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Window leaking out the bottom (condensation?) when sun hits in the a.m.


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Hi there,

My window is leaking quite a bit of water out of the bottom , under the metal strip.  This happens every morning after a cold night, when the sun hits the window in the morning.

Three of my windows have leaked when it rains, and I cleaned all the weep holes and tracks, but it has not rained since I cleaned the tracks, so I don’t know if rain is still an issue.  

This is specifically an issue with some type of condensation or humidity coming in from the outside after a cold night, when the sun comes up and warms the window.  I am in a micro climate (high desert in CO) in which winter nights can be well below freezing (single digits or less at times), while days can be quite warm, and temps can rise into the 40s.  The location is an arid high valley surrounded by very high mountains on all sides, so the mountains create a protective barrier.  All of this creates a big difference between cold nights and warmer days.

Every morning, my bed gets wet, not good when you have mold sensitivities.  So this is specifically an issue with some type of condensation or humidity coming in from the outside after a cold night, when the sun comes up and warms the window, see pic.

I tried cracking the window during the night, but this does not solve the problem.  The Oliver windows are tricky, so I don’t know how to prevent the leak, because I have been told not to apply sealant (??) though my inclination would be to caulk the inside edge (?)  What else can I do?

Brief rant alert:  I spent a big chunk of my savings when I bought this Oliver, but she has been a 🍋.   😭😭😭   The windows have leaked, there has been a leak between the hulls whenever I use fresh water, with water coming out of the clam shell openings in the bottom, and I have had a significant gas leak, and cannot use the furnace or stove at present.  There is a problem with the electrical circuit, where fuses are blowing, and my newly replaced battery never shows an adequate charge.  Now, the bathroom fan no longer works, and I am having issues with condensation when the fiberglass gets cold (in addition to window leaking).  My Oliver isn’t that old, but I feel like I’m living in a leaky boat, unable to use many of the features.

The RV techs have not found the source of the fresh water leak, and many of the techs here are busy, and keep bailing on me (combination weird pandemic after effects, and some wonky people in Colorado who tend to take advantage of “tourists.”).

Rant over, let’s start with the windows?  If any of you live in CO, do you know of any good mobile techs?   I am in Buena Vista, CO. Sorry, I think photos uploaded upside down.

Thanks,

 

Margaret
 

 

 

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Margaret.  Oliver Legacy Elite II, 2017 (Jasmine).  Nissan Armada 2018.  Hull 179.  

 

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Sorry to hear about all of your issues.  For the Colorado folks it would be helpful to know your location before recommending an RV tech.

For your leaky windows, did you try putting some water on them with a hose since you’ve had no rain since cleaning the tracks?

It sounds like a lot of condensation.  We’ve not had any significant problem with condensation and we’ve camped all over to include many Colorado locations.  Do you keep one or both of your ceiling vents open at night?  Are you able to run an electric space heater?

I’m surprised no RV techs have been able to locate your freshwater leak.  Do you have the leak when using the water pump or just while on city water?  With the system pressurized you should be able to look under the dinette seats to see if there is moisture that might indicate it is coming from the bathroom.  Checking under the curbside bed (both access points) for moisture on the floor would tell if it is from all the plumbing on that side.  A blue paper towel is your friend when doing checks.  If there is no moisture on either side of the trailer then looking under the basement floor in the back would be the next area to check.  That entails emptying the basement and lifting the floor to examine the water lines that run from the city water inlet on the back side of the trailer around the curbside, past the furnace and hot water to the water pump area.   If you raise or lower the front of the trailer does it make a difference in the amount or location of water leaking from under the trailer?

I just repaired a freshwater leak that I had.  I checked all the hull access points and found no moisture.  I disassembled the basement to find moisture, but the pex lines were dry.  When I checked around the furnace and hot water heater I found a cracked plastic Pex T-joint coming out of the hot water tank down below the heating ducts that was dripping whenever the water system was pressurized. I had missed that when checking the back access hatch at the bed.  When I stuck a blue paper towel down there I found the leak.   I replaced it with a brass T-joint.

If you have a serious propane leak I would have that looked at right away.  You might be able to find a propane guy that would help.  The guy we use for our home propane told me once he could help with any propane issues I might have with my trailer.

Same with your electrical, I’m not an expert and would have a regular electrician or qualified RV tech troubleshoot.

Is your trailer still under warranty?  Have you opened trouble tickets with service?  Once you do they will call to help.

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2 hours ago, Margaret said:

Hi there,

My window is leaking quite a bit of water out of the bottom , under the metal strip.  This happens every morning after a cold night, when the sun hits the window in the morning.

Three of my windows have leaked when it rains, and I cleaned all the weep holes and tracks, but it has not rained since I cleaned the tracks, so I don’t know if rain is still an issue.  

This is specifically an issue with some type of condensation or humidity coming in from the outside after a cold night, when the sun comes up and warms the window.  I am in a micro climate (high desert in CO) in which winter nights can be well below freezing (single digits or less at times), while days can be quite warm, and temps can rise into the 40s.  The location is an arid high valley surrounded by very high mountains on all sides, so the mountains create a protective barrier.  All of this creates a big difference between cold nights and warmer days.

Every morning, my bed gets wet, not good when you have mold sensitivities.  So this is specifically an issue with some type of condensation or humidity coming in from the outside after a cold night, when the sun comes up and warms the window, see pic.

I tried cracking the window during the night, but this does not solve the problem.  The Oliver windows are tricky, so I don’t know how to prevent the leak, because I have been told not to apply sealant (??) though my inclination would be to caulk the inside edge (?)  What else can I do?

Brief rant alert:  I spent a big chunk of my savings when I bought this Oliver, but she has been a 🍋.   😭😭😭   The windows have leaked, there has been a leak between the hulls whenever I use fresh water, with water coming out of the clam shell openings in the bottom, and I have had a significant gas leak, and cannot use the furnace or stove at present.  There is a problem with the electrical circuit, where fuses are blowing, and my newly replaced battery never shows an adequate charge.  Now, the bathroom fan no longer works, and I am having issues with condensation when the fiberglass gets cold (in addition to window leaking).  My Oliver isn’t that old, but I feel like I’m living in a leaky boat, unable to use many of the features.

The RV techs have not found the source of the fresh water leak, and many of the techs here are busy, and keep bailing on me (combination weird pandemic after effects, and some wonky people in Colorado who tend to take advantage of “tourists.”).

Rant over, let’s start with the windows?  If any of you live in CO, do you know of any good mobile techs?  Sorry, I think photos uploaded upside down.

Thanks,

 

Margaret
 

 

 

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Awwh Margaret, I’m so sorry you are having all these issues, how very disheartening for you. Did you open a ticket with Oliver? Hopefully they can get your Ollie back up to speed. I wish I had answers for you. For the condensation we have found leaving the vent or a window open and using a few Damp Rids helps a lot, we also run a small dehumidifier.   

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Michigan 

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1 hour ago, Mike and Carol said:

Sorry to hear about all of your issues.  For the Colorado folks it would be helpful to know your location before recommending an RV tech.

For your leaky windows, did you try putting some water on them with a hose since you’ve had no rain since cleaning the tracks?

It sounds like a lot of condensation.  We’ve not had any significant problem with condensation and we’ve camped all over to include many Colorado locations.  Do you keep one or both of your ceiling vents open at night?  Are you able to run an electric space heater?

I’m surprised no RV techs have been able to locate your freshwater leak.  Do you have the leak when using the water pump or just while on city water?  With the system pressurized you should be able to look under the dinette seats to see if there is moisture that might indicate it is coming from the bathroom.  Checking under the curbside bed (both access points) for moisture on the floor would tell if it is from all the plumbing on that side.  A blue paper towel is your friend when doing checks.  If there is no moisture on either side of the trailer then looking under the basement floor in the back would be the next area to check.  That entails emptying the basement and lifting the floor to examine the water lines that run from the city water inlet on the back side of the trailer around the curbside, past the furnace and hot water to the water pump area.   If you raise or lower the front of the trailer does it make a difference in the amount or location of water leaking from under the trailer?

I just repaired a freshwater leak that I had.  I checked all the hull access points and found no moisture.  I disassembled the basement to find moisture, but the pex lines were dry.  When I checked around the furnace and hot water heater I found a cracked plastic Pex T-joint coming out of the hot water tank down below the heating ducts that was dripping whenever the water system was pressurized. I had missed that when checking the back access hatch at the bed.  When I stuck a blue paper towel down there I found the leak.   I replaced it with a brass T-joint.

If you have a serious propane leak I would have that looked at right away.  You might be able to find a propane guy that would help.  The guy we use for our home propane told me once he could help with any propane issues I might have with my trailer.

Same with your electrical, I’m not an expert and would have a regular electrician or qualified RV tech troubleshoot.

Is your trailer still under warranty?  Have you opened trouble tickets with service?  Once you do they will call to help.

Thank you, Mike and Carol,

Ok, so first, are you suggesting running a hose against the window as a diagnostic test to find the window leak?  What do you think about caulking underneath the window?

I didn’t have any issues with condensation until the nights got really cold (think Winter).  I was happy with the lack of condensation.  However, when temps hit 20, as they regularly do after sunset, the fiberglass gets really cold, even on the inside.  It may be that my inability to use the furnace contributes to that, but yes, I am running an electric heater.  I still don’t know if the window leak is from condensation, or what it is.  I am surmising it comes from dew or condensation outside, since the water is coming from outside.  I think opening the vents is a good idea.

As for the RV techs, I think they just aren’t doing what they’re supposed to be doing.  I went to a fancy place in Denver, and they blamed the freshwater leak on me.  They said I wasn’t keeping the camper level enough, and other such nonsense.  They were condescending and dismissive (kind of like doctors sometimes are), so enough of that . . . .    I think your suggestions for locating a leak are good.  I’m pretty sure the leak only occurs when I’m using the pump and freshwater tank, not when I’m using city water and a hook up.

I did have the propane leak looked at.  The first guy , who is a friend with a Box truck conversion, used soapy water, and didn’t find anything.  The second guy, who was an actual tech, found Mud Dauber’s nests in the furnace (likely from the camper’s original Texas home), so he supposedly cut off gas access to the furnace, and was going to order a new furnace, but said I could keep the propane on for cooking.  However, after he left, both the propane monitor and my stand alone monitor started beeping like crazy, and the tanks emptied out.  So now I’m not sure if I should continue using him or not.

I will try electricians and propane companies.  Those are good ideas.  The trailer is no longer under warranty, but I could open a ticket with Oliver.  I am not in a position, however, to take a lot of long drives, and my camper is skirted at present.

I will edit my post , and add my location.

Thanks again,

 

Margaret

 

 

 

 

 


 

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Margaret.  Oliver Legacy Elite II, 2017 (Jasmine).  Nissan Armada 2018.  Hull 179.  

 

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52 minutes ago, Katjo said:

Awwh Margaret, I’m so sorry you are having all these issues, how very disheartening for you. Did you open a ticket with Oliver? Hopefully they can get your Ollie back up to speed. I wish I had answers for you. For the condensation we have found leaving the vent or a window open and using a few Damp Rids helps a lot, we also run a small dehumidifier.   

Thanks Katjo!

 

I think I will open a ticket.  I have cracked windows, and it helps with interior condensation, but not for the weird drip under the window that occurs in the morning.  Damp Rids and a humidifier are a good idea.  I will open the ticket tonight.  Problem is, I’m skirted for winter . . . .

 

Margaret

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Margaret.  Oliver Legacy Elite II, 2017 (Jasmine).  Nissan Armada 2018.  Hull 179.  

 

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Hmmmm.  Did you smell propane when it was on?  Mud daubers nests can usually be cleaned without replacing the appliance.  I had a nest in my AC, cleaned it out and all is fine.  Not sure why that would cause a leak.

For water leaks, open your access panels under the dinette and curbside bed.  Use a blue paper towel and feel around to see if you can locate any moisture.  Do this with the pump on or while hooked up to city water.

With an electric heater and the ceiling vents open we’ve not had any condensation issues even in overnight temps into the teens.  We have had some dampness, but nothing that gets a bed wet.

Jason and his team at Oliver service will help.  Click on the Service tab at the top of the web page and fill out a ticket for each issue.  They will give you a call and may be able to do some long distance troubleshooting.  I hope the previous owner didn’t sell a trailer with known issues.

Keep us posted.  Mike

Texas Hill Country | Elite II #135 | Ram 2500 6.7L

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7 minutes ago, Mike and Carol said:

Hmmmm.  Did you smell propane when it was on?  Mud daubers nests can usually be cleaned without replacing the appliance.  I had a nest in my AC, cleaned it out and all is fine.  Not sure why that would cause a leak.

For water leaks, open your access panels under the dinette and curbside bed.  Use a blue paper towel and feel around to see if you can locate any moisture.  Do this with the pump on or while hooked up to city water.

With an electric heater and the ceiling vents open we’ve not had any condensation issues even in overnight temps into the teens.  We have had some dampness, but nothing that gets a bed wet.

Jason and his team at Oliver service will help.  Click on the Service tab at the top of the web page and fill out a ticket for each issue.  They will give you a call and may be able to do some long distance troubleshooting.  I hope the previous owner didn’t sell a trailer with known issues.

Keep us posted.  Mike

I will do so.  Right now, I am most concerned about the water that drips down from under the window in rivulets, and that’s what gets the bed wet.  I am not sure if that is condensation or not?  Is it safe to caulk under the window, or ill advised.  Thank you so much for the advice, and I will do my best to keep you posted.

 

Margaret

Margaret.  Oliver Legacy Elite II, 2017 (Jasmine).  Nissan Armada 2018.  Hull 179.  

 

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10 minutes ago, Margaret said:

I will do so.  Right now, I am most concerned about the water that drips down from under the window in rivulets, and that’s what gets the bed wet.  I am not sure if that is condensation or not?  Is it safe to caulk under the window, or ill advised.  Thank you so much for the advice, and I will do my best to keep you posted.

 

Margaret

There is no plumbing around the windows.  So leaking water is either rain or condensation.  Your windows should already be caulked.  That’s a lot of water if it is soaking your bed.  Mike

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Texas Hill Country | Elite II #135 | Ram 2500 6.7L

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Cracking a roof vent will help with internal condensation. You want to create a convection airflow, where warm most air inside rises and leaves via the roof vent. We usually crack ours just a little to accomplish that. If you also crack a window, I'd use the one by the dinette instead of over a bed and, again, just a crack to let cool dry air replace the warm most air leaving via the vent. 

Not running the furnace may be contributing to your problem, too. The furnace warms up the space between the hulls a bit so the outer hull is the one in contact with the coldest air. That should cause most of the condensation to occur on the inside of the outer shell, then drain out the bottom. 

I hope Service is able to help you get this resolved. Good luck. 

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26 minutes ago, Steph and Dud B said:

Cracking a roof vent will help with internal condensation. You want to create a convection airflow, where warm most air inside rises and leaves via the roof vent. We usually crack ours just a little to accomplish that. If you also crack a window, I'd use the one by the dinette instead of over a bed and, again, just a crack to let cool dry air replace the warm most air leaving via the vent. 

Not running the furnace may be contributing to your problem, too. The furnace warms up the space between the hulls a bit so the outer hull is the one in contact with the coldest air. That should cause most of the condensation to occur on the inside of the outer shell, then drain out the bottom. 

I hope Service is able to help you get this resolved. Good luck. 

Hi Steph and Dud B,

Thanks for the reminder about the roof vent.  I’ve tried cracking windows, and it doesn’t resolve the leaky window.  You are absolutely right about the furnace.  I am well aware of that.  I do wish I could get that repaired.  I hope a savvy repair person shows up, bc I am unable to drive to TN at present.

The plumbing issue is a separate issue that only occurs when I am using the pump and the freshwater tank (not on a full hook up).

The leak only occurs in the morning, and it is indeed a lot of water that drains inside from under the window.  It has not been raining , so it must be condensation, but for some reason, fans, heaters, cracked windows , etc. are not resolving it. I do think the water is coming from outside the window somehow, even though it isn’t raining.  Can we post videos in the forum?

 

Thanks for the nice reply

Margaret

 

 


 


 

The water is clearly draining from underneath the metal that

Margaret.  Oliver Legacy Elite II, 2017 (Jasmine).  Nissan Armada 2018.  Hull 179.  

 

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We spent last night in our new Elite II in Cortez, CO.  The overnight low was 11 degrees F.  We had condensation on the inside of the trailer in the morning.  When outside temps get that low, just the vapor from people sleeping in the trailer can condense on the cold walls and windows.  I do not believe it indicates a leak.

We found that running a dehumidifier helps collect the moisture and keep it off the walls and windows.

 

Hull #1291

Central Idaho

2022 Elite II

Tow Vehicle:  2019 Tundra Double Cab 4x4, 5.7L with tow package

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13 hours ago, Margaret said:

Is it safe to caulk under the window, or ill advised.

Are you referring to caulking under the windows inside, or outside?  As Mike mentioned above, the windows are already caulked outside.   They need to be re-caulked periodically, Oliver has a video and detailed instructions as to when and how to do this.   Do not caulk the windows inside.   In fact, don’t implement any solution until you have determined the root cause.  You previously reported window leaks in a post on August 8th (see link), due to rain.   Patriot recommended you remove all your window seals and clean the weep holes, and provided additional info as to how.  If the weep holes are plugged they can cause a leak inside, from condensation,  just like you describe.   Have you removed your window seals, cleaned your window tracks and confirmed that the weep holes are not obstructed? 

Margaret’s Window Leaks

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“Ramble” - 2021 Legacy Elite II #797;  2020 Ford F-250

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Sorry to hear you are still having problems,  Margaret, but I think you've narrowed some things down.

If you've been keeping your trailer closed up most of the time, and you're living in it full-time, you're going to have condensation.  (Pretty sure that's the drip coming down the wall and collecting in belly band,  since you've had no rain.) We humans  emit water when we breathe and sweat, and add showering and cooking and you have moisture in the air that collects on the hull when temperatures drop.  A number of folks use a small dehumidifier in similar situations. And, crack the roof vent. Heat rises. The Ollie is pretty tight. You have to evacuate the moisture somehow. 

2nd issue, water leak when running pump off tank, but not on city water.  Continue looking in the pump area. Fairly likely it's a loose or damaged connection near the pump, and Mike's suggestion of blue paper shop towels in the pump area should help you pinpoint the issue. (You could use regular paper towels, if the area is completely dry before you disconnect from city water, and turn on the pump,  but it always seem to show up better with the shop towels for me.)

Third issue, rv repair person. I'm guessing you are in an rv park for the season, since you are skirted, and have full hookups. Have you spoken with the park manager about a referral for a qualified rv tech, who will work on-site? You really do need a qualified person to sort out your propane issues. Should you lose electricity over winter, you will need the furnace and the water heater working on gas. 

Best of luck. It may be that the previous owner of your trailer skipped some maintenance,  but you'll eventually get it sorted out, I'm sure. Unfortunately,  spring is not just around the corner.  The propane issue, especially,  needs to be addressed now.

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2 hours ago, SeaDawg said:

 Fairly likely it's a loose or damaged connection near the pump, and Mike's suggestion of blue paper shop towels in the pump area should help you pinpoint the issue.

This is exactly where our water leak occurred during our trip to Alaska.  The flexible hose line came loose at the pump.  Took longer to move the bed out of the way and find the adjustable wrench than it did to find the leak and tighten the fitting. 

Sorry too, that you are having issues and I hope you get them resolved quickly.

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On the trip we are presently on, we have experienced the same problem Margaret mentioned about water dripping from the bottom of the window frames.

We were camping in Yosemite NP with nighttime temps at 26 and daytime temps in the low 40s.  Humidity was between the low 30s during the day and about 70 overnight.  There was about a foot of snow on the ground. The temperature dropped below freezing by 7:00 pm and did not move above freezing until about 10:00 am.  Overnight the main roof vent was fully open, windows next to the beds were cracked open and interior humidity was in the low 30s to low 40s.  The interior thermostat was set at 60.  The interior shell radiated cold all night long.

When we woke up, we turned the thermostat to 67.  As the interior temperature raised, each of the window began to have moisture drip out from between the hull and the interior compression frame of the window.

Note there is very little to no condensation on the windows or window frames themselves.

My theory is there is moisture building up between the upper hulls and freezing overnight.  When were turn up the temperature in the morning, the ice begins to melt between the hulls and leaks.

There is no evidence of water in the lower hull and that makes sense as the upper and lower shells are mostly sealed from one another at the adhesive joint along the belly band.

Without removing the window and examining the area in more detail, I don’t have any idea for a fix at this time.

I am interested in anyone’s thoughts.

Andrew

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Andrew, Carianne and Buffy | San Diego, CA


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On 11/21/2022 at 7:13 PM, AndrewK said:

My theory is there is moisture building up between the upper hulls and freezing overnight.  When were turn up the temperature in the morning, the ice begins to melt between the hulls and leaks.

Quite a puzzle Andrew.   I regret I have no solutions yet, but giving it some serious thought.   I like your theory, but can’t think of how any significant moisture could get between the upper shells?  Anyone else got ideas?

“Ramble” - 2021 Legacy Elite II #797;  2020 Ford F-250

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I would like to once again point out that an Ollie is a recreational vehicle, and it is specifically mentioned in the manual that it is not designed for full time occupancy. And that for winter use in frigid temps the water system must be winterized if the furnace is not used. A few owners certainly do full time them, but to live in them continually as a residence requires extra diligence in keeping all the complicated systems working as designed. Especially in frigid temperatures! I am not sure that anyone relying on the overwhelmed professional RV service industry  should try this. I certainly would not attempt it if I could not fix stuff myself!

My first suggestion to Margaret is to get the water and gas leak(s) fixed. ASAP. The latter is a huge safety risk, do not use any gas appliance until that is corrected (turn off the main valves!!!). Proper furnace operation combined with adequate air flow should correct the moisture issues caused by excess inside humidity…  once that inside leak is stopped! The second suggestion is to move to a warm desert location for the winter.

Have you gone door to door asking neighbors for help? RVers are generally a friendly bunch, maybe you can find one who understands and can repair your trailer’s  faults.

BTW with the furnace operating, warm (ish) air from the basement goes into the spaces between the hulls. That should stop any chance of ice forming in those locations. Space heaters inside the living area do not do that. Good luck.

John Davies

Spokane WA

 

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"Mouse":  2017 Legacy Elite II NARV (Not An RV) Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/john-e-davies-how-to-threads-and-tech-articles-links/

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On 11/20/2022 at 9:05 PM, Rivernerd said:

We spent last night in our new Elite II in Cortez, CO.  The overnight low was 11 degrees F.  We had condensation on the inside of the trailer in the morning.  When outside temps get that low, just the vapor from people sleeping in the trailer can condense on the cold walls and windows.  I do not believe it indicates a leak.

We found that running a dehumidifier helps collect the moisture and keep it off the walls and windows.

What brand of dehumidifier are you using?

John, #1290

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John and Debbie, Beaverton, Oregon,  2017 Ford Expedition EL 4x4 3.5 liter Ecoboost, with heavy duty tow package. 

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12 hours ago, John Welte said:

What brand of dehumidifier are you using?

It is an Eva-Dry, model EV1100.

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Our first night out from the factory we ran into a winter storm.  The heavy rain turned to snow over night and the temps went down to 15.  As it warmed the next day, some snow on the roof melted and as the weep holes filled, they froze up overnight. The next day as it warmed enough for the snow to melt again the weep holes were still frozen and so the water leaked in through a window.  Maybe a possibility to explore.  Good luck :) 

John

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Oliver II #996 "Bessie", 2019 Silverado LTZ 5.3, Veterans

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