Battleborn Battery Safety Issue

[John Dorrer]

I found this picture on another RV site, no comments, no link. I did some sluething and found the YouTube Video.

 

Go to YouTube and search "Battleborn 12-volt battery issue" and look for the video with this picture.

 

For those with Battleborn Lithiums, check your batteries. Be careful. This appears to have the potential for something very serious.

 

UPDATE:  Video added

 

Edited Thursday at 02:37 PM by John Dorrer
Updated Comment

[Steph and Dud B]

Wow! That is bad engineering. Here's a direct link to the video: 

 

[Patriot]

@John Dorrer Thanks for posting this dangerous safety concern. 

I know there are several owners of BB’s here on the forum and they will really appreciate this heads up.

edit - This could really become a PR nightmare for BB, lets hope they get out in front of it super fast. 

 

Edited Thursday at 04:54 PM by Patriot

[rideandfly]

Just called BattleBorn and left a message for technical support. Had a BattleBorn battery in Ollie for years without issues. I have had such good performance out of BattleBorn batteries, just purchased two more 100AH batteries during the Black Friday sales event. Will see what they say and post.

[rideandfly]

BattleBorn will send me an informative document I can post here with their permission. They have sold over 400,000 batteries.

[rideandfly]

Here's the reply from BattleBorn technical today:

"Thank you for contacting us. We appreciate the opportunity to provide technical context regarding the engineering and safety of your system. We understand there are conversations circulating externally, and we want to support you with facts about how our products are engineered and certified.

Regarding the concerns you raised:

Battle Born Batteries have been available in the market for more than a decade. During that time, we have delivered well over 400,000 batteries into service across all major markets. Our solutions have undergone extensive third-party testing to UL standards, we operate an open production process in the United States, and we routinely provide tours, published videos, and engineering transparency. These outcomes and the long track record of safe operation speak for themselves.

To address questions that have recently surfaced about terminal heating and fastener design, it is important to highlight that what some observers view as a failure is a safety device working exactly as intended. The aluminum nut used in our 100Ah packs’ positive terminal is a purpose-built thermal failsafe. It is engineered so that the plastic deforms and disconnects when excess heat is present at the terminal.

This protects the internal cell structure by interrupting the current, preventing further heat buildup and thermal runaway. This safeguard exists for conditions created in the field such as loose external connections, systems operating outside specification, or uncontrolled short circuits. It is one of several intentional protective mechanisms within our packs and is necessary for our UL Listing Standards.

The key takeaway is this: This design prevents heat from migrating into the cell stack, meaning it is designed to stop conditions that could otherwise create a thermal runaway event. It works as a sacrificial barrier that takes the heat event on behalf of the cells. That is the exact purpose of the feature.

In cases where a pack has already experienced misuse or improper installation, visible damage at the terminal is typically the result of that safety mechanism activating. That does not mean the design is flawed. It means the protective feature served its purpose. The batteries we sell and support today use the same trusted and validated design that has been in successful field service for many years.

 

If you are currently experiencing a specific operational issue with your system, please reply with photos of your installation so we can assist you further."

 

Edited Thursday at 04:49 PM by rideandfly

[CRM]

12 minutes ago, rideandfly said:

To address questions that have recently surfaced about terminal heating and fastener design, it is important to highlight that what some observers view as a failure is a safety device working exactly as intended. The aluminum nut used in our 100Ah packs’ positive terminal is a purpose-built thermal failsafe. It is engineered so that the plastic deforms and disconnects when excess heat is present at the terminal.

This protects the internal cell structure by interrupting the current, preventing further heat buildup and thermal runaway. This safeguard exists for conditions created in the field such as loose external connections, systems operating outside specification, or uncontrolled short circuits. It is one of several intentional protective mechanisms within our packs and is necessary for our UL Listing Standards.

The key takeaway is this: This design prevents heat from migrating into the cell stack, meaning it is designed to stop conditions that could otherwise create a thermal runaway event. It works as a sacrificial barrier that takes the heat event on behalf of the cells. That is the exact purpose of the feature.

I'm no Electromechanical engineer, but there has to be a better way to protect a battery from thermal runaway. How are others doing it? It also seems as though their design doesn't work as intended (at least for the battery in the video). 

[John Dorrer]

1 hour ago, Patriot said:

@John Dorrer Thanks for posting this dangerous safety concern. 

I know there are several owners of BB’s here on the forum and they will really appreciate this heads up.

edit - This could really become a PR nightmare for BB, lets hope they get out in front of it super fast. 

 

When I watched the video I was dumb founded. The comments are unreal. People have been bringing this to Battleborn 's attention and their response to the owners has been,  " you must have damaged the batteries, your issue, not Battleborn 's. Wow.

Edited Thursday at 05:16 PM by John Dorrer
Typo

[rideandfly]

1 minute ago, CRM said:

I'm no Electromechanical engineer, but there has to be a better way to protect a battery from thermal runaway. How are others doing it? It also seems as though their design doesn't work as intended (at least for the battery in the video). 

I'm not a electrical or mechanic engineer. They said the BattleBorn system worked as intended in the case of this battery.

I'm happy they gave me this reply to post on the forum because I told them I am not able to get into the technical aspects of their product.

[Mike and Carol]

I have three of these batteries and they are fine, going on 5 years.  Did this guy bother to check with BB before he posted this video and told everyone using the batteries to stop using them?  If this was the danger he exclaims why is BB not recalling them or at least sending out warnings?  With 400,000 batteries delivered I would think a major safety issue would already be addressed to avoid the inevitable legal issues.  What am I missing?  Mike

[John Dorrer]

30 minutes ago, rideandfly said:

Here's the reply from BattleBorn technical today:

"Thank you for contacting us. We appreciate the opportunity to provide technical context regarding the engineering and safety of your system. We understand there are conversations circulating externally, and we want to support you with facts about how our products are engineered and certified.

Regarding the concerns you raised:

Battle Born Batteries have been available in the market for more than a decade. During that time, we have delivered well over 400,000 batteries into service across all major markets. Our solutions have undergone extensive third-party testing to UL standards, we operate an open production process in the United States, and we routinely provide tours, published videos, and engineering transparency. These outcomes and the long track record of safe operation speak for themselves.

To address questions that have recently surfaced about terminal heating and fastener design, it is important to highlight that what some observers view as a failure is a safety device working exactly as intended. The aluminum nut used in our 100Ah packs’ positive terminal is a purpose-built thermal failsafe. It is engineered so that the plastic deforms and disconnects when excess heat is present at the terminal.

This protects the internal cell structure by interrupting the current, preventing further heat buildup and thermal runaway. This safeguard exists for conditions created in the field such as loose external connections, systems operating outside specification, or uncontrolled short circuits. It is one of several intentional protective mechanisms within our packs and is necessary for our UL Listing Standards.

The key takeaway is this: This design prevents heat from migrating into the cell stack, meaning it is designed to stop conditions that could otherwise create a thermal runaway event. It works as a sacrificial barrier that takes the heat event on behalf of the cells. That is the exact purpose of the feature.

In cases where a pack has already experienced misuse or improper installation, visible damage at the terminal is typically the result of that safety mechanism activating. That does not mean the design is flawed. It means the protective feature served its purpose. The batteries we sell and support today use the same trusted and validated design that has been in successful field service for many years.

 

If you are currently experiencing a specific operational issue with your system, please reply with photos of your installation so we can assist you further."

 

How do they explain the amount of plastic burned, excessive heat, and cell damage?

 

We have an Oliver Owner on Facebook who is an electrical engineer. He was dumbfounded. 

 

I think Battleborn needs to hit this head on, and not just put out, what I perceive as a protect your "Ass" statement.

[rideandfly]

8 minutes ago, John Dorrer said:

How do they explain the amount of plastic burned, excessive heat, and cell damage?

 

We have an Oliver Owner on Facebook who is an electrical engineer. He was dumbfounded. 

 

I think Battleborn needs to hit this head on, and not just put out, what I perceive as a protect your "Ass" statement.

I recommend to anyone with additional questions to give BattleBorn a call to further understand their explanation.

[John Dorrer]

19 minutes ago, rideandfly said:

I recommend to anyone with additional questions to give BattleBorn a call to further understand their explanation.

I agree, but wonder why this just seemed to explode with the video. I have never watched that guy before, so I have no clue as to his background and knowledge.

[rideandfly]

2 minutes ago, John Dorrer said:

I agree, but wonder why this just seemed to explode with the video. I have never watched that guy before, so I have no clue as to his background and knowledge.

The guy that made the video is very knowledgeable about solar/electrical systems from what I have seen on YouTube and BattleBorn was aware of the video when I called them, but when they started telling me about their battery system, it was over my head 🙂, so I told them I preferred to post their written reply. 

 

 

[John Dorrer]

9 minutes ago, rideandfly said:

The guy that made the video is very knowledgeable about solar/electrical systems from what I have seen on YouTube and BattleBorn was aware of the video when I called them, but when they started telling me about their battery system, it was over my head 🙂, so I told them I preferred to post their written reply. 

 

 

I found several of his videos where he speaks very highly of Battleborn's. Then this video. All things electric are way overy head.  In any event Battleborn needs to address the video.

 

Thanks for sharing their response.

[fwunder]

Just to add as I have two Battleborns under my bed ( not an Oliver ) and have been following this closely. The response received to rideandfly above is the word for word response Dragonfly is sending to all queries. No doubt legal department had it ready to go. There is a lengthy discussion of issue()s) on Will's site @ https://diysolarforum.com/threads/battle-born-battery-issue.110295/

 

[Geronimo John]

1 hour ago, John Dorrer said:

I have never watched that guy before, so I have no clue as to his background and knowledge.

 

DIY Solar Power by Will Prowse has been around for many years.  His take it apart and inspect approach is well received.  Basically a common sense approach to looking at problems.  He in my opinion is not the definative expert in the detailed design elements. But he is able to communicate well and calls issues as he sees them.  I know of no other technician with his experience in taking apart and then making common sense reviews of hundreds of different batteries.  

 

So, is he raising the red flat on Battleborns before at least calling Dragon Fly for comment?  Yea sort of I think.  Was his post raising a flag that all BB owners need and should be aware of?  Yep.  

 

GJ

 

  

 

[fwunder]

 

[Steph and Dud B]

Excellent rebuttal in the second video. I'm not an electrical engineer, but I can't see how this can be a "safety feature" like BB claims. Loose connections on high amperage devices create heat, heat causes cell failure and potential thermal runaway in lithium batteries. 

[John Dorrer]

Here is Will's response to Battleborn/Dragonfly

 

Missed that FWunder posted this🙃

Edited Thursday at 08:56 PM by John Dorrer

[Geronimo John]

I think BB has a problem.  

They should initiate a recall.  

In the mean time, I highly recommend inspection of the terminals and thermal temperture testing of all 12V 4/O connections.

GJ

 

Edited Thursday at 09:40 PM by Geronimo John

[Geronimo John]

1 hour ago, Steph and Dud B said:

Excellent rebuttal in the second video. I'm not an electrical engineer, but I can't see how this can be a "safety feature" like BB claims. Loose connections on high amperage devices create heat, heat causes cell failure and potential thermal runaway in lithium batteries. 

When I saw Will's "Sparking" demo, in my mind's eye it turned from a safety one time feature into a serious "Oh Ship" issue.  

If an owner has BB's, I highly recommend getting a thermal temperature gun for checking the 4/0 system.  It is also very useful for checking Ollie's brakes... especially if in the mountains.

GJ

[2008RN]

I don't own any lithium batteries trailer batteries.  I have considered updating my system in the past year. BB price  point and warranty makes them a battery to be considered. I have scoured the internet on a few of the top name brands lithium batteries for this application.  BB was one of the batteries I looked into.  The most common negative comment I found was support blowing the customer off, when they had a failure and not standing behind their battery.  With this video it makes me want to stay away from BB.   I have no idea what their battery failure rate is,  Hypothetically if 1/2 percent of their 400,000 batteries sold failed , that would be 2,000 batteries.  In a community of higher end trailers, 2000 failures would stick out like a sore thumb. 

I know the Airstream uses BB, which is where I found some of the comments.

As a side note Winnebago acquired Lithionics company in 2023, to have more control of the batteries used in their trailer and to make  a saving using the Lithium technology. 

[John Dorrer]

Here is a response from an electrical engineer on Will's second video, the response video on BB's legal letter.

[fwunder]

So you folks are amongst the smartest I've been around so...

What is the outcome? Does Dragonfly simply deny and keep going? Do they admit fault and declare bankruptcy and walk away? I can't imagine a recall of some 400,000 batteries.

What say you?