Bill and Nancy's Furnace is cycling on and off every 2 minutes

[Bill and Nancy]

I don’t know about 2020 but 2023 come with truma furnaces and AC. We tried to up grade to truma but they were not available in October on our 2022 model but you can up grade now for about $4,000.00 I think. Don’t hold me to that but I think that’s about where the price is

 

[katanapilot]

12 hours ago, Bill and Nancy said:

 If Katanapilot  happens to see this post, I see in your picture you have a RV7A I built a Vari Eze a Long Ez and an RV7, Ive sold them all and bought a BMW 1200GS and an Oliver, go figure! Hence the email N227EZ@gmail.com

Bill

From a couple of homebuilt airplanes to a motorcycle.  Your risk tolerance is a bit higher than mine!  Interesting you went from composite to sheet metal - wish I had your composite skills.  I very much dislike the fiberglass work - mostly because I'm very bad at it.  The RV-10 I just built had a lot more fiberglass work than the RV-7A.

Sorry for the thread drift.

[Bill and Nancy]

Check out www.wildbird.zenfolio.com  I have a bunch of pictures of my long ez there. I got priced out of the aviation market with fuel and everything especially avionics it wasn’t fun any more. Plus up in MA a lot of little airports closed and most of my flying buddies are gone or moved on to other things. I still have access to a 182 that I fly now and then. It’s time for a new adventure. 

[Bill and Nancy]

I figured I would give an up date. I spoke to Dometic today and they said that I need to bring it to a Dometic service center to have it fixed under warranty . They gave me the name of 3 service centers within 50 miles of me. None of them will work on the furnace under warranty because they do not sell Olivers. However they will work on the furnace at shop rate and none of them can look at it until January the earliest. One guy felt bad and told me that the way the warranty works is they get paid by the RV manufacturer not Dometic and the RV manufacture gets re reimbursed Dometic, so I get it its not their fault, but that kind of hangs me out to dry.  I called Dometic back and they spoke to a supervisor and they sent me a furnace performance checklist to fill out and if I fill it out and send it in they will send me a new control board if everything checks out. So I said ok but I will need a wiring schematic so I know where to test the voltages at. They said we can't do that because of liability issues you will need to bring it to a service center and have them fill it out. It's just one big circle so I ordered a propane test gauge so I can test the gas pressure and I watched a dozen or more videos on things to try and I found  some manuals on line. This is going no where. I called and left a message for Mike at Oliver tonight and told him what was going on and asked him to call me. My thought is to bring it to a service center and have them fix it even if I have to wait until January. I will pay the service center for the repair then forward the bill to Oliver for reimbursement and let Oliver fight it out with Dometic. We will have to wait to hear back from Mike to see what he thinks I should do.

[topgun2]

Bill and Nancy -

Sorry for your problems with the furnace.  If it makes you feel any better (I doubt that it will but misery loves company) several years ago I too had warranty issues with Dometic. 

Got the same kind of "run around" that you seem to be getting.  After spending two trips to an RV service center, hours on the phone with Dometic and numerous emails I finally decided that I had invested too much time it getting them to warranty a $60 CO/Propane detector.  Therefore - I gave up and they won.  Bums me out to this day to say that.☹️

Bill

[Rivernerd]

25 minutes ago, Bill and Nancy said:

They gave me the name of 3 service centers within 50 miles of me. None of them will work on the furnace under warranty because they do not sell Olivers.

Ergo, there is no effective warranty on Dometic products installed in Oliver trailers.  Oliver passes the buck to Dometic, which has no service centers that will work on Dometic products installed in Olivers, because Oliver has no dealers.  A complete circle of coverage denial.  As a retired trial lawyer, this gets my blood pumping.

27 minutes ago, Bill and Nancy said:

I called and left a message for Mike at Oliver tonight and told him what was going on and asked him to call me.

Although we have a Truma furnace, we have other Dometic products installed in our 2022 Elite II, including the cooktop and toilet.  I am quite interested to hear Mike's response.  Please report. 

[SeaDawg]

Back several years ago, we had a problem with our dometic fridge. Our local camping world service center took very good care of us, under warranty. 

Do you have a camping world, or other authorized dometic repair center, close to you? If the other centers are brand centric, they may not be as helpful.

[Bill and Nancy]

I spent better part of a day again and I think I’m going to bite the bullet and buy a new control board. Mike from Oliver is going to call some service centers and try and twist their arm and get back to me. I found that if the trailer temp is say 50 degrees and you set the thermostat to 60 degrees the fan will run and the flame stays lit for 15 minutes until the temperature is reached or almost reached. Then the fan stays on and the flame goes out then re lights then goes out sometime only seconds apart and other time minutes apart. In any case it will do this for up to 10 minutes before shutting off. I can’t imagine it could be anything else than the control board or a messed up thermostat. I’m looking into seeing if I can put a totally separate thermostat to run just the furnace and leave the AC on the other one.  A nice simple on off thermostat just for the furnace. 
 

[Mark and Lorraine]

I’m having issues with the furnace not working below 45 degrees, and then not working at all. A local dealer is providing service for Dometic. They jumped the wires at the furnace to bypass the thermostat and the furnace fired and ran fine. They’ve replaced the thermostat but the issue continues. They’re now trying to evaluate the circuits from the AC. We live in Michigan and didn’t use the AC all summer but it worked fine at delivery in May and at the rally. I’ll update as the process continues. 
 

 

[Bill and Nancy]

23 hours ago, Mark and Lorraine said:

I’m having issues with the furnace not working below 45 degrees, and then not working at all. A local dealer is providing service for Dometic. They jumped the wires at the furnace to bypass the thermostat and the furnace fired and ran fine. They’ve replaced the thermostat but the issue continues. They’re now trying to evaluate the circuits from the AC. We live in Michigan and didn’t use the AC all summer but it worked fine at delivery in May and at the rally. I’ll update as the process continues. 
 

 

I’m extremely busy this time of year and I don’t have any free time. But after the holidays I hope to get to the bottom of this. I’ve been all over the place with Oliver and Domestic on this issue. I’ve already spent a lot of time doing diagnostics. I picked up a battery operated thermostat with the intentions of bypassing the existing thermostat completely. I will update with what I find but it most likely won’t happen until after new years .

Merry Christmas 

[GAP]

These heat system problems and winter worthiness of the Olivers is frustrating on a number of levels.  First and foremost, OTT should certainly not allow for multiple folks with similar heat system problems on trailers still under warrantee, fight it out with manufacturers and service centers, especially with the upcoming winter.  I feel it's their lot in life to cover the cost of repair themselves and fight it out with Dometic.  

On another level, I have found through both first hand experience and related stories here on multiple forum entries, that Olivers are lacking in capacity to handle even modest winter temps that stay below low 20s for multiple days.  I obviously can't speak for everyone's experience but have found myself and yet to hear of someone who 1) had their water system on, 2) was camping for multiple days where temps did not get above low 20s and 3) did not skirt the bottom of their trailer, who did not find temperatures in the most exposed water lines to be perilously close or below freezing-primarily the exterior shower, under forward dinette and rear most part of garage.  Please share any positive experience in similar conditions. 

In communicating directly with Oliver, the response was that there is no problem.  They suggested problems could be attributed to running propane tanks too low, running "summer mix" fuel, operating in high altitude and wind conditions.  All are valid potential sources of issues but I've camped in ideal conditions free of any and still had freezing in those vulnerable spots.  My thought is that even if out of warrantee, those of us that have had these problems should open a ticket and share with OTT.  They are a great company that I would bet would respond in a way that, at least benefits future owners.  In a perfect world, they would also offer us current owners to make air flow (= cutting vents) improvements free of charge at the factory.  It's important to remember that, being in the south, they are in a part of the world that has a warmish winter.  That said, I'll give a big thumbs up to earlier post that suggested it is past-time for OTT to have a HVAC specialist come in and go through the system.  I won't pretend to be an expert but with my mad scientist experiments, seems that most if not all Oliver cold weather issues can be fixed with better vent placement and some tactical insulation improvements which would make for a cheap and seemingly easy process.

[Rivernerd]

56 minutes ago, GAP said:

My thought is that even if out of warranty, those of us that have had these problems should open a ticket and share with OTT.

Good suggestion. 

Oliver has already chosen to install Truma Varioheat furnaces in all 2023 models.  I believe the improvement in cold-weather performance in trailers with that furnace are due to Truma's insistence on use of Truma's specified ducting and design, including the return air vent in the bathroom.

But, our experience camping with our Varioheat-equipped Oliver in single digit overnight temps above 5000 feet indicates that additional improvements, including more insulation in critical areas and additional furnace return air vents, could move the Oliver toward becoming a true "4-season trailer" even in more extreme climates.  I believe Oliver does care about improving the quality of its products as the model years go by, and so would welcome the input.  In my judgment, the Oliver is already superior to Airstream's offerings, or we would own an Airstream.  Such improvements may not cost much more during production, and yet could push Oliver even further ahead of its competition.

[Mike and Carol]

From what I’ve seen over the years, the number of owners who regularly camp in severe conditions is small.  In the beginning that was probably just a few.  As more and more trailers are built and sold that number is increasing, although still a small minority.  Most of us that do camp in very cold weather do it for short periods of time because we don’t find that kind of cold enjoyable.  Voicing these issues by those who like consistent cold weather camping is enlightening and I’m sure Oliver is noticing.  Maybe these suggestions will result in meaningful cold weather capability improvements.  Extra insulation in the right spots is not expensive.  An HVAC expert could help re-engineer the heat/ducting design.  It seems to be to be a cost effective way to increase cold weather capability.  Mike

[GAP]

27 minutes ago, Rivernerd said:

Good suggestion. 

Oliver has already chosen to install Truma Varioheat furnaces in all 2023 models.  I believe the improvement in cold-weather performance in trailers with that furnace are due to Truma's insistence on use of Truma's specified ducting and design, including the return air vent in the bathroom.

But, our experience camping with our Varioheat-equipped Oliver in single digit overnight temps above 5000 feet indicates that additional improvements, including more insulation in critical areas and additional furnace return air vents, could move the Oliver toward becoming a true "4-season trailer" even in more extreme climates.  I believe Oliver does care about improving the quality of its products as the model years go by, and so would welcome the input.  In my judgment, the Oliver is already superior to Airstream's offerings, or we would own an Airstream.  Such improvements may not cost much more during production, and yet could push Oliver even further ahead of its competition.

I agree on all counts. 

As a Dometic heat source owner, I'm certainly suffer Truma envy.  Given the hand dealt me, I am super curious as to the alterations made to improve 4 season capacity in the new models.  I had heard of the ducting through the bathroom (which I had already done to my unit) but this is the first mention of added insulation.  Would love to hear some gory details if you are willing to share.  May make for a good template for my additional tweaks.  Can you relay placement of additional vents, type of insulation and placement?  Much appreciated.

Gerry

[Rivernerd]

23 minutes ago, GAP said:

Can you relay placement of additional vents, type of insulation and placement?  Much appreciated.

Oliver has added no insulation, and no other return air vents so far.  I reference "more insulation" and "additional return air vents" in my post above as recommended "additional improvements" that Oliver could implement going forward.

[John and Debbie]

1 hour ago, Rivernerd said:

Good suggestion. 

Oliver has already chosen to install Truma Varioheat furnaces in all 2023 models.  I believe the improvement in cold-weather performance in trailers with that furnace are due to Truma's insistence on use of Truma's specified ducting and design, including the return air vent in the bathroom.

But, our experience camping with our Varioheat-equipped Oliver in single digit overnight temps above 5000 feet indicates that additional improvements, including more insulation in critical areas and additional furnace return air vents, could move the Oliver toward becoming a true "4-season trailer" even in more extreme climates.  I believe Oliver does care about improving the quality of its products as the model years go by, and so would welcome the input.  In my judgment, the Oliver is already superior to Airstream's offerings, or we would own an Airstream.  Such improvements may not cost much more during production, and yet could push Oliver even further ahead of its competition.

I agree.  We both camped in very cold temperatures coming back in November and the Truma furnace was able to keep me warm even at 5°

[Mike and Carol]

Does everyone who is experiencing this have the same thermostat?

[Frank C]

2 hours ago, Mike and Carol said:

Does everyone who is experiencing this have the same thermostat?

I’d also be curious if everyone experiencing this has the king bed option, instead of the twin beds.  The king bed may be creating a very different airflow pattern in the cabin from the rear most hot air supply vent back to the return vent. 

[Bill and Nancy]

I have the Dometic furnace and thermostat. When I get a minute I plan to isolate the two wires that go from the furnace to the controller in the AC. I will then use a volt meter to determine when the thermostat is calling for heat. If the flame goes out and I still have 12 volts on the open side of the switch then its not the thermostat causing the problem it would have to be something internal in the furnace.  I need to Isolate one problem at a time I ruled out air flow both on the supply and return. At this point  I believe its in the control board in the AC but I need to dig a little deeper to be sure.

[Bill and Nancy]

Yes I agree with your definition of short cycling, I am experiencing a different problem. When the temperature in the trailer gets close to the temperature displayed on the thermostat the flame goes out then re-lights anywhere from seconds apart to minutes apart, this will continue 10 or more time in less than 8 minutes until the desired temperature is reached. But I do believe there is more than one problem so I need to figure out why the flame keeps going out first, then move to the next step. 

[bhncb]

1 hour ago, CnC said:

I wouldn't think so.

First, there should be a clear definition of "short cycling."  When I refer to short cycling, I'm using the HVAC definition, which basically means supply air does not distribute before returning to the unit - whether that be a furnace, an air conditioner or both.

Charlie.

This thread needs to be split in two because the original problem/post introduced by Bill and Nancy diverged with the post by Doug Grove on the 28th. B&N is working on what is likely to be an electrical problem between the furnace and thermostat where as  DG has introduced an issue that is appears more similar to a typical short cycle condition.  There has been quite a bit of valuable information provided by relevant replies to both issues but it seems some really valuable information is getting. lost due to the confusion. 

 

[Geronimo John]

On 12/8/2022 at 9:31 AM, bhncb said:

This thread needs to be split in two because the original problem/post introduced by Bill and Nancy diverged with the post by Doug Grove on the 28th. B&N is working on what is likely to be an electrical problem between the furnace and thermostat where as  DG has introduced an issue that is appears more similar to a typical short cycle condition. 

Clark:  I agree, but at this point with so many posts likely would take quite a bit of effort to untangle the birds nest.

[ScubaRx]

On 12/8/2022 at 1:31 PM, bhncb said:

This thread needs to be split in two because the original problem/post introduced by Bill and Nancy diverged with the post by Doug Grove on the 28th. B&N is working on what is likely to be an electrical problem between the furnace and thermostat where as  DG has introduced an issue that is appears more similar to a typical short cycle condition.  There has been quite a bit of valuable information provided by relevant replies to both issues but it seems some really valuable information is getting. lost due to the confusion. 

 

 

3 hours ago, Geronimo John said:

Clark:  I agree, but at this point with so many posts likely would take quite a bit of effort to untangle the birds nest.

And I most wholeheartedly agree with both of you. I get really tired of seeing folks hijack someone else's thread with a similar (but actually unrelated) problem of their own and then everyone gets confused and nobody gets any help. I've reread the entire thread and as BHNCB stated there's TWO different issues here and they're not interrelated. We could close this entire thread and everyone can start their own, but that's not fair to Bill and Nancy.

I have renamed the thread:

"Bill and Nancy's Furnace is cycling on and off every 2 minutes" 

• and hence forth anything posted here should pertain only to the problems that Bill and Nancy are having. Additionally I am going to attempt to move non-pertinent posts to another thread. This will likely result in some apparent discontinuity in both threads.
• Please folks, in the future, start another thread that addresses your problem rather than tagging it into an existing one.

[bhncb]

2 minutes ago, ScubaRx said:

 

And I most wholeheartedly agree with both of you. I get really tired of seeing folks hijack someone else's thread with a similar (but actually unrelated) problem of their own and then everyone gets confused and nobody gets any help. I've reread the entire thread and as BHNCB stated there's TWO different issues here and they're not interrelated. We could close this entire thread and everyone can start their own, but that's not fair to Bill and Nancy.

I have renamed the thread:

"Bill and Nancy's Furnace is cycling on and off every 2 minutes" 

• and hence forth anything posted here should pertain only to the problems that Bill and Nancy are having. Additionally I am going to attempt to move non-pertinent posts to another thread. This will likely result in some apparent discontinuity in both threads.

I don't believe this was a hijack so much as a lack of understanding of the problem originally presented. Complicated issues sometime take a lot of sorting through to determine what might be actually going on and it's easy to get sidetracked by focusing on specific wording of a symptom. 

There have been a number of key points presented for both issues. It's easy for me to sift these out and follow the  thread(s) because of my understanding of the systems involved, but I was hoping to point out that there are in fact two separate discussions going on and thereby avoid confusion going forward. Bill and Nancy's most recent reply at 1:30 on Thursday must have come in as I was typing my comment but this post does a lot to re-rail things for those that have been trying to follow the thread.

[ScubaRx]

4 hours ago, bhncb said:

I don't believe this was a hijack so much as a lack of understanding of the problem originally presented. ...

I never thought this was an intentional hijack, but it turned in to one never the less. As you stated, "...B&N is working on what is likely to be an electrical problem between the furnace and thermostat where as  DG has introduced an issue that is appears more similar to a typical short cycle condition..." They each needed to have their own thread.