Refrigerator Cooling Fan

[jd1923]

In reviewing another post on an Isotherm cooling issue, I realized I should test the condition of the fan in our Oliver. Ours is the original absorption style OEM install of a 2016 hull. It has the oddest thing, a power switch on the light panel. Why a switch, given it should be thermostatically controlled? The ON/OFF switch does not seem to do anything. In fact, I have never heard it run in the 30 days we've been on the road over the last year.

I went to test for 12VDC. The red wire has a spade connection that I can get to. The blue wire disappears above the fan into the foil taping, looking like it goes internal to some control. Given that's the ground side, I thought I would write here before cutting into it to test for voltage or to bench test the old fan.

@ScubaRx likely knows how this is designed. How about some of you with 2016 models, like @topgun2 hull 117, or @Wayfinder hull 110 (I know I'm forgetting somebody). Does your hull have this setup like this?

[rideandfly]

John,

Our 2015 LE2 has a thermal switch in addition to the panel switch. Remember seeing it while working on Ollie, but don't remember the exact location. Our fan will turn on when it's hot, the panel switch will turn it on/off when the thermal switch is closed.

It's this style switch:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CVL972NC/ref=sspa_dk_detail_0?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B0CVL972NC&pd_rd_w=YtCZT&content-id=amzn1.sym.8c2f9165-8e93-42a1-8313-73d3809141a2&pf_rd_p=8c2f9165-8e93-42a1-8313-73d3809141a2&pf_rd_r=W3TQ15WD17HZ87NXG0PQ&pd_rd_wg=jbirw&pd_rd_r=0704ce1d-0f1c-4a7c-9ad4-84eb24a1bbf4&s=industrial&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9kZXRhaWw

 

Edited July 4 by rideandfly

[topgun2]

Sorry but I'm in the middle of preparing to leave for the Rockies.

However - the reason for the switch is so that you can turn the fan off if the slight noise it emits bothers you while trying to sleep.

Both Mossemi and I have replaced the original fan due to bearing failures in the fan and Mossemi also replaced the thermal switch.

Hope this helps at least a little.

Bill

p.s.  there are posts here on the Forum about both of these repairs.

Edited July 4 by topgun2
added detail

[mossemi]

21 hours ago, jd1923 said:

It has the oddest thing, a power switch on the light panel. Why a switch, given it should be thermostatically controlled? The ON/OFF switch does not seem to do anything.

Hull 193 also has a fan switch on the main switch panel in the entry area.  It is placed in the 12v B+ supply path to the fan.  There is also an inline thermostat on the output side of the switch.  My B- travels from the fan to the bottom left of the refrigerator compartment and connects to the 12v ground of the refrigerator.  My thermostat was originally attached to the right end of the horizontal condenser fins just below the red B+ wire disappearing on the right side of the picture in your post.  If you have a fan control thermostat it should be located on the red wire.  
 

Mossey

[Wayfinder]

Yes, #110 has the exact setup pictured above.  Mike (forget last name) at the AL rally told me how to test my fan and power leading to it.  I found that no matter what, there is no power going to the fan.  I tested the switch and it appears to work as expected.  I have not bothered to pull out the fridge, and/or microwave, to figure out there the disconnect is yet.  I've lived with the fan off since I owned the trailer.  I will be asking Oliver which to pull out first to trace the wire.  I figure it's the fridge.  Again, not knowing where it's connected in the cabinet.  I wonder if it ever worked, even for the first owner.

 

[DavePhelps]

I had the same issue with my aux cooling fan not coming on. Once again, the issue was a loose connection. That blue wire coming off the fan ends up coming out on the left side of the lower refir access panel. Look for the silver tape on the left side of the pic. There it combines with another yellow wire and inserts in to a terminal block (I believe that is what these are called?). In my case the blue wire was loose in the terminal block so I carefully braided the two wires together and reinstalled them in to the block. I bypassed the temp switch to verify all was well and the fan fired up, which it was not doing before. Now whether or not the temp switch is also bad is another story. I hope to test it next trip out. But check that blue wire connection at the terminal block! Good luck.

Dave

 

   

Edited July 5 by DavePhelps

[jd1923]

17 hours ago, mossemi said:

Hull 193 also has a fan switch on the main switch panel in the entry area.  It is placed in the 12v B+ supply path to the fan.  There is also an inline thermostat on the output side of the switch.  My B- travels from the fan to the bottom left of the refrigerator compartment and connects to the 12v ground of the refrigerator.  My thermostat was originally attached to the right end of the horizontal condenser fins just below the red B+ wire disappearing on the right side of the picture in your post.  If you have a fan control thermostat it should be located on the red wire. Mossey

Thanks to all who have replied, very helpful! Mossey, this is very clear. Made me think yeah Duh, I can catch a ground in the lower section. Seeing the thermal switch makes me think the female spade connector on the red fan wire is connecting to it on the right side of the top opening. I will have time by today or tomorrow for testing the fan. Wonder if I can use a blow dryer to activate the thermal switch. I'll let you know.

[jd1923]

5 minutes ago, DavePhelps said:

I bypassed the temp switch to verify all was well and the fan fired up, which it was not doing before. Now whether or not the temp switch is also bad is another story.

This is a good idea too. Thanks Dave!

[jd1923]

16 hours ago, Wayfinder said:

Yes, #110 has the exact setup pictured above.  Mike (forget last name) at the AL rally told me how to test my fan and power leading to it.  I found that no matter what, there is no power going to the fan.  I tested the switch and it appears to work as expected.  I have not bothered to pull out the fridge, and/or microwave, to figure out there the disconnect is yet.  I've lived with the fan off since I owned the trailer.  I will be asking Oliver which to pull out first to trace the wire.  I figure it's the fridge.  Again, not knowing where it's connected in the cabinet.  I wonder if it ever worked, even for the first owner.

Chris, since you're visiting OTT very soon. You could just have them test and fix yours quickly! There should not be a reason to pull the fridge.

[jd1923]

Did some testing today. It's only 95 out, must be 115 down in Phoenix, yuk!

Yes, as @rideandfly and @mossemi mentioned there is a simple thermal switch screwed into the top RHS of the condenser. It was difficult to get a reading before the switch on the bottom end, so I pulled both female spade connectors.

Voltage readings were odd, most prevalent number was about 4.3V and it read as high as 5.5V and sometimes lower too, weird. No where near 12V and this is a 12V fan. I made a spade jump wire to connect the fan, bypassing the thermal switch. The fan would not run at all even giving it a quick push start. The switch from the light switch panel was working, going from 4.3V to zero and back with the switch.

I used the ground from the junction below with the heavy gauge yellow and the light blue wire to the fan. It looked to be connected properly as @DavePhelps had suggested checking. Testing B+ and B- at the junction box read 13.6V which is the same number the Victron app shows for the house batteries. What the heck? What would produce 4V or 5V and not 12V? Is the wiring so old and worn it has become one big resistor? Hope not, which could cause a fire.

So, the easy fix for $90 is to replace this fan with the Titan or Beech Lane dual fans that other owners have done. I would not be able to use the switched power since it is not delivering 12V. I could run new wire from the junction below. In AUTO mode do these turn on-n-off with temp? I would mount the control box behind one of the panels, not in the upper cabinet as one post showed unless it can be fished there w/o going through the microwave cabinet, as I just insulated that cabinet for an oven. Can the ON/OFF temp settings be adjusted on these? I would hate to bypass the switch. Maybe I can run +12V up to the switch panel and back down. Any ideas are appreciated as always! Thanks

[mossemi]

15 hours ago, jd1923 said:

I would not be able to use the switched power since it is not delivering 12V. I could run new wire from the junction below. In AUTO mode do these turn on-n-off with temp?

The fan and switch are the only active components in that circuit, so I would test their functionality with new wire.  When I replaced my non working fan, I found the 3500 RPM operating speed a little noisy so I added a 12v PWM speed controller to slow it down.  That's a possible hidden feature that test wiring would eliminate.

I do leave my fan switch on 365 and let the thermostat control the fan operation.  I guess that qualifies as AUTO mode.

Mossey

[Ronbrink]

15 hours ago, jd1923 said:

So, the easy fix for $90 is to replace this fan with the Titan or Beech Lane dual fans that other owners have done. I would not be able to use the switched power since it is not delivering 12V. I could run new wire from the junction below. In AUTO mode do these turn on-n-off with temp? I would mount the control box behind one of the panels, not in the upper cabinet as one post showed unless it can be fished there w/o going through the microwave cabinet, as I just insulated that cabinet for an oven. Can the ON/OFF temp settings be adjusted on these? I would hate to bypass the switch. Maybe I can run +12V up to the switch panel and back down. Any ideas are appreciated as always! Thanks

I recently installed the Beech Lane dual fans and was able to run wires from the interior cabinet, above the microwave/Norcold, down and behind both units for the fan control panel/harness and power connections in the upper and lower exterior vent/cover areas, respectively. Access for fishing the wires required folding back the cabinet’s protective mat liner, removing the round access port cover and detaching the AC outlet box (after turning power off at the breaker) that the microwave plugs into, as well as drilling a hole (see pics). Additionally, I had to remove the foil tape and angled aluminum plate that occurs behind the upper exterior vent/cover to enable the wire fishing process; specifically, the fiberglass divide between the two units inhibits passage wherein a visual and physical interaction may be necessary. Regarding your wall switch, if you could get 12V power of appropriate gauge wire to it, then power wires would not have to be fished down to the lower reaches of the fridge for connection. 

Steps taken in prep to fish wires. There was a passageway found inside the outlet cutout to the lower right, other side of the interior cabinet wall from the microwave power cord, leading to the upper exterior vent/cover area

 

Control panel wires prepped for fishing.

Wire loom installed during stages of fish process.

 

Routing completed to upper exterior vent/cover area.

Interior cabinet buttoned up!

 

Quick connects used at 12V power connections.

 

[MAX Burner]

2 hours ago, mossemi said:

I do leave my fan switch on 365

Same here, Mike....  love the "auto" mode on just about anything - so long as it works correctly.  HA!

[John Dorrer]

9 hours ago, Ronbrink said:

I recently installed the Beech Lane dual fans and was able to run wires from the interior cabinet, above the microwave/Norcold, down and behind both units for the fan control panel/harness and power connections in the upper and lower exterior vent/cover areas, respectively. Access for fishing the wires required folding back the cabinet’s protective mat liner, removing the round access port cover and detaching the AC outlet box (after turning power off at the breaker) that the microwave plugs into, as well as drilling a hole (see pics). Additionally, I had to remove the foil tape and angled aluminum plate that occurs behind the upper exterior vent/cover to enable the wire fishing process; specifically, the fiberglass divide between the two units inhibits passage wherein a visual and physical interaction may be necessary. Regarding your wall switch, if you could get 12V power of appropriate gauge wire to it, then power wires would not have to be fished down to the lower reaches of the fridge for connection. 

Steps taken in prep to fish wires. There was a passageway found inside the outlet cutout to the lower right, other side of the interior cabinet wall from the microwave power cord, leading to the upper exterior vent/cover area

 

Control panel wires prepped for fishing.

Wire loom installed during stages of fish process.

 

Routing completed to upper exterior vent/cover area.

Interior cabinet buttoned up!

 

Quick connects used at 12V power connections.

 

Thinking you could wire to the street side awning switch, if you don't have the street side awning.

[Ronbrink]

5 minutes ago, John Dorrer said:

Thinking you could wire to the street side awning switch, if you don't have the street side awning.

I have is a blank where that switch would typically go. That said, one could add a switch to serve purpose of powering the fans and control panel. However, the control panel acts as a switch in similar manner. 

[jd1923]

9 hours ago, Ronbrink said:

I recently installed the Beech Lane dual fans and was able to run wires from the interior cabinet, above the microwave/Norcold, down and behind both units for the fan control panel/harness and power connections in the upper and lower exterior vent/cover areas, respectively...

Makes sense and thank you. After being in the microwave cabinet for our oven install, it seemed you could get around it as you did.

Question: do you use the Beech Lane controller much? Wondering is after you get it where you want it, does it need to change. Hoping you don't need to mess with it much, and if so i may install it behind the lower vent opening.

I'm thinking of running new 14 AWG automotive wire (I have spools) from the junction down below (mine has a junction that I do not see you your pic, I will show later) up to the switch in the light panel and then back down to the upper vent area for the fans. This way I still have the switch, all new wiring and the junction down below looks like 8 AWG, at least 10, and it showed 13.6V.

I like the specs on the Beech Lane better than the Titan and there are so many to choose from. It looks big, but the height should just fit. I like the lower 1800 RPM and the 25 dB rating and IP65 rating. Thanks again!

[Ronbrink]

10 hours ago, jd1923 said:

Question: do you use the Beech Lane controller much? Wondering is after you get it where you want it, does it need to change. Hoping you don't need to mess with it much, and if so i may install it behind the lower vent opening.

I cannot provide an answer since the Oliver has not been used since this mod. I did however, want easy access to the control panel from the inside, thus the upper cabinet install. I have read where some leave their’s On continuously in Auto mode, I plan to have it turned Off when in storage. Never attempted a link, but can provide a pic of a post you can search. If you haven’t seen, It is very informative and discusses use of a switch at the entry panel, as well as user impressions and comments.
 

[Ronbrink]

On 7/7/2024 at 8:06 PM, jd1923 said:

I'm thinking of running new 14 AWG automotive wire (I have spools) from the junction down below (mine has a junction that I do not see you your pic, I will show later) up to the switch in the light panel and then back down to the upper vent area for the fans. This way I still have the switch, all new wiring and the junction down below looks like 8 AWG, at least 10, and it showed 13.6V.

I am familiar with the small terminal block (“junction”) you are referring to, mine uses spade connectors to make power wire connections to the Norcold’s power box (seen with the white and yellow labels in pic). In my install, I disconnected the two power fed lines Oliver routed (10 AWG) into the lower exterior fridge compartment, being the two wires shown wrapped in electrical tape. Rather than cutting these wires to make a splice, I choose to strip a 1/4” length of insulation off each, whereby the wire strands could be separated enough to loop 6” pieces of wire (red +/yellow-) through, that also had insulation removed (5/8”) at its’ midpoint. Once inserted, these wires were simply folded in half, then twisted to join at the bare wire junctures and subsequently soldered, heat-shrink treated and taped. Then these two added power leads were respectively connected to the control panel and fan wires via quick-connect terminal crimp fittings. I did however, have to splice a short piece of larger gauge wire onto the control panel wire ends because they were too small for the QC fittings used. The 14 AWG wire you have should be of sufficient size for your fan mod. 

Edited July 12 by Ronbrink

[jd1923]

It's hard to find a simple wire gauge chart. This one is not bad. 14 AWG can handle 10A on short runs <10 and 5A up to 20FT. I did buy the Beech Lane fan. It will get here before the weekend, so I hope to work this install then.

The spec is 7.2W which translates to only 0.6A in 12 VDC. According to the chart, you could use as small as 18 AWG. Most DIY installers go with heavier than required when cost is less a concern.

For me, I've had several spools of 14 AWG, one 12AWG, a spool of thermostat cable and some others from a commercial project back in the 90s. I've used this inventory on dozens of auto/home/RV installations ever since. Wonder what shelf life is on stranded copper? It still looks like new; copper is bright, insulation supple. What does copper cost today? Likely 5x what we spent 30 years ago.

[jd1923]

Worked on this Saturday afternoon and an hour today to button it up!

I started working it like some installs here, and I was able to poke a steel fish-tape from the back of the pantry down and right through the foil-wrapped Styrofoam to the exterior fridge opening. Then I thought about routing the wires down and realized if I fish the wires down about 20" further back at the rear of the fridge, the wires could go straight down to the bottom in one line. The bottom of the close side of the fridge is where the LP burner is located, and you would have to divert your wiring somewhere.

The whole Beech Lane wire harness and a pair of switch wires (yellow/stripped red) fished through after cutting the opening shown with a rounded chisel and a few tugs.

The temperature sensor taped to the upper incline.

Switch legs run up and the across the back of the upper kitchen cabinet. Yes, removing the 110V outlet makes fishing easier. One leg is connected to the ground at the exterior base of the fridge and the other to the fan ground. I taped this switch prior to reinserting.

The fan comes with clips to mount to the exterior vent cover (not a great idea for several reasons). I modified the fan assembly so that the cabling would be captured by the frame and tied down. Notice the screw holes left and right drilled larger for mounting to the ceiling of the vent opening.

The fan was first rubber-mounted with one screw bottom center in place of a small screw that held the two fans together. Drilled pilot holes and screwed up in each top corner. Notice the 1/2" automotive wire loom LHS that holds the harness and switch wiring.

Bottom vent opening showing the junction B+/B- source, with harness +/- connected here and taped.

Control panel in upper kitchen cabinet, mounted with 3M VHB. No interior drilling harness just hides behind rubber floormat. Can reach in nicely or move the tea kettle if you must. Everything tested positively, the ON/OFF switch on the OTT light panel, manual mode with fan speed adjustments, and auto mode temp settings matched my RUUVi sensor readings. It was hot in the afternoon and then a front came through and dropped temps 20 degrees. The fan turned itself off and when I set temp two clicks lower it resumed. 

Thanks @Ronbrink for your help! The Beech Lane product is great, works well, fits the opening fully, and is quiet even on 100%. When it's running, and you're inside with the entrance door shut, you will not hear it. If you do not have the OEM built-in ON/OFF switch, don't worry you should not need one. My panel has one, so I felt obligated to make it function again. No complaints from this old installer! 🤣

Edited July 15 by jd1923

[CRM]

8 hours ago, jd1923 said:

Worked on this Saturday afternoon and an hour today to button it up!

I started working it like some installs here, and I was able to poke a steel fish-tape from the back of the pantry down and right through the foil-wrapped Styrofoam to the exterior fridge opening. Then I thought about routing the wires down and realized if I fish the wires down about 20" further back at the rear of the fridge, the wires could go straight down to the bottom in one line. The bottom of the close side of the fridge is where the LP burner is located, and you would have to divert your wiring somewhere.

The whole Beech Lane wire harness and a pair of switch wires (yellow/stripped red) fished through after cutting the opening shown with a rounded chisel and a few tugs.

The temperature sensor taped to the upper incline.

Switch legs run up and the across the back of the upper kitchen cabinet. Yes, removing the 110V outlet makes fishing easier. One leg is connected to the ground at the exterior base of the fridge and the other to the fan ground. I taped this switch prior to reinserting.

The fan comes with clips to mount to the exterior vent cover (not a great idea for several reasons). I modified the fan assembly so that the cabling would be captured by the frame and tied down. Notice the screw holes left and right drilled larger for mounting to the ceiling of the vent opening.

The fan was first rubber-mounted with one screw bottom center in place of a small screw that held the two fans together. Drilled pilot holes and screwed up in each top corner. Notice the 1/2" automotive wire loom LHS that holds the harness and switch wiring.

Bottom vent opening showing the junction B+/B- source, with harness +/- connected here and taped.

Control panel in upper kitchen cabinet, mounted with 3M VHB. No interior drilling harness just hides behind rubber floormat. Can reach in nicely or move the tea kettle if you must. Everything tested positively, the ON/OFF switch on the OTT light panel, manual mode with fan speed adjustments, and auto mode temp settings matched my RUUVi sensor readings. It was hot in the afternoon and then a front came through and dropped temps 20 degrees. The fan turned itself off and when I set temp two clicks lower it resumed. 

Thanks @Ronbrink for your help! The Beech Lane product is great, works well, fits the opening fully, and is quiet even on 100%. When it's running, and you're inside with the entrance door shut, you will not hear it. If you do not have the OEM built-in ON/OFF switch, don't worry you should not need one. My panel has one, so I felt obligated to make it function again. No complaints from this old installer! 🤣

Nice job! Adding dual fans was a game changer for us. Where we're currently camping it's 90+ outside and our packed fridge is staying in the mid 30's on AC without any problem. It would sometimes get into the danger zone before the addition of fans.

[mossemi]

On 7/4/2024 at 8:29 PM, Wayfinder said:

Yes, #110 has the exact setup pictured above.  Mike (forget last name) at the AL rally told me how to test my fan and power leading to it.  I found that no matter what, there is no power going to the fan.  I tested the switch and it appears to work as expected.  I have not bothered to pull out the fridge, and/or microwave, to figure out there the disconnect is yet.  I've lived with the fan off since I owned the trailer.  I will be asking Oliver which to pull out first to trace the wire.  I figure it's the fridge.  Again, not knowing where it's connected in the cabinet.  I wonder if it ever worked, even for the first owner.

 

Think of the 12V B+ and B- as 2 of the wires in a CAT5 cable, if data doesn’t get from the server to my desktop, what is the IT Department going to do about it.  Verify the output of the server and the input at the jack in my cube.  Look for the break or run a new CAT5 cable.  
Your picture below has been marked up to show where the 12V power connects to the refrigerator in my Ollie.  Yours may or may not be the same.  Does your fan switch have power in and out?  If so and the power does not’+**get to the fan, I would run a temporary B+ jumper from the output of the fan switch to the in put of the fan.  Does the fan work with the jumper?  If so, there is a break in the in the original B+.  I don’t think that the original B+ wire is at fault and it is probably the thermostat switch which is located in between the on/off switch and the fan as @jd1923 mentioned.  Try following the B+ wire from the fan back to the on/off switch, you should be able to locate the thermostat.  When you locate the thermostat, disconnect it and put a jumper between the input and output of the thermostat.  My original thermostat had male spade connections and the jumper I used was about 6" of wire with female spade connectors crimped on.  If the on/off switch now works, you can replace the thermostat or just use the on/off switch to control the fan, although a thermostat works much better and saves 12V power.  And forget about removing the refrigerator or  microwave, just run new wire.

Mike Mossey

 

Edited September 1 by mossemi

[Wayfinder]

Mike, thanks for the confirmation where your fan now gets power. I was also wondering if that location would be enough juice for fans and fridge components. 

And No!  There is no power making it to the inside fan switch. No biggy now that I know I can drop new wires to that location you circled. That's extremely helpful. Thank you so much. I have that beach fan in my cart, but did not pull the trigger yet.  

Also, after reading the service manual on the fridge and testing the thermistor, and placing it in the correct location in the fridge, I'm currently at 35.5 degrees in the fridge at 9:30 at night. The fan is currently off. This is the coldest I've seen it in a long time, and with nothing in the fridge. 

I think I have confirmed that lamp #5 in the "eyebrow" is faulty, I've set the fridge from #4 lamp to #5 and no lights (lamp indicators) on the eyebrow are lit up now, but the fridge still gets cooler. So far, so good.

We'll see how much longer this fridge will last. Oddly enough I found the Domestic Service manual pretty straight forward and easy to read. 

I'm sorry for breaking any "Manly-Man rules" by reading the instructions. It will not happen often, I promise. 😂 

I will site the Man's Prayer now from the Red Green Show. 

Edited July 29 by Wayfinder

[Wayfinder]

The new placement of the thermistor has done the trick.  It's on the very last cooling fin inside the fridge and moved to the top.  I woke up this morning with 29.5 degrees inside the fridge.  I've not seen that ever.  And that with no fan running last night.  And the #5 lamp bulb was illuminated when I checked on it this morning.  Now moving down to #4 setting to observe the temp drop.  

Edited July 29 by Wayfinder

[mossemi]

10 hours ago, Wayfinder said:

And No!  There is no power making it to the inside fan switch.

Have you opened the 6" round hatch plate in the cabinet above the microwave and checked the switch wiring?

Mossey