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As Oliver strives to be know as a premier RV manufacturer, they have some room for improvement - mainly in the manufacturing process. They make up for it in the service department. I have nothing but good to say about those folks. However, Oliver needs to do some rethinking on its manufacturing processes. Their quality systems are in need of updating - where built in quality, using the latest processes are in order - checklists - are old school - a little TPS would go a long way - I know from experience. I would like to see some corrective action follow-ups, but then that's a little more than Oliver owes its customers on an open forum. But I'm not bashing. In time they will get better, or not. They are moving from what was basically a custom process to one of mass production. Its a choice - increasing production rates - but it also demands changes in the support processes. The saving grace is that the RV industry is terrible in this arena. I believe, if your going to air your complaints on the forum, you have a responsibility to be as transparent as possible and detail the issues - and the fixes if known. I think it gives everyone a chance to evaluate the issues, and make their own judgements. In my opinion, water leaks are completely unacceptable - and there is really no excuse for a unit to leave the factory untested and verified. Water is cheap - as are sprinklers, and a solid inspection process - dedicated to water leaks. ahattar is certainly justified in his complaints - I've seen sales cancelled on much less. 2+ years and 13k miles I'm happy with my Oliver, its not perfect, but then not much is.... rb

Kind of late to this party but I have enjoyed reading everyone's thought processes regarding these trucks. Yet another option to consider is the F-150 with the Heavy Duty Payload Package (HDPP). The only potential drawback for some is that it is not available above the XLT model. With the Max Trailer Tow option, it comes with the 3.5 ecoboost engine. HDPP gets the payload up to around 2400 lbs. It comes with 18" LT, C load rated tires, along with other desirable upgrades. I also learned recently that Transferflow makes a 50 gallon gas replacement tank for the F-150, so that should help with range! I wish they made one for the F250 as well.... Lots of options for diesel tank upgrades but few for gas. I never knew it could be so hard shopping for a truck! Dave

Are you sure the smell isn't coming from the galley sink? If the p-trap goes dry, grey tank smells can enter the trailer. If this is the issue, adding water into the trap will keep the smell where it belongs . . . down there.

Most of the people on this forum have trucks, and we are part of the small minority who tow an Ollie with an SUV. For us, a truck would not fit into our small garage, and we felt it would not be a good vehicle for our everyday use, such as grocery shopping. We purchased an Audi Q7 SUV. It is the largest vehicle we have ever owned, but it drives wonderfully and has a large cargo area. The Q7 has a 7700 lb towing capacity, and it tows the Ollie like a dream. Plenty of power towing, whether going up hills or when accelerating to enter a freeway.

I'll leave it at this. The number one reason I would bet a lot of us spent the money on an Oliver is because you want a trailer that doesn't leak. Mine leaks at least a cup of water in a 10 minute rain. Now add to that all the other little annoying issues after literally the only reason I bought the trailer failed me. The issues are compounded. It's embarrassing every time a neighbor asks where my trailer is and I tell them I spent 70k on a trailer that leaks, it's been at the dealership for weeks. The dealer who sells other brands now knows Oliver leaks and has quality control issues, how can that help the reputation? You can continue to think these are just little things that get resolved and everyone moves on, but there will always be consequences from poor quality control. If you take a small business to court and lose, everyone in that courtroom still saw that a customer took them to court, they don't come out unscathed. If the leak isn't totally fixed when I get it back, I will push hard for a buyback. As far as I'm concerned one chance is all they get to fix an issue like this so soon after purchase.

Giddy - I'm sure that you are about to receive a bunch of differing opinions regarding your question. I really do not believe that there is a "bad" 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton truck out there and unless you plan on towing in the flat lands most of the time one of these trucks is probably what you will need. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Tundra. Yes, it is a bit "long in the tooth" regarding its engine and overall design, but, it is also very reliable. There are features of the current crop of Ford's, Chevies and Dodges that appeal more to some than others. In all cases the cost of these trucks can get rather high. As has been said before on this Forum - take a drive in all of them and choose the one that you like best. Bill

I didn't expect perfection, but I sure did expect it to stay dry inside! Ok, I take it back, they are in a league of their own. RV industry is amateur, Oliver is semi-pro but none of them are true professionals. The bar is set so ridiculously low, so even comparing themselves to the competition is silly. I understand you guys have great pride in your trailers and the people that built them, believe it or not I still like mine. Unfortunately by continuing to let them off the hook for avoidable quality issues, you'll just end up enabling them to take advantage of customers. Oliver and I are not in this together because they have my money. I'm a tough love guy, I'm not saying to beat your kids but you better be damn sure to set some strong boundaries if you want to instill discipline. These are bush league mistakes and they go deeper than a checklist in a factory. If you want Oliver to be around, you better help them set a new bar and actually become pros. That's what I'm trying to do, hold them accountable which a good company would thank me for. They have the stones to host a forum, I'd imagine they have the courage to take a hard look in the mirror when it's not all roses and butterflies. Yes, it's still the best quality trailer on the American market including black series, but if they're consistently having issues right off the line they will quickly destroy their own reputation no matter how petty the issues might be.

ahattar, I am quick to defend the Oliver company because of my experience with them has been extremely positive. Yep, I had a leak from the curb side window and I had one of my lead acid batteries go bad but that is the extent of my problems. And after troubleshooting both issues I found that the common denominator was me, the lazy one. I neglected the widow tracks and allowed the weep slots to become clogged and after a 5" rainfall in 24 hours, there was an overflow into the interior. The battery issue was also a lack of maintenance. And I once bought a mid-seventies AMF Super Glide that was a real prize, but that didn’t stop me from buying a 1980 Tour Glide and a 1996 Road King. I still own a 2000 Road Glide. But I did drive past a HD dealer 3 miles into a 25 mile trip to a dealer that did appreciate my business, but that was my choice. So yes, I am an OTT fan boy, but I also bought into your sales tactics 4 times over a 25 years, so I guess I am a HD fan boy as well. Maybe I should have drank the Kool-Aid Big Red was serving, "where you meet the nicest people". Or maybe I’m just stupid. I’ll leave that for others to judge, not that I give a hoot. And this is my favorite t-shirt these days. Thanks to all for allowing me some of your time, Mossey

Ed & Nancy. No doubt Eddie B will have his perspective but in the meantime a couple of thoughts of my own. Most, perhaps all USFS and even BLM campgrounds limit a maximum stay in anyone camp spot or campground of 14 days consecutively. You could certainly go form one place to the next quite easily. The same holds true for camping in Glacier, but again its quite easy to move around from within the park based upon my experience. The campgrounds in Glacier all have dump stations as well as fresh water fill ups too. Understand the Flathead Valley is a very busy place especially in the summer (with subsequent heavy traffic), meaning you are never very far from adequate facilities such as dump stations and the ability to replenish water. USFS campgrounds by comparison tend to be considerably more primitive with far less facilities. However the vast majority of them do have fresh potable water that you can replenish easily enough in the Oliver. Columbia Falls and Coram are the closest to Glacier while Kalispell and Whitefish are just a few more miles further into the valley. So the quick answer to your question is, yes you should be able to do this but with a bit of moving around from campground to campground. Also I wouldn't rule out the many Montana State parks in the area. All are located in some very nice areas on Flathead or Whitefish Lake and have very good facilities including hot showers. Hope this is helpful.

I was in charge of the National Forest, which borders Glacier on the west side - the Flathead National Forest. I am very familiar with Glacier. It is difficult to find space, and often they are small and quite close. An alternative is to camp in National Forest campgrounds outside the park, and make day trips if you cannot find something inside the park. You can bushwhack up the North Fork of the Flathead River, and go in thru the Polebridge entry. There are also National Forest camp grounds. Across Highway 2 in Hungry Horse, is the Hungry Horse Reservoir.. Check out places there. For real adventure, Drive up the East side of the Reservior to Spotted Bear Campground. Very remote feeling, but you are long a few miles down from the ranger station. The South Fork of the Flathead River is knock-down-dead beautiful. Go to youTube and search Flathead National Forest. There is a short video with amazing. landscape, an the fly over of the trail and river are in it. The scene of the fly fishing off the big rock in the river is just up from the Camp Ground. If you need to, you can call me for more details. I am a retired Forest Service Supervisor. We are considering a Oliver to take to Montana each summer.

One last thought that occurred to me after my post from yesterday. Fires: In the last decade, perhaps longer, our summer air quality state wide (usually) has diminished greatly due to western wildfires. For those who don't live out west the next part will most likely seem improbable to you. Even if Montana doesn't have much itself in the way of fires we do get smoke and lots of it from other states. Its not uncommon in the least for the CA wildfires to inundate our skies here in MT, and its not just CA it could be BC, OR, WA, ID, NV or any other of the western states or provinces dependent on the prevailing winds at the time. Generally through out most of the summer, spring and early fall months the prevailing winds are from SW to NE but even this can change in a heartbeat. This past summer of 2019 MT had very few fires itself due to the heavy snow fall and continued wet and cool weather throughout the summer months and for the most part we did enjoy for a change mostly clear skies and clean air and lots of rain. Our snowpack this winter is above average, a good thing, but even this is no longer a guarantee of a summer/fall season without fires. Please understand this information is not meant to discourage anyone from venturing up this way, but rather come prepared yet most importantly have some alternative travel plans should all hell break loose with fires. Here's hoping for a fireless season with beautiful blue skies… that we used to be known for. Rob PS, I would like to make one correction to John Davies expose on traveling to Glacier from last year. Had not realized he had written up such an excellent piece, but in quickly scanning his prose I saw he mentioned "Kalispell State Park and Lake". There is no such thing, including a Kalispell Lake although there are a number of lakes nearby Kalispell. Perhaps he meant either Whitefish Lake State Park or even Flathead Lake to the south of the town. Again there are numerous state park campgrounds around Flathead Lake and even Whitefish Lake. My favorite by far is the one near the small touristy town of Big Fork called Wayfarers State Park. Its small but there are numerous spots to fit an Oliver into and all of the MT state parks do take reservations. Whitefish Lake State Park is also nice, but if you camp there expect to be woken off and on through the night with freight trains that run literally right next to the park. I'm talking a stones through if that. Hope this helps.

@ Renagade, first good luck with your trip up here to Big Sky Country. Welcome! I have lived in MT (Bozeman) for well over 40 years and have been to Glacier countless times during all seasons and have watched the tourism in the park explode since the mid 70's. With that in mind while I agree with some of the responses here I also have a somewhat different perspective on a few things. Weather: come prepared for winter. Montana weather is extremely volatile and at times just as unpredictable, and the park itself on any given day can have dramatically different weather compared to just a short drive out of the park. Given that you are from southern FL, your idea of winter and ours is on an order of magnitude different. On the other hand you might experience days that are sublime and think my suggestions are an empty threat, they are not. For instance just over a year ago, late May-early June, I left home in low 80 degree weather here in SW MT. Arrived in Glacier and the next day the weather turned upside down and stayed that way for 5-6 days. It was what most people would refer to as dead of winter or near so. Heat of the day, 42º, down to near freezing at night howling winds, some snow and often rain. This past fall, winter came early. Perhaps the 2nd or 3rd week of Sept, fall color died on the vine sub zero temps for a week or two with plenty of wet heavy snow. The day before the storm hit my wife and I were hiking in tees and shorts. This is not uncommon at these elevations and latitudes. The closer we get to the shoulder seasons the more volatile the weather can be. Campgrounds: You can get RSVPS at Fish Creek just across the lake from Apgar as well as St Marys and Swiftcurrent in the NE section of the park. John is correct Two Medicine is beautiful but it fills in the short summer quickly every day. It also closes fairly early but don't recall how long after Labor Day, sorry. East Glacier is on the Blackfoot Indian Reservation so laws regarding many things including alcohol can be very different and for what ever unknown reason can change from day to day. Supplies in the area are limited at best IMO. Most hikes from Two Medicine campground tend to be quite long, some with serious elevation gains. In addition to Apgar, Fish Creek, St Mary's (by far my least favorite) consider Swiftcurrent as well as Avalanche Creek which also closes earlier than most. There are size limitations at Rising Sun Campground but you could probably squeeze an Oliver in to one or two of them the rest are far too small. Its also first come first serve. Avalanche Creek does not afford much in the way of views, it is deep into the forest but still a very nice campground centrally located for day tours, hikes and what ever your'e up to for the day. Travel, The route into Glacier: Most are beautiful drives. However I do not recommend the route from Missoula to Kalispell. While there is some beautiful scenery along this route the traffic is VERY HEAVY almost the entire year. It's become more trouble than its worth to me. However I would be remiss if not mentioning the state park campgrounds scattered along the shores of Flathead Lake, all are nice with awesome views and fairly good facilities. My preferred route at least from Bozeman is a trip up the Seely-Swan River Valley that terminates in Big Fork and from there about another hour (towing speed) up to Glacier. There are a slew of very nice USFS and BLM campgrounds along this route as well. The Front Range route through Augusta and Choteau Highway 89 are also very nice but the closer you get to the east side of the park count on steep narrow winding climbs and descents. Its a slow go after Browning assuming you continue on to St Mary's. Camping along this route is virtually a no go unless you decide to head due west into the Front Range where you can find some awesome USFS camps there. This would be a detour however. The southern perimeter route highway 2 will be an easy cake walk though a bit more exciting than what you normally might drive in FL. From Mid August on tourism tapers off considerably both in Yellowstone as well as Glacier, due to kids/family back in school. However the weekends assuming really nice weather will experience quite a bit of day use and some camper influx from the locals out in Flathead Valley. It is worth noting, not once have I ever been able to get a drive up camp spot in Glacier even during the peak of summer season including but not limited to the 4th of July weekend. Bowman Lake can be overwhelmed with local day users during the weekends with nice weather. However don't miss this place, its about an hours drive up there from Apgar but not to be missed. Take the outside road. There is a nice hike along the north shore of Bowman Lake that will take you to the far end of the lake about 14 or so miles RT, but very little elevation gain a rarity in this park. That should be enough to digest for now, good luck on planning your trip. Let me know if you have questions.

Just a reminder, the park closes when the weather gets really bad, which may be as early as mid-to late September. Visiting after Labor Day (September 7 this year) will in NO way guarantee smaller crowds, especially on a pretty weekend when the locals from Kalispell come up GTS in their expensive play cars and motorcycles. Visiting late just means worse weather and more commercial activities, like a boat tour, that may be shut down for the season. As I mentioned in my other thread, "A reservation at a West Glacier commercial RV park would be prudent, if you cannot get one of the rare reservable spots, until you can locate a free spot inside the Park. Only a few Glacier campgrounds offer them, and in general most are unsuitable for a larger Ollie. As I mentioned before.... St Mary would be the best choice to the east, and the spots are larger there. But you can’t see anything ;( Apgar in the west is big too, but no reservations at all and only trees to look at from your folding chairs. Some CGs are tent only. Some you cannot tow a trailer to... it is a tough place to plan for a visit." https://olivertraveltrailers.com/forums/topic/3627-glacier-national-park-post-season/ Bring a small Walmart tent. During your travels if you find a free site, pitch it, register and and leave it there , go get your Ollie and bring it back. Any other plan will just frustrate the heck out of you! There are a fair number of sites. Finding one that is long enough, free from brush, and easy to maneuver into, is the hard part. You cannot bring your Ollie over GTS, no way. .... Going To The Sun Google maps ... You will have to detour the loooong way around the south perimeter of the Park. Do ideally pick a CG that is not too far away! Two Medicine would be perfect! It is drop dead gorgeous and quite easy to reach from the entrance at East Glacier (near Browning).... John Davies Spokane WA