prompted me to check my support and sure enough, both bolts were in place, but nuts were loose, I could easily undo them by hand.   I turned in a service ticket, and also included a link to this thread.  I’m going to replace the nuts with nylon locknuts.   Ive got just under 5000 miles on my 2021 trailer. 

[Ralph Mawyer]

Seems like everybody should check. Rare, but if it happens…

From Service…

 “did get a response from engineering that a flange bolt is used on that connection. I would prefer a nylon lock nut, a lock washer & nut, or the double nut method myself. I will be reviewing this with engineering further.”

 

[Ralph Mawyer]

Just to put some closure on this.  Service and I agreed that it was likely an installation failure.  It looks like someone put down the two bolts in a crevice near the support beam and didn't return to finish the job. I never found nuts and washers and the bolts were unlikely to fall, together, into the space I found them in.

Still worth checking yours, but I would not expect this to be a common issue, though it has occurred else-when, as noted above.

[Fritz]

1 hour ago, Ralph Mawyer said:

Still worth checking yours, but I would not expect this to be a common issue, though it has occurred else-when, as noted above.

The nuts from my battery support post bolts were also off -- I found them down below....

[Ralph Mawyer]

If you had this happen, I’d be sure a file a support ticket, just to give the guys some data points on when this occurred. 

[Hokieman]

After I turned in my service ticket on 797, Jason got back to me with a next day response, referred it to Engineering.   They attributed the problem to an installation error.  He said he had been checking other trailers in for service, had not found any loose.  The only other similar problem he knew about was from Ralph, Hull 625.   Just a reminder I also had 2 loose doghouse bolts, details in a previous post.

[Fritz]

 

3 hours ago, Ralph Mawyer said:

If you had this happen, I’d be sure a file a support ticket, just to give the guys some data points on when this occurred. 

Thanks.  I filed a ticket on October 5.  I received this response: "Battery Box Support - I am turning this in to our Quality & Engineering team. Production uses a flange nut at this connection but I believe a Nylon Lock nut, Lock Washer & Nut or even a double nut would be better. We can have some nuts shipped to you but hopefully I will hear back from engineering to see what they say as far as any recommendations for the type of nut used."

Haven't heard more on this yet.  In the meantime, I put the flange nuts back on temporarily but will replace them with nylon lock nuts. 

[Rivernerd]

As a future owner whose Elite II build is months away, I have added "inspect battery box support bolts--nylock nuts?" to my growing list of items to double-check when taking delivery.  I hope Oliver staff monitor this thread, and take steps to further improve their quality control before mine comes up......

But, I commend Oliver for the transparency of this forum.  As a retired lawyer, I have been persuaded by the content on this forum that, like the American legal system, Oliver's imperfect production quality and customer service are the "worst in the world, except for all the rest."  We remain committed to complete the purchase of our Ollie.

[SeaDawg]

34 minutes ago, Rivernerd said:

But, I commend Oliver for the transparency of this forum.  As a retired lawyer, I have been persuaded by the content on this forum that, like the American legal system, Oliver's imperfect production quality and customer service are the "worst in the world, except for all the rest."  We remain committed to complete the purchase of our Ollie.

Oliver pays for our forum,  but never moderates or interferes. They also don't follow it closely,  so we always advise users to open a service ticket, even if the user fixed it him/herself.

I hope you enjoy your Oliver as much as we have for the last 14 seasons. Perfect? No. Pretty close? Yes. 

We have a lot of techie and engineering people here, probably because of the engineering quality of the Oliver. (Yes, that includes us. My husband is a retired engineer.) Therefore,  you'll find early reports of issues others may have never discovered,  or discovered far later,  here. That's a good thing, imo. It's a good thing for Oliver, too, when we let them know through proper channels.

[Mcb]

I guess I’m joining the club…I’m gonna need a big ol’ washer to make it work with that mess of a hole somebody made… 

 

[John E Davies]

20 hours ago, Mcb said:

I guess I’m joining the club…I’m gonna need a big ol’ washer to make it work with that mess of a hole somebody made… 

 

That is ugly, just drill a brand new hole above it and use regular hardware. And open a Service Ticket. One of my bolts was missing, but the holes were not wasted like that. Yikes.

Edit: If the holes are grossly oversized, there may be nothing but the clamping force of the nuts and some friction holding up the batteries. If they are a precise fit, they are orders of magnitude stronger because the parts are supporting in shear, meaning the bolt or hole would have to fail. With oversized holes, the parts can simply slide down further. Aircraft are assembled with rivets in snug fitting holes, when one is “bucked” with an air tool, the shank swells to fully fill the hole. It is extremely strong, you cannot duplicate that in this case, but you can easily drill precise holes that are no more than a few thousandths of an inch bigger than the bolts. That will be plenty strong.

John Davies

Spokane WA

[Ralph Mawyer]

Only upside is at least you had two bolts and one is still there, so doesn't look like it dropped on to the Wheel Well.  I'm pretty sure, the installer put my bolts down and never came back to finish the job...just glad I found it.

[Jim and Chris Neuman]

You can find hardened bolts that are toughter than over the shelf stainless (usually 18-8) but in this instance stainless will be plenty strong and will not corrode.  Stainless does have the nasty habit of galling if the alloy of the nut and bolt are similar or identical and can sieze up to the point where the nut cannot be backed off without shearing the bolt.  This has become particularly problematical with the imports which are flooding the market in recent years.  In installing a new hydraulic ram on my boats autopilot, I recently had some 3/8" stainless bolts / nylock nut combo which siezed up simply threading the nut onto the bolt under no load whatsoever.  Taking a moment to smear the threads with lanolin anti sieze solved the problem and will aid in backing off the fasteners in the future should it become necessary.  Lanolin is your friend when using bolts to fasten dissimilar metals, particularly in a corrosive environment like around saltwater or in high humidity areas.  The brand I use is Lanocote which is readily available in marine supply stores,  A 4 oz. plastic jar lasts a very long time.  I am sure there are other brands every bit as effective.