Battleborn Battery Safety Issue

[mossemi]

2 hours ago, CRM said:

And is it me, or is the bolt on the Battleborn battery that he says is too small and the equivalent of a 6 awg cable look to be the same size used on the Lithionics battery main connections?

CRM get a gold star for his observation, because I can confirm that the terminal bolts on my 3 100 amp hour BB's are 8mm or 5/16".  My 320 amp hour Lithionic battery has the same 8mm or 5/16" terminal bolts.

Mossey

[jd1923]

4 hours ago, mossemi said:

CRM get a gold star for his observation, because I can confirm that the terminal bolts on my 3 100 amp hour BB's are 8mm or 5/16".  My 320 amp hour Lithionic battery has the same 8mm or 5/16" terminal bolts. Mossey

Mossey, you have both BB and Lithionic batteries?

8mm is pretty much standard, same on Epoch.

[Steve and MA]

It looks like the issue is the bolt inside the BB that conducts (and resists) all of the current. A plastic spacer separating the internal buss bar from the terminal prevents direct connection of the two.

The external terminal connections on the BB as well as the Lithionics do not rely on the bolts as part of the circuit. For both designs, the battery cables are held directly against the battery terminals when properly connected.  There's much more surface area contact between them than just an 8mm bolt. 

Edited Friday at 10:23 PM by Steve and MA
Added picture of BB internal terminal bolted to buss bar

[mossemi]

1 hour ago, jd1923 said:

5 hours ago, mossemi said:

 

Mossey, you have both BB and Lithionic batteries?

Yep!  I bought the BB's in 2020.  I won the Lithionics battery at the 2025 OTTO's Rally.   I haven’t installed the Lithionics battery yet, because my onboard charger is not approved by Lithionics.  A MP2 is a future project.

Mossey

 

[rideandfly]

Temperature tags or something similar may be a good idea for both batteries, too. Like the idea of being able to check battery temps with the smart phone. 

Here's my current plan to monitor the 100AH BB temperature connected to the load, subject to change, will see.

We have two 100AH BB connected parallel in our Ollie.  Since we have one Victron IP65 Bluetooth SmartShunt, going to connect the + BB battery terminal to the Shunt temperature sensor that the + load/charge cable is also connected to. We don't have an inverter or factory installed solar. Battery charge comes from a Progressive Dynamics 4045 converter/charger or our two 100W solar suitcases. 

The reason I installed a Victron IP65 SmartShunt in the battery compartment is because it's waterproof. Here's a Q&A on the Victron forum about connecting the IP65 SmartShunt to the Victron temperature sensor splicing to the correct IP65 wires:

https://communityarchive.victronenergy.com/questions/213907/temp-sensor-with-smartshunt-500a-ip65.html

 

 

 

 

Edited Saturday at 12:34 AM by rideandfly

[Geronimo John]

Steve great picture!

GJ

Edited Saturday at 03:33 AM by Geronimo John

[Patriot]

Another vid from Will on a new issue with BB’s.🤔

 

Edited Sunday at 12:08 AM by Patriot

[Cort]

16 hours ago, Patriot said:

Another vid from Will on a new issue with BB’s.🤔

 

Good for Will for testing a new battery. I was getting a little down on him for posing that everyone should get rid of their BB's.  I wonder if its an applicable test? Apparently BB should be able to handle this but when I looked this up on AI it said this is a very severe test of the batteries and they will heat up.  Unless I have this wrong - under normal circumstances we would never draw nearly this much power from a battery (???)

[jd1923]

22 minutes ago, Cort said:

Unless I have this wrong - under normal circumstances we would never draw nearly this much power from a battery (???)

It depends on your total Ah and usage...

I certainly agree with Will on two points (his snarky way makes me 🤣, although if you own BBs it's certainly not funny). First, these are truly OVERPRICED in today's market and he ran a valid test. Second as he stated, I wonder if BB the company has reprogrammed these to produce less output which of course results in less heat produced. Of course units sold years ago would not be programmed as such unless you can/have updated firmware.

More on your question... Running a 1100W coffee machine is drawing 90A (1100/12 for 12VDC). Running a blow-dryer or A/C could pull 1800W or 150A . So any 1100W appliance is very close to his 99A test which I would call normal use. If you were running on a single 100 Ah, I'd say you'd be screwed!

HOWEVER, not to worry as most of you have two or three 100 Ah BB batteries. Say you have 3 batteries the amperage is split, so the 1100W appliance that pulls 90A will pull 30A from each battery (more "normal circumstances"). This is why most of you have not had heat issues. The fact that the Gold Standard, premium priced battery can only produce half of their spec!!! If you bought BB new recently, I'd strongly suggest asking for your money back.

In contrast, the 300 Ah Epoch Essential can draw 100A recommended and 200A maximum (400A peak for 10s). 300 Ah at $1200 list price is $4/Ah rating ($3.40/Ah when on sale 15% off). The BB at the $800 current sale price is more than double the cost at $8/Ah.

If the 100 Ah BB could truly produce 100A discharge, 3 BBs would be far superior to one 300 Ah Epoch (only) in its ability to produce discharge output. But If actual numbers are 50% less, then the output capacity is about the same.

Most Oliver Owners who upgraded to Epoch have installed two 300 Ah batteries (600 Ah for 85% the cost of 3 100 Ah BBs today, when both are on sale). Two have a discharge capacity of 200A, maximum 400A which means you can run that noisy Dometic P2 A/C (150A+) all day, under spec/no heat issues, or until you get low on SOC! 😎 

[John Dorrer]

Mike Sokol posted another email newsletter on Battleborn. It is too long to screen shot, so you will need to get on the newsletter mailing.

[John Dorrer]

Here is the whole article