Andersen Weight Distribution Hitch

[Patriot]

I agree with Backofbeyond, I was sooooo happy the day I removed my Andersen hitch from our Ollie, and even happier the day I sold it and shipped it to its new owner! 

 

[topgun2]

Try:

THIS for the Andersen install vid.

Bill

[Patwv]

Thanks Topgun2.  That's the video I used.

Pat

[Pat Maundrell]

On 5/14/2021 at 12:05 PM, KWRJRPE said:

My triangle plate is an older style (not the "sleek-looking curved end" triangle plate introduced a few years ago).  Most notably, my plate does not have the metal "ring" on the end that slips onto the bottom of the shaft, I must hold the plate in place while trying to push the pin through the shaft and plate holes straddling each side of the shaft.  Should I consider purchasing the "curved" triangle plate to make life easier

?     

I did and I am glad I did, the best $100.00 you will spend!. You not only get an improved Bat Wing but you also get the updated Ball Assembly with the new Friction Hold down Ring.

Don't forget to add get the Tractor Supply Pin & Spring Clip at your local Tractor Supply Store, again the best $8.00 you will spend! 

[Ralph Mawyer]

FWIW, be sure and check the screws holding the top plate on. I got the upgrade kit and one screw was very loose and three others marginally so. 

[SNY SD UP]

On 5/13/2021 at 8:11 AM, topgun2 said:

HERE is a new video from Jason and the Oliver Service Department regarding the Andersen Weight Distribution Hitch.

Bill

[Fritz]

Here is another Anderson question:  We're towing Hull 792 (LE2) with a 2021 3/4 ton Ram with Cummins diesel, with a standard BW adjustable hitch.  The trailer weighs 5k lbs empty, almost certainly less than 6k lbs full, and is well within the truck's towing and payload capacity.  The trailer tows well (we've towed it about 4,000 miles so far), the engine is relaxed, there is no sway, but there is a bit more porpoising than I would like.  It's ultimately secure, but I feel the trailer jounce a bit on uneven concrete freeway or highway-bridge transitions.

Perhaps the porpoising is normal, perhaps not.  The 3/4 ton rams have coil springs, which may be a bit softer than leaf springs on GMs and Fords, although I understand that GM and Ford are using longer leaf springs in newer trucks to soften the ride.

Seems there are 3 options for reducing jounce: the Anderson WDH, stiffer shocks, or air bags.  I've resisted the Anderson because of the forum comments about hassling with the WDH.  Shocks would stiffen the ride all the time, even when empty, and the air bags would reduce sag (of which we don't have much, perhaps 1.5") but not necessarily add jounce control.  

The Ram manual recommends (but does not say "require") WDHs with trailer weights over 5k lbs, but it's a rather generic recommendation (it does not, for instance, distinguish between diesel and gas engines, the diesel being substantially heavier).  If I were towing 12k lbs there would be no question, but 5,800 lbs?

Anyway, this topic has been discussed in a variety of ways, but I'm interested in your thoughts about reducing porpoising in a 3/4 ton Ram, perhaps by adding the Anderson WDH or other measures.  (I'm reluctant to do this, knowing that some of you have celebrated ditching the Anderson!)

Thanks, Folks.

[Fritz]

Here is, I believe, a working link to Jason's video: 

 

[SNY SD UP]

On 6/13/2021 at 7:44 AM, topgun2 said:

Try:

THIS for the Andersen install vid.

Bill

found the correct url; Thanks

[topgun2]

Fritz -

Have you tried putting a bit more weight in the back of that 3/4?

[Fritz]

I will be adding a cap on Monday (perhaps 250 lbs?) and rock tamers (~32 lbs) -- do you think that might be enough to help? For a while about a month ago I had an extra 20 gallons of diesel fuel (perhaps 160 lbs in four 5-gallon diesel jugs) in the bed during the recent Colonial pipeline episode.  Didn't notice any obvious difference then, but perhaps with a bit more weight from the shell ....

[Fritz]

19 hours ago, Fritz said:

Here is another Anderson question:  We're towing Hull 792 (LE2) with a 2021 3/4 ton Ram with Cummins diesel, with a standard BW adjustable hitch.  The trailer weighs 5k lbs empty, almost certainly less than 6k lbs full, and is well within the truck's towing and payload capacity.  The trailer tows well (we've towed it about 4,000 miles so far), the engine is relaxed, there is no sway, but there is a bit more porpoising than I would like.  It's ultimately secure, but I feel the trailer jounce a bit on uneven concrete freeway or highway-bridge transitions.

Perhaps the porpoising is normal, perhaps not.  The 3/4 ton rams have coil springs, which may be a bit softer than leaf springs on GMs and Fords, although I understand that GM and Ford are using longer leaf springs in newer trucks to soften the ride.

Seems there are 3 options for reducing jounce: the Anderson WDH, stiffer shocks, or air bags.  I've resisted the Anderson because of the forum comments about hassling with the WDH.  Shocks would stiffen the ride all the time, even when empty, and the air bags would reduce sag (of which we don't have much, perhaps 1.5") but not necessarily add jounce control.  

The Ram manual recommends (but does not say "require") WDHs with trailer weights over 5k lbs, but it's a rather generic recommendation (it does not, for instance, distinguish between diesel and gas engines, the diesel being substantially heavier).  If I were towing 12k lbs there would be no question, but 5,800 lbs?

Anyway, this topic has been discussed in a variety of ways, but I'm interested in your thoughts about reducing porpoising in a 3/4 ton Ram, perhaps by adding the Anderson WDH or other measures.  (I'm reluctant to do this, knowing that some of you have celebrated ditching the Anderson!)

Thanks, Folks.

An additional question: does the Anderson WDH create undue strain when driving through dips (for example, like those found pulling out of a parking lot onto a crowned road, or across Tilly-humps on a Forest Service road)?

[John E Davies]

39 minutes ago, Fritz said:

An additional question: does the Anderson WDH create undue strain when driving through dips (for example, like those found pulling out of a parking lot onto a crowned road, or across Tilly-humps on a Forest Service road)?

Of course it does, by its very design it binds up the motion between coupler and ball. This is why it (or any WD hitch) isn’t recommended at all for actual offroad use. At the very least you “should” reduce chain tension, by a lot, or disconnect them entirely, if you have to drive across really uneven terrain, like a rutted dirt path back to a primitive forest service campsite….. Minor humps and dips aren’t a problem, OTH severe dips really stress the chains and the red bushings, and may break those screw-together couplers that are used to extend them. There was a thread about busted couplers not long ago.

Have you measured your tongue weight? Lightening that may eliminate a lot of them jouncing and make it possible to stay with a dead weight hitch. Get rid of the tongue cargo box and put any heavy stuff like generator in the truck bed, far forward. My 2006 Ram 3500 was perfectly fine with a simple fixed dead weight hitch.

There are adjustable shocks, you turn a knob to alter the dampening, depending on the load. I have not used them in decades, but thirty years ago I had Rancho 9000 (?) rear ones on a 1 ton Suburban when towing 8500 pounds of SeaRay boat, and they actually worked quite well. You might do some research about what is available now.

John Davies

Spokane WA

[RBD]

22 hours ago, Fritz said:

Here is another Anderson question:  We're towing Hull 792 (LE2) with a 2021 3/4 ton Ram with Cummins diesel, with a standard BW adjustable hitch.  The trailer weighs 5k lbs empty, almost certainly less than 6k lbs full, and is well within the truck's towing and payload capacity.  The trailer tows well (we've towed it about 4,000 miles so far), the engine is relaxed, there is no sway, but there is a bit more porpoising than I would like.  It's ultimately secure, but I feel the trailer jounce a bit on uneven concrete freeway or highway-bridge transitions.

Perhaps the porpoising is normal, perhaps not.  The 3/4 ton rams have coil springs, which may be a bit softer than leaf springs on GMs and Fords, although I understand that GM and Ford are using longer leaf springs in newer trucks to soften the ride.

Seems there are 3 options for reducing jounce: the Anderson WDH, stiffer shocks, or air bags.  I've resisted the Anderson because of the forum comments about hassling with the WDH.  Shocks would stiffen the ride all the time, even when empty, and the air bags would reduce sag (of which we don't have much, perhaps 1.5") but not necessarily add jounce control.  

The Ram manual recommends (but does not say "require") WDHs with trailer weights over 5k lbs, but it's a rather generic recommendation (it does not, for instance, distinguish between diesel and gas engines, the diesel being substantially heavier).  If I were towing 12k lbs there would be no question, but 5,800 lbs?

Anyway, this topic has been discussed in a variety of ways, but I'm interested in your thoughts about reducing porpoising in a 3/4 ton Ram, perhaps by adding the Anderson WDH or other measures.  (I'm reluctant to do this, knowing that some of you have celebrated ditching the Anderson!)

Thanks, Folks.

With your set up have you considered a AIRSAFE Air Hitch?  Purchased one for a former LEII - never picked up the trailer - Air Hitch is still in the box, never used & for sale - Tucson, AZ.  PM for price / details.

[Jim and Frances]

On 6/26/2021 at 5:22 PM, Fritz said:

Here is another Anderson question:  We're towing Hull 792 (LE2) with a 2021 3/4 ton Ram with Cummins diesel, with a standard BW adjustable hitch.  The trailer weighs 5k lbs empty, almost certainly less than 6k lbs full, and is well within the truck's towing and payload capacity.  The trailer tows well (we've towed it about 4,000 miles so far), the engine is relaxed, there is no sway, but there is a bit more porpoising than I would like.  It's ultimately secure, but I feel the trailer jounce a bit on uneven concrete freeway or highway-bridge transitions.

Perhaps the porpoising is normal, perhaps not.  The 3/4 ton rams have coil springs, which may be a bit softer than leaf springs on GMs and Fords, although I understand that GM and Ford are using longer leaf springs in newer trucks to soften the ride.

Seems there are 3 options for reducing jounce: the Anderson WDH, stiffer shocks, or air bags.  I've resisted the Anderson because of the forum comments about hassling with the WDH.  Shocks would stiffen the ride all the time, even when empty, and the air bags would reduce sag (of which we don't have much, perhaps 1.5") but not necessarily add jounce control.  

The Ram manual recommends (but does not say "require") WDHs with trailer weights over 5k lbs, but it's a rather generic recommendation (it does not, for instance, distinguish between diesel and gas engines, the diesel being substantially heavier).  If I were towing 12k lbs there would be no question, but 5,800 lbs?

Anyway, this topic has been discussed in a variety of ways, but I'm interested in your thoughts about reducing porpoising in a 3/4 ton Ram, perhaps by adding the Anderson WDH or other measures.  (I'm reluctant to do this, knowing that some of you have celebrated ditching the Anderson!)

Thanks, Folks.

Fritz, just as an FYI, I don't know about newer Ram's but many Ford's have trailer anti-sway control built into their traction control software.  Anderson cautions against using the anti-sway control on the tow vehicle with their hitch (see below from their manual).

Also, if your tow vehicle manual recommends a WDH for your trailer given its weight, and you don't have one installed - and (this is the bad one) you have an accident, your insurance company could refuse to pay any claims as you were "not operating the vehicle in accordance with manufacturer specifications."  May be a long-shot, but I would include it in my decision making process.

Don't want to muddy the waters but thought I would throw this in.

[Pat Maundrell]

6 hours ago, Jim and Frances said:

Fritz, just as an FYI, I don't know about newer Ram's but many Ford's have trailer anti-sway control built into their traction control software.  Anderson cautions against using the anti-sway control on the tow vehicle with their hitch (see below from their manual).

Also, if your tow vehicle manual recommends a WDH for your trailer given its weight, and you don't have one installed - and (this is the bad one) you have an accident, your insurance company could refuse to pay any claims as you were "not operating the vehicle in accordance with manufacturer specifications."  May be a long-shot, but I would include it in my decision making process.

Don't want to muddy the waters but thought I would throw this in.

IMHO, I would be careful on how I would interpret statements like this! It has been my experienced that manufactures trend to make "these types of statements," simply for legal reasons. The bottom line is, "no manufacture, the size of Andersen," can spend the money to Test their products with all the different Vehicles in the Market Place! The costs involved in this type of testing is prohibited, only the Lawyers win. So, they make these Statements to get around the Legal issues.

[SeaDawg]

Pat, what's your TV? Does it have auto sway control?

I don't have a dog in the hunt,  because we don't have an Anderson,  and our trucks are too old for auto sway control.

BUT, if I  had an Anderson,  and a truck with antisway , and Anderson told me best to turn it off, that's what I'd do. Sounds like they might just fight each other, to the user's detriment?

[Fritz]

Thank you all for your responses.  John, thank you for directing me to the March discussion -- I had missed that.  I'm adding some weight to the truck, and will then weigh the truck, trailer, hitch, etc.  next time I see a closed weigh station along the freeway.  Then decide on something, or not.  Thanks all.

[Jim and Frances]

11 hours ago, Pat Maundrell said:

IMHO, I would be careful on how I would interpret statements like this! It has been my experienced that manufactures trend to make "these types of statements," simply for legal reasons. The bottom line is, "no manufacture, the size of Andersen," can spend the money to Test their products with all the different Vehicles in the Market Place! The costs involved in this type of testing is prohibited, only the Lawyers win. So, they make these Statements to get around the Legal issues.

Pat, you make a good point.  I was just sharing info from Anderson that I had not seen raised in this thread.  My assumption (I have no facts on this) is that the Anderson hitch would be better at mitigating trailer sway than a TV's software given that the last thing you want to do when you get cyclical sway starting is to apply TV brakes.  I think one could be opening themselves to potential liability with not turning off the TV's sway control as per Anderson's specifications.  Here is an article I found interesting on towing liabilities.  While it points more towards the use of WD hitches, it describes the need to follow the manufacturer's specifications - regardless of how many lawyers were involved in writing the specs!   😄

[Pat Maundrell]

11 hours ago, SeaDawg said:

Pat, what's your TV? Does it have auto sway control?

I don't have a dog in the hunt,  because we don't have an Anderson,  and our trucks are too old for auto sway control.

BUT, if I  had an Anderson,  and a truck with antisway , and Anderson told me best to turn it off, that's what I'd do. Sounds like they might just fight each other, to the user's detriment?

Our TV is a 2015 Mercedes Benz GL450, with the Gas engine, 14 MPG at 65 MPH. Sadly it doesn't have an Auto Sway System, wish it did.

IMHO, one of the biggest benefits of an Oliver, is that it doesn't necessarily require a big TV.  With a Loaded Tongue Weight under 600 LBS, this opens-up a lot of different TVs that can do the job! We considered another Airstream, but the models we were interested in all had higher Tongue Weights.

As far as Auto Sway System are concerned, I understand that about 90% of vehicles equipped with them cannot be switched off. As "High Tech" as most TV are becoming, these system are still pretty basic in their design. They simply measure the "Basic  Principles of Physics," and then apply the opposing side's Brakes to counter act these forces. However, these system are intended to take the place devices, like WDH with Sway control, the "Basic Principles of Physics," are still there!! 

I don't see a "Down Side," of using these Systems together with a WDH. However, you still must follow any manufactures recommendation!  I've contacted several Hitch Manufactures and they didn't share any Official position with me. I am waiting to hear from Andersen. Interesting, E Trailer has an After Market Auto Sway Control device for around $600.00, not installed. I agree with your concussion, "Sounds like they might just fight each other, to the user's detriment?" 

 

[Pat Maundrell]

8 minutes ago, Pat Maundrell said:

Our TV is a 2015 Mercedes Benz GL450, with the Gas engine, 14 MPG at 65 MPH. Sadly it doesn't have an Auto Sway System, wish it did.

IMHO, one of the biggest benefits of an Oliver, is that it doesn't necessarily require a big TV.  With a Loaded Tongue Weight under 600 LBS, this opens-up a lot of different TVs that can do the job! We considered another Airstream, but the models we were interested in all had higher Tongue Weights.

As far as Auto Sway System are concerned, I understand that about 90% of vehicles equipped with them cannot be switched off. As "High Tech" as most TV are becoming, these system are still pretty basic in their design. They simply measure the "Basic  Principles of Physics," and then apply the opposing side's Brakes to counter act these forces. However, these system are intended to take the place devices, like WDH with Sway control, the "Basic Principles of Physics," are still there!! 

I don't see a "Down Side," of using these Systems together with a WDH. However, you still must follow any manufactures recommendation!  I've contacted several Hitch Manufactures and they didn't share any Official position with me. I am waiting to hear from Andersen. Interesting, E Trailer has an After Market Auto Sway Control device for around $600.00, not installed. I agree with your concussion, "Sounds like they might just fight each other, to the user's detriment?" 

 

Should read, However, these system are NOT intended to take the place of devices, like WDH with Sway control, the "Basic Principles of Physics," are still there!!  Sorry.

[Pat Maundrell]

1 hour ago, Jim and Frances said:

Pat, you make a good point.  I was just sharing info from Anderson that I had not seen raised in this thread.  My assumption (I have no facts on this) is that the Anderson hitch would be better at mitigating trailer sway than a TV's software given that the last thing you want to do when you get cyclical sway starting is to apply TV brakes.  I think one could be opening themselves to potential liability with not turning off the TV's sway control as per Anderson's specifications.  Here is an article I found interesting on towing liabilities.  While it points more towards the use of WD hitches, it describes the need to follow the manufacturer's specifications - regardless of how many lawyers were involved in writing the specs!   😄

A Point of  clarification! Everything I read all indicates, that " When you first feel a Sway Condition Starting, you apply the Trailer Brakes first to help control the situation.  This is the beauty of these New Auto Sway Systems, the system knows what to do! Most Drivers don't understand this, much less have the time to think about it during a panic situation, hence an accident.

[Pat Maundrell]

On 6/28/2021 at 3:52 PM, Jim and Frances said:

Fritz, just as an FYI, I don't know about newer Ram's but many Ford's have trailer anti-sway control built into their traction control software.  Anderson cautions against using the anti-sway control on the tow vehicle with their hitch (see below from their manual).

Also, if your tow vehicle manual recommends a WDH for your trailer given its weight, and you don't have one installed - and (this is the bad one) you have an accident, your insurance company could refuse to pay any claims as you were "not operating the vehicle in accordance with manufacturer specifications."  May be a long-shot, but I would include it in my decision making process.

Don't want to muddy the waters but thought I would throw this in.

I am not sure if I agree with everything in Andersen's Statement!

 Example, from what I understand and have seen demonstrated in Videos, the Auto Sway Control System applies the Trailer's Brakes, not the TV's Brakes to counter act the Sway. As far as these systems miss-reading the inputs, because the TV is equipped with a WDH, this doesn't make any sense. We all know that most WDHs, that also have an Anti Sway Feature, are very affective at reducing Sway, Therefore, it stands to reason that the Forces are also reduced! The reduction in these Forces  are read by the Auto Sway System which then sends the adjusted signals. Note, the "After Market" has two difference Auto Sway Systems, that I aware of  that are available now, for around $500-$600.00. As I mentioned in an earlier Post, about 90% of newer TV with these systems cannot be turned off, and those are can be turned off, are not off 100%, but are just Detuned.

I've check with two WDH manufactures, (Andersen hasn't replied yet) and they both have no such recommendation. Additionally, "Can Am Airstream," which by all accounts is the leading authority on RV Towing, says that a WDH and an Auto Sway System complement each other! 

I  would recommend you follow the TV's recommendations!  

[Pat Maundrell]

I've done a little more research regarding Auto Sway Systems, both OEM and After Market.

1. They are not intended to take the place of a WDH with Sway Control. To get the "Best Quality Ride" and the "Safest Ride," it difficult to beat a WDH with Sway Control combination!

2. Several suppliers of After Market systems confirm that these devices are compatible with WDHs.

3. I understand that some say they can Turned Off, but they aren't 100% off, just detuned>

4. Some Systems may not be compatible with all OEM Brake Controls, these are outline in their instructions.

5. The WDH's Sway Control Operating Range is expanded with a Electronic Auto Sway Control Device.

6. After Market Systems (not installed) range from $200.00 - $600.00, installation from $100.00- $400.00.