Faraday pouches for Tow Vehicle key fobs.

[Patriot]

With most of us having a substantial amount of money wrapped up in our TVs, I  thought this gentleman’s testimony in his short YouTube vid might be of interest. If anyone is using a faraday pouch for your fob or iPhones please post up with what you’re using. Due to the larger size of my TV fob I opted for this pouch. I will post up my review when I receive it. I am interested in our groups thoughts, suggestions and ideas.

 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01H1C21O2?SubscriptionId=AKIAIBX4MGJBG42TO3NQ&tag=productsbestrv144763-20&asc_source=google&asc_campaign=077&asc_refurl=https%3A%2F%2Fbestreviews.com%2Fbest-key-fob-faraday-bag&#customerReviews
 

 

[Ollie-Haus]

This video was also part of my research that convinced be to also use faraday pouches for our key fobs. 

Interestingly, rolling a fob up in a piece of aluminum foil is very effective as well in a pinch. Our spare fobs are stored in a metal safe that is very effective in that application. 

Until I discovered this topic, I had no idea a person with a scanner could walk past you in a parking lot, steal your fob's radio codes and than drive off with your vehicle as soon as you are out of sight. Amazing!

Edit - The pouches I bought:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071KVWTYZ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

[topgun2]

I too am on board.

I bought two of THESE - I keep one in the console of the truck and keep the other in the Ollie with the spare key.

I find that the hinged lid makes it easy to get the key in and out.

When I'm out fishing I don't want to carry my fob with me in the event I get wet.  Therefore, I almost always leave the fob in the truck and use the key pad on the door of the Ford to gain entry when I come back.  The obvious "problem" with this before I had the metal container was that someone could read the Fob, smash a window and simply drive off or duplicate the key and use that duplicate to gain entry.  Either way - its usually a long walk back to the camper!

Bill

[Mike and Carol]

We ordered a box and two pouches that we’ve been using for some time.  Car thefts are up around here, they get close to the house, do a scan for the key inside the house then drive your vehicle away.  Our car and truck are in a locked garage, but the faraday box is extra insurance.  We use the pouches when traveling.  Mike

[rideandfly]

2 hours ago, Patriot said:

With most of us having a substantial amount of money wrapped up in our TVs, I  thought this gentleman’s testimony in his short YouTube vid might be of interest. If anyone is using a faraday pouch for your fob or iPhones please post up with what you’re using. Due to the larger size of my TV fob I opted for this pouch. I will post up my review when I receive it. I am interested in our groups thoughts, suggestions and ideas.

 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01H1C21O2?SubscriptionId=AKIAIBX4MGJBG42TO3NQ&tag=productsbestrv144763-20&asc_source=google&asc_campaign=077&asc_refurl=https%3A%2F%2Fbestreviews.com%2Fbest-key-fob-faraday-bag&#customerReviews
 

 

David,

Ordered a two pack from your link.

Thanks,

Bill

[SeaDawg]

Funny how we come full circle.

Kids today can figure out (and, hack) anything electronic.  

Back in the day, it was just a few wires .. 

Thanks for the info.

I have aluminum foil always in the trailer. Wrap it up. Simple Faraday cage, very cheap. Reusable. 

[Patriot]

1 hour ago, rideandfly said:

David,

Ordered a two pack from your link.

Thanks,

Bill

Bill,

I will be interested to hear your review. 
 

David

[rideandfly]

10 hours ago, Patriot said:

Bill,

I will be interested to hear your review. 
 

David

Will do!
 

Thinking about this issue when camping last month. 

[AlbertNTerri]

9 hours ago, topgun2 said:

I too am on board.

I bought two of THESE - I keep one in the console of the truck and keep the other in the Ollie with the spare key.

I find that the hinged lid makes it easy to get the key in and out.

When I'm out fishing I don't want to carry my fob with me in the event I get wet.  Therefore, I almost always leave the fob in the truck and use the key pad on the door of the Ford to gain entry when I come back.  The obvious "problem" with this before I had the metal container was that someone could read the Fob, smash a window and simply drive off or duplicate the key and use that duplicate to gain entry.  Either way - its usually a long walk back to the camper!

Bill

Those look like Altoid containers, I'm going to try using one of those first and if it doesn't work I'll go to one of the other suggested items. I looked up the pouch mentioned in the video and then looked up some of the other pouches Amazon has listed, After looking through the reviews on all the ones I checked there are multiple complaints that they either don't work or only block the RF for a few weeks or months then stop working which makes me a bit gun-shy to spring for the fancy pouch (I know the guy in the video said that after  months his still worked, but even the one he recommended had the same complaints). The Altoid container on the other hand is simple enough and you get a free supply of Altoids and it's cheaper than the plain boxes offered on Amazon. I think I'll try a cinnamon container first, if that doesn't work then I'll try a peppermint one. 

a. 

[Patriot]

3 hours ago, AlbertNTerri said:

Those look like Altoid containers, I'm going to try using one of those first and if it doesn't work I'll go to one of the other suggested items. I looked up the pouch mentioned in the video and then looked up some of the other pouches Amazon has listed, After looking through the reviews on all the ones I checked there are multiple complaints that they either don't work or only block the RF for a few weeks or months then stop working which makes me a bit gun-shy to spring for the fancy pouch (I know the guy in the video said that after  months his still worked, but even the one he recommended had the same complaints). The Altoid container on the other hand is simple enough and you get a free supply of Altoids and it's cheaper than the plain boxes offered on Amazon. I think I'll try a cinnamon container first, if that doesn't work then I'll try a peppermint one. 

a. 

I have heard the empty altoid peppermint boxes last longer than the cinnamon.😄

Please post up your findings. 

[Ollie-Haus]

4 hours ago, AlbertNTerri said:

Those look like Altoid containers, I'm going to try using one of those first and if it doesn't work I'll go to one of the other suggested items. I looked up the pouch mentioned in the video and then looked up some of the other pouches Amazon has listed, After looking through the reviews on all the ones I checked there are multiple complaints that they either don't work or only block the RF for a few weeks or months then stop working which makes me a bit gun-shy to spring for the fancy pouch (I know the guy in the video said that after  months his still worked, but even the one he recommended had the same complaints). The Altoid container on the other hand is simple enough and you get a free supply of Altoids and it's cheaper than the plain boxes offered on Amazon. I think I'll try a cinnamon container first, if that doesn't work then I'll try a peppermint one. 

a. 

I think your plan is very sound. On the other hand I tried a similar metal box from some other product and it was only marginally effective. If you got right up against the door handle the touch door locks would still unlock. Also even though the fob was in the box, with the box sitting on the console arm rest the truck still started.

On the other hand the pouches I got from Amazon are nearly a year old and the truck still will not respond in any way with the fob in the closed pouch regardless of where you put the pouch in the truck, including placing the pouch with the fob right in the tray of the console near the receiver. 

The fob rolled up in a few layers of aluminum foil is just as effective. 

I think every item on Amazon has at least a small percentage of negative reviews, no matter how good the product is. As long as an item rates 4 stars or better I pretty much disregard the negative reviews as spurious, or even the competition planting the negative reviews in hopes of bolstering their competing products.  

Whichever method works to your satisfaction, I think it's well worth the trouble for the added security and peace of mind considering the cost of vehicles and even the difficulty of replacing one these days. I just edited my previous post and added the Amazon link to the pouches I bought. I'm pleased with the overall performance of this pouch to date. 

[MAX Burner]

12 hours ago, rideandfly said:

Ordered a two pack from your link.

Thanks,

Same here, good call, @Patriot, TKX!

[topgun2]

4 hours ago, AlbertNTerri said:

Those look like Altoid containers, I'm going to try using one of those first and if it doesn't work I'll go to one of the other suggested items

Actually, I tried the Altoid box but it wasn't big enough for my fob to fit in it easily.  

We used to place our fob's in a ceramic bowl in the breakfast room but stopped that when we first heard about this "new" way of stealing a vehicle.  So, we now use a simple metal can in the house versus the bowl.  I opted for the hinged lid for inside the truck because it was easier to get the lid on and off versus prying a friction fit lid off a regular can.  Also, my issue with the foil was that it would get "wadded up and I'd have to get a new sheet.  I did test my metal box and the truck would not open from the outside when I placed the box on or near the handle.  But, I did not try to start the truck when the fob is inside the metal box inside the truck - that gives me something to do today!

Bill

[Patriot]

37 minutes ago, topgun2 said:

Actually, I tried the Altoid box but it wasn't big enough for my fob to fit in it easily.  

We used to place our fob's in a ceramic bowl in the breakfast room but stopped that when we first heard about this "new" way of stealing a vehicle.  So, we now use a simple metal can in the house versus the bowl.  I opted for the hinged lid for inside the truck because it was easier to get the lid on and off versus prying a friction fit lid off a regular can.  Also, my issue with the foil was that it would get "wadded up and I'd have to get a new sheet.  I did test my metal box and the truck would not open from the outside when I placed the box on or near the handle.  But, I did not try to start the truck when the fob is inside the metal box inside the truck - that gives me something to do today!

Bill

Bill,

I have a locker down console vault and when I placed my spare key fob inside the vault, the truck started normally. I post this to only point out the console vault will not ghost the RF signal. My faraday pouches should arrive today. I will post up my review.

[Patriot]

1 hour ago, Ollie-Haus said:

I think every item on Amazon has at least a small percentage of negative reviews, no matter how good the product is. As long as an item rates 4 stars or better I pretty much disregard the negative reviews as spurious, or even the competition planting the negative reviews in hopes of bolstering their competing products.  

💯on point Chris, I agree.

[rideandfly]

2 hours ago, Ollie-Haus said:

I think your plan is very sound. On the other hand I tried a similar metal box from some other product and it was only marginally effective. If you got right up against the door handle the touch door locks would still unlock. Also even though the fob was in the box, with the box sitting on the console arm rest the truck still started.

On the other hand the pouches I got from Amazon are nearly a year old and the truck still will not respond in any way with the fob in the closed pouch regardless of where you put the pouch in the truck, including placing the pouch with the fob right in the tray of the console near the receiver. 

The fob rolled up in a few layers of aluminum foil is just as effective. 

I think every item on Amazon has at least a small percentage of negative reviews, no matter how good the product is. As long as an item rates 4 stars or better I pretty much disregard the negative reviews as spurious, or even the competition planting the negative reviews in hopes of bolstering their competing products.  

Whichever method works to your satisfaction, I think it's well worth the trouble for the added security and peace of mind considering the cost of vehicles and even the difficulty of replacing one these days. I just edited my previous post and added the Amazon link to the pouches I bought. I'm pleased with the overall performance of this pouch to date. 

Experimented with a small all metal cookie box as a Faraday container a few years ago and found it would not work well unless lined with aluminum foil.  That's why I wanted to test the Faraday Pouches from Amazon, should arrive tomorrow.

[shhQuiet]

Faraday pouch is probably a good idea-- the latest Ford key fobs have a motion sensor that will turn them off after 40 seconds of no motion, so they don't respond to relay attacks.  But, of course, thieves are smart and always outsmarting defenses.  Because so many parts of newer cars have micro-controllers, those vehicles basically have a built-in local area network for communication between components.  There have been some thefts of newer cars where thieves break a headlight and use the connection to hack into the network to unlock the doors and turn on the ignition.

Security reminds me of surviving a bear attack-  You don't have to be faster than the bear, just faster than the guy running beside you!  If your car is harder to steal, thieves will move on to an easier target.

[topgun2]

3 hours ago, topgun2 said:

I did test my metal box and the truck would not open from the outside when I placed the box on or near the handle.  But, I did not try to start the truck when the fob is inside the metal box inside the truck - that gives me something to do today!

Well, I'll be ....

Sure enough, the metal box continues to NOT allow the door to be opened - there is simply no response from the truck with the doors or lights or automatic deployment of the step - no matter how close or in what position I place the box.

However, as with Patriot's safe in the console, the truck started!  I placed the metal box inside the console, outside the console, in the back seat, and under the seat - all with the same result.  Interesting!

Bill

[John Dorrer]

As far as our tow vehicle 2013 F250, back in 2014 I had a Ravelco anti-theft system installed. As of a year ago they had never had a vehicle stolen. They can't hot wire, or start the truck unless the Ravelco FOB is plugged in. Back then I paid around $400. They are headquartered in Houston and have install dealers across the country. They would have to pull the truck onto a flatbed.

Our  2019 Ford Edge is a different story. We keep our keys in the house on the table or on my wife's purse, and may get a metal box, or just wrap them in foil. 

As far as push button starts, not sure whether Ravelco can install in these late model vehicles.

I will be following this.

 

 

[topgun2]

16 minutes ago, topgun2 said:

Interesting!

A bit of quick "Google" research gets some answers.

Apparently a "tin" box simply isn't as good as a box that is constructed out of a "heavier" metal - think lead here.  Also, tin boxes have one or more seams from which signals can "leak".  And, the lid on the metal box must fit VERY tightly in order to prevent signal from getting out.

Now, why, in my experiment, the fob in the metal box could not be "seen" by the sensor(s) on either the driver's side nor the passenger side doors while it was easily seen inside the truck - I have no idea other than guessing about the strength of the sensor.

This would indicate that the metal box used inside one's house could be effective in preventing a bad guy from stealing the vehicle's codes which would allow them to drive the vehicle away.

I'll re-try the experiment with a box (I'll use the same one) lined with aluminum foil to see what happens even though this foil wouldn't stop signal leakage from the lid.

Bill

 

[rideandfly]

When I tested the metal box lined with aluminum foil, the lid was also lined with aluminum foil with overlap of foil from the lid and box. A few years ago my testing was with a cell phone's ability to receive calls and messages while in a unlined metal box that failed, but with aluminum foil liner the phone could not receive calls and messages.  Not sure if that test is relevant with a FOB, but that was my test a few years ago.

One of the things that got me thinking about this again (not Faraday cage related) while on a camping trip last January, I could pick up someone's Victron Bluetooth signal (guessing 50' away) with my Victron Shunt app. Highly recommend using a different PW other than the original multiple 0 PW with the Victron app.

[Ollie-Haus]

21 minutes ago, rideandfly said:

One of the things that got me thinking about this again while on a camping trip last January, I could pick up someone's Victron Bluetooth signal (guessing 50' away) with my Victron Shunt app. Highly recommend using a different PW other than the original multiple 0 PW with the Victron app.

This can also be the case with the Lithionics battery Bluetooth connection and their app. There's suppose to be a safety built into the batteries that once they have been connected to a phone via the app, they cannot be connected to another phone without deleting. I don't know if the batteries are even visible to another phone once they are connected to yours, but regardless setting your own password for that Bluetooth connection would be a wise step to take. 

Now that I think of it, I may do some experimenting to see if a different phone will indicate the presents of the Lithionics batteries when I pull up the app. Even though the batteries may not be able to be connected to the phone, it would be an easy way for a thief to target a camper for stealing the batteries if they are able to use the app to pinpoint campers that have these batteries. Geesh this all makes my head heart. 🙄

[topgun2]

40 minutes ago, topgun2 said:

I'll re-try the experiment with a box (I'll use the same one) lined with aluminum foil to see what happens even though this foil wouldn't stop signal leakage from the lid.

Now - this is interesting ----

I lined the metal box with aluminum foil with the exception of the lid.

Now, when approaching the truck - about ten feet away - the truck's courtesy lights come on, the doors unlock and the running boards deploy.  So, I didn't even get inside to see if the truck would start since my lined box failed even step one.

Next I'll try lining the lid but that will have to be tomorrow.

Bill

p.s.  thanks to Patriot for busting my safety bubble!

[rideandfly]

2 hours ago, Ollie-Haus said:

Even though the batteries may not be able to be connected to the phone, it would be an easy way for a thief to target a camper for stealing the batteries if they are able to use the app to pinpoint campers that have these batteries. Geesh this all makes my head heart. 🙄

Sorry about Non-Faraday cage related content, but still security related. 

Believe it could be easy to find out where the Bluetooth signal is coming from by walking by campers and looking at bars of Bluetooth signal. In the case of Victron my shunt works with various types of batteries, so your PW is needed to identify type of battery in a camper, original default PW can be used to look at type of battery by anyone, don't know about other Bluetooth apps.

Can't wait to test the Faraday Pouches tomorrow! 🙂

[John Dorrer]

16 minutes ago, Ollie-Haus said:

This can also be the case with the Lithionics battery Bluetooth connection and their app. There's suppose to be a safety built into the batteries that once they have been connected to a phone via the app, they cannot be connected to another phone without deleting. I don't know if the batteries are even visible to another phone once they are connected to yours, but regardless setting your own password for that Bluetooth connection would be a wise step to take. 

Now that I think of it, I may do some experimenting to see if a different phone will indicate the presents of the Lithionics batteries when I pull up the app. Even though the batteries may not be able to be connected to the phone, it would be an easy way for a thief to target a camper for stealing the batteries if they are able to use the app to pinpoint campers that have these batteries. Geesh this all makes my head heart. 🙄

Both our phones have the Lithonics phone app and we have checked the batteries from both phones, not at the same time.