Truma tankless water heater option - yes or no?

[John E Davies]

http://winnebagolife.com/2016/01/what-a-truma-is-and-why-you-want-one

 

https://www.truma.com/us/en/water-systems/aquago.php

 

From the specs page there:

 

"Simple maintenance with "Easy Drain Lever"

- Integrated water diverter eliminates water stains on vehicle exterior

- Reusable filter cartridge reduces scale particulates"

 

Can we please discuss this heater?

 

Which version does Oliver supply?

 

How much does it cost?

 

How easy is it to remove and clean the filter? How often is this required?

 

Is there any other regular maintenance required?

 

Is it dealer serviceable? (Do most regular small town RV shops know how to fix it?)

 

Are replacement parts _readily_ available and reasonably affordable? (This is very high on my list of pluses, this is German made, after all!)

 

What is the winterization process?

 

How well does it function in extreme cold?

 

Does it perform as well as it is hyped? Do you get any cold slugs of water?

 

Does it waste less water than a tank type? (This is way more important to me than propane use.)

 

If you have one, are you happy with your choice and can you comment on specific benefits or problems?

 

Anything else you can add that would help prospective buyers decide if this is a good investment?

 

Can someone post a link to the owner's manual download?

 

OK, I guess that is enough. To conclude I post a link to a (funny, biased and a little NSFW) video about residential tankless: ....

 

 

My Tech side says that I want one. My Scrooge side says that it will cost me an arm and a leg in the long run..... Usually the latter wins the arguments, which is why I won't own a diesel truck with a modern emissions system. I prefer simple and proven technology, until the alternative is proven to be better.

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

[Try2Relax]

While I do not have one in the trailer, I did install one (tankless) in my house.

 

The only true benefit is endless hot water, until you run out of propane anyways. If you are a boondocker  (classify as you will) and do not have hookups then it's pretty much a wash.

 

Either way, the line to the shower is wasted water, without a recirculation system. The benefit to the home system is that you can specify the temp and thus never use the cold.  As far as a cold blast, this is based on water pressure and the cold usually overriding the hot, simply cut the hot pex  and install a check valve and it won't happen either way.

 

While I love new technology, I will always research to justify value. In this case if you are not a campground veteran, with hookups for long showers, (I've never run out with my 6 gallon tank)  in my opinion the price tag isn't worth it. (I think it's a $1000- $1200 option if I remember correctly)

[topgun2]

The tankless water heater was not yet offered when I had Twist built early in 2016.  However, I still probably would not choose one.  Unlike in a usual residential setting where the water heater is either in the lower level of the house or tucked away in some other dark corner that is not easy to get to and there are multiple people wanting hot water at various times of the day, the water heater in most RV's is easily controled by a switch and is not called upon quite as often (at least by me).  It does seem wasteful to heat 6 gallons of water simply to do a small job, but I normally do not heat water until I'm about ready to take a shower.  It so happens that event is normally right before or right after dinner.  Therefore, the shower (probably using about 3 to 4 gallons of hot water) is basically combined with cleaning dirty dishes (another gallon or so).  Once the water heater does its thing I simply shut it off.  I guess that I use just about all 6 gallons doing these two chores.  Not being famaliar with the tankless units I'm not sure what normal maintenance is involved, but the maintenance on the tank varity is certainly not onerous.  Perhaps when is cost of these units comes down they may be worth considering, but, for me, it simply doesn't make sense at the moment.

 

Bill

[John E Davies]

Thanks for the comments: From the Owners Manual that Buzzy posted:

 

"The AquaGo comfort and AquaGo comfort plus models are equipped with a circulation pump. The circulation pump as well as the burner are switched on automatically by the control unit in order to keep the water temperature above a certain level (102 °F (39 °C) in “Comfort” mode and 41 °F (5 °C) in “ECO” mode).

 

The AquaGo comfort and AquaGo comfort plus models permit operation without the risk of freezing even at temperatures of -4 °F (-20 °C)."

 

It does not mention how much propane is used to keep the tank from freezing.

 

Winterization is dead easy - close the two isolation valves and open the drain lever.

 

Cleaning the sediment (inlet) filter looks dead simple, you just pop the lever, pull it out and flush with clean water. Possibly change the o-rings. However, descaling is much more of an issue than a conventional type:

 

"Decalcifying: Only use approved substances to decalcify the Truma AquaGoTM instant water heater to avoid damage and the voiding of your warranty. Never use vinegar. Call your local AquaGo dealer or service provider or see www.truma.net for more information.

 

– The use of non-Truma-approved sub- stances for decalcification can cause chemical reactions and produce hazardous substances that could enter the drinking water supply."

 

The recommended cleaning agents are three different Truma AquaStar products:..... which unfortunately seems to be completely unavailable and also discontinued: .....  http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/community/discussions/information,-technical-tips-advice/parts-accessories/aquastar--water-treatment/rt/1436600/ .... Maybe there is a substitute (approved) descaler that we could buy in the USA?

 

The troubleshooting guide says that if the hot water temp is lower than 120F you must have the unit decalcified by a certified service technician. It does not say what that requires - perhaps major disassembly? Maybe they have the chemicals?

 

This is a HUGE issue for me! A typical tank type heater is dead simple to clean out using high pressure water and a clean-out wand, through the anode opening. The Truma has a lot of inaccessible passages that require chemical cleaning: dissolving the crud instead of forcible flushing it away.

 

I tried to find out the cost of spare parts, by Googling the part numbers for the circulation pump and the vent blower. I did not get any results. If I had to guess, based on my experience with German home appliances, I would say up to $200 each, and they are probably only available as a complete unit (not as a rebuild kit or individual parts).

 

The Dealer Search turned up a fairly large number of Truma dealers in the USA. There was no way of telling if they have complete repair/ overhaul capabilities and if they have parts on hand. .... https://www.truma.com/int/en/home/dealer-search.php

 

Here is the layout:

 

Here is a traditional "old tech" Suburban water heater in comparison:

 

I hope we can gather more information about some of these maintenance and long term ownership issues, such as cost of parts and repairs, how long it takes to get special ordered parts (do they have a USA warehouse yet?). Can we try to post this info in this thread, for continuity?

 

At this stage I would not buy this heater, it is too much of a high-tech unknown for my risk-averse nature. I am afraid that it will prove to be a long term expensive ordeal, like owning a German car past the warranty period. A conventional heater can be serviced and repaired in your driveway for a few dollars and any dealer can fix it, or you can just buy a brand new one for $300 and throw the old broken one away. The Truma just does not compute! I don't get it....

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

[John E Davies]

Found a big gallery of a refit:

 

The water chute is fantastic, as long as you stand to the side. It keeps the water off the trailer.

 

Full Trailer Life article: no mention of servicing or maintenance issues.

 

http://www.trailerlife.com/trailer-how-to/trailer-tech/truma-aquago/

 

My impression from watching videos and reading reviews is that if you want to take long hot showers and have full hookups, including a waste drain, this will be great. But it comes at the expense of using up lots of propane, since it does not have an electric element. The burner is 60,000 btus. It also is a little finicky at low flow rates.

 

Not a great choice for a boondocker!

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

[KarenLukens]

At this stage I would not buy this heater, it is too much of a high-tech unknown for my risk-averse nature. I am afraid that it will prove to be a long term expensive ordeal, like owning a German car past the warranty period. A conventional heater can be serviced and repaired in your driveway for a few dollars and any dealer can fix it, or you can just buy a brand new one for $300 and throw the old broken one away. The Truma just does not compute! I don’t get it…. John Davies Spokane WA

 

I'll bump this a bit. I bought the Oliver because we wanted the best trailer that we could buy for the money and now $63,000.00+ not including tax and license, we will be picking it up soon. I bought the Truma because I wanted the best water heater without the hassle's of the Suburban that we ran into in our Casita. I don't think Oliver would be selling it if it wasn't a really good option. You guys have never ran out of hot water when taking a shower? Now that's incredible because I can not count how many times that I have ran out. Personally I think with the Suburban, I used more water waiting for it to get up from ice cold between soap ups then it took to shower. The waste of water waiting for it to get warm again after already being in the shower is ridiculous. I tried letting the hot water trickle but that used even more water between rinses... It sure seemed like I was only using 3 gallons but when the wife started saying brrrr... at least I could laugh until she came out... With the Truma the hot water is recirculated in the lines, supposedly, right? Have any of you owners checked how Oliver ran the return lines? Anyway, I trust Oliver and being an owner of a couple of German cars, I bought the Oliver to feel good in knowing that I am buying a quality product. If I wanted to go cheap, I would have bought a tin can trailer with the Suburban 6 gallon subwoofer hot water heater. The Truma is quiet, that's one of the selling points. Another is that when it is plumbed correctly and the cold waterline, the return-line and the hot waterline are all plumbed together and fastened together with zip ties to keep them all in one place so that in freezing weather, you don't have to worry because the 3 lines together will not allow the cold line that it's coupled with to freeze, is a huge plus; and on those days when it's hitting below 20°, all we need to do is switch it on to comfort mode and that by itself should add enough heat to the plumbing area to not need to worry if the heater is doing it's job. Our thinking is that we shouldn't need to run the heater while we're gone and it's in the high 20°s. We are 4 season campers, so this water heater is a big deal and we bought it to go with a true 4 season trailer. You really can't compare the Truma to a Suburban 6 gallon in any way because your basically comparing a Mercedes to a Geo Metro and I've owned both. Both are great cars but there's no comparing quality at all, one dents with the push of a finger, where the other bends fingers. To me the Suburban water heater is marginal and it fills an old school void.

 

If I was single then the Suburban would be fine but having to wait for either my wife or I to finish showering, the second always walks away with a cold shower. Score 1 for Truma. Plus we're used to refilling a 15 gallon Casita water tank every couple of days and with the Oliver we will have over twice as much. I'm really looking forward to not having to wait for hot water to come down the line because with the flick of a switch a few minutes before we shower, we will have hot water from the time we open the valve. Score another for Truma. And this is a big deal because we will be boondocking a lot of the time. When we're done showering, back to eco mode it will go so it won't be running at all unless it gets below 41°. Definitely the way to go for boondocking.

 

As far as problems with the Suburban, running out of hot water has always been an issue with 2 people in our trailers, and when we take the 4 grand kids, the fight for who goes first is on. The biggest Suburban problem that we ever dealt with was with the Casita. When the wind was blowing at the water heater, it would blow the fumes back inside and the next thing you know, we were light headed before the CO² alarm went off. I can't count how many times this happened but I did fix that problem easily by attaching a small carabiner through the outside access door knobs 3/8" hole. Then when we got to our campsite I would simply turn the knob 90° to crack open the access door that little bit until the door itself was past the plastic suburban handle and now touching the small carabiner. A key ring works well also but if you need to open the door, a keyring is slow. Plus it will be hot if you're doing it with the hot water heater running. Anyway, this allows the co to vent out the top of the door instead of getting blown back inside the trailer.   It's a simple fix but it helps keep those pounding CO² headaches away. I was a boiler engineer back in the day, so I'm not worried about having to pull apart and clean the Truma and if needed I can afford to fix it. Basically we bought an Oliver for the quality and size, then sold the Casita. I'm sure that Oliver sells the cleaning compound and if not, I have no doubt that they will order it for me :)

 

One more month before we pick up our Olli and not having to worry about enough hot water for the family is a big relief right now. The grand kids are going to be really happy :)

 

https://www.amazon.com/LEERYA-Aluminum-Carabiner-Keychain-Climbing/dp/B01MFG7DMI/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1483005560&sr=8-2&keywords=small+1%22+carabiner

[DavidS]

With the Truma the hot water is recirculated in the lines, supposedly, right?

There are three models of Truma AquaGo water heaters: Truma AquaGo Basic, Truma AquaGo Comfort, and Truma AquaGo Comfort Plus.

 

I believe only the Truma AquaGo Comfort Plus has the recirculation feature. The unit installed on my Ollie is the Truma AquaGo Comfort model. No recirculation.

 

Having never camped in a trailer with a regular 6 gallon water heater, I cannot compare. I can say we were quite happy with this heater, when we had hookups and took regular showers! From my limited use so far, the hot water arrived pretty quickly at the taps.

[donthompson]

I'm late to this discussion, but I have information to share. My 2016 Elite II has the standard water heater. I talked to Jason Essary yesterday about possibly installing the tankless water heater when I visit the factory after the 2017 rally. The major advantage of the tankless heater is that you don't have to wait for the water heater to heat water for a shower, washing dishes, etc. when you first establish a camp. That's about it in terms of performance. Once the water is hot in the standard water heater, you only wait a couple of seconds more for hot water to flow through your shower or faucet.

 

Based on that info, I decided to stick with my standard water heater. I use propane to heat the water quickly even if I have an electrical hookup. It rarely takes more than 45 minutes or so.

 

If I need to replace my water heater in the future, I'll consider the tankless heater, but I won't spend the money to replace a functioning water heater.

 

 

[DebbieandJohn]

We have a tankless water heater both at home and in our Ollie.  We've been out in our Ollie twice since picking it up mid November.  We do not regret the purchase of the tankless water heater.  Hot water comes to our taps quick enough and I like a hot shower!

[KarenLukens]

Jason was looking in to putting the Comfort+ in ours today :) No waiting for hot water between rinses sounds great, I hope they can do it.

[Overland]

We're pushing for the circulation pump for ours, too - talking to Jason, it sounded like there's enough interest for them to try to make it work.  One thing I asked about was insulating the PEX lines along the circulation path, so he's looking into that as well.  PEX is a good heat conductor, though I don't know if it's really worth the effort for such a small run - still, worth looking into.

 

On a related note, I said something about them having a heat duct in the hull space, and I was told that they don't really do that.  What they actually do is use 'special heat-conducting ductwork' between the hulls; i.e., uninsulated.  LOL.

[KarenLukens]

We’re pushing for the circulation pump for ours, too – talking to Jason, it sounded like there’s enough interest for them to try to make it work. One thing I asked about was insulating the PEX lines along the circulation path, so he’s looking into that as well. PEX is a good heat conductor, though I don’t know if it’s really worth the effort for such a small run – still, worth looking into. On a related note, I said something about them having a heat duct in the hull space, and I was told that they don’t really do that. What they actually do is use ‘special heat-conducting ductwork’ between the hulls; i.e., uninsulated. LOL.

Heat Conducting :) Now there's a salesman for ya :) Next, he'll start using that "Affordable" word.

[Overland]

Information for anyone who wants the AquaGo Comfort Plus with the water circulator:

 

Jason told me that right now Oliver won't install that unit since their line is trained on the regular model and they would have to re-engineer plumbing to accommodate the Comfort Plus.  I suspect that the difference in the plumbing is simply replacing the two elbows at the bath and outdoor shower with T's and then connecting the two with PEX, but I'll bow to their knowledge which is certainly better than mine on the matter.

 

I acquiesced on the issue of course, but called Truma today to see what my options might be for upgrading at a later date, or even the possibility of installing the Comfort Plus without running the circulation pump until I've retrofitted the plumbing myself.  You can guess the response to my latter question (hey, ya gotta ask).  Unfortunately I was also told that there would be no way to swap out one unit for the other even if I wanted, since they don't sell the Comfort Plus retail.  In other words, unless Oliver installs the Comfort Plus from the get go, I'm out of luck.

 

The only ray of sunshine was that the rep I spoke with said that he would be willing to do whatever design work needed to be done for the comfort plus and then travel to Oliver to oversee the initial installation.  He had good things to say about Oliver, by the way, which I guess should be no surprise to us.  I'll pass his offer on to Oliver, so we'll see if that makes a difference.

 

If you're in the line right now and you're interested in the circulation pump, it might be worth voicing that desire to Oliver to help nudge them that direction.

[KarenLukens]

I went round and round with Oliver as well on this and Jason did the same, but they wouldn't budge. Truma wants a factory certified tech to install the C+ and Oliver would have to pay for the certification. Probably a 2 hour class... It's a simple install for any mediocre handy man... When I see mine in person on the 13th, I'll post pics of it because it looks way to simple with just a couple of tee's and some line needed to turn the Comfort model into the comfort+ less the extra high temp but 113° is fine for me. I would just run it to the inside shower myself. 11 days and counting down...

 

Reed

[Bruce W]

Will the tankless heater work on both propane and electricity?

[KarenLukens]

No

[DavidS]

We got the Truma AquaGo water heater, and we have been happy with it. Until it started leaking last week…

 

We were on our way to meet up with two groups of friends at Moon Lake, which is in the eastern Uintah mountains, north of Duchesne, Utah. The NFS campground is at 8100 feet, in an area with almost no cellular reception.

 

We stopped for lunch at a rest area west of Duchesne, and since there were no rest rooms, we turned on the water pump and used Ollie’s toilet. When we came out of the trailer we saw water on the ground, and water dripping from the Truma AquaGo access panel. I opened the access panel and turned the water pump on and saw water gushing into the interior of the Truma AquaGo. Not good. Fortunately, there was no water in the compartment under the curbside bed.

I opened the Truma AquaGo instruction manual, and it provided no guidance here. The manual said the unit had a 12 month warranty, but we picked up Ollie 23 months ago. Oh well.

 

We had good cell reception at the rest area, so I called Jason Essary, who was very helpful. Although he did not have a quick fix, he did provide me with info on the RV service shops in Utah that they had used for warranty work, and he contacted them. He also provided me with info the two RV Service Centers near Salt Lake City that Truma lists on their website. Finally Jason confirmed that that we could isolate the Truma from the water system by closing the winterizing valve. Closing the valve prevented water from spilling out when the water pump was on.

 

So we decided to go ahead with our camping trip, but without hot water in the trailer. We heated water for washing and dishes on our outside stove, like we did as tent campers. The camping trip was great, and I am glad our hot water heater problem did not spoil the fun.

 

I called the two RV service shops that Jason had given me, and they said they don’t work on Trumas. I called the two shops that are Authorized Truma Service Centers. Airstream of Salt Lake City said they only work on Airstreams. The other shop said they don’t work on Trumas, despite being listed on the Truma website.

 

I next called Truma, and was connected to Stewart Neville, Truma’s Regional Mobile Service Technician based in Southern California, and he was awesome. First, he was pissed that the Authorized Service Centers were of no help, and said that he would deal with them. Second, he asked me if I had the extended 2 year warranty. Huh? It turns out that when I picked up Ollie there was a form that said if I register the Truma online I get an extended warranty. I was pretty certain I had, and lo and behold, I found the email from Truma with the subject line Extended Warranty Confirmation. Remember I said we purchased Ollie 23 months ago?

 

Advice. If you purchase an Ollie and get the Truma AquaGo, do the online registration and get the free extended 2 year warranty.

 

So now I had to find someone to repair the unit. Two years ago a friend recommended a local shop. They have good online reviews, and I had used them to repack my wheel bearings. I called them, and they were unfamiliar with the Truma. I then googled “RV service,” and google autocompleted with “RV service near me.” Okay. I remembered forum posts suggesting that many RV repair shops are incompetent, dishonest, or both. (I am thinking about you, John Davies.) I found an independent guy, Berts RV Service, that had five five-star reviews on google. I know that reviews can be gamed, but these looked real. Additionally there was a blog post by someone who had used Bert Warner. And Bert was mobile. He came to me in his van, rather than me schlepping the trailer to an RV shop. Bert learned his trade working at RV dealer, before he went out on his own. He talked on the phone to Stewart from Truma, and learned how to remove and open up the Truma Aquago. He found the problem, a loose water connection fitting (correct word?) that was not even finger tight. He cleaned it, put on lots of Teflon plumber’s tape, and reconnected it. No leak!

 

I was very pleased with Bert’s work. He used fresh butyl tape and silicone when he reinstalled the unit, and verified that there were no propane leaks. He even cleaned up the broken rivets and stuff from the floor. I had never heard of butyl tape, but it helps waterproof the chamber. I learned stuff watching him, and that doesn’t happen at a regular shop.

 

All components can break, and I am glad I got this fixed. I don't want to dissuade prospective Oliver buyers from getting the Truma Aquago. We really like it. Bert told me he had looked up Truma Aquago online, and they have great reviews, unlike the Girard tankless water heaters. Leave it to Oliver to select the highest quality components.

 

So, I'm a happy camper!

[dbp05ret]

Old thread but soon to be new owner! Yesterday, I called Heather and placed an order for an Elite II. I paid the 15% down and my wife and I will travel to Hohenwald tomorrow morning to go over upgrades. This will be our 3rd trip. Production will start on 28 September and pickup will be 10 December. One upgrade that I have not made up my mind on is the Truma Tankless Water Heater. I have research it for far too many hours and am still undecided. I emailed Heather and have requested how many warranty transaction's have taken place on the tankless compared to the tank. As of this hour, I have not received a reply. The reason for my hesitation on the tankless is because of a recent conversations with a plumber and a real estate agent. They both said that around the 6 or 7 year mark on home systems, major problems exist with the tankless heater in many homes. They recommended not to get. Now, I understand that there is probably a big difference between a home installed system and a RV installed system. It could be that home system are not properly maintain and the decalcification tablets used in RV (truma) Systems make a difference. I do not come from a mechanical background. However, I do understand the tank system. Has anyone had a warranty claim with either system? Additionally, does anyone regret the system they purchased? Thanks in advance!

[Mike and Carol]

Has anyone had a warranty claim with either system? Additionally, does anyone regret the system they purchased? Thanks in advance!

 

We have had the regular hot water tank going on 3 years with no problems. We didn’t get the tankless because it wasn’t available when we ordered. We’re happy with what we have, simple and reliable. Mike

[Overland]

David we had the exact same thing happen on our first trip.  Water gushing into the unit.  We were no where near a factory authorized service center but fortunately we were at the end of our trip anyway.  Truma wasn't of any help a the time and said that we'd either have to have it serviced at one of their authorized centers or have it replaced by Oliver, which is what we did.  I'm glad that they were more helpful with you.

[KWRJRPE]

I really enjoy reading the opinions of Oliver owners - so much expertise and persuasive wisdom. I am at the stage of deciding on upgrades for a build date in December 2018 and pickup date in April 2019, so the Truma tankless water heater option is of interest. I thought I decided to get it (no brainer) until reading so many valid reasons to not. However, the reasoning of it being expensive rings hollow as I prepare to drop $70K on a relatively small travel trailer (my "experienced" camping friends argue I could purchase two or three travel trailers of comparable size for this one $70K purchase). Anyway, that is another topic - back to the Truma - you are my main go-to wise one on the forum and your opinion the Truma gets me back to my original thinking - add it to the list. My problem, I like all the upgrade options. As Anita suggested, might be better to get an option now while the labor is included in the new trailer purchase price, than pay for labor to add it later (I am not very good at self-install). It is likely Karren and I will spend more time at campgrounds than out in the wild, so, the need to conserve water (and limit showers) will not be a factor very often. And, I have decided on the composting toilet - in my thinking, a lesser evil than managing a relatively small capacity black tank (once again, my "experienced" camper friends do not agree). Thank you for your opinion on the Truma.

[SeaDawg]

If you plan to camp in RV parks, and use their facilities, don't bother with the upgrade. You'll still have to check the anode, and drain to winterize, but there's a tiny bit of winterizing with the tankless, too

The swap out from a six gallon to a tankless is pretty forthright, and minimal. But a new door, exterior, too

 

Run the stock heater for eight to twelve years til it dies if you are not a big boondocking fan. You'll be fine.

I say this, as we've had both.

Sherry

[SeaDawg]

The original six gallon Atwood or whatever does not eliminate boondocking. Just don't turn it on till you need it. Don't leave it running 24/7. Honestly, if you let it run on gas around 10 to 20 minutes, you'll have decent temp for shower without mixing. Heat water in a tea kettle for dishes, as I have always done, and you will not only save gas, but water, too.

We don't have a truma. Too early adopters. Our Girard is fine, but the outside door lock is weak.

Sherry

[RnA]

If you are staying at campgrounds and hooked up to shore power you can heat the tank water heater with "free" electric.  You can also maintain the temperature in the tank with that "free" electricity.  - Randy

[ScottRicki]

The Oliver is our third travel trailer. All of our camping has been in parks. I installed an Atwood tankless in our second trailer and it was just OK. The Truma is spectacular. Previously and without the Atwood I always showered in park’s facilities since I enjoy a real shower. Plus someone else had usually already used up the hot water in the trailer. All that said the cheapest method is the standard tank, use parks electric to heat water, and use parks showers as much as possible. But we really love being able to use our own shower with endless hot water.