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A short (by comparison for once) summmary: I concur with the "To Each Their Own" concept. That using hind-sight is an unfair approach to just about anything. That OTT has and still makes a product we all are proud to have, use and keep. That over time our requirements and circumstances will change. We will all end up modify, donating or selling our Olivers. We each exhibit moments of brilliance, and moments we wish we would have avoided. This forum is vibrant because we understand the above for ourselves and others. God bless Scott Oliver, his family and the OTT TEAM they have built. And all the participants of this forum. John Russell

"Overall, I did notice a HUGE difference with driving over bridged and not-so-perpendicular railroad tracks. The camper did not rock back and forth nearly as much as with the 3500 pound, ten year old, springs." We noticed that also and had some movement of items in the trailer in the first few hundred miles. All has settled in now and we like how it rides. John

Bill, Very accurate and well stated. Thanks for your thoughtful and respectful insight and most importantly your input! Without question based on our ownership and traveling across the country field experience Oliver is the best TT traveler on the market. As our good friend Rodney you to say -“Everything you need and nothing you don’t”. 👍🏻🇺🇸 - David

No one (certainly me) has said that "OTT has good reasons for all things they do!". As I would hope you already know, in manufacturing there are a myriad of factors that enter into virtually all aspects of even the smallest detail of any product. In my almost 11 years of dealing with OTT products and personnel I believe that they are truly concerned and connected with virtually every aspect and they seek to make our trailers better in every way that they can while still producing a product that meets all of the requirements necessary/desired for the broad segment they are trying to serve. Indeed, many of the "improvements" made to these trailers have been at the insistence of owners. In my personal opinion, some of these "improvements" have actually made the trailers less desirable to me. You have made this point before without consideration or concern for any segment of the market that chooses (for what ever reason) to not be "bothered" with yet another electronic device. I regret that it is "painful" for you to have to deal with those that (again) for whatever reason choose to not use a "LevelMate" or, perhaps, even cell phones. I'm truly glad for your delight in the ease and simplicity you seem to find in using these types of devices. I would certainly agree that they do have a place and time. But, ALWAYS and in ALL situations is a bit of a stretch. About 500 days ago the area where I live was badly hit with a "hurricane" that literally destroyed several towns and this area is still dealing with the issues caused. One of the things that simply didn't work during this storm was the cell phone network. Perhaps in the eyes of some (actually most if looking at the current stats regarding cell phone ownership - some 95% of adults in America own them) having a land line for phone service belongs in the "stone age". But, I'm sure glad that we still had/have ours when this happened. I've never felt the "need" for being perfectly level or perfectly comfortable, or virtually perfectly almost anything else since my days in the Army. Again, I'm sorry that "It gets me when...". I believe that people do with their money what they want (within the law of course). With cell phones to LevelMates, to Oliver's and beyond people can spend money as they choose. Yes, I do wonder sometimes about these choices that people make. Heck, I even question my own sanity from time to time but I sure don't let it bother me. I'm sorry too that you have had to spend "2 years making too many corrections and improvements!" to your Ollie. From reading most of your posts I believe that some of these "corrections and improvements" had to be made due to the neglect or mistreatment your trailer suffered from its previous owner(s). Others things that you have done, indeed, correct, improve or update original things done during manufacturing. Finally, I prefer to believe that much of our "100's of pages long" Mods section here on the Forum has more to do with improved technology, materials, design and related factors than it does with Oliver not having good reasons for doing what they did. As an example - I believe that you have basically rewired your entire Ollie (and nicely so too). You did this because you saw "problems" with the original wiring that (for good reason) caused you concern. And, since this original wiring was done during the original build your assumption is/was that Oliver was somehow "bad" for allowing the wiring to be completed in this manner. But, as with many things, there is more to the story than what one usually sees by only observing what they can immediately see. Back when your trailer was built, Oliver didn't have "in house" electricians. They knew how other RV's were wired but felt that if they hired certified electricians they would get the best wiring for an Oliver available. From the history I know, there were as many as three individual electricians (I'm sure that they knew each other given the small town/area around Hohenwald) that usually came into Oliver after normal working hours to wire our trailers. This is why not all trailers produced at that time were necessarily wired the same. After "problems" were being reported by owners, Oliver felt that they should have more control over how the trailers were being wired in order to reduce the number of "quality control" issues they were having. Once Oliver took this area "in house" they standardized the wiring for all trailers. This meant that all trailers would be wired with the same wiring harness and would, therefore, actually cost more in wire but less in installation as compared to hiring these "outside" certified electricians. These same type of issues were the reason for the switch from BlueSky to Zamp solar controllers even though Oliver was chastised for not having an MPPT controller, These same type of issues came up with the switch from 16 inch to 15 inch tires and with the orientation of the propane stove and with window blinds and with interior design choices and with ..... In my experience, Oliver has no comparison (not even close) to any other company in the world that I've ever been associated with or done business with. They have consistently done things for customers that are far and away beyond anything that might be considered necessary - regardless of warranties or any other related legal issue. If Oliver has a fault in this area I believe that it lies in the lack of marketing all of the things that they have done other than letting the final product speak for itself. Does this mean that I believe Oliver is perfect? NO! But the company and its product are the best thing on the market even at the price of $100,000. Bill

I’m probably a minority here, but I like my bubble level. It’s used everytime we set up. Generally accurate although it does take adjusting every so often. I haven’t gone for some of the electronic/automatic upgrades (digital door lock, motorized black/gray tank gates, auto levelers, etc). I like simplicity. It’s instructive to remember how Oliver Travel Trailers began. Jim and John traveled around in their Casita(s) for their fiberglass businesses. When it came time to get a new Casita they decided they could make their own. They did, and sometime around 2007 the Elite I was born. They were not RV industry experts, just experienced RVers who used their fiberglass experience to create a new travel trailer. The mechanical parts (electricity, plumbing, etc) have evolved over time with the early trailers not being very standardized. When I look at the newer models compared to those built when ours was, they’ve come a long way and have continued to refine and make improvements. Those of us with 2015/16/17 trailers don’t have that benefit of lessons learned over the years but we still have a solid trailer. Our trailer is 10 years old, just over 110,000 miles and can/does pass for a new trailer (thanks CGI guys). All systems work fine and reliability over the last 6 or 7 years has been outstanding. Mike

I did a final torque of the U-bolts after 200 miles and the nuts only needed 1 to 3 quarter turns. I must say though, like others noted before me, I did have some minor.... "disruptions" (not damage) inside the trailer after that 200 miles - never seen before disruptions. I did have a rear upper cabinet door open for the first time ever, but at the same time, I noticed that the latch was free-floating on the panel and on all three rear panels. They were obviously lose before the trip, so they are snugged up now. Add that to the annual inspection list. Also for the first time ever, I had a bottle of salsa open up inside the fridge. No glass broken. So the bottom of the fridge must have been very bumpy to unscrew a lid. I will inspect plumbing area and electronics soonest. (updated: all good so far) Why do I mention this? Well, I'm thinking, and this is just me, so you do you, but I should have removed that lower/smallest 5th plate. Let's face it, that thicker steel is not going to break easily, especially with the second leaf being so extra long. But, oh well, I have 5-leafs now - all good. I'll just ensure things are buttoned up tighter. I can carry more alcohol and steaks now too. Overall, I did notice a HUGE difference with driving over bridges and not-so-perpendicular railroad tracks. The camper did not rock back and forth nearly as much as with the 3500 pound, ten year old, springs. 4-Leaf: 2250 x 4 = 9,000 lbs (just my recommendation after 200 miles - just things to consider - others here have only used 4-leafs) 5-leaf: 2750 x 4 = 11,000 lbs

Well, thanks to my buddy Steve, we had a good time putting on the new springs at a great location. He's paying me back for helping him put his springs on. Based off what Lew at Alcan said, this is around 200 Oliver's receiving the springs. Pretty good. Once the weather clears I'll do the first 50 mile ride, come back, and retorque the U-Bolt nuts again to 90 pounds. Oh, and between two of you (us), do not lose your 7/8 inch deep impact socket, and do not forget to pick one up before starting the job. LOL Or, driving to the store to get one will delay you. LOL Helpful tools and hints: The new Ryobi impact drill, grease gun, and 4x4 hydraulic jack were all amazing - made things easy. Best to also have two small bottle jacks, 2x" & 4x" wood for cribbing. Not to mention PB Blaster, or equivalent, for the old U-bolts nuts, and small wire brush to clean off those old U-bolt threads before attempting to remove the nuts. One nut got bound up and I had to use old muscles and extra leverage to get the nut off. (Fun times). LOL

The shorter your jacks, the more stable your trailer will be. We use the round Andersen Jack Stands. The Jack Stands reduce the jack extension by approximately 7"+.

Thanks John for the feedback. That's what I was hoping would happen. It was sort of cool to see the black sealant squeezing out between the leafs when I did the final snug-up of U-Bolts. Just interesting.

Yes - the reason is that if you choose to use the onboard jack OR "legos" or "Andersen" type ramps, some type of device that tells you when you are level will be necessary. Just because Oliver is recommending to NOT use the jacks (for leveling) does not negate the fact that you still need to level. Bill

Believe whatever you choose - I only wanted to clear up the definitions that were being tossed around along with the associated prices. Bill

We never lift the tires completely off the ground when setting up at a campsite. We usually level with "Lego" blocks under the tires first, then use the jacks to take most of the load off the tires, so there's no tire bulge at the bottom. Sometimes I will also use a jack to help level side to side, maybe an inch.

Like Mike, I'll use them to change tires which OTT suggested years ago until likely lawyers got involved in policy (over engineering) . Oh yes, we certainly all have opinions! 🤣 I don't like to level at a campsite with wheels/tires off the ground for days. I don't feel it's safe and will show reason to follow. When you find out the leaf springs on your new Oliver are borderline in weight capacity and upgrade to (search for keyword) "Alcan" springs or the like, the Alcan suspension is so firm that when leveling you tires will quickly be lifted off the ground! I had the bracket to one rear jack break. Good thing I was home servicing the Oliver and nobody was inside as the hull banged down, fell on the curbside! If this happened while sleeping, the person on the streetside bed would have been thrown into the center aisle and on the other side against the wall. I'm not kidding! When camping I level with Andersen levelers and only stabilize with the jacks so to keep the wheels on the ground. I also find when using this kit I do not need or use additional wheel chocks. Chris puts them into place easily as I drive up them to level watching the LevelMatePRO app from the driver's seat! These tools work great! 😎 https://www.amazon.com/ANDERSEN-Accessories-Levelers-Leveling-Motorhome/dp/B01LYQ1Z8S/?th=1 If you go with LevelMate, get the PRO model, hardwire it hidden under the rear dinette seat out-of-sight, and never worry about access and battery changes. https://www.amazon.com/LogicBlue-Technology-LevelMatePRO-Wireless-Leveling/dp/B01FGGSWPW/?th=1 Hope this helps!

This may be the capacity of the jack itself but it may not be the capacity of the jack as it is installed on the trailer. The method of installation of the jack by Oliver may or may not be as highly rated but in any case, in my opinion, Olivers specs can't be more than the manufacturers specs. That rambling aside I would prefer to use blocks or ramps to do the majority of the 'lifting' and use the jacks to fine tune that and stabilize.

We, too, level and raise our Hull #1291 (2022) with the jacks. But, we always use support blocks for two reasons: (1) to avoid jack damage if we forget to raise the jacks before driving off and (2) to shorten jack travel distance. See photo below of one of our three support blocks in place under the front jack. Since that photo was taken, we have added Snap Pads, as recommended by Patriot, above. We like 'em. One caution: ensure that the jack foot is placed on level ground, or the foot plate can be bent, requiring replacement. If using the jack on a slope (such as on the side of significantly crowned roadway), place tapered levelers under the jack foot to provide a level platform. Don't ask me how I know...

@ripple963 Consider a set of these for your new Oliver. We installed snap pads on delivery day and they have served us well. It advertises for a 2023 OLE2. Oliver has not changed the size of the leveler base plate to my knowledge. Keep in mind you will only need 3 snap pads. You could inquire with the company and see if they would sell you a 3 pack. Congrats on your new Olive and welcome to the fourm! https://rvsnappad.com/products/mini-6-4-pack?_gl=1*1v0inyc*_up*MQ..*_gs*MQ..&gclid=CjwKCAiAkbbMBhB2EiwANbxtbResXJ2E1axK6bHy80zoefux8nAjJbXwQ8Ok6W8Kv_TmK9BnMxXnMBoC3EkQAvD_BwE&gbraid=0AAAAADD4zBgubd1W_JWGft8lx6EV5EltU

We do use them for leveling and have done so since our first Oliver bought back I early 2008. Advice: Chock the tires fore and aft, then unhook the trailer and move the truck. Raise/Lower the front jack first to get the trailer level front to rear. If the trailer is not level side to side, use the jack to raise the low side to level. Then lower the opposite side to stabilize it. Make sure you place a block between the jack foot and the ground. That way when you forget to raise them before driving away, you won’t ruin $1200 worth of jacks. Routinely check the bolt that holds the foot plate to the inner jack tube. If this bolt works loose, you will lose the foot plate that will cost you close to $40 to replace.

With all the cautions mentioned above, I do what others have mentioned. Get the trailer close to level using lifts or blocks under the wheels, if needed, and then use the jacks the last few inches to make the trailer level. The jacks are pretty robust and seem to lift and support the trailer without problem. Having said that, I also highly recommend the use of blocks under the lifts to reduce the amount they have to extend. I read this forum weekly if not daily and find it a valuable resource of information for owning, using and enjoying your Oliver.

Chris: Some thoughts about the standard wet bolts vs step bolts for trailer springs: Standard bolts generally used for light duty trailer shackles using a 9/16" diameter shackle bolts without a zirk fitting. Step Wet Bolts Bolts are used for heavy duty axles where the step is necessary for proper function with bronze bushings. I believe that all of the OTT trailers, and the most other heavy duty trailer spring shackle bolts are step bolts. Yet Alcon is using a standard bolts. This got me wondering about the topic. Wet bolts sandwich the springs between the subframe mounting "tabs". With the step, the step bolts mechanically limit the clamping of the springs. The result is that the bolt head is prevented from turning in the mounting tabs by two means. First, the splines. Secondly the friction on the tabs by the step and the nut itseld. As a result of the design, the spring always has some clearance allowing it to more freely rotate relative to the bolt center line. My concerns are: The Alcans could easily be over tightened thereby forcing the mounting tangs against the springs. This process would result in the spring binding in the tabs and facilitate the stripping of the bolt splines thus creating a "spun bolt". A spun bolt will act as a crude bearing causing the mounting tab holes to quickly wear. And the repair is rather difficult. Been there myself. Use of Nylock's in high torque situtations often results in the Nylock becoming impossible to remove with hand tools. To do so, one will likely want access to air tools or electric grinders to literally cut the nut off. Trying to do so with a hack saw and punch will be tedious, especially it appears that their bolts are very high quality grade 8. As such, failure of a wet bolt will complicate life a lot. The only way I would want standard bolts for a splined application is if the bolt head head was fixed using a Hex Capture Washer. After two years of working with OTT Jason, this approach ended up being the only acceptable long term repair for a spun bolt spline. DIY - Dexter EZ-Flex Center Bolt Spline Repair (20 APR 2024).docx What are your thoughts about Alcon not using step bolts on our springs? Thanks GJ

We ordered our trailer in September 2015. I had a 2012 Tacoma which was just inside towing specs for the Oliver. A neighbor, who is an original Oliver owner, was hosting three Oliver owners passing through San Antonio in Jan 2016 for dinner. He invited us over. All of them told me my Tacoma was not a good TV and I should upgrade to a half ton. I resisted. We picked up our trailer in May 2016 and by July I was towing with a Ram 1500. They were right, I was stubborn and had to learn first hand why a correctly sized TV is important. I find myself now being one who gives advice and I always remember my stubbornness and that some folks learn best by doing not by just accepting advice from others. Mike

After talking to an attorney friend it’s time to eat some crow and admit my mistake. The Oliver is an extremely well balanced trailer and I can get the truck and trl within all legal weight limits without the Anderson hitch, however, it was explained to me that vehicle oem’s install the class 3 hitch and derate it with the caveat of using a weight distribution hitch, he told me that there is no federal law to require me to use the wdh, however I could get in trouble on a state by state basis. so… after 8 yrs my options are, get an Anderson, or replace the class 3 hitch with a class 4, and replace my bumper to make it fit, I ordered an Anderson this morning. The next vehicle I order will be spec’s with a class 4 hitch, sometimes lessons learned can be embarrassing, but it happens🤷

Traveling our longest trip ever, 5 weeks now, some 4600 miles Arizona to Minnesota and back. Chris and I have learned a lot. And for me, I've spent hundreds of hours in M&R and Mods on our wonderful Oliver and finally we're enjoying the fruits of my labor. 😂 Shopping and dinning in Telluride a couple of days ago, we stopped at a shop that carries, "Life is Good" products, a sentiment to which we truly believe! I'm not much for souvenirs or T-shirts that advertise where I've been, though I had to buy this shirt. It states nicely in two lines surrounding the image of a compass, perfect for all of us who wander, and It goes like this: "We do not see things as they are... We see things as we are." So I turned 70, far more careful today than I use to be 10 years. Left our AZ home one morning at 4:45 AM to return to Texas, sitting on the pass looking down on Van Horn TX, I thought WTF, let's go! After 1100 miles, by 1-2 AM I was home in Lakeway TX. This recent trip, my longest drive was 5 hours, average 3 hours. I know y'all understand! @STEVEnBETTY, I have no idea your ages, your life experiences, where you live, you training, where you've traveled in the last 8 years with your Oliver. I'd love to know, and I'm not picking on you alone. I believe and I'm sure you agree, all of this matters. You wrote, "I’m disappointed in hearing members on this forum, disparage people’s attempts to do something different." I agree, and very often are suspect to your criticism! I've been told that if I do not regularly re-apply caulk to my Oliver, that it will damage it and destroy its value. Sorry, I will never add caulk on this hull, uglied by OTT in its original manufacture and again gunk-on-gunk after two return trips to Hohenwald. But caulk is more important in humid and rainy locations. Point in life, current needs, home and travel locations, part or full-time OLiver use, makes all the differences. You know how many times I've heard that annual bearing and jack maintenance is mandatory? Sorry to those who believe such, but when I pack bearings or grease the jacks correctly (not an Oliver University video) it will certainly last 3-4 years. I can tell by ear when the jacks need maintenance! Those who do not work their own maintenance cannot know, must trust Manufacturer's Recommendations and be at the mercy of hired mechanics. Normal to ask questions, but then it's one suggestion after another. This creates more worry which creates more, I just purchased new D52 axles and Alcan springs, parts only, will do the work myself this summer. I did not need to, as our leaf springs are clean, rust-free, nicely arced, no issues. My primary want was in having 12" brakes for safe mountain towing. and make everything new, restored. I can afford the parts and do the work now, replacing a 10-year-old suspension with hopes of carefree use for another 10. Not for fear of a spring breaking, as for that I have a spare pair under the toolbox and all the tools I'd need to make the roadside repair. there are 26 pages of leaf springs recommendations listed on one post alone! Most Oliver owners cannot do this work at home, let alone if stuck on the road, so such concern is understandable. We all have different comfort levels. Love technology and my Oliver has more mods than most, yet not of the @ScubaRx fame! 🤣 Tesla has made EVs mainstream and EVs are amazing technology. We have a wonderful forum where we all voice opinion. So in my opinion, if I had to tow with an EV just on this recent trip, I would need to stop 2x more often and 10 times longer to recharge vs. refueling and would not have been able to boondock in many of the remote spots we visited or the same trip would have taken 1-2 weeks longer. OMG, boondocking means no electrical hookup and charging! 🤣 I'm going to stop now, but Steve, or is it Betty? I've gotten a kick out of this post! We can all read here and learn something, or at times we think to ourselves as we read and say to ourselves, "what, no way, that's nuts! I'm not doing that."

I'm sorry, but you miss the big picture. It isn't about driving 90K+ miles without problems. It is about your tow vehicle requiring the use of a WD when towing over a certain weight and the Oliver is over that weight. It is about making a high speed stop to avoid stopped traffic or to avoid being cut off and taking evasive action. If you total your tow vehicle and Oliver there is a high probability that you insurance may decline your claim, when their investigation uncovers you weren't using the required WD. Worse yet, what if you kill someone or put them in a wheel chair and you insurance carrier declines to cover the claim. The other party will go after you in court. I hope that never happens to you. I'm sorry but this appears to be a bit risky, and others that have responded to you and others are pointing out their concerns. In the end you will do or continue to do what you want. I leave you with this question. "Is it worth the risk to loose everything".

For a change, I’m loss for words! Given your post, I have far less Oliver towing experience than you. User manual of our old Dodge, given a 2500 Cummins, states to use a WDH when towing over 5000 LBS (?), even though GVWR is 8800 lbs. It does level the rig, less porpoising from the light Oliver tongue weight, stays nicely level. I install the latest technology and use it to the max, yet down the highway I’m just an ol’ fart conservative! 🤣 Good to hear from you @STEVEnBETTY!9

Back in the day, several couples, with pets, full timed in the original Elite I. Is it possible? Sure. They all upscale at one point, years in. For us, the Elite I has been our summer home, sometimes 6 months, for 16 years. But, we have a nice sticks and bricks to come home to. I don't think I could full time, without a home base. Now, with grandchildren, I'm sure I want to be home, more than away, and not moochdocking in pur daughters driveway. Our cousins have had at least a dozen different rvs, from big buses (prevost) to bumper pulls and class cs. It's all an adventure. Some people figure out their camping style quickly. (At least, less than a dozen.) We're still good with the little Ollie. Part time, full time. I've figured out, over the years, that I don't want to full time, 24/7/365. Neither boat, nor trailer. But, that's me. Not you. Follow your heart, with reason.

It definitely depends on the person and situation youre in. I "Full time" in my LE1 granted im not actually in it for most of the year as im out working on ships. But it is my main house so to speak. I have a small storage unit for seasonal equipment and anything i want to keep but dont need with me in the trailer near my parents house that i can drop/pickup from when i visit them, my F150 acts as my garage and all my time spent not at work im living in the trailer. when i am at work if its not somewhere that i can bring the trailer it gets dropped at whatever the nearest/cheapest storage lot is until i get off the ship. So far in my career its worked out to be 2 months at a time in the trailer then out working for 6 but pretty soon here that will change to much more time off. i think if it were more than just me it would almost certainly be too cramped for full time but ive had friends come with me for a few days at a time with little issue.

I finally got this project done. I ended up ordering a mattress from Tochta with dimensions of 78x75x10. When I put the mattress in the trailer and unpackaged it the actual dimensions we 78x77 which was too long. There was zero room around the top and bottom of the mattress. I called Tochta and they asked me to send pictures of the measurements. They got back to me and offered to give me $400 back if this mattress would work or to just have me donate this one and they would send me a new one. I chose a new one with dimensions of 76x74x10. It arrived less than a week later and fits perfectly. Mattress is very comfortable and Tochta's customer service is top notch! John