Made in USA leaf springs

[John Dorrer]

3 hours ago, hobo said:

John,

I will be talking to Mike at ALCAN tomorrow (Monday) and ask him about that.  My springs are being produced on Wednesday so I'll get this straightened out before they are built.  I'll report back tomorrow after I talk to him.  The term for our springs is "underslung" (vs overslung).

Thanks👍

[ScubaRx]

9 hours ago, John Welte said:

We have #1290.  We're in Australia now, but do you know if the leaf springs that we have are 4 or 5 leaf?  We mostly keep to freeways, but some freeways are dodgy.  I am thinking of I70 in eastern Colorado.  I am just wondering how serious the issue is with mostly freeway driving.

John 

John, I don’t think there’s any rhyme or reason to why, or when the springs are breaking. They are breaking due to metal fatigue, and or the quality of the steel that they were originally made from.

[Rivernerd]

11 hours ago, John Welte said:

We have #1290.  We're in Australia now, but do you know if the leaf springs that we have are 4 or 5 leaf?

John:

As you know, we have Hull #1291, 1 after yours.  Our springs are 4-leaf, so I am sure your are also 4-leaf.

[Rivernerd]

6 hours ago, hobo said:

The term for our springs is "underslung" (vs overslung).

Please advise Mike at ALCAN that all of our Oliver trailers are underslung.

Edited March 10 by Rivernerd

[jd1923]

Is this what's OEM on our Elite II trailers? 4-Leaf Double-Eye Spring for 5,000-lb Trailer Axles - 25-1/4" Long etrailer Trailer Leaf Springs e44SR

I could measure myself and/or search the forum, but if one of you know...

Our OTT has 4 very straight leaf spring assemblies. I just worked the brakes, replaced the bearings with Timken... If this is a direct replacement, I should just buy one and put it first in the bottom of my truck toolbox.

[Ollie-Haus]

Just sent off an email to Alcan Spring for information for a set of 4 springs for our LE2. I would like to be proactive in replacing the springs in my driveway rather than on the side of the highway. Plus I am a real big fan of supporting American manufacturing companies. 

Edited March 11 by Ollie-Haus

[ScubaRx]

2 hours ago, jd1923 said:

Is this what's OEM on our Elite II trailers? 4-Leaf Double-Eye Spring for 5,000-lb Trailer Axles - 25-1/4" Long etrailer Trailer Leaf Springs e44SR

I could measure myself and/or search the forum, but if one of you know...

Our OTT has 4 very straight leaf spring assemblies. I just worked the brakes, replaced the bearings with Timken... If this is a direct replacement, I should just buy one and put it first in the bottom of my truck toolbox.

John, The springs ARE 25-1/4" on center to the spring eyes. The spring eyes are 11/16" ID. They ARE 4-leaf springs, 1.75" wide steel and they should have distinct bow to them about 3 inches deep as measured on a long bow, string to grip. They should NOT appear as "very straight leaf spring assemblies". This would indicate to me that they have flattened and are failing.

[Patriot]

2 hours ago, Ollie-Haus said:

Just sent off an email to Alcan Spring for information for a set of 4 springs for our LE2. I would like to be proactive in replacing the springs in my driveway rather than on the side of the highway. Plus I am a real big fan of supporting American manufacturing companies. 

I will be interested to hear what you learn Chris. 

[Geronimo John]

3 hours ago, jd1923 said:

. If this is a direct replacement, I should just buy one and put it first in the bottom of my truck toolbox.

First Question:  GJ response:  Remains to be seen.  We are assured that the new springs will fit and do their job much better than the OEM 4 leaf ones.  But one hitch in the game plan has already surfaced, and we don't know yet that they will be a Direct Replacement until they are installed and a few miles gets put upon them.  Best wait just a tad and see how this plays out.  But the odds are for sure with a successful deployment of the new product.  With much greater safety margins as well I believe.

Second Question:  GJ Response:  No. 

• Good quality springs that are not abused or overloaded have a VERY long life span.  With the new 5 leaf springs it would not be necessary to have a spare.  

• If you were thinking of keeping your old springs, you would need to buy a 4 leaf spring as a spare.  No point in spending money on what appears to be a bad product for our use.

GJ

 

[Geronimo John]

3 hours ago, Ollie-Haus said:

Just sent off an email to Alcan Spring for information for a set of 4 springs for our LE2. I would like to be proactive in replacing the springs in my driveway rather than on the side of the highway. Plus I am a real big fan of supporting American manufacturing companies. 

I agree. 

But I just don't generally like sole source procurements.   For most of us, there is plenty of time to run down some quotes from other USA Spring Manufacturers, who use the same steel, and have a great reputation as well. 

Also, we have not heard a peep out of OTT about this topic.  Nor has Dexter been brought into the discussion either.  So I caution rushing into such purchases too early.  Now if you have a trip on the near horizon, then by all means buy now.  I certainly would based on what we think we know now. 

GJ 

Edited March 11 by Geronimo John

[hobo]

40 minutes ago, Geronimo John said:

I agree. 

But I just don't generally like sole source procurements.   For most of us, there is plenty of time to run down some quotes from other USA Spring Manufacturers, who use the same steel, and have a great reputation as well. 

Also, we have not heard a peep out of OTT about this topic.  Nor has Dexter been brought into the discussion either.  So I caution rushing into such purchases too early.  Now if you have a trip on the near horizon, then by all means buy now.  I certainly would based on what we think we know now. 

GJ 

We're departing in less than two weeks for a six week, 5300+ mile trip around the US which is what is driving us to make the spring change NOW.  I noted when I was doing my spring maintenance that the leading spring on the street side seemed to be flattening out slightly which, I am told, is the first sign of imminent leaf failure.

Knowing my time constraints, Mike (at ALCAN) is expediting the production of a spring set for me to have them shipped in time for me to have my RV tech install them prior to our departure. (Yes, I could install them myself but I have a thousand other things I'm doing to prepare for this trip).

As an aside:  I'll be talking to Mike today (Monday the 11th) about the center bolt on his springs and ensure that they are appropriately applied for the Oliver "underslung" setup. (I'll report back on this).

Cost of springs (4 sets), 4 new U bolts, and shipping is somewhere in the $750 - $800 range.

He initially suggested 4 new HD shackles and 8 new shackle bolts but when I informed him the existing shackles on the Olivers have 1/2" thick side plates (which are already HD) he was pleasantly surprised and waived off the need for new ones which is a $200(ish) savings.

Expecting (hoping) no surprises and I'll keep everyone informed of results.

2 HOBOS (hull 414) 2018 LEII

 

 

[Patriot]

5 hours ago, Geronimo John said:

I agree. 

But I just don't generally like sole source procurements.   For most of us, there is plenty of time to run down some quotes from other USA Spring Manufacturers, who use the same steel, and have a great reputation as well. 

Also, we have not heard a peep out of OTT about this topic.  Nor has Dexter been brought into the discussion either.  So I caution rushing into such purchases too early.  Now if you have a trip on the near horizon, then by all means buy now.  I certainly would based on what we think we know now. 

GJ 

Wise words. 👍🏻

[Mountainman198]

7 hours ago, ScubaRx said:

John, The springs ARE 25-1/4" on center to the spring eyes. The spring eyes are 11/16" ID. They ARE 4-leaf springs, 1.75" wide steel and they should have distinct bow to them about 3 inches deep as measured on a long bow, string to grip. They should NOT appear as "very straight leaf spring assemblies". This would indicate to me that they have flattened and are failing.

I can confirm that these measurements match the OEM brand/model spring specs for Hull #898 as well as match the published specs for the replacements spring brand/model provided by Oliver Service for my trailer. I encourage owners to confirm the specs of their OEM springs to know what they are replacing before proceeding with replacement of any part as we know certain differences exist between out trailers based in hull# and date produced.
 

My OEM Spring make/model was conveniently stamped into the retainer band towards the end of each of my leaf springs (see pic). From this info I did a google search and found the specs. The springs installed at the factory on Hull #898 were made by EMCO and are model #PR-4B.  The specs match what Steve provided above.  Added to the specs Steve provided is the bushing spec provided by Oliver.  The bushing is inserted into the spring eye and our wet bolts ride inside of them.  The specs for these bushings (whether plastic or bronze) is 1.75”L, 11/16 O.D.(outside diameter) and 9/16”I.D.(inside diameter).  

It should be noted that the bronze bushing on the ALCAN springs is thicker walled than standard such that while it still has a 9/16”I.D., the spring eye into which it is pressed is larger than 11/16”.  The 9/16”I.D. Of the bushing is important on these metrics as our wet bolts (which are 9/16” must fit inside the bushing eye)  I hope this makes sense.  I have attached a pic for comparison  OEM spring in top, ALCAN on bottom.

Edited March 11 by Mountainman198
clarification

[Mountainman198]

9 minutes ago, Patriot said:

Wise words. 👍🏻

Agree.  Has anyone checked out the lead provided for St. Louis Spring?  They seemed capable of replicating our springs with US Steel.  Has anyone identified additional US Spring manufacturers who can build to our specs in US 5160 steel?

[rich.dev]

5 hours ago, Geronimo John said:

Also, we have not heard a peep out of OTT about this topic. 

Do we know that Oliver is aware of this “issue”? 

[Mountainman198]

Just now, rich.dev said:

Do we know that Oliver is aware of this “issue”? 

I don't know about the other owners who have experienced a broken spring(s) but I opened a ticket the day after it broke and remained in contact with them until I sourced new springs.

[Patriot]

In looking at this and keeping all things in perspective, Oliver has now produced 1500 plus trailers and a smaller percentage of these being Elite 1 models.
If my quick math is correct it tells me that the leaf spring failure rate of let’s say (10 trailers) as noted by  @ScubaRx is approximately less than 1% or 0.67%.

Of course no one wants this type of failure ever. 

I will wait and see what Oliver recommends or if they put out a safety bulletin. I feel sure Oliver will address this issue given the safety concerns. 
 

Following.

Edited March 11 by Patriot

[rich.dev]

1 minute ago, Patriot said:

 

In looking at this and keeping all things in perspective, Oliver has now produced 1500 plus trailers and a smaller percentage of these being Elite 1 models.
If my quick math is correct it tells me that the leaf spring failure rate is at approximately less than 1% or 0.67%.

Of course no one wants this type of failure ever. 

 

Yes, my trailer is only 10 months old and my springs are still good, did have cracked shock bushings that Oliver replaced with 4 new shocks and bushings. Agree sounds like (so far) a very small amount of spring issues, just hope it doesn’t snow ball into like the Lippert frame flex/broken frame issue. 

[hobo]

1 hour ago, Mountainman198 said:

I can confirm that these measurements match the OEM brand/model spring specs for Hull #898 as well as match the published specs for the replacements spring brand/model provided by Oliver Service for my trailer. I encourage owners to confirm the specs of their OEM springs to know what they are replacing before proceeding with replacement of any part as we know certain differences exist between out trailers based in hull# and date produced.
 

My OEM Spring make/model was conveniently stamped into the retainer band towards the end of each of my leaf springs (see pic). From this info I did a google search and found the specs. The springs installed at the factory on Hull #898 were made by EMCO and are model #PR-4B.  The specs match what Steve provided above.  Added to the specs Steve provided is the bushing spec provided by Oliver.  The bushing is inserted into the spring eye and our wet bolts ride inside of them.  The specs for these bushings (whether plastic or bronze) is 1.75”L, 11/16 O.D.(outside diameter) and 9/16”I.D.(inside diameter).  

It should be noted that the bronze bushing on the ALCAN springs is thicker walled than standard such that while it still has a 9/16”I.D., the spring eye into which it is pressed is larger than 11/16”.  The 9/16”I.D. Of the bushing is important on these metrics as our wet bolts (which are 9/16” must fit inside the bushing eye)  I hope this makes sense.  I have attached a pic for comparison  OEM spring in top, ALCAN on bottom.

Mountainman198.  Just want to understand what you are "noting".  Are you saying that I need to order the wet bolts from ALCAN or do the bolts I already have work?

[Mountainman198]

9 minutes ago, hobo said:

Mountainman198.  Just want to understand what you are "noting".  Are you saying that I need to order the wet bolts from ALCAN or do the bolts I already have work?

The wet bolts from my Oliver are 9/16" O.D. and from my measurement of the ALCAN springs I received I am re-using my existing wet bolts as the I.D of the bronze bushings in the ALCAN springs I received are 9/16".  Let me know if this does not make sense.  I chose NOT to buy new wet bolts from ALCAN.

 

Edited March 11 by Mountainman198
clarification

[Mountainman198]

On 3/9/2024 at 4:17 PM, mountainoliver said:

I noticed in the photos of the new springs that they have the center bolt installed in the opposite direction as the original springs have. I think that the round bolt head should be at the top side of the spring so that it can fit into the locating hole in the spring perch that’s welded to the axle. The hex nut will not fit in the location hole. It’s not a big deal, you can turn the bolt around but you’ll need two strong C clamps to hold the springs together before you try to loosen the bolt. I’ve done this before while restoring old cars and rebuilding the springs. Probably the manufacturer should be notified when an order is placed to install the bolt for the axle mounted on top of the springs not under the springs. I’m guessing that they are used to axles being mounted under the springs on jeeps etc. for more ground clearance.

Mike from ALCAN just called to let me know that all future orders of springs for Olivers will have the centering pins in the correct orientation for our trailers. He asked that I alert those who have ordered and who may order in the future to state the springs are for a Oliver E2.

I had sent him an email asking about my understanding of how to flip the centering pins on my springs. He confirmed that flipping the pins is as simple as MountainOliver explains with a couple of C clamps, wrench, and hammer. Hopefully, I am the only Oliver owner to have to perform this step moving forward. 

[hobo]

Mountainman198,

Just to reinforce what you said above, I also  spoke to Mike this morning on the subject of center bolt concern and he advised that his own production department had brought this to his attention after I sent him a picture of my axle and springs late last week. They in fact noted that our trailers had an underspring set up which would require a change in the bolt application.  (Apparently, most TTs have oversprung setups.)  They had already changed the product production protocols for our trailers before anyone on our side contacted them on the issue. 

Any YES, anyone ordering springs should specifically mention that they are being put on an Oliver TT.

He also provided that "yes, they use a much thicker brass sleeve in their springs than the industry standard.  This in no way affects the reuse of our existing bolts.  It's just beefier, stronger, and longer lasting than what most use in their products.

Relative to "other sources" for springs, he stated that there are no other manufactures of springs in the US that use the quality of metal that they use. (Take that comment for whatever it's worth).

I will say this however, If you want the "best" of something, then it is by definition is a "sole source" acquisition (Oliver trailers are a good example of that. )

Finally, Mike commented several times about how impressed he is with the Oliver TT owner community.

Thus far, I am very impressed with ALCAN's attention to detail and their customer service. 

My springs should be installed by the first of next week [18th(ish)] so I'll report back.

Paul (2 HOBOS), hull 414

ON A SIDE NOTE: The reason I sent him a picture of our axle assembly last week was that he suggested that perhaps I wanted to consider upgrading the equalizer (point where front and rear springs attach just between the tires) to a MorRyde equalizer which considerably improves the ride. 

At that juncture I informed him that I had already been in contact with MorRyde and after much back-and-forth data swapping with them, MorRyde determined that their product was not applicable to our trailers since we have an undersprung leaf setup which doesn't allow enough clearance between the top of the axle and the trailer frame for their product use.

Mike was confused by that until I sent him a picture of our assembly so he could see what I was talking about.  This is the pic that their production folks looked at and immediately realized our trailers were an  "underslung" design which caused them to change the bolt setup.

Hope this was enlightening.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 11 by hobo

[John Dorrer]

On 3/7/2024 at 7:02 AM, CRM said:

Our LE2 was built with 5200lb axles but with just the 4-leaf springs. Plan on changing them out and using the same USA made springs that @Mountainman198 is using but just a little worried about the possibility of a rougher ride putting addition stress on the trailer and components. Have you experienced any such issues running the 5-leaf springs?

Good Question. Hopefully feedback will come.

[John Dorrer]

On 3/11/2024 at 8:55 AM, Patriot said:

In looking at this and keeping all things in perspective, Oliver has now produced 1500 plus trailers and a smaller percentage of these being Elite 1 models.
If my quick math is correct it tells me that the leaf spring failure rate of let’s say (10 trailers) as noted by  @ScubaRx is approximately less than 1% or 0.67%.

Of course no one wants this type of failure ever. 

I will wait and see what Oliver recommends or if they put out a safety bulletin. I feel sure Oliver will address this issue given the safety concerns. 
 

Following.

@ 1,500 trailers X 4 springs = 6,000 springs. I don't drive through snow/road chemicals and camp on the Texas coast 12-15 days each spring. I picked up an extra spring at the Mothership, service included inspection of the suspension, springs, and brakes. They found failed shock bushings and replaced under warranty. I take the trailer to a truck place every 3,000 miles to grease the zerks and will have them check the springs each visit. At some point I intend on going with Alcan and USA 5-leaf.

Edited March 12 by John Dorrer
left "shock" out

[jd1923]

30 minutes ago, John Dorrer said:

Good Question. Hopefully feedback will come.

This has been answered theoretically, but sure we all want to know what @Mountainman198 and @hobo experience. The 5200 LB axle makes no difference, except to be very happy they ran out of 3500 stock, and you got better bearings and brakes. 2000 LB rated 5-leaf springs vs. 1750 LB, like I wrote before is 14% stiffer, maybe a little more bang on occasion and less up and down.