WDH Required vs. Recommended

[ScottyGS]

Hey Gang,

Just completed a short tow of my LE2 with the new Nissan Titan XD.  It was short and I kept it under 50mph for towing break in and because the leaf spring was stressed but... It towed pretty well.  I used the Anderson as I had previously with the F-150.  

One of the first things I did research on was using a WDH with the new truck.  Here is what I found: 

In the Owners Manual
On page 10-38 " *2: Use of a weight-distributing hitch system is recommended when towing over 5,000 lbs.
In the Towing Guide
On page 5 - "For Armada, Frontier, Pathfinder, and Titan vehicles, a weight distributing hitch ball mount (Class IV) is recommended if you plan to tow trailers with a maximum weight over 5,000 lbs."
On page 22 - "2. Use of a weight-distributing hitch system is required when towing over 5,000 lbs."

There is some confusion over the difference between a "hitch ball mount" and a "weight distributing hitch system". But clearly page 10-38 of the owners manual and page 22 of the towing guide are saying two different things.
So... What's your opinion?   I am going to use the Anderson for liability.    The Titan XD is heavier and has higher payload and towing capacity.

Does the Titan need a WDH over 5k and the Titan XD not?   Anyone work for Nissan?     Or have any advice on contacting them?   

Seems a bit sloppy for an important topic in a tech manual. 

Thanks,

Scotty 

[jd1923]

Try it with and without and you will soon know what you prefer. I skip the Anderson around town, campsite to nearby campsite, but always use it on the highway. There are so many threads here where owners' of 250/2500 trucks voice opinions, many do not use it. My manual says yes for 5000 LBS or 500 LB hitch weight. It's night and day to me when towing over bouncy roads.

[routlaw]

I have an F150 Super Crew and likewise the owners manual makes similar statements, anything over 5000 lbs and 500 lbs tongue weight should use a WDH. Another way to look at it is look at the max tow and tongue weight then cut it in half without a WDH. 

I will add this, over the last couple of weeks I have installed new rear shocks, Bilstein 5100's and the Road Active Suspension System to my truck. The difference is not subtle! Better ride, better comfort, better handling, and better load carrying ability and stability with these new products. I would describe the ride as taut but smooth. There is a certain (probably modest) amount of weight distribution with a properly installed RAS setup. How much I do not know and the company does not make statements addressing this spec. 

Due to the rear height increase with the RAS system it was necessary to reconfigure my truck ball hitch (lower) to properly accommodate the Oliver hitch. Took the rig out for a short spin this afternoon, parked it a couple of times to measure how level the E2 was with new kits and still the the nose is down by an average of about 3/4's of an inch. Not bad, but probably does indicate the need for the Andersen WDH for those who want absolute level while towing. I should also add the tanks were empty and trailer only partially packed, with nothing in the truck bed. 

Hope this helps.

[topgun2]

Scotty - 

I my opinion - use the Andersen at least until you get some unquestionable word (in writing) that you do not need it.  The liability incurred by NOT using it is certainly more than most (if not all) of us can afford.

Bill

[ScottyGS]

1 minute ago, topgun2 said:

Scotty - 

I my opinion - use the Andersen at least until you get some unquestionable word (in writing) that you do not need it.  The liability incurred by NOT using it is certainly more than most (if not all) of us can afford.

Bill

Hey Bill,

Couldn't agree more.  Thought for a bit that I had a choice... but I kept reading.  Once they say "required" the choice is made.   

But it is frustrating that Nissan... and probably a lot of other mfg's are either non-precise, or more likely just want to cover their hind quarters.  

Shame too...   The truck is a beast...  I call it a 5/8th ton.   I am sure it would do fine without a WDH but I really don't want to sit in court and have the plaintiffs attorney read out page 22 to the jury. 

Happy Camping

Scotty 

[Chukarhunter]

After four years of towing my LE II and reading countless threads on the Anderson and cargo capacities in general, I have come to the following conclusions.

The Anderson improves the towing experience and aids in control of the vehicle in emergency maneuvers.

The additional time to hook up the Anderson is negligible compared to the increased safety and driveability it provides

If your manual states that a weight distributing hitch is required when towing over 5,000 lbs, it is because it is probably not possible to take advantage of the entire cargo capacity of the TV without using a weight distributing hitch.  This is because cargo capacity as stated on the doorjamb sticker is always a product of the maximum front axle loading capacity plus the maximum rear axle loading capacity.  It is often overlooked, but you can be driving down the highway with your Gross Vehicle weight 300 lbs UNDER the rated GVWR, but if the rear axle is loaded over the maximum rear axle weight, then you are overloaded.  When a vehicle manufacturer states that a weight distributing hitch is required when towing over 5,000 lbs, they have assumed that when towing a trailer with a 500 lb tor higher tongue weight, it is not possible to load the vehicle to its rated cargo capacity (i.e., loaded to maximum GVWR) without overloading the rear axle axle.  If you weigh at a scale, it is important that you weigh the front axle and the rear axle.  If one is over its rating, the maximum rated cargo capacity of your TV is irrelevant.

I am no expert and I hope others will correct me or provide the appropriate caveats to my description above if advisable.

[Jason Foster]

The manual on our 2014 Ram doesn't mention "recommended" or "required".  The only thing it has is the definition of a weight distribution hitch.

 

[Boilermaker Chemist]

5 hours ago, topgun2 said:

Scotty - 

I my opinion - use the Andersen at least until you get some unquestionable word (in writing) that you do not need it.  The liability incurred by NOT using it is certainly more than most (if not all) of us can afford.

Bill

Just to emphasize that point, if you would be involved in an accident, you can be sure that the insurance companies will look into the details. If they find that you weren’t using a weight distribution hitch even though one was recommended, there’s a good chance they won’t cover the damages to your vehicles nor your liability for any damage or injury to other parties. 

Edited September 26 by Boilermaker Chemist

[ScottyGS]

9 hours ago, Chukarhunter said:

If your manual states that a weight distributing hitch is required when towing over 5,000 lbs, it is because it is probably not possible to take advantage of the entire cargo capacity of the TV without using a weight distributing hitch.  This is because cargo capacity as stated on the doorjamb sticker is always a product of the maximum front axle loading capacity plus the maximum rear axle loading capacity.  It is often overlooked, but you can be driving down the highway with your Gross Vehicle weight 300 lbs UNDER the rated GVWR, but if the rear axle is loaded over the maximum rear axle weight, then you are overloaded.  When a vehicle manufacturer states that a weight distributing hitch is required when towing over 5,000 lbs, they have assumed that when towing a trailer with a 500 lb tor higher tongue weight, it is not possible to load the vehicle to its rated cargo capacity (i.e., loaded to maximum GVWR) without overloading the rear axle axle.  If you weigh at a scale, it is important that you weigh the front axle and the rear axle.  If one is over its rating, the maximum rated cargo capacity of your TV is irrelevant.

I am no expert and I hope others will correct me or provide the appropriate caveats to my description above if advisable.

No issues using the Anderson.... it's been 8+ years and I am used to it.  

I'm pretty sure that mfg's obtain the payload (cargo) capacity by subtracting curb weight from the GVWR.   Agreed that you have to pay attention to axle ratings, but this truck has a RAWR of 4900 lbs.  It dropped an inch when I hooked up the LE2.  The lightly loaded (damn near empty) LE2.  Got it riding nice and level by flipping the hitch.  We'll see how that goes when we load up for a trip.  I think it's more likely that Nissan (and probably most other mfg's) think that requiring a WDH reduces their liability.  Not an engineer so I have no idea what the "science" is behind making that determination. 

Plus the Titan XD is "beefier" than the Titan.   A bit over 600 lbs difference in max payload.  If Nissan wanted to do the work I am sure they would determine that a WDH is not "required".   

But again.... it's all academic.   Thanks for the reply.  It will be interesting to see what the numbers are at the scale. 

Scotty  

[ScottyGS]

13 hours ago, routlaw said:

I will add this, over the last couple of weeks I have installed new rear shocks, Bilstein 5100's and the Road Active Suspension System to my truck. The difference is not subtle! Better ride, better comfort, better handling, and better load carrying ability and stability with these new products. I would describe the ride as taut but smooth. There is a certain (probably modest) amount of weight distribution with a properly installed RAS setup. How much I do not know and the company does not make statements addressing this spec. 

 

Rob,

Thanks for that info.  I was considering airbags but now will do some research on RAS vs. airbags.   I have to say that the "ride" with the Titan was better than my F150.  Will have to see what a fully loaded setup brings but looks promising at this point.  

Take care and thanks again. 

Scotty

[routlaw]

4 hours ago, ScottyGS said:

Rob,

Thanks for that info.  I was considering airbags but now will do some research on RAS vs. airbags.   I have to say that the "ride" with the Titan was better than my F150.  Will have to see what a fully loaded setup brings but looks promising at this point.  

Take care and thanks again. 

Scotty

It's my understanding the general consensus is the RAS is much better than air bags, but not having tried air bags can't make any claim for this. Can't recommend it enough as well as the Bilstein shocks but also hear the Fox shocks are awesome to but the investment on those can be as high as $2-$3K ± . My gut feeling is most if not all new trucks have at best mediocre shocks from the factory. 

[dewdev]

@ScottyGS FYI

My previous 2018 RAM 1500 Rebel had air shocks and towed the Ollie pretty nice and was very stable going over bumps.

I upgraded to a 2024 RAM 1500 Laramie and when connected to the Ollie, I found that the suspension was a lot looser and the truck bounced excessively when hitting bumps.

I went to a place to get pricing for adding air suspension system to the rear of the truck and the owner of the store, suggested instead to add a TIMBREN spring (bumper stop) system which he uses on his own 1500 truck when halling his 8500 lb trailer instead of installing a air suspension system. The TIMBREN system replaces the existing rear bumper stops and is installed in the existing bumper stop cup. The price is a lot lower than air shocks and you do not have to worry about the air system loosening air. 

With the TIMBREN system installed, when I connected the Ollie, the rear end of the Laramie only went down about 1" instead of 2" or 3" before the TIMBREN install. This necessitated the readjustment of the Anderson hitch height. When traveling now with the Ollie connected, the Laramie ride is now a lot more stable and does not bounce excessively when going over road bumps.

Edited September 26 by dewdev

[Ronbrink]

On 9/26/2024 at 6:09 AM, ScottyGS said:

I was considering airbags but now will do some research on RAS vs. airbags. 

20 hours ago, routlaw said:

It's my understanding the general consensus is the RAS is much better than air bags, but not having tried air bags can't make any claim for this.

I installed an Air Lift LoadLifter 5000 air suspension kit on my TV soon after purchasing my OLEll. This system compensates for side-to-side weight distribution and cargo shifting, and is very useful in adjusting the rear height to level the trailer when towing. I also find it helpful in dumping the waste tanks by lifting the tongue high for improved discharge. 

[Rivernerd]

1 hour ago, Ronbrink said:

I installed an Air Lift LoadLifter 5000 air suspension kit on my TV soon after purchasing my OLEll.

Me too.  When inflated to about 20 PSI, it helps eliminate "jounce" when going over bumps.

[Ronbrink]

7 hours ago, Rivernerd said:

Me too.  When inflated to about 20 PSI, it helps eliminate "jounce" when going over bumps.

I run 20 psi when just truck’n around, 30 when towing the Oliver, Today’s dump at 60 psi!

[mossemi]

13 hours ago, Ronbrink said:

I run 20 psi when just truck’n around, 30 when towing the Oliver, Today’s dump at 60 psi!

That’s a great solution for all of the dump sites that were designed for dump valves located in the middle of the camper.  We Ollie owners have to get creative!  Well done!

Mossey

[Ronbrink]

18 minutes ago, mossemi said:

That’s a great solution for all of the dump sites that were designed for dump valves located in the middle of the camper.  We Ollie owners have to get creative!  Well done!

Mossey

True that! At times when positioning to dump the back of the Oliver will be a tad higher than the tongue with the TV sloped downward; like the dump point is on a slight peak, perhaps to accommodate runoff. That was the case yesterday at the newly installed dump site next to the new park headquarters at Tyler SP. Typically a lift with 60-70 psi gets it done, but as much as 80 at a few sites encountered.