Toilet and Black tank smell..

[csevel]

So I feel like I've exhausted my options in tracking down a black tank odor so before I call the mothership, I'd like to solicit some opinions here.  I've gone through all the Oliver forum posts relevant here and in other RV places on the web.  I have a standard porcelain toilet and towards the end of last summer and this summer I've had an issue with an on and off smell, especially with the MaxxAir fan on and of course in warmer weather.

For the record, I DO NOT put toilet paper in my black tank EVER and don't have any tank sensor issues.  I'm also aware that gray tank smells can mimic black emanating from drains.  I have been using Happy Camper treatment for over 7 years and have been happy with it but I've been following a company called KLEENTANK who advise not using enzyme treatments due to sludge forming in the lines. https://kleentank.com/throw-away-your-rv-tank-additive-use-this-instead/  so I've been experimenting with their DIY holding tank mix this season.    I also use plenty of water (even though I hate to waste water while boondocking) and wait to dump until I'm at least 80% full.

Here are the things I've done to track and hopefully fix the problem to no avail:

1.  I removed and replaced the ball valve seal on the toilet even though it was holding water just fine.

2.  I removed the entire toilet from the base and replaced the seal where the pipes meet the closet flange. It's weird that there's just a pipe to pipe connection there.  Not  exactly sure     what the seal does except maybe prevent leakage if the black tank overflows.

3.  If you know me, I have OCD and completely cleaned the toilet by turning it upside down and sterilizing every nook and cranny. A yucky job but I ain't scared.

4.  I climbed on the roof and made sure no obstructions like mud daubers or nests were in the vent pipe.  I even poured a weak bleachy solution down the vent to see if it  would help.

5.  I've taken a good look under the dinette seat closest to the bath to see if there are any loose connections on steel bands or any other possible loose connection. I see no evidence of prior leaks.  There is a slight black smell but I assume some smell can come from the gate valves.  I'm using a commercial ozone generator today in that area.

6.  I sealed/blocked off both the shower and sink drains to try to isolate the toilet vent and still have smell.

The only thing that I can think of is that I haven't removed the face plate from the bath vanity to see if the vent pipe has come loose or something.  I hesitate to do this as Oliver repaired my courtesy light and did an outstanding job on the exterior caulk which I'm pretty sure I won't be able to duplicate.  

I guess this would be a good time as any to make that area accessible but I was hoping not to tackle that just yet.

Any other insight would be greatly appreciated; I might be missing something obvious. 

Regards,
Claudia

 

Edited September 8 by csevel

[Patriot]

15 hours ago, csevel said:

So I feel like I've exhausted my options in tracking down a black tank odor so before I call the mothership, I'd like to solicit some opinions here.  I've gone through all the Oliver forum posts relevant here and in other RV places on the web.  I have a standard porcelain toilet and towards the end of last summer and this summer I've had an issue with an on and off smell, especially with the MaxxAir fan on and of course in warmer weather.

For the record, I DO NOT put toilet paper in my black tank EVER and don't have any tank sensor issues.  I'm also aware that gray tank smells can mimic black emanating from drains.  I have been using Happy Camper treatment for over 7 years and have been happy with it but I've been following a company called KLEENTANK who advise not using enzyme treatments due to sludge forming in the lines. https://kleentank.com/throw-away-your-rv-tank-additive-use-this-instead/  so I've been experimenting with their DIY holding tank mix this season.    I also use plenty of water (even though I hate to waste water while boondocking) and wait to dump until I'm at least 80% full.

Here are the things I've done to track and hopefully fix the problem to no avail:

1.  I removed and replaced the ball valve seal on the toilet even though it was holding water just fine.

2.  I removed the entire toilet from the base and replaced the seal where the pipes meet the closet flange. It's weird that there's just a pipe to pipe connection there.  Not  exactly sure     what the seal does except maybe prevent leakage if the black tank overflows.

3.  If you know me, I have OCD and completely cleaned the toilet by turning it upside down and sterilizing every nook and cranny. A yucky job but I ain't scared.

4.  I climbed on the roof and made sure no obstructions like mud daubers or nests were in the vent pipe.  I even poured a weak bleachy solution down the vent to see if it  would help.

5.  I've taken a good look under the dinette seat closest to the bath to see if there are any loose connections on steel bands or any other possible loose connection. I see no evidence of prior leaks.  There is a slight black smell but I assume some smell can come from the gate valves.  I'm using a commercial ozone generator today in that area.

6.  I sealed/blocked off both the shower and sink drains to try to isolate the toilet vent and still have smell.

The only thing that I can think of is that I haven't removed the face plate from the bath vanity to see if the vent pipe has come loose or something.  I hesitate to do this as Oliver repaired my courtesy light and did an outstanding job on the exterior caulk which I'm pretty sure I won't be able to duplicate.  

I guess this would be a good time as any to make that area accessible but I was hoping not to tackle that just yet.

Any other insight would be greatly appreciated; I might be missing something obvious. 

Regards,
Claudia

 

Have you poured any water in the p trap of your shower drain lately? If you pee trap has no water in it, it will allow any odor from your gray tank to off gas into your shower. We periodically when traveling just add water to the p trap. No odor after doing so. Also it does not hurt to pour a little water and dawn or tank treatment down the p traps. Hope this helps!

Edited September 9 by Patriot
Add content

[csevel]

34 minutes ago, Patriot said:

Have you poured any water in the pee trap of your shower drain lately? If you pee trap has no water in it, it will allow any odor from your gray tank to off gas into your shower. We periodically when traveling just add water to the pee trap. No odor after doing so. Also it does not hurt to pour a little water and dawn or tank treatment down the pee traps. Hope this helps!

Yeah, I regularly pour my new tank treatment down the shower drain and of course valve lubricant after every dump.   This has me so perplexed!

[Patriot]

7 minutes ago, csevel said:

Yeah, I regularly pour my new tank treatment down the shower drain and of course valve lubricant after every dump.   This has me so perplexed!

Got it. Hopefully someone else will chime in with a fix. Hang in there as there are no problems only solutions! A famous quote by?😊

Having exhausted all other possibilities, I do think you may want to check that vent pipe. It may save you a call to the mothership. 

Edited September 8 by Patriot

[topgun2]

I've got 1 1/2 suggestions:

1 - have you checked the valve under the kitchen sink?  you will need to remove 1 or 2 drawers on the left side as you face the sink.  Then look at the plumbing and you are looking for a vertical pipe.  There are times when the valve in the vertical pipe will become "stuck".  Tap on that pipe with a small hammer, piece of wood, crescent wrench, etc. and see if that "reset" the valve from open to closed.

1/2 - after having a similar problem for the past couple of years - as with your case my problem would come and go - I got serious about sticking my nose very close to all of the places from which these kinds of odors emanate.  Not being able to locate the source, I too was about to give up and bring in the troops.  But, early in this year's 2 month western fly fishing trip my Mr. Buddy propane heater ran out of propane.  So, as per usual I picked it up (its normal location while I'm camping at altitude is either just outside the bath door or just inside the bath door on the shower pan) but before I was able to unscrew the used propane bottle I noticed a fairly strong scent of gas.  Of course I then screwed in a new bottle but later that day I again picked up the heater and again noticed the same smell.  Long story short - this was the source of my problem all along.  

Good luck with the valve "reset".

Bill

[Townesw]

Do you move your trailer or is it set up in a semi permanent location? The reason I ask is it seems like I read one time that you were a campground host.  If you are set up semi permanent you might consider using a wand and washing the bottom side of the top (inside) of your black tank to remove anything growing there that might be creating a smell. I have done this without making a mess by stretching a piece of clear plastic over the rim and sticking a flush wand through a small hole poked in the center of the plastic. I used the water wand out of this set and “flushed the s..t” out of it. 

 

https://www.jbtools.com/lisle-radiator-genie-water-air-cleaning-wand-88500/?wi=off&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAADsRHpMRXm-qFPZ7YImI7C72eLsmp&gclid=Cj0KCQjwlvW2BhDyARIsADnIe-J2zOxhEo0lRORzmKQs5As-Ci31ib8zUwlffYUqKpuoGVDvXd0Air8aArl6EALw_wcB

 

 

Edited September 8 by Townesw

[csevel]

2 hours ago, Patriot said:

Got it. Hopefully someone else will chime in with a fix. Hang in there as there are no problems only solutions! A famous quote by?😊

Having exhausted all other possibilities, I do think you may want to check that vent pipe. It may save you a call to the mothership. 

I have access to a camera snake; I may try shooting it down the vent before I start ripping things apart.

[John Dorrer]

3 hours ago, csevel said:

So I feel like I've exhausted my options in tracking down a black tank odor so before I call the mothership, I'd like to solicit some opinions here.  I've gone through all the Oliver forum posts relevant here and in other RV places on the web.  I have a standard porcelain toilet and towards the end of last summer and this summer I've had an issue with an on and off smell, especially with the MaxxAir fan on and of course in warmer weather.

For the record, I DO NOT put toilet paper in my black tank EVER and don't have any tank sensor issues.  I'm also aware that gray tank smells can mimic black emanating from drains.  I have been using Happy Camper treatment for over 7 years and have been happy with it but I've been following a company called KLEENTANK who advise not using enzyme treatments due to sludge forming in the lines. https://kleentank.com/throw-away-your-rv-tank-additive-use-this-instead/  so I've been experimenting with their DIY holding tank mix this season.    I also use plenty of water (even though I hate to waste water while boondocking) and wait to dump until I'm at least 80% full.

Here are the things I've done to track and hopefully fix the problem to no avail:

1.  I removed and replaced the ball valve seal on the toilet even though it was holding water just fine.

2.  I removed the entire toilet from the base and replaced the seal where the pipes meet the closet flange. It's weird that there's just a pipe to pipe connection there.  Not  exactly sure     what the seal does except maybe prevent leakage if the black tank overflows.

3.  If you know me, I have OCD and completely cleaned the toilet by turning it upside down and sterilizing every nook and cranny. A yucky job but I ain't scared.

4.  I climbed on the roof and made sure no obstructions like mud daubers or nests were in the vent pipe.  I even poured a weak bleachy solution down the vent to see if it  would help.

5.  I've taken a good look under the dinette seat closest to the bath to see if there are any loose connections on steel bands or any other possible loose connection. I see no evidence of prior leaks.  There is a slight black smell but I assume some smell can come from the gate valves.  I'm using a commercial ozone generator today in that area.

6.  I sealed/blocked off both the shower and sink drains to try to isolate the toilet vent and still have smell.

The only thing that I can think of is that I haven't removed the face plate from the bath vanity to see if the vent pipe has come loose or something.  I hesitate to do this as Oliver repaired my courtesy light and did an outstanding job on the exterior caulk which I'm pretty sure I won't be able to duplicate.  

I guess this would be a good time as any to make that area accessible but I was hoping not to tackle that just yet.

Any other insight would be greatly appreciated; I might be missing something obvious. 

Regards,
Claudia

 

Doubt it is a black tank issue. Gray tank yes. We had our tanks cleaned at the Rally and use a Pine-Sol mix. We always use the black tank flush after emptying and flush out the gray as well.

 

 

[csevel]

34 minutes ago, John Dorrer said:

Doubt it is a black tank issue. Gray tank yes. We had our tanks cleaned at the Rally and use a Pine-Sol mix. We always use the black tank flush after emptying and flush out the gray as well.

 

 

Yeah, I'm an avid 'flusher' even with no TP in my tank.  I'm pretty sure this is black tank odor..in my opinion, they're both bad but distinctly different.

I'm not a fan of the pine scent in Pinesol so I use their other scents with addition of the Calgon beads...but it's not a cure-all.

Edited September 8 by csevel

[Mike and Carol]

One more thing to check (I speak from experience here), open up the area under the sink in the bathroom.  In the back on the left you’ll see where the vent pipe connects to the black tank.  On our trailer it was not glued, just stuck into the hole on the top of the black tank.  It had come out and was sitting on top of the tank off center so part of the hole was open.  The vent pipe is now epoxied into the black tank.  Mike

[jd1923]

47 minutes ago, Mike and Carol said:

open up the area under the sink in the bathroom.

Looks like you’re going to have to open it. I put mine back with 4 screws, drill 5/32” holes, rubber washers and a white rubber seal, no caulk. https://a.co/d/5G5pVZd

Edited September 8 by jd1923

[csevel]

1 hour ago, Mike and Carol said:

One more thing to check (I speak from experience here), open up the area under the sink in the bathroom.  In the back on the left you’ll see where the vent pipe connects to the black tank.  On our trailer it was not glued, just stuck into the hole on the top of the black tank.  It had come out and was sitting on top of the tank off center so part of the hole was open.  The vent pipe is now epoxied into the black tank.  Mike

I was sort of trying to avoid opening that area up.  Looks like I have another mod on my hands!

[Patriot]

2 hours ago, csevel said:

I have access to a camera snake; I may try shooting it down the vent before I start ripping things apart.

That is a good idea. I agree with @jd1923 and @Mike and Carol the vent pipe connection could very well be your culprit. Persevere!

[csevel]

58 minutes ago, jd1923 said:

Looks like you’re going to have to open it. I put mine back with 4 screws, drill 5/32” holes, rubber washers and a white rubber seal, no caulk. https://a.co/d/5G5pVZd

I've seen your mod and it's truly something that Oliver should consider from stock! It was on my list..Brilliant!

[Mike and Carol]

26 minutes ago, csevel said:

I've seen your mod and it's truly something that Oliver should consider from stock! It was on my list..Brilliant!

It’s on my list too.  I put mine back as original, should have taken the time to do more.  That was 2017, I’ve learned a lot since then.

[topgun2]

Before you rip the vanity apart - it is worth the shot to tap on that under the kitchen sink valve.  Just sayin'.

Bill

[John Dorrer]

Never thought about the stink pipe. Make sure you use plastic razor blades to cut the sealant. Don't ask me why🙃. Instead of caulk I used a "U" shaped silicone strip around the panel. Screwed back in and replaced the caps over the screws.

 

Either Oliver forgot to install 2 bolts through the flat plate to hold the propane housing to the trailer or it came loose.

 I didn't find the nut under the sink.. 

Edited September 8 by John Dorrer
Updated Comment

[John Dorrer]

[John and Debbie]

4 hours ago, John Dorrer said:

Doubt it is a black tank issue. Gray tank yes. We had our tanks cleaned at the Rally and use a Pine-Sol mix. We always use the black tank flush after emptying and flush out the gray as well.

 

 

John

How do you flush the gray tank?  TIA.

John

[mountainoliver]

Along with everything else that has been suggested, recheck the toilet flange to make sure that it isn’t cracked. Mine started to smell on occasion and a little at a time then gradually became worse. I found out that the cheesy plastic flange was cracked, allowing sewer gas to escape and eventually liquid as well. I replaced mine with a stainless steel flange and fastened it down using all six available mounting holes with #14 stainless screws. 

[John Dorrer]

22 minutes ago, John Welte said:

John

How do you flush the gray tank?  TIA.

John

At the Rally I won this clear plastic that connects to a short hose and the connector to the flange on the bumper. It has a hose connection and a counter so I don't over fill the tank. I can do both tanks from the rear. I still like the back flush connection for the black tank. I don't have it handy at the moment. It has a handle to keep water filling the tank from emptying, and once full, I turn off the water at the unit and empty. I then close that tank and open the other and repeat.

 

Edited September 9 by John Dorrer
Updated Comment

[johnwen]

Hi Claudia,

When we were in our Casita I had a similar occurrence, but only occasionally and it took me a while to figure it out. The Casita's vent stack exhaust is pretty darn close to the bathrooms ceiling vent fan and when I had the bathroom ceiling vent open but not running along with the bathroom window open and various cabin windows open, air would circulate through the cabin and exit the bathroom window creating a vacuum through the ceiling fan opening and drawing odors from the outside vent stack.  It drove me nuts and would only happen occasionally when the wind conditions were right.  Closing the bathroom ceiling vent cured the problem.  I suppose just closing the bathroom window, to interrupt the airflow through the bathroom, would have worked as well.  That's my only experience and may be worth a try. Hope it's something simple :)

John

[jd1923]

2 hours ago, csevel said:

I've seen your mod and it's truly something that Oliver should consider from stock! It was on my list..Brilliant!

Actually, @Frank C did it first and best, quite detailed using u-clips. Mine was a quick job but the part re mine I like is the rubber seal, inexpensive part too!

[jd1923]

2 hours ago, John Welte said:

How do you flush the gray tank?  TIA.

Get these parts to flush black or gray tanks:

https://a.co/d/1jRtUTP

https://a.co/d/b4RE4F6

https://a.co/d/5eEU0sE

[John Dorrer]

11 hours ago, John Welte said:

John

How do you flush the gray tank?  TIA.

John

I use the Flush King and connect it to a short Camco hose in the bumper. I connect a hose to the connection on the left. The green thing is a "Save a drop" counter so I don't over fill. I dump each tank first. Empty the black and then the gray. I close the gray tank and reopen the black, turn the water on and watch the counter. There is a knob to turn off the water. Empty and repeat with the gray tank. I still like to use the black flush.

Tank Kleen did our tanks at the Rally. The black tank was spotless, but the gray tank was bad.

 

I use their Pine-Sol bath beads solution that Tank Kleen recommends, and add 3 gallons of water into the floor drain and 3 gallons into the toilet so it sloshes around while driving. If boondocking or extended camping I will limit adding water.

Edited September 9 by John Dorrer
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