Geronimo John

In my eyes, John Davies was a pioneer in DIY efforts. I have often referred back to his wisdome and approach when doing my own. Sadly I have neither the tools, equipment or skills as this great craftsman. But I sure can gain insights on how to do things in our trailers from his efforts. Geronimo John John Davies Posts Index (April 2023 Version).docx

Part of what concerns me is that earlier they indicated that they have 400,000 of the same design. I have insider knowledge that the NTSB has been made aware of our concerns. John Russell, PE Russell Engineering

See John Davies switch DIY to accomplish this goal. GJ

For those of us with the Victron 712, we have a spare unused port. One of the uses is for temp monitoring. I never hooked it up as it was "Not" needed. I am rethinking that one for sure! GJ

JD: Your concise description is excellent. Thanks for clarifying. If you decide you don't need that spare part KISEA for your Victron system, I'll gladly purchase it from you next summer! Would be a really good spare part for my "Older Design" system. GJ

When I saw Will's "Sparking" demo, in my mind's eye it turned from a safety one time feature into a serious "Oh Ship" issue. If an owner has BB's, I highly recommend getting a thermal temperature gun for checking the 4/0 system. It is also very useful for checking Ollie's brakes... especially if in the mountains. GJ

I think BB has a problem. They should initiate a recall. In the mean time, I highly recommend inspection of the terminals and thermal temperture testing of all 12V 4/O connections. GJ

DIY Solar Power by Will Prowse has been around for many years. His take it apart and inspect approach is well received. Basically a common sense approach to looking at problems. He in my opinion is not the definative expert in the detailed design elements. But he is able to communicate well and calls issues as he sees them. I know of no other technician with his experience in taking apart and then making common sense reviews of hundreds of different batteries. So, is he raising the red flat on Battleborns before at least calling Dragon Fly for comment? Yea sort of I think. Was his post raising a flag that all BB owners need and should be aware of? Yep. GJ

Sadly I do not trust most of the items made in China that are sold on E-bay. Especially for life safety items such as lug nuts. GJ

In the case of the Cielo's, they are killing power with every cycle. I would have concern for both the mother board and start capacitor at a minimum. Both of which don't like to be prematerly knocked off power and the "Cold Started".... especially with every cycle. Point is we don't know what is going to happen until it is tested in the real world by owners that don't cook the data. As usual I agree with your statement and I appreciate your doing so. I too believe that any A/C that is short cycled will exoerience additional wear and will have a shorter life. Now the real question is it 2%? 50%? We don't know. If it's 2% sweet. If it's 50% not so sweet. We'll see in about two years or less I suspect. BTW the Soft Start Systems went thru the same learning curve. That example worked out really well for all. gj

WELL STATED WAYFINDER! Preceeding your post are several disconnects and confusing statements. Part of the confusion is that there are two different designs of our electrical systems. I am not so sure it can be differentiated for label purposes by "Old" or "New". I suspect that the selection of your OEM inverter size determines which system was used. I mention this as looking at the pictures of the 2016 vs our 2018 and the more advanced layout appears with the 3,000 watt inverter, and the more simple approach was used for the 2,000-watt inverter such as our 2018. As such, I believe the OEM inverter size is the deciding factor in which set-up an owner has. Digesting all of the above, my pea brain has summarized the two designs as: 2000-Watt Inverter Systems: May/may not have dual shore power feeds. Will have a PI Eenergy Management System (EMS) located under the rear dinette seat. The PI EMS display has a 15' cord, and as such the display can be found in several locations. In our early 2018 OE2, it is located under the street side bed. Power (City or Generator) flows into the trailer directly to the EMS. The EMS provides power noise filtering, voltage regulation, spike and surge protection. The output of the EMS goes to the Auto Transfer Switch(s) (ATS). This ATS acts as an A or B switch between two power sources. The input is either the 2,000-watt inverter or the EMS. It's output is to the PI Combo AC/DC Power Panel located under the rear dinette seat. At the time, we were stuck with Lead Acid/ATM batteries & power hungry hammer mill Air Conditioner. With the goal in mind of being able to run our air conditioner off newly installed Lithium batteries, an inverter upgrade would be desired. My intent was to do this upgrade with our 2,000-Watt inverter died. In my case the next season, our 2,000-watt Inverter failed. Perfect excuse to upgrade to a 3,000-Watt inverter. But my single 20-A ATS needed to also be upgraded to handle the additional current. A inexpensive and simple solution was to buy another 20-Amp ATS and install it with the output only going to the A/C. A simple mod. The old style EMS has a lifetime warranty. This in my opinion is a good reason not to change the 3,000Watt design below. Keeping the lifetime EMS makes sthe dual ATS approach financially advantageous. A second advantage is that the twin ATS approach greatly reduces the load and in theory increases the life of the twin ATS units. It also is not an "all your eggs in one basket as we have "Hanging Spare" gives you options should an infield failure occur. I like options. 3000-Watt Inverter Systems: May or may not have dual shore power feeds. These newer design systems bring in power from the outside port(s) direclty to the 5100 ATR. This single unit appears to have power condition and protection simular to the EMS above. It also has the power interuption and switching capability as the EMS above. It combines in one box the EMS and the ATR roles mentioned above. Thereby saving in cable, connections and weight. All good. As such the power switching must handle the extra 1,000-watts from the inverter, the switching was upgraded to the 30-A level. This new style design is more compact and from all indications is very reliable. If I had this system, there would be no consideration to going back to the older design. I would however consider carrying a spare 5100 ATR. A good $128 investment. I like options. Hope this clears up some of the fog. GJ

Makes sense now. Thanks. So basically it goes back to the OEM size of the Inverter. In a way, my employment of twin 20-Amp ATS units gives me a "Hanging Spare Part" if one fails. If away from a parts source and lose an ATS, I can decide if I want AC for the A/C or want AC for the Converter (For Microwave, Coffee Pot etc.) When one of my 20-Amp ATC's fails I'll replace it with a 30-Amp to match better my 3,000 watt Renogy Inverter. Thanks for "The Paul Harvey"! GJ

YES. It has no 12V connections. It basically is an A/B switch between shore power and the Inverter created 120V power. I believe it defaults to Shore Power. GJ

Both JD's 2017 and my 2018 had the 20 Amp Auto Transfer Switch with lead acid batteries from the factory. When mine went south, the max in the line I could find in 2019 was the 20 amp. So I split my shore power connection and added another 20 amp. I put the A/C on this ATS as suggested by a fellow owner. I figured it was an better solution. I am VERY glad you posted about a 30 Amp being available. Many owners have posted that OEM 20 Amp ATS's seem to have a short life span. I see your point that if you have a 30 amp service, then all components in the 120 system must be able to live happily with 30 Amps. It also eliminates having two each 20 Amp ATS units to do so. Does anyone have an idea why we and others had 20 Amp ATS's installed? John Davies post about changing out a failed one was the genesis of much of my info on the topic. GJ

I emplore you to: Purchase a 30 Amp version ATS, not the smaller one some of us have. I was "shocked" that mine only had a 20 A ATS. On yours, where you see toasted insulation on the wires, cut it out and reterminate. This may require some gymnastics. Label each wire as to it's destination. Will save you from using some "bad words" as John D. uses to say. GJ

Taylor: Below is WayFinder's post about loose screws in the ATS. Keep us posted on your "adventure in power". Geronimo

Please do so only with zero 120 Volts in the trailer. No generator or shore power connected. No solar connected if you have it. We have seen several cases where the wires in the ATS have vibrated loose. Your tapping and getting/losing power would indicate a temporary failure. May just be a loose wire in the ATS. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ONLY IN A DIRE EMERGENCY: To bypass all of the shore power system: Turn off your 30 amp main breaker. Turn off any other breakers you don't absolutely need. You want to keep your loads down to under 15 amps MAX. You could energize the electrical system, with some risk, by modifying an extension cord by cutting off the female end, and install a second male 120V plug. Use your generator to back feed power to the outlest by the entry door. I would not suggest plugging it into a shore power source at the RV park as it has even more electrical potential than a 2K generator does. Hence a small generator may short, but it's breaker will likely limit the current flow. Hence not doing this with the power pole at the RV Park. GJ

Mud Dobbers and Mice Nests have been seen before in furnaces. GJ

Totally agree. I also keep the bath vent open so as to create a chimney effect from the lower hull screened weeps and other sources. Sort of an energy way to bring in a limited amount of fresh air. Esspecially impotant to do so when using an open flame heate inside. For that cracking a window is meeded as well. GJ

These vents from Amazon.com matched our 2018 OE2 quite nicely. GJ

My concern with this mod is that humidity from showers will be vented to the basement. That could be a problem in the cold areas of the basement in winter. in summer it may be a source of moisture for growing mold/mildew. Some have stated that such a vent would allow more air to flow into the bath area from the furnace. I doubt this due to the poor quality and long duct run to it. Frankly just keeping the bathroom door open when not in use will well ventilate the space with zero potental for unanticiated impacts below. If you want to vent the curbside front basement, I suggest adding transfer vent in the front curbside seat base area. Likely facint the CO/Propane detector. GJ

Those guys are a lot faster than I am! But if I could do two axles at their pace, it would be $300 a year cost. Ten years that I hope to be around say $3,000. The Dexter NeverLubes I understand should go ten years. So, mathamatically speaking, I am financially well ahead in getting the 5200 never lubes with their better brakes. RIght? GJ

Ditto. Love our Battleborns. But knowing what's out there now, as posted many times by many owners, the cost of three of them (300AH) and the cabling could lead me today to another larger single battery. PS: In addition to the SOC capability, our 2019 OE2's do not have a master 350 amp shut off switch. Yes there are lots of opinins as to where to mount it, but 95% see the need to ba able to stop the source of power in an emergency QUICKLY. So please add that to the need to do list. Below is John Davies' approach. John Davies Master Battery Switch.docx Note that his install was for 200 amps and inside the cabin basement. I suggest using the 350 amp version as it is higher than the fuse in the 4/0 cabling. Also, I suggest mounting it in the battery box to not delay exiting a smoke filled trailer in an emergency. Get out and shut it off outside. Always grab your fire extinguisher and have it handy. But get the family out first.

I'm with TopGun2 and Mike & Carrol in using a minimalist approach. JD's approach is a good start for cleaning up the cabling and that's good too. If you want to do a 100% upgrade to current technology then there are 2 in 1 Charger/Converter units, computer interfaces with gizmology way over my Pea Brain. So I'll leave it to you to respond back as to your goal. Several of us though like keeping things simple. Personally I LIKE have seperate charging and inverter systems. The combo units, best one is Victron's, is in our opinion overkill in the gizmology zone. Have a blip and you could lose both 120V and 12V capability. Is our world if we lose one, we are still in business in many ways. I suspect that our 2019 hulls were built with the same PD Converters. They likely have the same LI switch that can work with many Lithium Battereis. If you are in the less is better group, then reusing the Converter is a good cost reduction... if you have the switch on the PD mother board. Below is one of my DIY's on this topic. Up to about two or three years ago, the #1 Litho battery was the Dragon Engergy Battleborn's. Now as stated above thee are some higher power density units with good quality too. Finally, if you desire info for minimalist approach, you for sure need a way for keeping track of your SOC. If so, send me a PM and I can provide you with some handy info. So, welcome to the OTT Family and good luck in your project. Geronimo John Progressive Dynamics PD4045 LiCSV Upgrade.docx

I agree with both posts. I use Consumer Cellular, mostly out west. They use AT&T towers. Their customer service is second to none, and I am very pleased with their connectivity. If you are going to be doing a lot of Off-Grid Boondocking and need multi-media connectivity, or have emergency medial communication needs where WiFi is weak or non-existant; then Star Link seems to be the way to go. LOTS of great install info here on our forum. Like Lithium Batteries, I'm in "Absorption Mode" for the Star LInk topic myself. GJ