Best Replacement for Lifeline gpl-4ct agm battery

[roguebooks]

I am certain my two factory installed Llifeline gpl-4ct agm batteries need replacing as they won't hold a daylong solar panel charge. (My shore power is out at the moment.) I get them up to 11.1 Volts and within two or three hours they are down to 7 and slipping fast. What are the best replacement batteries for these two? I saw on amazon this option VMAXTANKS 6 Volt 225Ah AGM Battery: High Capacity & Maintenance Free Deep Cycle Battery for Golf Carts, Solar Energy, Wind Energy. I want to do what's best long term. I don't think I want lithium but will stay with AGM. Any suggestions or insight? (My elecrician still hasn't shown up. He says today.) I also saw this last double one but not sure if it is the right replacement. Ideas?

[dewdev]

I have 4 AGM Trojan batteries. They are still going strong and do not need to be replaced. 

When they need to be replaced, I plan to replace them with AGM batteries, which I believe are manufactured in the US.

[Frank C]

3 hours ago, roguebooks said:

I get them up to 11.1 Volts and within two or three hours they are down to 7 and slipping fast.

If your batteries are only getting “up to 11.1 volts”, they are not charged.  11.1 volts is a dead battery (less than 10% charged).  7 volts is really dead.   Sounds like your batteries do need replaced.  

[John E Davies]

Are you sure you want 6 volts? If you do lots of camping while connected to shore power, cheaper 12 volts ones might be worth considering.

https://www.getawaycouple.com/6v-deep-cycle-battery/#overall

If you do boondock a lot, switching to lithium is expensive at first, but a no brainer in the long run. You would also save a ton of dead weight which gives you back more payload. It also helps tremendously with resale value. I don’t think anybody who has done this regrets the decision.

https://battlebornbatteries.com/product-category/lifepo4-batteries/

They have one called the Gamechanger. I think that is a great description for lithium RV batteries in general.

John Davies

Spokane WA

[Rivernerd]

13 minutes ago, Frank C said:

Sounds like your batteries do need replaced.  

Unless you have previously replaced the AGM batteries in your 2018 Elite, it is no surprise they are dead.  4+ years is within the expected life of batteries with lead-acid chemistry, including Absorbed Glass Mat (AGM) batteries.

Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4) batteries cost quite a bit more, but have a much longer life, particularly if they are not used daily.  Unlike AGM batteries, LiFePO4 battery life depends much more on usage than just the passage of time.  So, unless you are full timing in your Oliver, you will likely get 10 years or more from LiFePO4 batteries.  Worth the additional investment, in my judgment.

There are some very useful threads on this Forum describing upgrades in Olivers from AGM to LiFePO4 batteries, including replacement of the converter. 

 

In your shoes, I would invest in a lithium upgrade.  Otherwise you will likely be once again replacing your new AGMs 4-6 years from now.

[John E Davies]

Another part of the lithium equation is vehicle charging. Your truck won’t charge them correctly (too low a voltage) (Oliver leaves that wire completely disconnected for the lithium packages), so if you need that capability you must add a DC to DC smart charger, that steps up the voltage. If you boondock under tree cover or on a gray day you need that capability, or else use your generator for a few hours, as needed. My Redarc charger will deliver 11 amps hour after hour when towing, that is a 50% charge for my two 100 AH batteries during a long 9 hour tow…..

https://olivertraveltrailers.com/forums/topic/5270-how-to-redarc-dc-to-dc-11-amp-output-trailer-charger-installation/

 

John Davies

Spokane WA

[roguebooks]

4 hours ago, John E Davies said:

Are you sure you want 6 volts? If you do lots of camping while connected to shore power, cheaper 12 volts ones might be worth considering.

https://www.getawaycouple.com/6v-deep-cycle-battery/#overall

If you do boondock a lot, switching to lithium is expensive at first, but a no brainer in the long run. You would also save a ton of dead weight which gives you back more payload. It also helps tremendously with resale value. I don’t think anybody who has done this regrets the decision.

https://battlebornbatteries.com/product-category/lifepo4-batteries/

They have one called the Gamechanger. I think that is a great description for lithium RV batteries in general.

John Davies

Spokane WA

John,

Are you saying I could get by with just one of these? 

https://battlebornbatteries.com/product/12v-lifepo4-deep-cycle-battery/

Do I have to change anything to the wiring or the inverter or anything else besides changing the solar controller to lifepo4?

Will this bugger fit in my battery compartment? I know the two 6V AGM's I have fit rather snug especially the headroom. 

[roguebooks]

2 hours ago, John E Davies said:

Another part of the lithium equation is vehicle charging. Your truck won’t charge them correctly (too low a voltage) (Oliver leaves that wire completely disconnected for the lithium packages), so if you need that capability you must add a DC to DC smart charger, that steps up the voltage. If you boondock under tree cover or on a gray day you need that capability, or else use your generator for a few hours, as needed. My Redarc charger will deliver 11 amps hour after hour when towing, that is a 50% charge for my two 100 AH batteries during a long 9 hour tow…..

https://olivertraveltrailers.com/forums/topic/5270-how-to-redarc-dc-to-dc-11-amp-output-trailer-charger-installation/

 

John Davies

Spokane WA

I don't like that idea. I do like recharging my batteries with truck between boondocking locations and I doubt I have the people here to help me with all this technical stuff. Maybe I better stick to the AGM's. Not sure what the difference is between a 12V and a 2-6V other than I only need one 12V. Is it the same size as two 6V? I am thinking my trailering days will be over before the AGM batteries quit again. 

[roguebooks]

4 hours ago, Frank C said:

If your batteries are only getting “up to 11.1 volts”, they are not charged.  11.1 volts is a dead battery (less than 10% charged).  7 volts is really dead.   Sounds like your batteries do need replaced.  

Yep.That's a far as I could get, 11.1 and I know that is also why I get the red lights and blinking. I'll have my electrician test the AGM's but I am quite certain they are ruined. This morning they read 4.1 before I set up the solar suitcase. Four hours later it is only reading 8.9 so the charging is working inside and out but the batteries won't hold a charge or get fully charged or get the controller to settle down. I still don't know where those darn 40 amp fuses are in my trailer from the panels to the controller and the controller to the batteries although I assume they are ok. 

[AndrewK]

Roguebooks,

If you would like someone to discuss this further with and/or walk you through the process over the phone, I would be more than happy to help.

Message me, with your contact information, if you are interested in discussing.

Andrew

[roguebooks]

16 minutes ago, AndrewK said:

Roguebooks,

If you would like someone to discuss this further with and/or walk you through the process over the phone, I would be more than happy to help.

Message me, with your contact information, if you are interested in discussing.

Andrew

Thanks Andrew. My electrician just showed up so maybe I'll have something positive to write about tomorrow. When it rains it pours. I'll PM you if I need you to explain something better. My electrician is pretty sharp and also lives pretty much full-time in his RV on some land outside of Gainesville. He is also going to research some on what battery/batteries to purchase for my situation. 

[WandR]

Hi Roguebooks,

Here is what I did last year when I replaced my original Trojan AGM batteries.  Take a look at this thread and see if it helps.

 

[Chukarhunter]

Roguebooks,

Yes, you could replace your two 6 volt AGM batteries (220 ah at 20 hour rate) with one 12 volt LifePO4 (lithium) battery (100 ah) and it would actually be an upgrade in performance under most conditions.  Some reasons for this are:

1.  The AGM's are rated at 220 ah when discharging over 20 hours which is an 11ah rate of discharge (220 ah/20 hours).  At a 5 hour rate of discharge storage falls to under 190 ah of which only half (95 ah) is usable without dramatically shortening battery life.  Lithium batteries do not lose storage capacity at high rates of discharge like the AGMs and can be discharged down to 15% without any significant voltage drop or shortening battery life.  This benefit is very noticeable if one has an inverter and occasionally places large loads on the batteries (microwave, hot pot, etc.). 

2.  It takes hours to charge the AGM batteries the last 20 percent no matter how large a charger you use due to internal battery resistance that increases with state of charge.  Lithium batteries can accept very large charge currents right up to the point at which they reach full charge.  It can mean the difference between running a generator for 2 hours versus 5 hours.  It also means that you will always be able to continuously store the full output of your solar panels unless the batteries are completely full.

3.  AGM batteries perform poorly at cold temperatures due to significant voltage drop.  At 32 degrees F, an AGM battery loses 15 percent of its capacity.  The lithiums lose almost none.

If you do have an inverter/charger installed in your LE , it almost certainly has a LifePO4 charging profile in which case there is nothing else to do to convert to lithium batteries besides removing the AGMs and putting the lithium (s) in and reconnecting the battery cables.

Steve

Here is a link to a testimonial from a mariner who made the switch and discovered the more obscure benefits of converting to LifePO4.  He explains all this pretty well.

https://panbo.com/lithium-battery-math-better-than-you-may-think/

 

 

 

[SeaDawg]

If you mostly camp with hookups, and rarely use your inverter,  one 12v battery will be totally fine. 

105 ah on a group 31. Roughly 50 ah usable, max.

If you only occasionally overnight without hookups, you'll still be fine, if you don't use the inverter and powersucker microwave.

We have 2 group 31 deka / east penn agm batteries in our elite1. It works for us, but we are power misers. (Our electric fridge is our big power sucker.)

Like I said, you're fine with one battery, as long as you rarely use the inverter. Not a lot of wiggle room, with a single battery.  Then again, you've not had a lot of wiggle room with current 2 x 6v.

One of my best friends camps with us often, with a single agm battery. She's a power penny pincher, though. Veteran tent camper. She can go three days, without firing up a grnset, no solat.

[roguebooks]

1 hour ago, WandR said:

Here is what I did last year when I replaced my original Trojan AGM batteries.  Take a look at this thread and see if it helps.

Thank you. Much to consider here. We got the power up and running today, installed a new transfer switch, and my electrician wants me to power up at least twelve hours before shutting down and seeing if the batteries hold their full charge (I am doubting they will). He is going to look at possible options regarding going with one 12V AGM versus two 6V AGM. My wife and I decided not to upgrade to lithium due to present expenses and we will both be happy if we have to replace our new AGM's in four or five years (meaning we got to live and travel some more). I will update as soon as I decide and we see what tomorrow brings regarding the present batteries. I did notice that the two 6V AGM's I had in my Amazon shopping cart were 1" taller than my current AGM's. That isn't going to work as the Oliver battery compartment is already too tight.  

[roguebooks]

1 hour ago, Chukarhunter said:

If you do have an inverter/charger installed in your LE , it almost certainly has a LifePO4 charging profile in which case there is nothing else to do to convert to lithium batteries besides removing the AGMs and putting the lithium (s) in and reconnecting the battery cables.

Steve

Great help. Thanks. I just might switch to LifePO4 if all I have to do is change the batteries. Our Ollie has solar and inverter and it was made in 2018. Is it really true? Nothing to do but change the batteries?

[SeaDawg]

1 hour ago, roguebooks said:

solar and inverter and it was made in 2018. Is it really true? Nothing to do but change the batteries?

You will have to change the charging profile, on yourczamp, at the least. 

How do you camp? Do you need/want lithium?

 

[roguebooks]

13 minutes ago, SeaDawg said:

You will have to change the charging profile, on yourczamp, at the least. 

How do you camp? Do you need/want lithium?

 

We boondock a couple days then head for more amenities but I’d like to know we could make it for four or five. The price for one 12v lithium is actually less than two 6V Lifeline AGM so yes, I think I want the lithium if I don’t have to do anything but hook ‘em up. I know I change the Zamp controller setting but not sure where the charging profile is.

[ADKCamper]

We have a late-2018 Elite with the (2) Lifeline 6v AGM's... now in year 4 and still holding up well.

We will probably switch to lithium when these die.

Yes, as mentioned you can change the Zamp solar controller charge profile. However, our 60A Progressive Dynamics PD4060CSV converter (bundled in with the breaker panel under the side dinette) does not support a lithium charging profile. Battleborn (and I'm sure other places) sells a replacement PD4060LICSV converter with a lithium charge profile. The converter swap-out is pretty straight-forward. A year or so ago I saw them on sale for about $187... I haven't looked lately, and almost everything is more expensive now!

[roguebooks]

6 hours ago, ADKCamper said:

We have a late-2018 Elite with the (2) Lifeline 6v AGM's... now in year 4 and still holding up well.

We will probably switch to lithium when these die.

Yes, as mentioned you can change the Zamp solar controller charge profile. However, our 60A Progressive Dynamics PD4060CSV converter (bundled in with the breaker panel under the side dinette) does not support a lithium charging profile. Battleborn (and I'm sure other places) sells a replacement PD4060LICSV converter with a lithium charge profile. The converter swap-out is pretty straight-forward. A year or so ago I saw them on sale for about $187... I haven't looked lately, and almost everything is more expensive now!

Thanks. That will be the deal breaker for us. Just when it was looking like a great idea. Any added expense at this stage is a no no. I am sure we have the same converter as you. I'm not planning on hauling a trailer around for much longer than four or five years so...  

[roguebooks]

These batteries appear to be the best option for us if we need two new batteries (which I should find out today). Let me know what you think. Link below.  Plus they are a bit smaller than my present ones which will help in these tight quarters.  You all have been so helpful and kind. Thank you again.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07F7NTQ29/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

[roguebooks]

Upon shore power inspection this morning the controller read 13.7 and the tank monitor read 13.6

I unplugged the trailer and will monitor throughout the day whether the batteries hold or not. Nothing is running, no lights or fans. One concern was the ah readout which said 0.2. Shouldn't that reading instead represent a full charge after being plugged into shore power for over 12 hours? Hmm 

[John E Davies]

4 hours ago, roguebooks said:

These batteries appear to be the best option for us if we need two new batteries (which I should find out today). Let me know what you think. Link below.  Plus they are a bit smaller than my present ones which will help in these tight quarters.  You all have been so helpful and kind. Thank you again.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07F7NTQ29/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

What do you mean by “best option”? Those are no name batteries with no real reputation. Have you read their warranty terms?

I can pretty much guarantee you won’t get very much usable capacity and even two years of use in a rough riding travel trailer installation. Run, don’t walk.

Buy a name brand with solid reputation, a good warranty and a dealer network for future support while traveling. Your intended use (many days off grid) requires this! If your finances are so limited that you cannot maintain your Ollie properly, then IMHO  you need to rethink owning it. It will only result in extra expenses and future heartache.

John Davies

Spokane WA

[roguebooks]

8 minutes ago, John E Davies said:

What do you mean by best option? Those are no name batteries with no real reputation. Have you read their warranty terms?

I can pretty much guarantee you won’t get very much usable capacity and even two years of use in a rough riding travel trailer installation. Run, don’t walk.

Buy a name brand with a good warranty and a dealer network for future support while traveling. Your intended use (many days off grid) requires this! If your finances are so limited that you cannot maintain your Ollie properly, then IMHO  you need to rethink owning it. It will only result in extra expenses and future heartache.

John Davies

Spokane WA

I am not concerned with spending money on something I need. I just want a system that is simple, good, and does what I want it to do. The AGM Lifeline batteries really did not live up to expectations. I am happy to use lithium but it gets more complicated. I am, and have been, maintaining the trailer. But not interested in doing it the rest of my life, whatever is left. Any suggestions for a reputable 6V AGM battery that isn't taller that 10 inches? I am happy to pay. And it isn't the money for maintenance, it is the lack of my know how. I do know my limitations. 

[John E Davies]

The only way to determine the true health of a sealed lead acid battery is by a load test. Your electrician should be able to do that easily.

John Davies

Spokane WA