Winterization Question

[Fritz]

I feel like I'm missing something obvious, but where is the drain valve for the fresh water tank on the 2021 LE2?  The drain location is not shown in Oliver's winterization video.  Or is the way to empty the tank simply to pump it (mostly) dry?

[Mike and Carol]

It is under the curb side bed under the furnace ducting.  Probably 1/3 the distance from the kitchen to the back of the trailer.  Mike

[Fritz]

Ah, thank you.  I see that this valve won't be able to drain all of the tank, because is connected to a discharge port about 3/4 inch from the bottom of the tank.  But I guess that's OK...

[rideandfly]

3 hours ago, Fritz said:

Ah, thank you.  I see that this valve won't be able to drain all of the tank, because is connected to a discharge port about 3/4 inch from the bottom of the tank.  But I guess that's OK...

Just winterized Ollie today. When I pumped RV antifreeze in the fresh water tank inlet, lifted Ollie's nose high to drain the fresh water tank. Also found the fresh water tank drain pipe on the bottom of the trailer floor in my Ollie will not drain well unless I pull the pipe down lightly when below Ollie and clamp with a hose clamp where the pipe come out of the hull to let the drain on the inside of Ollie sit flat on the floor. Before there was about a 1/2" gap between the pipe & floor not letting some of the contents drain out.

[Fritz]

And....  just to be clear, our trailer has a composting toilet and therefore does not use the black water tank.  It does not appear to have a black-water flush valve under the front dinette seat.  I assume (but can't seem to verify by looking) that there is no way that fresh water could enter this portion of the water system, and that therefore there is no need to winterize this part of the system.  Is that correct? Or...?

[Geronimo John]

Fritz:  

Here is the EXACT location of that drain.  Look just to the right of the foot prints and towards the wheel well a bit.

GJ

[Fritz]

Thanks – that helps me see where some of the other plumbing goes as well. I was not able to get water to come out of the drain after opening it, but that is probably because I pumped most of the water out of the tank with the pump. I will try tomorrow to add a little suction to the drain port just to make sure that I’m getting fluid (in this case, maybe a little bit of  antifreeze) to come out of the drain.

[Geronimo John]

I have an easier approach I think.

For three years, I just gravity drained the tank.  Doing so left a bit of water in the tank.  It worked fine for three winters where we say temperatures down to -10 degrees F, and all was fine.  But I too worried about the valve and drain line at those ultra low temp's.

So this year I added a few steps just for the fresh water tank and it's valve and drain line:

• During the first steps of winterizing, you end up bleeding the faucets and showers.  Towards the end of each, you get pink water, and then almost pure antifreeze.  I harvest this almost all antifreeze for a second pass to the main tank.
• I lowered the full weight of the Ollie on the tires (Sucked in the rear jacks), then put about a foot of blocks under the front jack, I raised the tongue all the way up by the electric jack and gravity drained the fresh water tank from the tank.  I then pump into the city water port the almost pure antifreeze from the fauctets and shower.  I do this with the valve open. 
• When it stops draining pinkish water, I close the drain valve and  pump in via the city water port about a quart of pure RV antifreeze directly into the tank. 
• I lower the front jack to the blocks to move around the antifreeze in the tank.  Then I raised the front again.  I then slightly opened the tank valve let some of this almost pure antifreeze into the valve and drain line.
• I close the valve and keep the rest of the almost pure antifreeze in the tank for the winter.

BINGO!  No worries.  Overkill?  Yea probably but I sleep well.  Good luck.

[topgun2]

10 hours ago, Geronimo John said:

Overkill?  Yea probably but I sleep well.  Good luck.

Since the fresh water tank is comparatively large and there is relatively little water in there (assuming that it has been mostly drained), there is nothing to fear from the remaining water in that tank freezing.  Remember, it is the expansion of freezing water that causes the issues.  If there is nothing for this expanding freezing water to "expand" against then there is no harm.

Certainly there is nothing wrong with what GJ is doing - assuming that the fresh tank is thoroughly flushed prior to its next use (which should be done regardless when the tank is sanitized).  But, it is extra work.

Bill

[Fritz]

Thanks, all, for your help.  And one more question for complete peace of mind....  

Our trailer has a composting toilet (and therefore an unused black water tank).   There are water lines under the front dinette seat, but no flush valve under the front dinette seat (as is mentioned in the winterization video).  I assume (but can't seem to verify by looking) that these lines are not connected to the primary water system, and consequently there is no way that fresh water can enter this portion of the water system without actually using the blackwater tank flush port on the streetside front of the trailer (for which there has obviously been no need because of the composting toilet).  Therefore there is no need to winterize this part of the system -- is that correct? Or...?

[John E Davies]

51 minutes ago, Fritz said:

Our trailer has a composting toilet (and therefore an unused black water tank).   There are water lines under the front dinette seat, but no flush valve under the front dinette seat (as is mentioned in the winterization video).  I assume (but can't seem to verify by looking) that these lines are not connected to the primary water system, and consequently there is no way that fresh water can enter this portion of the water system without actually using the blackwater tank flush port on the streetside front of the trailer (for which there has obviously been no need because of the composting toilet).  Therefore there is no need to winterize this part of the system -- is that correct? Or...?

The large black tank flush line is unused and not connected to any other parts of the system, you can remove the line completely from inside at the tank and CAP the lower fitting, where it enters from outside the hull, so some idiot, or senior moment, cannot accidentally hook up a garden hose and flood the interior. 

The small line behind the toilet base with the 1/4" chrome ball vale IS hooked up to the fresh system, and you need to flush that out. Put a paper cup over the outlet or you will get a face full - the water or antifreeze comes out like a geyser. If you ever happen to open up the vanity, you could disconnect the line there and cap the tee fitting.

John Davies

Spokane WA

[Geronimo John]

13 hours ago, topgun2 said:

Since the fresh water tank is comparatively large and there is relatively little water in there (assuming that it has been mostly drained), there is nothing to fear from the remaining water in that tank freezing.  Remember, it is the expansion of freezing water that causes the issues.  If there is nothing for this expanding freezing water to "expand" against then there is no harm.

Certainly there is nothing wrong with what GJ is doing - assuming that the fresh tank is thoroughly flushed prior to its next use (which should be done regardless when the tank is sanitized).  But, it is extra work.

Bill

Bill:  My goal is to protect the lines to and the valve at the exit of the tank.  Not the tank itself.  For the tank, you are of course spot on.

Since the valve is elevated slightly from the tank, is there some potential for it to be cracked with freezing water?  However, if you are saying this has never happened... then I'll change my procedure. 

On the other hand, I figure what the heck.... if I have some anti-freeze harvested during the winterizing process, may as well put it to some good use somewhere. 

Please do advise.  Thanks GJ  

[topgun2]

20 hours ago, Geronimo John said:

Since the valve is elevated slightly from the tank, is there some potential for it to be cracked with freezing water?

I'm not sure if that slight elevation was done on purpose, but, any water that would be in or near that valve should simply drain back to the lowest point.  Thus, there would be no water there to cause an issue in freezing weather.  Having said this - there is always "some potential" for virtually anything to happen.  I've just never heard of it.

Bill

[Pat Maundrell]

BTW, I've heard rumors that there maybe a RV Anti Freeze shortage this year. To be on the safe side I got 4 gals.

[Frank C]

1 hour ago, Pat Maundrell said:

BTW, I've heard rumors that there maybe a RV Anti Freeze shortage this year. To be on the safe side I got 4 gals.

Same rumor was floating around last year because of some people connecting it to the hand sanitizer demand during the pandemic.  But there never was any actual shortage of RV antifreeze.  Different chemicals are used for hand sanitizer.  Local Walmarts and auto stores here all have plenty of RV antifreeze on the shelves right now.  And 3 to 4 gallons is about what is needed for winterizing.  I always end up using about 4 gallons or so by the time I winterize every part of the Ollie water system.  

[LongStride]

Picked up four gallons at Menards yesterday.  They had plenty in two different flavors.  

[Mountainman198]

On 10/12/2021 at 12:46 PM, John E Davies said:

The small line behind the toilet base with the 1/4" chrome ball vale IS hooked up to the fresh system, and you need to flush that out. Put a paper cup over the outlet or you will get a face full - the water or antifreeze comes out like a geyser. If you ever happen to open up the vanity, you could disconnect the line there and cap the tee fitting.

 

[Mountainman198]

Just finished Winterizing and have the composting toilet. Fearing the geyser of water then pink stuff all over the bathroom and myself when purging the small toilet line, I went to Ace and bought a sink line ($10) and cut the top from one of the empty antifreeze bottles. Worked fine for mess-free winterization of the toilet line behind the Natures Head. Maybe three drops of pink stuff to wipe-up.