half-ton trucks

[topgun2]

Consider it deleted -

 

Bill

[mountainoliver]

Spike, I guess you will need to answer that. Check your “ready to camp” tongue weight. If it is greater than what Toyota recommends then you’ll need a weight distribution hitch. Tongue weight should be tested with the camper on a level surface with the camper level as well, otherwise the axle springs will affect the reading. That is they will make the reading look greater or less than it really is. Ready to camp weight needs to include everything like water, food, clothing, everything. You can also weigh your ready to camp rig. I use the CAT scales. The truck front wheels go on one platform, truck rear wheels go on another platform and the trailer wheels go on the third platform. All these added up gives gross weight, that is truck and contents (including passengers), and camper and camper contents. This is all still really confusing to me but I think this will give all the information needed. This will tell you how much weight is on your trucks front and rear axles. To get true camper gross weight you’ll need to unhitch and let the camper free stand on one of the scale platforms. Any other input is appreciated. Hope this is of some help.

[Maverick]

mountainoliver wrote:

Spike, I’m guessing that your tongue weight is over what Toyota allows by not using a weight distribution hitch.

Thanks for the warning, mountainoliver. I will look into it. I sure have not experienced any signs or symptoms of trouble. (I DO have truck tires.) Anyone else out there have an opinion and/or suggestion about ways to check if this is indeed a problem that I need to address?

 

 

 

 

 

 

I also tow with a 2016 Toyota Tundra 4x4 Crew Limited and have had no issues; and we have traveled all over the U.S.A. but I do use a Anderson WDH.  I would not pull a trailer of this size with any type of vehicle without a WDH; we have owned several travel trailers and have used WDH's on each trailer.

 

As for the 2016 Toyota Tundra maximum tongue weight is 980 lbs according to Toyota's Product Information Data Sheet.

[KWRJRPE]

I have a 2015 Toyota Tundra Limited, 5.7L, 4WD double cab, with LEER cap, and will pickup Oliver in April 2019. This afternoon I created the attached spreadsheet to help me check my own situation (it is raining in FL, so, nothing better to do today).  There is a  good chance the sheet is created incorrectly, or the inputs are wrong - I would appreciate a critical look over.  If my sheet is correct, my Tundra GVWR (7100lbs) is within 25lbs of the Gross Vehicle Weight (people, cargo, hitch, tongue weight).  Too close.  I am seriously considering going truck shopping.

[rideandfly]

We tow with a 2016 5.7L 4X4 Tundra SR5 double cab with light truck tires.

 

Reading through the operators manual today and it states trailer over 5000 pounds requires a WDH. Did not find other statements requiring WDH.

 

Recommended tongue weight is 9 to 11% of trailer weight, so trailers weighing 5001 pounds require WDH with recommended tongue weights from 450 lbs to 550 lbs.

 

The manual also states if you tow any trailer over 2000 pounds, the trailer requires a sway device.

 

Information from operators manual and drivers door tag weight capacities for our Tundra.

 

Tundra GVWR 7100 lbs

 

Tundra maximum Front Axle weight GAWR 4000 pounds

 

Tundra maximum Rear Axle weight GAWR 4150 lbs

 

Tundra combined maximum weight GCWR 16,000 pounds

 

Tundra maximum towed trailer weight 9800 pounds

 

 

[KWRJRPE]

In case anyone is bored enough to wade through the Excel sheet I attached earlier, I think I found an error in my calculation sheet.  I included both a tongue weight (10% of the total trailer weight) AND a hitch weight (460lbs that Oliver provided in their spec sheet).  Now that I am thinking about it, the hitch weight is probably meant to be the tongue weight.

[John E Davies]

Interesting side note.... my Land Cruiser 200 has a rating of 8500/ 850 lbs, but the manual makes no mention whatsoever about a WD hitch. Which is most definitely needed with 600 to 700 lbs on the hitch.....

 

The truck is way shorter than a Tundra and more softly sprung, but the frame is 20% stronger. Strange indeed....

 

But hardly any 200 owner ever tows even a dinky trailer. Mine is unusual in that I work it hard.

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

[cptdondo]

I just test drove a Silverado 3500HD Duramax. What a beast!!!  Total overkill, but you would never ever have to worry about anything Oliver sized back there.  Reminds me of driving the original Humvees with all the armour.  All it needs is a machine gun mount......

 

Now to find one I can actually afford.  :)

[Landrover]

The 2500 HD duramax is overkill the 3500 way overkill but I guess you could always carry the Oliver in the bed instead of towing it. Surprisingly the 3500 HD dually is less money, not by much. I guess there not as popular as the 2500 HD

[Landrover]

Oh yeah a gun turret out of the roof of the Ollie would be awesome lol.

[ScubaRx]

Be aware that OEM tire pressure sensors are NOT available on the 3500HD Silverado.

[KWRJRPE]

I was all content with my paid off 2015 Toyota Tundra 5.7L, 4WD, Limited Edition, 55K miles, excellent condition, for picking up my April 2019 Oliver Elite II and using it as my tow vehicle, but now all of a sudden I find myself considering purchasing a more powerful diesel tow vehicle.  My problem, I always want new, high end stuff (one of the reasons I selected an Oliver).  So, my options for 3/4 tons are all pretty pricey (unless my lottery ticket is a winner this week).  A new Ford F250 diesel with the platinum trim package is up toward $80K (who does that?).  However, I have a good friend who works at Nissan can get me a "friend" discount on a new 2018 Titan XD, 5.0L diesel, top of the line Platinum Reserve package, with friend discount plus current incentives for $50K.    I know nothing about Titan XD trucks (and very little about Ford, GMC, or diesel for that matter).  Been a faithful and happy Toyota owner for many years and purchased several Toyota vehicles.  This is uncharted territory for me. I welcome any opinions regarding the 2018 Titan XD diesel (some refer to is as a 5/8 ton truck) compared to the "true" 3/4 Ford and GMC trucks.   I will be test driving the Titan XD Platinum Reserve Diesel tomorrow and I am worried the 2018 model dealer incentives will expire soon.  On the other hand, I am certain my 1/2 ton Tundra will handle the job, but as I have learned from this forum, the numbers are close and the 1/2 ton might struggle at times.  Seems the larger 3/4 ton diesel trucks can handle the job with minimal effort (except, not sure about this 5/8 ton truck).   Opinions and thoughts?

[KountryKamper]

I would tip toe into this. We had a Trunda Limited we traded for our GMC. We are planning much longer trips these days and hope to be on the road more over the next few years. Don't misunderstand, the Tundra did a good job pulling our E2. It was maxed out but had no problem pulling it. Yes our 3/4 ton does a much better job and is more relaxing when towing.

 

I can't give any help on the Nissan but will say this. I payed 10k more for a top of the line GMC. I would think the Nissan should be capable but would not settle for something less then what I wanted when spending that kind of money.

[Landrover]

One more thing to consider with the diesel choice. The transmissions I don't know anything about the Nissan. The Allison transmission is in the Chevy and gmc proven to be one of the best transmission. They are used in many diesel applications except ford and dodge. Through another wrench into the discussion.

[Landrover]

One thing I do hate auto spell corrections. Lol

[CedarForks]

Is there some other way to download the attachment? I've tried many strategies; all in vain...

 

(reference: the spreadsheet attached by KWRJRPE above)

[BackofBeyond]

 

 

It is a tough thing to do - replace a truck you love, especially one so close to meeting the demands of the task at hand. However, once I decided my old truck was just not up to the task - hauling my Oliver EII around North America - I mentally moved on to finding a replacement. The old GMC brought a nice return, and the new owner was very happy.

 

Some of the new 1/2 ton trucks are fine hauling a EII, I wanted a 3/4 ton - payload was why. Planned to add a camper top, and haul around all our gear, boats, bikes, a menagerie of  play toys, and the ever present cool and (un) necessary camping "stuff".

 

Gas? - Diesel? Ford/GMC/Ram?, or something else. $70k+ wow, jeeze, really, that's a lot of $$$, for a truck... Like every purchase of this magnitude, you go do the research. $10k for the Diesel over gas, but performance is almost twice that - for towing, fuel mileage when towing also better, fluids more expensive, more complexity, OK, really look at a gas truck. I did, towing fuel mileage, was horrible, run the numbers. If I keep the diesel for 100K miles, the extra $10K starts to approach $$ parity. Diesel it is. Ram - not in the game - my choice. The other truck mfg. DO NOT build a comparable truck  - 3/4 ton- anything less is not the same. Take a look underneath, chassis and axles are not as HD.  Close, but not the same. I love Toyota, helped build Nissans, own a Honda, but they don't build a 3/4 ton truck.

 

Not going to argue GM over Ford. I test drove both -  several times - over several weeks, knew everything about them - everything!. I finally went with the 2018 GMC 2500 Duramax, with Allison transmission. Proven powertrains.  I am very happy with my choice. The WWW has enough info out there to make an informed choice, real world testing just reinforces what you read. Salespeople, usually are just ignorant on their products - my observations. I'd prefer dealing with a robot.

 

In a GMC, the SLT is the sweet spot, no need to go upscale to Denali, same with Ford - the Platinum is more bells and whistles, $$$ for stuff I didn't need or want.  I found the GMC I wanted, for <$60K. Took some effort, but it was worth it, and my SO was happy - win.

 

Ultimately, it was a leap to pay up for the Oliver, but once we did, it did not make sense to purchase a TV that was not similar - tops in its class. Several thousand miles and multiple trips more than confirm the choices - I love the Oliver, and getting to and fro, in the GMC, is just a comfortable, easy feeling. We are happy.

 

As has been stated, take your time, tow with your current set-up, evaluate, discuss, really understand where you plan to go in this vast country, how often, and once you feel comfortable understanding the variables, you may be content with your current TV, if not, well -  the rest is just money (ha ha) and decision.

 

Hope this helps, enjoy the process, have fun,

 

May the force be with you...

 

RB

 

[attachment file=20180820_162145 (693).jpg]

 

 

 

 

[KWRJRPE]

BackofBeyond

 

Thank you so much for your thoughtful and helpful comments (And, the great pictures - excellent looking rig).  Your response has really helped me move my thinking forward.  I have been liking the GMC and, after reading your comments, decided to focus my research on GMC and not bother with Nissan or Ford.  Very helpful!  I am in no rush, so, should be able to find the perfect trim and price for my needs.  Once again, thank you for taking time to share your story.

[topgun2]

I'd venture to say that for the majority of Elite II owners, 1/2 ton trucks are the way to go for towing.  I've never had an once of problem with either of the two that I've used to tow my Oliver.  No brake issues in the Rockies, no power issues there either or even getting onto Interstates when more acceleration is needed - that 3.5 Ecoboost engine is really surprising.  The ride, quiet, amenities are all super.

 

However, I should noted that 90% of the time I travel alone.  I also travel fair light - rarely do I have the fresh water tank, grey water or black tanks filled.  I only carry three cooking pots, have paper plates and plastic utensils.  No pets either and music, books, and most videos are all on digital media.  My BBQ grill is of the old fashion variety - light and with charcoal.  Fishing gear is light weight.  Bear spray, side arms and ammo are fairly heavy but I don't carry a bunch of that either.

 

I guess that I'm fortunate in that my overall size is what many would consider (at least these days) to be on the smaller side and I marvel at those that say total human weight is upwards of 500 pounds.  But, I also understand that if you are going to be towing the Elite II for months at a time with a heavy cargo load (to include human weight) a towing vehicle larger than a 1/2 ton is not only numerically required, but, is probably more comfortable and safer too (i.e. cargo capacity is either at or too close to the vehicle limit for comfort).

 

As has been said many time before - each of us should get informed as to what is required (with a nice safety margin build in), what our intended usage is going to be and what we must/should do in order to satisfy these demands.  Certainly - one size does not fit all.

 

Bill

[KWRJRPE]

I apologize with struggles with my attachment - once again, I have done something incorrect in my previous attempt to attach the PDF describing the Nissan Titan XD truck I was considering.  [attachment file=Coggin Nissan 2018 Titan XD.pdf]

 

Let me try again.

Coggin-Nissan-2018-Titan-XD.pdf

[John E Davies]

I have not driven a Nissan Titan but my go-to source for reviews is Car and Driver and they hate the diesel version. The 5.0 has so much to promise. Maybe with an aftermarket tune it would be really good. I would love to see a refined version of that lighter shorter engine offered in a Power Wagon..... Ram was originally going to use that engine, they cancelled the project and Cummins sold them to Nissan.

 

https://www.caranddriver.com/nissan/titan-xd

 

In reality, any big V8 gas engine will have the power you need unless you must have the cruising range, which is not an insignificant factor - fuel tank worries vanish when you can tow 600 miles before refueling. The  BIG factors are always payload, axle ratios, and how much you plan to drag around in the truck.

 

Keep the Tundra, it will do just fine. You have the power and the gearing you need, though you might want to add rear airbags for levelling.

 

Unless it doesn’t carry enough stuff, then you can do something about it. Maybe a new Tundra HD Diesel will be available next year, they are doing work on the replacement model, though nobody knows if we will ever get a diesel like the rest of the world.. I would buy that truck in a heartbeat. Nissans don’t hold up like Toyotas. The buld quality just isn’t there, even in their high end luxury SUV.

 

https://www.motor1.com/news/302530/2020-toyota-tundra-spied-first-time/

 

Calculate how much money you would lose by trading in your current truck. I bet it would buy a whole lot of gasoline....

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

 

 

 

 

[Mike and Carol]

I apologize with struggles with my attachment – once again, I have done something incorrect in my previous attempt to attach the PDF describing the Nissan Titan XD truck I was considering. Coggin-Nissan-2018-Titan-XD

 

Let me try again.

The attachment opens fine for me. I’m on an iPad (we’re traveling) and it opened on the first click - nice truck.

 

This is an interesting discussion. When we first started looking for a trailer I had a 2012 Tacoma and wanted something I could tow with it. When I found the Oliver I knew I was at the upper limit but didn’t want to get a new truck. The Tacoma was fine and did the job. I just had to stop every couple of hours for gas and couldn’t carry much in the bed. After 6K miles I traded for my Ram 1500. Much better, big gas tank, lots of towing features, more cargo capability. I plan on replacing it next year and am looking at going bigger again! The all new Ram 2500 looks nice as does the GM and Ford. The more miles I tow the more I appreciate the capabilities and advantages of larger trucks. Mike

 

[BackofBeyond]

Funny - the references to cruising ranges - seems each additional year I'm around - my personal cruising range decreases - however, having the option is nice, especially in BC , the Yukon, and AK. Fuel stops are not always --- fuel stops. I got to believing 1/2 tank was almost empty, and went from there.

 

Just to clarify - I chose a GMC, but the Ford was right there, Ram, I'm just not a Ram fan, nothing wrong with them. If and when the big T offers a 3/4 ton, it will be an interesting choice. I doubt it ever happens, seems they are content with the current line up,  but you never know. As JD ponders, a well thought out, diesel HD version of the current truck would be in the cards sooner than a whole new truck.

[rideandfly]

We have two pickup trucks a 2003 2.4L manual 5 speed Tacoma and 2016 5.7L 4X4 Tundra. Purchased the Tundra new for $37,000 and works fine for us towing our LE2, should not need replacement for years. We will eventually replace the 2003 Tacoma that we purchased new for less than $13,000, it only has 165,000 miles and runs great, so it will probably be years before it needs to be replaced with a mid sized pickup.

 

We tow our LE2 with empty tanks and keep Ollie lightly loaded for local trips and cross country from the Carolinas. We see fuel economy between 12 and 13MPG, depending on speed and terrain.  I have been guilty of taking excessive gear/supplies camping that we never used, so that's one way to reduce overall weight when camping. We have a Diamond Back cover on the Tundra that's light & handy for our camping needs. Weighed our Tundra/Ollie rig and Tundra on CAT Scales during 2017 & 2018 and rig is under all of Tundra's maximum capacities, but loading is important where gear is stored.

 

Our longest Tundra/Ollie tow day was 720 miles so far (Tundra has 38 gallon fuel tank) we were in a hurry to get back to the Carolinas from CO when a hurricane was approaching home.

 

Here's a shot of our rig with Diamond Back cover camping in TN:

 

 

Nothing to do with this conversation, took this Vintage Dodge Power Wagon photo at a Vintage aircraft gathering at Lock Haven PA, always liked the looks of this truck, since we like pickup trucks!!!!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BackofBeyond]

Please excuse the drool - I am a  sucker for the old Power wagons, any old vintage workhorse 4WD of that era. I've almost always stop and inspected them every time I drive past one. I remember a few in CO, a couple between here and there, and a really cool one - somewhere in AK.