State of Charge on Lithionics Batteries

[Jps190]

Does anyone with the 3 130AH Lithionics batteries ever see a different SOC between their batteries. I have one battery that always seems to be different than the other 2 even though it is showing similar voltage.

[John E Davies]

I can’t comment on that brand, but the Battle Borns need to be fully charged to 100% so that the individual batteries can balance with each other - current flows from one to the other until their state of charge matches. I suspect that is true for yours, have you taken them all the way to 100% to see what they show after a day’s rest? Again, the following info is NOT for Lithionics, but they may be a very similar recommendation:

“As for balancing the lithium-ion batteries, we typically expect them to be charged up to 14.4V as that’s when the passive balancing mechanism kicks in. If you’re floating at 13.6V, there’s no balancing happening and you’re not going to balance the cells until you charge it up to around 14.4V, or at least 14.2V. This won’t be required if you’ve got a solar charge controller or if you have a battery-to-battery charger for alternator charging. These devices can accommodate 14.4V on every charge, so you don’t need to worry about it.  

If you don’t typically charge at up to 14.4V your cells may get a bit out of balance because of temperature extremes or larger loads. To rebalance your system, we recommend being able to charge it up to 14.4V once a month or even once a week. Please note that it depends on your system usage. You may not notice anything, but if the batteries are hitting high voltage disconnect sooner than you’d expect, for example at 14V, or if they’re hitting low voltage disconnect sooner than you’d expect, such as at 11.5V , then you may want to think about rebalancing the battery cells internally and all you must do is charge it up to 14.4V in order to rebalance the cells. “

https://battlebornbatteries.com/understanding-lithium-ion-getting-started-with-your-battle-born-batteries/

John Davies

Spokane WA

[LCTraveler]

Greetings from Washington state.

I have the 3 130ah batteries in our Oliver and I have seen pretty much the same thing you have on the phone app. The fact that the voltages are the same tells me your batteries are fine. 

lithionics has admitted that the percentages shown are not always as accurate as we would like. A few things they recommended I do has helped the app SOC to be more accurate though.

I updated to the latest firmware for the BMS. This can be done in settings on the app. Make sure your phone has good Wi-Fi connection when you do this because the battery bms needs to go out on the lithionics site and get the correct firmware. 
Next I drew my batteries down until they shut themselves off. This is called the reserve voltage cut off. Then I charged my batteries to 100% or 14.2 volts. 
This seems to have helped make the % state of charge numbers more accurate.

Hope  this helps,

Mike

 

[Jps190]

Thanks guys.  I really haven't "used" the batteries very much yet.  I'll go ahead and run them down to RVC and the give them a full charge to see what happens.

 

John

[rich.dev]

I have the 2 x 320ah batteries in our 2023 Oliver and have seen the same thing you have on the phone app.

I read following on the Lihtionics website:

The SoC is a ‘metered reading’ from an electronic Hall Effect Shunt and is a count-down meter that is most accurate on its first cycle after calibration* but becomes less accurate over time. It simply counts amps-in and amps-out but some losses will occur. Being a metered value, it does not actually measure state of charge “real time” but instead “calculates” or estimates state of charge.
-Explanation: *every two weeks, a full charge cycle in which the battery reaches 14.4 volts is required to trigger a recalibration of the internal Hall Effect Sensor shunt. When the battery exceeds 14.2 volts during charging, the SoC re-sets to 100%. (In order to fully charge a lithium ion battery, the DC loads may need to be reduced so the charge current exceeds the discharge current to allow a full battery charge.)
-Why does the meter “drift” and lose accuracy over time? When a consumer is micro-cycling a battery via a series of multiple discharge cycles and has partial charge cycles from solar or alternator charging, the SoC meter loses accuracy, called “sensor drift” over a two week time period. This is also called ‘short charging’ as the battery never fills and the SoC meter does not reach recalibration voltages of 14.2(12 Volt Battery, 28.4 (24V), 53.25 (48.0) or 56.8 (51V) batteries respectively.

I think what @LCTraveler said, as long as the voltages are the same your batteries are fine. 

[John Dorrer]

We store inside. We don't turn the solar off and I have seen that on ours. I spoke to Mike and he said with the solar on and no solar the draw can be different. The next time I turned the solar off they were even or one was 1% different. 

[Apreski]

I am preparing my  2X 320 AH lithiums for winter storage...5 months in a unheated warehouse with <32 degree nights. The Lithionics website requires removal of the batteries at 50% SOC....for home storage. According to Mike at Oliver, I will need to recharge them to 100% BEFORE the spring install, requiring a separate lithium charger. 

Why is it not possible to utilize the trailer system to recharge to 100%. I fail to understand the logic.

Assuming the need to purchase a separate charger...any suggestions.

Thx Steve

[Steph and Dud B]

1 hour ago, Apreski said:

The Lithionics website requires removal of the batteries at 50% SOC....for home storage.

According to my Lithionics manual for the 320 Ah batteries you can also leave the batteries connected to a reliable shoreline connection for the winter (they recommend leaving the solar on, too). The batteries' internal heaters will protect them from the cold while the shoreline connection/solar keeps the heaters from discharging the batteries.

[Dave and Kimberly]

   I can attest to the difference (almost always) between the batteries, usually just 4 ~5%.    I am certain that what JD says on the balancing out is the culprit.   I've actually been letting my batteries get down to the RSV.... just so that I can "reset" the SOC.  Most of us in the normal course of usage are simply doing the micro-charging mentioned above.... and likely experiencing some  sensor drift over time.    (FYI: we've spent 248 nights in ours and today is the first time I've actually let them run down like this to do the reset)

    Responding to Apreski... I do use the Oliver electrical system to re-charge.  Simply plug the Ollie into my garage 20amp outlet to recharge the my three 130AH batteries.

    I did not take the batteries out last winter (here in Ohio)... but I did make sure that the batteries stayed charged enough for the electric heater to keep things protected.

[Apreski]

Clarification: “unheated warehouse” meant to say no electrical outlets. Therefore, the internal heater system is not an option for a 5 month period at freezing temps. My previous lithium camper was left covered in my driveway with 110 power and an electric heater. Batteries were fine, except 500 inches of snow…roof damage. Therefore my new significant investment will be stored one hour west in a RV warehouse

I have had light usage of my Ollie due to water pressure issues over a 2 month period. Finally resolved. Only 30 nights …not performed a RSV reset yet. Will probably wait till spring.

I purchased a CAMCO. Double 15 amp converter to 30 Amp for my household power setup. No need to call an electrician. Works great.

I will store my batteries at home at 50% SOC. I will continue to research the need to recharge them at home before reinstalling them, per Mike’s instruction.  Again, I fail to see why the trailer Victron  system can’t be utilized to recharge . It has worked well all summer.

[Rivernerd]

1 hour ago, Apreski said:

Again, I fail to see why the trailer Victron  system can’t be utilized to recharge . It has worked well all summer.

Lithionics Storage Procedure Rev.7-1.pdf

Attached is the most recent Lithionics Storage Procedure memo. 

When reducing charge to 50% SOC, removing the batteries and storing them in a temperature-controlled environment (as recommended in that document), I see no mention of using an "external charger" to perform the discharge/recharge cycle after 6 months.

I would just reinstall the batteries next spring, run them down to the reserve charge level, and let the trailer's internal inverter/charger do the recharge for you.

[MAX Burner]

1 hour ago, Rivernerd said:

I would just reinstall the batteries next spring, run them down to the reserve charge level, and let the trailer's internal inverter/charger do the recharge for you.

Those lithiums should only lose about 3-5% SOC per month...  You should be fine.

[John Dorrer]

I had a good conversation with one of the technical support engineers at Lithonics. He told me to keep the trailer plugged in at our unheated storage place and turn on the battery warmer. Plugged in for 3-1/2+ months. Hull #1045, 2022, E-2, Lithium Pro Package, 3 Lithonics batteries.

[Apreski]

On 10/5/2023 at 11:28 AM, Rivernerd said:

Lithionics Storage Procedure Rev.7-1.pdf 143.35 kB · 3 downloads

Attached is the most recent Lithionics Storage Procedure memo. 

When reducing charge to 50% SOC, removing the batteries and storing them in a temperature-controlled environment (as recommended in that document), I see no mention of using an "external charger" to perform the discharge/recharge cycle after 6 months.

I would just reinstall the batteries next spring, run them down to the reserve charge level, and let the trailer's internal inverter/charger do the recharge for you.

 

[Apreski]

Just now, Apreski said:

 

Rivernerd, I have the the storage procedures, but Mike at Oliver said to recharge to 100% before reinstalling. I will follow the your advice to reduce to 50%…store a t house., etc. thanks

[Fritz]

In response to the initial question, you might also check that the terminal bolts are torqued to a uniform tightness.   I had  substantial SOC differences; re-torquing fixed this. None of the terminal bolts were loose (but some of them were not as tight as others)—I was surprised that the re-torquing made this much difference.