Tow Vehicle Suspension Upgrade? Eliminate Need for Anderson WD Hitch

[jd1923]

So, we only have a couple hundred miles on our new-to-us Oliver and TV. It's 100 degrees outside, not motivating for maintenance activities, and likely we will not travel again 'til October or later. We usually camp Oct-Apr down here in the SW. Of course, the '01 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins pulled the O with ease, with 4-5K lbs more tow weight capacity available. We did have some sway on I-40, with some wavy asphalt, many semitrucks and wind. The Anderson mounted easily a couple of times, but one time not so much, causing a few foul words, and yes, I watched the video. I've only owned this Ram for a few weeks and have not yet had time to check the front end or much anything else, and at 22 years old and 161K miles it may need a ball joint, tie-rod end or something.  

I've read here (that's all I've been doing lately) that most of you with newer Rams or F250s, ditch the Anderson WDH and all is good. I read some of you are using helper springs. My Ram dropped rear height quite a bit mounting the 6K lb TT, more than it should. The Anderson did correct the front-to-rear height a bit, though I felt the same minor sway, with the chains tight or loose. It does not appear the WDH changes anything. I really want this ride to feel solid as a rock at Interstate speeds. 

The Ram has a ridiculous rear sway bar. Without measuring, it's looks like 7/8" diameter. I can replace it with a Hellwig sway bar and that's one option, but that will not correct sag. When I clicked on an e-Trailer link, one of you with a newer Ram supplied for a helper spring, it stated it would not fit my older Ram. When I queried, what will, this came up: 2001 Dodge Ram Pickup Vehicle Suspension - SuperSprings Intl (etrailer.com)

Reading the description, it states; "They significantly reduce sway and prevent sagging, which is perfect for towing" and "to compensate for minor spring fatigue in an older automobile." It reads like it's everything I need. Reasonable cost and easy to install. I will do some research on Ram and Cummins forums. Though can anybody here help? Do you have experience with this kind of product? Or do you have other suggestions?

[SeaDawg]

I don't have a dog in the hunt, but I "think" you may already be heavy forward with your Cummins diesel. An Equalizer sends more weight forward. 

Maybe try test towing without additional hardware? See how it feels? Most 2500 owners here do not use an Anderson, nor sway bars, from what i have read.

We have 1500's, nothing but the hitch, but an original elite.

2500 owners,,Cummins diesel, please weigh in.

[John E Davies]

Before you start messing with springs, make sure the front end is tight. I am not sure about the 2001 models, but my 2006 3500 5.9 was notorious for destroying ball joints. I replaced mine with OEM ones at 90,000 miles. There are much better aftermarket ones that will last forever if you plan to keep the truck forever. They are expensive.

If the shocks are tired, replace all four.

What tire pressure are you running? I hope not 80 psi F/R. That will make the ride really hard and squirrelly. Try 55/60 depending on the bed load. If you are towing with ammo or anvils in the bed, you will need more air in the back. Let tire temperatures be your guide. What is your payload?

You do NOT need the Andersen with that truck! A $50 fixed dead weight mount and ball is fine. Try to find a 7500 rated  ball with extra long 1” diameter shank, made for mounting through fixed truck bumpers. I got mine from eTrailer. You can fine trim the coupler height to level the trailer if necessary using hardened 1/8” fender washers from a bolt supplier.

If the truck still feels odd, go with aftermarket lifted springs front and back, my truck only had 2” of up travel in front before the axle hit the stops! 

You do definitely need better seats. Take a look at the excellent Corbeau suspension seats with adjustable backs. 

John Davies

Spokane WA

[Frank C]

Ditto to John’s comment.  Before anything else you should check & replace all of the front end steering and suspension components (ball joints, shocks, shock bushings, etc) and the rear shocks & shock bushings.  A 22 year old high mileage truck like yours likely has a lot of worn and age degraded components.    

[Steph and Dud B]

First time I've ever heard anyone say their Oliver was swaying, not to mention with a 2500 (if anyone else has, please link the thread). Somethings up. As others said, check the truck suspension then try towing without the Anderson. 

[jd1923]

11 hours ago, John E Davies said:

Before you start messing with springs, make sure the front end is tight.

What tire pressure are you running? I hope not 80 psi F/R. That will make the ride really hard and squirrelly. John Davies

Suspension work and brake jobs are a specialty of mine. See pic of the front-end restoration I worked on our Class-C, an '03 Ford E-450 chassis, all new Moog ball joints, steering, Super Springs, Hellwig sway bars, and Bilstein shocks. So yeah, I need to go through this new truck once the weather cools down some.

I'm ashamed to report, that I received the Oliver with 80 PSI, knew it was wrong, but then read on a few websites that trailers should be at the max pressure. So, I had a weak moment and thought more pressure is better than less and we drove our first trip at max pressure. (I read John's post about tire pressure after we returned.) Reading John's answer this morning, I'm thinking that this is likely all there was wrong, making my "ride really hard and squirrelly" not truly trailer sway, just squirrelly. 

I already dropped the pressure to 60 PSI and I'm thinking to bring in down to 48. Yes, proper pressure will certainly make it track better on the road. Next time I hook up, I will measure TV ride height before and after to see if the rear truly sags. I'll be happy to ditch the Anderson. I'll pull all the parts eventually and save some more weight. Thank you, John and others who commented. 

[jd1923]

12 hours ago, John E Davies said:

You do definitely need better seats. Take a look at the excellent Corbeau suspension seats with adjustable backs. John Davies

John, you must have really disliked your Ram seats! I drove an '03 Laramie for 18 years. It had the leather seats and I loved them. This '01 is a "Laramie/SLT" really the SLT cloth seats. They seem comfy to me and the interior on my truck is perfect, looks more like 4 years old than 22. Will be keeping these as-is!

[ChrisMI]

I think you mentioned the truck drove better with a trailer attached. My guess is the front end parts are really worn. The extra 1k lbs from the Cummins really accelerates this process. New shocks would be a good idea as well with the truck so old.  Jack up a corner and grab the tire.  If you need help determining what parts are bad watch a few YouTube videos. Tire pressure is not the problem here…

[John E Davies]

My ‘06 Laramie 3500 leather seats were OK for short trips, but not for cross country when combined with the harsh ride on choppy surfaces,  But nether my wife nor I are at all tolerant of bad rides, we have always owned premium vehicles with great seats. These helped a lot, but did not help fix a lot of faults with the truck..

https://corbeau.com/baja-rs/

PS, in a full sized HD truck they are incredibly @#$&*! difficult to get into to get into, they have really deep side bolsters. But they are ohhhh so comfy on a ten hour trip.

John Davies

Spokane WA

[dewdev]

2 hours ago, jd1923 said:

Suspension work and brake jobs are a specialty of mine. See pic of the front-end restoration I worked on our Class-C, an '03 Ford E-450 chassis, all new Moog ball joints, steering, Super Springs, Hellwig sway bars, and Bilstein shocks. So yeah, I need to go through this new truck once the weather cools down some.

I'm ashamed to report, that I received the Oliver with 80 PSI, knew it was wrong, but then read on a few websites that trailers should be at the max pressure. So, I had a weak moment and thought more pressure is better than less and we drove our first trip at max pressure. (I read John's post about tire pressure after we returned.) Reading John's answer this morning, I'm thinking that this is likely all there was wrong, making my "ride really hard and squirrelly" not truly trailer sway, just squirrelly. 

I already dropped the pressure to 60 PSI and I'm thinking to bring in down to 48. Yes, proper pressure will certainly make it track better on the road. Next time I hook up, I will measure TV ride height before and after to see if the rear truly sags. I'll be happy to ditch the Anderson. I'll pull all the parts eventually and save some more weight. Thank you, John and others who commented. 

jd1923:

FYI, Oliver TT is now recommending 55 psi in the Oliver tires. The first year I owned the OTT, I ran at 80 psi. Things were a little stiff. I now have 60 psi in the Ollie tires and the ride is smooth as can be.

[jd1923]

I was just out washing the Ollie. I had pressure washed it when we got home with all that road dirt, but it's still dirty. It's so hot out, I only got the roof washed and dried and will do the rest tomorrow. I did take a minute to remove the Anderson, everything but the frame mounts for now. That's a relief. 

I'll go with the OTT suggested 55 PSI for now, even though the load tables say you can run as low as 45. 80 PSI does make the trailer skate around a bit, squirrely is right. The TV likely has worn ball joints. I know the tests. When I have a bad ball joint, I replace all of them, bushings and other parts along the way. This way, I don't have to do the labor again, and should get 10 years worry free out of a full rebuild. Shocks, yes certainly if they're original or worn-out replacements. Thanks, everybody!

[SeaDawg]

I have zero problems with driving an older truck. Mine is a 2005,  and we've owned it since new.

But, it's regularly checked by our mechanic (now a family friend), and I trust his judgment.  I'm not interested anymore in crawling around under the truck or trailer. I used to think it was fun. Not anymore. 

I agree with the others. I suspect your problem lies with some deferred maintenance from previous owner, and you shouldn't (imo) need or even use an Anderson with that front heavy diesel. 

I'll bet at least the shocks are tired, if not the springs, if you're getting a big sag hooked up. I replaced mine , and it made a huge difference. 

 

 

[SeaDawg]

Btw, our tie rods needed replacement at about 150k on our dodge ram 1500.  Could also be part of your issues. 

[Mike and Carol]

10 hours ago, Steph and Dud B said:

First time I've ever heard anyone say their Oliver was swaying, not to mention with a 2500 (if anyone else has, please link the thread). Somethings up. As others said, check the truck suspension then try towing without the Anderson. 

We’ve towed about 40K miles with a Ram 2500, no Andersen, no sway.  We also towed 50K miles with Ram 1500s, with Andersen, also no sway.

[jd1923]

I'll likely rebuild the front-end, check the brakes and shocks this fall. This truck is totally solid and after buying Oliver, I had a $20K budget for our TV. I will reach my budget, after buying all the suspension parts I need! Look for my Audio/Visual system upgrade post soon. I did this upgrade the first week we owned our Oliver.

We decided, we are going to call ours Oliver, not Ollie like many of you. Think of Eva Gabor, saying Oliver, in the iconic show Green Acres! "Land spreadin' out so far and wide, keep Manhattan just give me that countryside." I love that phrase and it changed my life when I first heard it. This verse tells much about the RV/camping experience. 

We travel mainly over the winter, including camping at 3-4 Pickleball tournaments a year. Thinking to meet up with all, y'alls in Texas for the solar eclipse, we love Texas! We lived and worked in the Austin Texas area from 2006-2014. We've been to Fredericksburg 4-5 times, took family there! It's awesome, going for German draft beer and food. Schnitzel and spaetzle! OMG! And my son won a major tennis championship at Kerrville, great memories, and my favorite guitar shop is in Boerne TX, Hearts Home Acoustics!!!

Of course, I'll post my suspension rebuild project in the Towing an Oliver forum. I really love this Oliver TT forum already. You guys are great and respond with good advice quickly. I've only been here 5 weeks and plan to be fully involved here. Thanks

[SeaDawg]

Oh, crap. I won't be able to get that Green Acres  theme song out of my head for days now! (One of my faves, as a kid, on black and white rv, in the country.)

I truly think when you go through your truck and replace needed parts, you'll be a very happy clam, sans Andersen. 

Don't make yourself sick, working in this sw heatwave. Not worth it. Cooler weather is coming. 

You have a great trailer, and a great truck. 

[Mike and Carol]

24 minutes ago, jd1923 said:

And my son won a major tennis championship at Kerrville, great memories, and my favorite guitar shop is in Boerne TX, Hearts Home Acoustics!!!

Boerne is our town.  Hearts Home is a nice shop.  My brother owns a restaurant on Main Street (Hauptstrasse) just a block off the town square.  We frequent Kerrville and Fredericksburg quite often.  Mike

[jd1923]

1 hour ago, Mike and Carol said:

Boerne is our town.  Hearts Home is a nice shop.  My brother owns a restaurant on Main Street (Hauptstrasse) just a block off the town square.  We frequent Kerrville and Fredericksburg quite often.  Mike

Thanks Mike, if we weren't living in Prescott AZ, we'd want to be in Boerne, TX! No better state to work in and bring up a family than Texas. Many great spots in Arizona, more retirement locations. Boerne is a very special central Texas hill country town, what a great community!

Say hi to Chaney, for me next time you wander into Hearts Home Acoustics. I bought my first Collings dread from him, and he taught me how to play Bach's Sleepers Awake on classical guitar. If there is a day, I cannot play this song, I will have to hang up my guitar after 50 years! It was about 2008 or so, when I found Boerne to visit Hearts Home, and we've been back 3 times. Will visit you and the hill country again next year for the solar eclipse meet. I could not believe the meet location. What a find, we're going, campsite or not, for our first long-distance Oliver trip!

[Mike and Carol]

9 hours ago, jd1923 said:

Thanks Mike, if we weren't living in Prescott AZ, we'd want to be in Boerne, TX! No better state to work in and bring up a family than Texas. Many great spots in Arizona, more retirement locations. Boerne is a very special central Texas hill country town, what a great community!

We almost retired in AZ having lived in Sierra Vista a couple of times.  Our daughter graduated from NAU in Flagstaff and we have good friends in Payson, Tucson and Sierra Vista.  We actually prefer AZ weather of TX weather, especially during this heat wave!  Mike

[BBL]

On 7/17/2023 at 7:31 AM, Mike and Carol said:

having lived in Sierra Vista a couple of times

Visited SV many times while in the USAF and Northrop Grumman working special projects. I like it there but I prefer Tucson (south, near Davis-Monthan AFB). 

Brian

[jd1923]

On 7/16/2023 at 11:54 AM, ChrisMI said:

I think you mentioned the truck drove better with a trailer attached. My guess is the front-end parts are really worn. 

Chris, and your guess was certainly correct! When I said, "the truck drove better with a trailer attached" I meant from my history with Dodge Ram 2500 HD Cummins. I owned a 2003 (gen3), from new 'til just a year ago, had 236K miles, and it pulled horse and stock trailers, and even a 14K lb. racecar trailer!

With my new TV (2001 gen2 Dodge 2500 Cummins), I only have a few hundred miles experience. It drives great around town but did drift some on I-40 with the Oliver attached. The weight of the Cummins likely keeps it planted, then add a trailer and the front end gets loose in its current condition.

Jacked a front wheel up today and did the crowbar ball joint test. You can hear a clunk and the lower showed movement (John Davies knew this). Then I removed the wheel, and all the suspension is original and worn. The pic shows worn & torn upper ball joint, sway bar link bushing and tie rod end. Brakes were just serviced. I expected to rebuild the front-end at some point. 

Still VERY happy with my TV purchase. For <20% the cost of a new one, this clean Cummins starts with one click of the key, shifts nicely (which can be an issue with some years) the body is excellent, the interior is perfect, like how did they drive 161K miles without sitting on the driver's seat! Come Oct-Nov in nice fall weather, I'll get it up on blocks and rebuild the suspension & steering, with all new parts.

[MAX Burner]

45 minutes ago, jd1923 said:

I meant from my history with Dodge Ram 2500 HD Cummins. I owned a 2003 (gen3), from new 'til just a year ago, had 236K miles

FYI:  Our previous TV was a 2015 3500 Tradesman/Cummins and sold it last year for $4k more than we paid new after 155k miles!  Great TV!

[jd1923]

Nice Art, that's a HD truck! Sold my '03 for half of what I paid new in 2004, after 236K miles needing a whole lotta work! 50% depreciation in 18 years, not bad. The buyer understood, and we all know what new trucks cost. After buying our Oliver, the TV purchase was on a tight budget. Just looked at Rock Auto for suspension parts and they are double the price of what I paid 2 years ago for another truck!

Your Tundra and I believe JD's LC200 have the powerful Toyota 5.7L (both awesome trucks). If I had found a Lexus LX570, instead of our wonderful '08 GX470, then we would not have needed the Ram. Ah shucks, too bad I have to have two trucks. It's funny, both of my trucks have 162K miles. This baby (after all my work) is really too pretty to be a TV anyway and the Dodge looks better pulling our Oliver.