Water Leak Somewhere under the Kitchen Sink Area

[Imelda]

Hi all. Imelda again. In 2 weeks I leave for Utah. I decided to fire up the Oliver 2 I have and check everything out .I have a water leak that appears to be at or near the kitchen sink faucet. Bathroom and toilet are fine. I leave in N Texas and I didn't winterize since I wanted to have the option of travel over winter - which I never did. A couple of nights when it got into the teens I ran a Space heater in keep the temps up in the Oliver and prevent the pipes from freezing. The leak only happens when the kitchen faucet is on and it sounds to be underneath it and its a BIG water leak. Like maybe a coupling is loose or broken. Bathroom and toilet are fine- no leaks there. It leaks with either the pump on or the city line water hooked up. Are there videos on how I get the faucet out and check the connections or how do I get to that area under the sink? Pulling out the kitchen drawers?  

Now that I have thought about it it must be the faucet itself leaking and not the connections to it as it only leaks when I turn the faucet on. Any ideas on how to replace this faucet. I don't even know what brand it is. 

 

[Mike and Carol]

I replaced my faucet 3 or 4 years ago.  It’s just like a residential faucet, so there should be many YouTube instructional videos.  I replaced mine with a Delta bar faucet that could be pulled down with a sprayer.  Or, any plumber should be able to do a repair or replacement.  Mike

[Imelda]

Mike, I like the idea of a sprayer. Does it have to be an RV faucet or can any faucet work? 

[Townesw]

@ImeldaPress these latches under the drawer and lift up

 

Very likely this drain coupling has come apart. 

 

Or the blue clip that holds the sprayer hose to the faucet tube is missing and the hose has slipped off of the tube

You may have to remove this plywood panel to make the repair.

While you are in there make sure the refrigerator plug is plugged in well  

 

[John E Davies]

Speaking of refrigerator plug, since your plumbing has been leaking a lot, unplug shore power so that the outlet, which may be full of water, won’t zap you. I doubt if that location meets code, I was pretty amazed when I discovered this setup years ago. Normally you don’t put 120 volt AC electricity directly below plumbing connections. If it can’t go in a dry spot, it needs to be installed in a waterproof enclosure. Bill, I borrowed your pic…..

John Davies

Spokane WA

[AlbertNTerri]

boy oh boy, looking at all this makes me nervous, do I need to pull the drawers and check all those connections when I take delivery?

[Townesw]

We recently met a very nice couple with an Oliver at a campground. I was walking around their Oliver and we were talking about our trailers when I noticed water trickling down the curb side rear stabilizer. I asked if I could look under the curb side bunk and after looking for several minutes I could not find the source of the leak, but from where I was seeing the water running from underneath the insulation I suggested that he pull the drawers and take a look under the kitchen sink. We exchanged phone numbers and I left. With in just a few minutes of leaving their Oliver I received a text saying that he had done as I suggested and he had found his p-trap coupling loose and water from the drain dripping on top of the fender well under the kitchen sink. This leak made its way between the insulation and inside of the bottom hull to the opening where the rear stabilizer goes through the bottom hull. 

[Townesw]

12 hours ago, Imelda said:

Mike, I like the idea of a sprayer. Does it have to be an RV faucet or can any faucet work? 

@ImeldaYour profile shows you have a 2020 OEII. Are you sure that your faucet doesn’t already have a sprayer? Grab the end of the faucet head and pull it down. It is held in place with a magnet. The sprayer hose is inside the faucet neck. 

[Mike and Carol]

12 hours ago, Imelda said:

Mike, I like the idea of a sprayer. Does it have to be an RV faucet or can any faucet work? 

Yes, any faucet can work.  The original faucet on our Oliver had no sprayer.  Not sure when they started putting those in.  This is what I installed:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B012I44QG4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

It fits the same as the old one.  Has a pull down sprayer and looks original.  Mike

[Steph and Dud B]

9 hours ago, John E Davies said:

I was pretty amazed when I discovered this setup years ago.

You might even say you were "shocked" to discover that? 🙂

[Corvus]

8 hours ago, albert said:

boy oh boy, looking at all this makes me nervous, do I need to pull the drawers and check all those connections when I take delivery?

I highly recommend that everyone pull drawers and check this area early and add it to your routine check list. I discovered ours had started leaking at the latest four months after taking possession and suspect it was leaking on delivery day. The source of this leak was the faucet where the water lines screw into the the base at the handle. I replaced it with a household Dura faucet.

Edited March 18, 2022 by Corvus

[Imelda]

All, I did get the drawers out under the sink and I did find the leak (see attached pdf) and I saw like the picture above accept the black water line had disconnected from it counter part under the sink. It must have been leaking for some time so yes this area should be checked frequently for water damage.  

So now, can I connect up the black water line again by just pushing it together with its counter part and it looks the plywood will have to be replaced? Any suggestions on how to go about that? 

Under the sink water leak.pdf

[John E Davies]

Replace the warped, delaminated, blackened wood, that is mold! You don’t want to keep that inside your trailer. I can’t tell you how to remove that entire cabinet, but that is what I would do. If you can’t do the woodwork repair yourself, find a woodworker shop to do it correctly.

You must use the blue plastic clip to hold those two sprayer hose parts together, did you find that, and is it broken? It won’t stay together without that clip. You should also put a new oring on that upper part, the old one could be damaged.

Now it’s time to look under my sink…..😳

John Davies

Spokane WA

[Corvus]

This is a major implementation flaw. Instead of the water running down to the basement and out the scuppers, where it may be detected, it flows down the retractable water line to pool in the bottom of the wood cabinet then rot and fester. The stench from mine was unbearable, lots of ammonia. Ruined a lot of things in the drawers by nurturing rampant mold colonies and shortened the life of the drawers. If the  weight is pushed behind the cabinet the weight will not work properly, bangs into, and has the potential to drip water into the 120v receptacle. Now the very few pieces of wood in the trailer are compromised by this inability to understand basic physics combined with using substandard parts.

The only support from Oliver for this was what faucet was used in our trailer.

[John E Davies]

I would like to point out one important factor! If you normally use the city water connection, the leak under the sink could go on for a very long time before it was discovered. OTH, If you normally use the 12 volt water pump, it would immediately be obvious that the system was not holding pressure, because the pump would cycle rapidly. I have never looked under my sink (though I plan to ASAP) but I know that the pressure hoses are OK, but there still could be leakage from the sink drain and trap. 

This should probably be added to your annual maintenance checklist. I am going to investigate, and think about installing a stainless drip tray with a drain hose going out the bottom of the cabinet.

John Davies

Spokane WA

[Rivernerd]

1 hour ago, Imelda said:

So now, can I connect up the black water line again by just pushing it together with its counter part and it looks the plywood will have to be replaced? Any suggestions on how to go about that? 

The photos tell the story; thanks for those.

The "black water line" you reference connects the two parts of the hose that supply water to the pull-out part of the faucet.  The two parts are designed to "click" together and be water tight, held together by a clip that is usually blue.  Can you find the clip?

If so,  I recommend you try pushing the two parts together, then secure them with the clip.  If you hear a (very satisfying) click, and the clip seems secure, then run water through the faucet and into the sink, then verify there is no leak at that joint.  If it doesn't leak, I'd leave the drawers out for a couple of days to let it dry out, aided by a fan, then test each day to be sure there is no further leakage.

If it leaks, or if the clip is AWOL, I would replace the faucet with any standard faucet from Home Depot or Lowes.

Replacing the plywood is a major project.   I don't yet own an Oliver, so I don't know what supports the plywood in that area, and therefore what would be required to cut the water-damaged wood back to a "joist" that could support a replacement piece.  I hope someone with an Oliver can chime in here. 

But, proper replacement of the plywood might require removal of the entire cabinet under the sink, including drawer glides, etc., cutting out the rotted part, then patching in a new piece, replacing the cabinet, etc.  Uggghh.

Before committing to that route, I would allow the area to thoroughly dry for several days, aided by a small fan.  I would then scrub down the entire damaged area with a 10/1 water/bleach solution (90% water, 10% bleach) and let it dry aided by a fan.  I would then scrub it a second time with the water bleach solution, rinse it with clean water, then let it dry again, with a fan.  If done thoroughly, that should kill the mold and mildew. 

I would then apply 2 coats of a mold and mildew-killing primer.  Kilz and Zinsser are common brands.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/KILZ-Mold-and-Mildew-1-qt-White-Water-Based-Interior-and-Exterior-Primer-Sealer-and-Stain-Blocker-L204604/308880646?source=shoppingads&locale=en-US&pla&mtc=Shopping-BF-F_D24-G-D24-024_022_PRIMERS-Multi-NA-NA-LIA-NA-NA-FY21_Multi_LIA&cm_mmc=Shopping-BF-F_D24-G-D24-024_022_PRIMERS-Multi-NA-NA-LIA-NA-NA-FY21_Multi_LIA-71700000075826637-58700006498654198-92700058683659541&gclid=Cj0KCQjw29CRBhCUARIsAOboZbKRQh3-hFhcRWkMTa0atxXTbXPq-07ksX-WbroktVhk_ID8pcc3WMoaAqekEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

After the paint is dry, I would cut and screw a piece of 1/4" hardboard (a/k/a Masonite) over the top of the entire accessible part of the water-damaged, but now treated and primed, plywood.  If 1/4" interferes with the bottom drawer glide, try a piece of 1/8" hardboard instead.

Out of an abundance of caution, I would then prime and paint the entire affected area, including the new hardboard, with two coats of a shellac-based primer.   Below is a link to one option:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Zinsser-1-qt-B-I-N-Shellac-Based-White-Interior-Primer-and-Sealer-00904/100398380?source=shoppingads&locale=en-US&pla&mtc=Shopping-BF-F_D24-G-D24-024_022_PRIMERS-Multi-NA-NA-LIA-NA-NA-FY21_Multi_LIA&cm_mmc=Shopping-BF-F_D24-G-D24-024_022_PRIMERS-Multi-NA-NA-LIA-NA-NA-FY21_Multi_LIA-71700000075826637-58700006498654198-92700058683659541&gclid=EAIaIQobChMInKuf5ZzR9gIVeh6tBh3-CAT8EAQYAyABEgKNZfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

The shellac-based primer will help prevent mold, mildew and dry rot should you have another leak.  It will also add another sealing layer, and leave the finished assembly almost as good as the original.

It is lots of work, and will require many days of dry and wait time.  But if it were my trailer, I would choose that route over tearing out and rebuilding the floor under the galley.  So much more can go wrong with that kind of rebuild.....

Good luck!

[Jps190]

6 minutes ago, Rivernerd said:

The photos tell the story; thanks for those.

The "black water line" you reference connects the two parts of the hose that supply water to the pull-out part of the faucet.  The two parts are designed to "click" together and be water tight, held together by a clip that is usually blue.  Can you find the clip?

If so,  I recommend you try pushing the two parts together, then secure them with the clip.  If you hear a (very satisfying) click, and the clip seems secure, then run water through the faucet and into the sink, then verify there is no leak at that joint.  If it doesn't leak, I'd leave the drawers out for a couple of days to let it dry out, aided by a fan, then test each day to be sure there is no further leakage.

If it leaks, or if the clip is AWOL, I would replace the faucet with any standard faucet from Home Depot or Lowes.

Replacing the plywood is a major project.   I don't yet own an Oliver, so I don't know what supports the plywood in that area, and therefore what would be required to cut the water-damaged wood back to a "joist" that could support a replacement piece.  I hope someone with an Oliver can chime in here. 

But, proper replacement of the plywood might require removal of the entire cabinet under the sink, including drawer glides, etc., cutting out the rotted part, then patching in a new piece, replacing the cabinet, etc.  Uggghh.

Before committing to that route, I would allow the area to thoroughly dry for several days, aided by a small fan.  I would then scrub down the entire damaged area with a 10/1 water/bleach solution (90% water, 10% bleach) and let it dry aided by a fan.  I would then scrub it a second time with the water bleach solution, rinse it with clean water, then let it dry again, with a fan.  If done thoroughly, that should kill the mold and mildew. 

I would then apply 2 coats of a mold and mildew-killing primer.  Kilz and Zinsser are common brands.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/KILZ-Mold-and-Mildew-1-qt-White-Water-Based-Interior-and-Exterior-Primer-Sealer-and-Stain-Blocker-L204604/308880646?source=shoppingads&locale=en-US&pla&mtc=Shopping-BF-F_D24-G-D24-024_022_PRIMERS-Multi-NA-NA-LIA-NA-NA-FY21_Multi_LIA&cm_mmc=Shopping-BF-F_D24-G-D24-024_022_PRIMERS-Multi-NA-NA-LIA-NA-NA-FY21_Multi_LIA-71700000075826637-58700006498654198-92700058683659541&gclid=Cj0KCQjw29CRBhCUARIsAOboZbKRQh3-hFhcRWkMTa0atxXTbXPq-07ksX-WbroktVhk_ID8pcc3WMoaAqekEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

After the paint is dry, I would cut and screw a piece of 1/4" hardboard (a/k/a Masonite) over the top of the entire accessible part of the water-damaged, but now treated and primed, plywood.  If 1/4" interferes with the bottom drawer glide, try a piece of 1/8" hardboard instead.

Out of an abundance of caution, I would then prime and paint the entire affected area, including the new hardboard, with two coats of a shellac-based primer.   Below is a link to one option:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Zinsser-1-qt-B-I-N-Shellac-Based-White-Interior-Primer-and-Sealer-00904/100398380?source=shoppingads&locale=en-US&pla&mtc=Shopping-BF-F_D24-G-D24-024_022_PRIMERS-Multi-NA-NA-LIA-NA-NA-FY21_Multi_LIA&cm_mmc=Shopping-BF-F_D24-G-D24-024_022_PRIMERS-Multi-NA-NA-LIA-NA-NA-FY21_Multi_LIA-71700000075826637-58700006498654198-92700058683659541&gclid=EAIaIQobChMInKuf5ZzR9gIVeh6tBh3-CAT8EAQYAyABEgKNZfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

The shellac-based primer will help prevent mold, mildew and dry rot should you have another leak.  It will also add another sealing layer, and leave the finished assembly almost as good as the original.

It is lots of work, and will require many days of dry and wait time.  But if it were my trailer, I would choose that route over tearing out and rebuilding the floor under the galley.  So much more can go wrong with that kind of rebuild.....

Good luck!

Excellent advice.  I have some spar urethane left over from a project that now will be finding a home on all plywood under the sink.

 

john

[Corvus]

35 minutes ago, John E Davies said:

think about installing a stainless drip tray with a drain hose going out the bottom of the cabinet.

This is something I was considering, but I was concerned about exposing more plywood layers for water to seep into. If you do this please post a how-to so the rest of us can do it properly.

[Corvus]

42 minutes ago, John E Davies said:

If you normally use the 12 volt water pump, it would immediately be obvious

That was my thought too. I rarely used the city water connection so I assume the leak was so slow that I didn't notice. Probably because we habitually turn off the pump when it is not being used. Just in case there is a leak.

[Imelda]

Rivernerd, thank you so much for excellent information. It would be a big undertaking for me to replace the plywood under the sink. It's not in good shape right now but I am worried about black mold. The leak has obviously been going on and unnoticed for a while. The last trip out in Oct 2021 the pump would occasional run for a few seconds when every faucet etc. was turned off. I suspected a small leak somewhere but couldn't find it.  I have 2 weeks until I leave for Utah. I am going to try your suggestion on the bleach and mold and mildew-killing primer as a short term fix. I may take a rotary cutter and cut a small hole in the base plywood to see how bad things look under the plywood. I have a couple of friends that are good at carpentry that could help replace the plywood when I get back. I think I should just replace the faucet rather than trying to make the old leaky one work short term and then fail on my trip. The one Mike's used looks like a good replacement. And per  John's suggestion I need to check the refrigerator connections at the back. It's a little dangerous for the electrics to be this close to water.

Live and learn. For sure adding pulling out the kitchen drawers to check for leaks on a routine check list. I had to get help on how to get these out and that's on another post.    

I am going to submit a ticket to Oliver regarding this. 

[AlbertNTerri]

Wouldn't this qualify for warranty coverage of manufacturing defect?

[Steph and Dud B]

8 hours ago, John E Davies said:

If you normally use the 12 volt water pump, it would immediately be obvious that the system was not holding pressure

I don't think so. This connection would only leak when the faucet is on and water is flowing to the sprayer. The system would hold pressure with the faucet off and the pump would stop. 

[Rivernerd]

On 3/17/2022 at 11:53 PM, albert said:

boy oh boy, looking at all this makes me nervous, do I need to pull the drawers and check all those connections when I take delivery?

Yes.  It is on my long list of things to check at the factory.  I also plan to test the water systems, both with "city" water and from the fresh water tank while at the Oliver campsite, then pull the drawers under the sink again to verify no leaks before we leave Hohenwald.

[Wanderers]

Good info here. I'll be checking while at the mother ship for pick up.

 

Thanks,

PerryG

[Rivernerd]

Does anyone know?

On 3/17/2022 at 9:01 PM, John E Davies said:

Normally you don’t put 120 volt AC electricity directly below plumbing connections. If it can’t go in a dry spot, it needs to be installed in a waterproof enclosure.

Makes me wonder if the refrigerator receptacle is GFCI protected, like other 120V receptacles in the trailer.  Does anyone know?  If it is, then the NEC may allow it to be located in a potentially wet area, like a receptacle next to a bathroom sink.