AC power in trailer via shore power on Xantrex only

[Ray Kimsey]

A couple of questions please. I have searched the forum and the Facebook page without any success. We picked up our Ollie last week and got back home a couple of days ago. I plugged in the trailer to an outside 15/20amp receptacle at our house using a dogbone adapter, then I hooked up a small dehumidifier.  Tonight I noticed the batteries were almost drained. I assumed the power I had connected to would power the ac outlets in the trailer, but they only seem to work via the inverter. They do not work if I turn the Xantrex inverter off using the power switch on the inverter. Do the AC outlets only work from the inverter pulling power from the batteries? Would this related to the 20 amp circuit from my house?  Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. 

[Overland]

If there’s no power to the outlets when plugged in, inverter off, then something is wrong for sure. Possibly a bad transfer switch but hopefully there’s a simpler solution.  I guess that I’d check the breaker on the house circuit first just to make sure that you didn’t trip it with the dehumidifier. That, or if the outlet you’re using is a GFCI then check that. Either way, I’d verify that you actually have power as a first step in figuring it out. Also, if you have a surge protector, make sure that it’s not showing an error (should cycle through E 0 on the display). It’s possible that it detected a wiring fault - no ground or maybe reversed hot and neutral. 

Edited October 21, 2020 by Overland

[Ray Kimsey]

Thank you for the fast response. The breaker and the GFCI from the house are good and there is power to the trailer. I guess I will call Oliver tomorrow.

 

[Overland]

Definitely call Oliver if no one else posts with a solution. Let us know what they say and what the problem turns out to be. 

[geokeg]

If you have a microwave and it is not powered from shore power with the inverter off you probably have a shore power quality problem and the protective devices won't let it power up the trailer.  I suggest checking your fault codes on the monitor.  I had essentially the same problem with a circuit coming from my house.  The receptacle had been wired wrong and had reverse polarity.  I swapped the wires around on the receptacle and it then worked fine.  You can also try the over ride function for a test of that, if it powers up in over ride the reverse polarity is a likely cause.  If so, you should have it fixed, potentially dangerous if you don't.

[John E Davies]

I agree that you may have a supply problem, do you have a GFCI tester? You NEED to have one of these in your galley drawer, for routine checks at campgrounds before plugging in to shore power... Any brand similar to this, with the GFCI button on it, will be fine. The local hardware store will have one.

Sperry tester

Check all your Ollie outlets with it also, including the one above the microwave. Test the functioning of your GFCI outlet, mine is located below the dinette.

Your dog bone adapter may be faulty, you need to check everything. Many cheap ones are poorly made. Buy a 15A male to 30 A female one, plugged directly into your side connection, and try plugging a regular 15A extension cord into the trailer - if that fixes the problem your other adapter is no good. You don’t need to use your big cable over the winter, a heavy gauge 15A (10 AWG) cord is fine.

If your home outlet and your cords and adapters check OK, then you need to contact Oliver. Not before.

Good luck.

John Davies

Spokane WA

 
 

Edited October 21, 2020 by John E Davies

[Ray Kimsey]

Thank you for all the suggestions. Right now I will work on testing the things that have been suggested so far. The power management monitor is reading E0, 123V, 0A 60H.  Also the microwave does not have power.  I will work on getting a new dogbone connector and sperry tester as suggested by John.

I also verified everything again that I mentioned in my earlier postings since these things seem most like to occur late at night :-).  Ollie plugged in and the inverter powered off on the inverter box itself (the power button on the inverter display doesn't seem to do anything).  There is no power to the outlets. As soon as I turn the inverter on they power up, but I am trying to keep it off so as not to run the batteries down anymore. Another  hour or to till the sun comes up!

[bhncb]

Ray, Have you reset the 20 amp circuit breaker for the outlets in the power center under the dinette?

[Ray Kimsey]

So far I have found the receptacle at the house tests good with CFGI circuit tester and I borrowed another dogbone connector and still have the same results. I checked the fuse/circuit box (DC distribution panel) under the dinette but I did not find anything for the outlets. I have not found any other panels. Included is a picture of the DC panel on the 2020 LE2. The CFGI outlet on the inverter seems to work when I power it up. The sun is out now and the batteries are being charged as a positive.

[topgun2]

Ray - as I recall, on your model you have a second panel located on the "Attic" - you might want to check that also.

Bill

edit - the attic is the large storage locker at the top center of the rear of the Oliver.

Edited October 21, 2020 by topgun2

[Overland]

My guess at this point is that it's either a bad transfer switch or a wire has come loose.  

[BackofBeyond]

As the Master Oliver remodeler (I say that in reverence)  Mr. Overland has commented  - if you have shore power - and the Power manager says you do, and you get power off the inverter - it is most probably the transfer -or a connection in that circuit. Not having a wiring diagram for your unit I'm just surmising. 

Good hunting - with a good voltage tester it shouldn't take to much to find the issue. 

 

[bhncb]

It’s hard to see but looking at the picture of your power panel, it appears that all the AC breakers are shut off. If this isn’t the case, do you have shore power AC to the refrigerator and air conditioner?

Given the nominal values being displayed by the EMS, everything between and including  your source outlet and the trailer panel connection has been eliminated.

[Ray and Susan Huff]

20 minutes ago, bhncb said:

It’s hard to see but looking at the picture of your power panel, it appears that all the AC breakers are shut off. If this isn’t the case, do you have shore power AC to the refrigerator and air conditioner?

Given the nominal values being displayed by the EMS, everything between and including  your source outlet and the trailer panel connection has been eliminated.

I hope this is the case . . . . . an easy fix!

[Ray Kimsey]

I have talked with Jason and here is what we have come up with so far. I plugged the trailer back in and the inverter came back on. I was using a 50 ft 12ga drop cord. With the inverter off there were no errors. When the power was turned on, it came back alive and the EMS eventually showed a PE4 (low voltage message). The microwave came alive and outlets worked.  I am going to replace the current 12 ga power cord with a 10 gauge 25 ft cord and see how that does. I am still not sure why the inverter has to be on to get power to the outlets. I am going to have to study up on the Xantrex Inverter manual some more.  I have not been able to find a good overall basic wiring diagram for it yet. I will look some more later. I will try a new drop cord for now and let people know how that goes. I am headed out of town tomorrow (not with the Ollie unfortunately so it will be a couple of days before I can do much more).  Thank you all for the help!

 

[Ray and Susan Huff]

1 minute ago, Ray Kimsey said:

I have talked with Jason and here is what we have come up with so far. I plugged the trailer back in and the inverter came back on. I was using a 50 ft 12ga drop cord. With the inverter off there were no errors. When the power was turned on, it came back alive and the EMS eventually showed a PE4 (low voltage message). The microwave came alive and outlets worked.  I am going to replace the current 12 ga power cord with a 10 gauge 25 ft cord and see how that does. I am still not sure why the inverter has to be on to get power to the outlets. I am going to have to study up on the Xantrex Inverter manual some more.  I have not been able to find a good overall basic wiring diagram for it yet. I will look some more later. I will try a new drop cord for now and let people know how that goes. I am headed out of town tomorrow (not with the Ollie unfortunately so it will be a couple of days before I can do much more).  Thank you all for the help!

 

Interesting that the inverter would have to be on for the outlets to work.  Our Leisure Travel Van had a 1000w inverter.  The inverter had an on/off switch which we kept turned off, for the most part, and the outlets worked fine.

Is the Oliver inverter automatic? Does it come on when the electrical system detects no 110 power?

Our Oliver will be equipped with the lithium pro package.  I am going to ask a lot of electrical questions during our walk-through.  

[Ray Kimsey]

Susan, I am not sure on your question. What you experienced with your van was what I was expecting. I am not sure, but it seems from what Jason was saying it needs to be on continuously, but I am not sure. I am not sure I followed everything  Jason said.  I am going to read up more on the xantrex and look for a wiring diagram later, but so much to learn it is hard to capture it all.  

[topgun2]

Ray -

My inverter is never on unless I specifically turn it on.  However, my Oliver is a 2016 model Elite II.  So, I'm guessing that yours could be different - but, I doubt it.

Bill

[Overland]

Do you have the new 3000 watt Xantrex, and if so, is it a hybrid inverter/charger?  I know they make one, but I didn't think Oliver was using it.  My hybrid inverter has four settings - on, off, charger only and inverter only.  If it's set to charger only or off, then it doesn't supply power to the outlets even when I'm plugged in.  

[Ray and Susan Huff]

40 minutes ago, Overland said:

My hybrid inverter has four settings - on, off, charger only and inverter only.  If it's set to charger only or off, then it doesn't supply power to the outlets even when I'm plugged in.  

The whole "power thing" is complicated and confusing. . . . . I'm going to have to sit down with someone at Oliver, when we do our walk-through, and get educated.  I need a flow chart (no pun intended), showing different situations: where the power is routed and what kind of power it is (110, 12v, solar, generator).  Is there a pecking order, so to speak; which power source takes precedence.  This is something Oliver needs to put on their university.

Edited October 21, 2020 by Susan Huff

[Ray Kimsey]

Mine is the Freedom XC 2000, the 3000 comes in the 2021 models with the lithium package I believe.

 

 

[Ray and Susan Huff]

42 minutes ago, Overland said:

Do you have the new 3000 watt Xantrex, and if so, is it a hybrid inverter/charger?  I know they make one, but I didn't think Oliver was using it.  My hybrid inverter has four settings - on, off, charger only and inverter only.  If it's set to charger only or off, then it doesn't supply power to the outlets even when I'm plugged in.  

Are you saying, when your inverter is set to "charger only" or "off", the outlets are not powered, even if the trailer is connected to shore power?  If this is the case, and I have my trailer connected to shore power to run a space heater during storage and the power goes out, the inverter will power the heater off the batteries?  That wouldn't be good.

Is this correct: in a 12v system with a hybrid inverter/charger, the inverter/charger is one unit whereas with a 12v system with a non-hybrid inverter, the inverter is stand alone and works independently of the separate charger?

Oliver needs a video crash course - 12v Electrical Systems 101.

[Ray and Susan Huff]

24 minutes ago, Susan Huff said:

Are you saying, when your inverter is set to "charger only" or "off", the outlets are not powered, even if the trailer is connected to shore power?  If this is the case, and I have my trailer connected to shore power to run a space heater during storage and the power goes out, the inverter will power the heater off the batteries?  That wouldn't be good.

Is this correct: in a 12v system with a hybrid inverter/charger, the inverter/charger is one unit whereas with a 12v system with a non-hybrid inverter, the inverter is stand alone and works independently of the separate charger?

Oliver needs a video crash course - 12v Electrical Systems 101.

I looked at the manual Oliver has in the University listing (they show one for both the 2000 and the 3000 inverters, but the link to the 3000 brings up the 1000w/2000w version not the Pro 3000.

Anyway, in the manual for the Freedom XC (not the 3000w Pro model), page 40, it appears the power display has just what I want - a flow chart!  Not sure I totally understand it yet, but at least it's a visual instead of electrical jargon.

[Mike and Carol]

22 minutes ago, Susan Huff said:

Are you saying, when your inverter is set to "charger only" or "off", the outlets are not powered, even if the trailer is connected to shore power?  If this is the case, and I have my trailer connected to shore power to run a space heater during storage and the power goes out, the inverter will power the heater off the batteries?  That wouldn't be good.

I don’t know what inverter Oliver is installing now.  The 2000 Watt Xantrex I have has two settings, On and Off.  When connected to shore power I keep it “Off’ and all the AC outlets work.  When not connected to shore power and I want to use an AC outlet or the microwave, I turn the inverter “On”.  While plugged into shore power while in storage, I make sure the inverter is “Off” so I don’t drain the batteries if there is a power outage.  I’m sure any inverter that is “Off” does not disable AC outlets when connected to shore power.   Mike

[Ray and Susan Huff]

Just now, Mike and Carol said:

I don’t know what inverter Oliver is installing now.  The 2000 Watt Xantrex I have has two settings, On and Off.  When connected to shore power I keep it “Off’ and all the AC outlets work.  When not connected to shore power and I want to use an AC outlet or the microwave, I turn the inverter “On”.  While plugged into shore power while in storage, I make sure the inverter is “Off” so I don’t drain the batteries if there is a power outage.  I’m sure any inverter that is “Off” does not disable AC outlets when connected to shore power.   Mike

That's the way the Xantrex 1000w inverter worked in our camper van.  

Oliver has a manual listed in the University for model year 2020.  It is the Xantrex Freedom XC Pro 3000w.  I have emailed my sales agent to inquire if this is the inverter used with the Lithium Pro Package.  Unfortunately the link to the Pro 3000 in the University takes me to the manual for the XC 1000 and 2000w inverter, not the Pro 3000, manual.