Battle Born Lithium Ion 12 Volt Batteries in an Oliver?

[donthompson]

I've spent some time on the phone with Battle Born. They tell me that their batteries are compatible with the Xantrex inverter and Blue Sky controller in my 2016 Elite II. Among the advantages they promote are: 1) you can draw the batteries down to 0% without damaging the batteries or reducing the lifespan of the batteries; 2) 3,000 to 5,000 discharge/charge cycles compared to 300-500 for my batteries; 3) a 10-year warranty: 8-year full replacement and last 2-years pro rated; and 4) they produce full power no matter what the discharge rate is.

 

I don't know how many usable amp hours I have with my 4 Trojan T-105 deep cycle batteries. Battle Born says 2 of their 12v batteries would give me 200 usable amp hours, 3 would give me 300 and 4 would produce 400 usable amp hours.

 

My camping style is to boondock as much as possible and to avoid times/places where I need to run my A/C. So, I don't use a generator (I don't own one) and I take full advantage of the factory installed solar panels and have a 120-watt Zamp portable panel as a backup. I've been very happy with my set up but I've had to leave great boondocking spots when the weather changes and a couple of days of rain set in.

 

The Battle Born batteries weigh less than 1/2 of the weight of my Trojan batteries. 30 lbs. v. 62 lbs. The dimensions are 12.75L, 6.8W, and 9H--all in inches. The Trojans are 10.3L, 7.11W and 11.07H. I haven't tried to figure out whether I can fit 4 in my battery compartment, but I'm thinking of starting with 2 and upgrading if I need more amp hours.

 

So, I'm interested in finding out if any of you on the forum have made the switch to Battle Born and if so, the pros and cons based on your experiences. Also, I welcome any comments by knowledgeable forum members who have not made the switch. I'm also curious about how many usable amp hours my 4 6V Trojan batteries povide.

 

Cost is obviously a factor. The Battle Born batteries are "on sale" now for $949 per battery with free shipping and no sales tax.

[Overland]

I have the Battleborns. The only con is their size. But you can fit four in the Elite II tray if you place them vertically. Also, you’ll find that while technically you can use 100% of their capacity, their voltage drops off a cliff at about 90%. Still, that’s a considerable improvement over lead acid, and from a performance standpoint I have zero complaints.

 

The Lifeline rep at the rally said that they will be introducing a similar product soon.

 

Resellers have a good margin so you might be able to find a better deal. I got mine through Inverter Supply.

 

I would suggest that you upgrade your battery monitor at the same time, since it’s more difficult to judge an LFP’s state of charge from voltage alone. A few of us have the Victron BMV, which are highly rated. If you get their Bluetooth version, then you won’t have to mount anything in the trailer. Simply secure the monitor in the hull and use their phone app.

 

[Vector - Lanham]

Great information.  Three things:

Like Overland alluded, you can mount them in any physical position, since they will not "leak."

They also do not off-gas, so you could conceivable mount them in the basement or in an otherwise unorthodox location, presuming your wiring had good pathways.

I've also researched them, and hope that competition and a more evolved product life-cycle (no pun intended) will bring about some price decreases.

v/r, Vector

[John E Davies]

I know nothing about these batteries.... do they have a thermal runaway fire risk like conventional lithium battery packs? If not, how is this prevented?

 

I would really be interested in this mod, but I would most likely wait a few years until my AGM batteries get tired, I win the lottery, or the price drops significantly.

 

Thanks,

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

[donthompson]

Overland, are you referring to the Victron BMV-712 Smart?

 

Don

[ScubaRx]

I don’t know how many usable amp hours I have with my 4 Trojan T-105 deep cycle batteries...

 

You have 225 usable amp hours (50%)

[Overland]

Overland, are you referring to the Victron BMV-712 Smart?

 

Don

 

 

Correct

[Overland]

…. do they have a thermal runaway fire risk like conventional lithium battery packs? If not, how is this prevented?

They don’t, mainly due to their chemistry. It’s the LCO lithiums that can have issues with thermal stability and which are typically used in phones and laptops.

 

Here’s a good primer on lithium battery types that discusses the pros and cons of each. LFP has its drawbacks but it’s the safest along with LTO.

[Overland]

Vector, the ideal location would be lined up in a tray that extends from the dinette to the bed, under the pantry.  That would provide a low COG while keeping their weight centered on the axles.  It would also keep them closer to room temperature which would aid charging in cold weather. There’s room for at least five batteries there, perhaps six, but the main issue is finding a method to mount them securely. They’d also be a pain to install and remove but perhaps an access hatch under the pantry would solve that.

[Vector - Lanham]

Excellent design idea.

[Overland]

Here’s a tip - so long as you buy at least one solar panel the same year as you buy the batteries, you can claim the 30% solar tax credit on the batteries, using your trailer as a second home.

[Vector - Lanham]

Now that's interesting, i just bought 4 AGMs from OTT to replace my kaput ones...so if i buy a suitcase solar panel (i already have the mounted ones) maybe I can get those off of the taxes...hmm...Great Idea., thanks.

 

 

 

https://news.energysage.com/congress-extends-the-solar-tax-credit/

[Maverick]

Now that’s interesting, i just bought 4 AGMs from OTT to replace my kaput ones…so if i buy a suitcase solar panel (i already have the mounted ones) maybe I can get those off of the taxes…hmm…Great Idea., thanks.

 

 

 

https://news.energysage.com/congress-extends-the-solar-tax-credit/

 

Vector:

 

It appears you only got 3 years of life out of your AGM batteries; that is not much time for these batteries.

[Overland]

Now that’s interesting, i just bought 4 AGMs from OTT to replace my kaput ones…so if i buy a suitcase solar panel (i already have the mounted ones) maybe I can get those off of the taxes…hmm…Great Idea., thanks.

 

 

 

https://news.energysage.com/congress-extends-the-solar-tax-credit/

 

Yep. You could get the credit on both. When we did ours, we took the credit for all our panels, batteries, charger, charge controller, inverter, monitors, wiring, etc. Saved us a ton of money.

 

Most don’t realize that you can take the credit on the factory solar option and battery upgrades when you buy new.

[Corcomi]

In the latest issue of FMCA there was an article about who they have teamed up with to offer lithium batteries. Here is the press release

 

FMCA RV Club Introduces New Battery Benefit For Members

Cincinnati, Ohio — FMCA, an international association for RV owners, has announced a new partnership with Briter Products, creator and contract manufacturer of Ion-Ready© lithium-iron-phosphate (LiFePO4) batteries designed specifically for RV use.

 

Lithium-iron-phosphate batteries have various advantages over conventional lead-acid batteries used in RVs. LiFePO4 batteries have twice the power and are about half the size and weight of lead-acid batteries; have a longer life expectancy; are fast charging; and can be mounted internally or externally in various positions, among other benefits.

 

Briter Products’ Ion-Ready© 12-volt batteries are designed with safety in mind. Each battery is encased in powder-coated steel to ensure durability, whether installed internally or externally. The battery’s cells are protected against vibrations or impact, and mechanical and electrical components provide stable conditions for the charging, storage, and delivery of power. Other safety features include fuse protection between each cell, charge-discharge protection, and internal heat sensing. Internal connections are robotically bolted and torqued rather than soldered. This helps them to withstand road vibrations and prevents problems and safety concerns associated with bad connections, such as short-circuiting.

 

Each battery incorporates an LCD status screen that either is placed on top of the battery or on the side, depending on the model, which allows for installation flexibility. A proprietary battery management system maintains internal cell balance and monitors power, temperature, and charging for enhanced performance and service.

 

With the new partnership, Briter Products is offering FMCA members special member-only pricing on a battery and charger bundle, reduced rates on installation, and the option to purchase an extended warranty for an additional 5 years; each battery comes with a standard 5-year warranty from the date of purchase.

 

To join FMCA, visit www.FMCA.com or call (800) 543-3622 or (513) 474-3622.

[John E Davies]

Do the new tax laws allow you to take the solar credit if you don’t itemize deductions? I took the credit in 2017 fo the solar package, batteries, inverter and external solar port when I bought “Mouse”. I don’t itemize any more.

 

The credit for residential owners is going to be phased out by 2022.

 

2019: 30%

2020: 26%

2021: 22%

2022: 0% (10% for commercial projects)

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

[Overland]

No, you can take the standard deduction.

[donthompson]

Overland: I sent a private message to you about this. Please let me know if my effort to message you was or wasn’t successful.

 

“I would suggest that you upgrade your battery monitor at the same time, since it’s more difficult to judge an LFP’s state of charge from voltage alone. A few of us have the Victron BMV, which are highly rated. If you get their Bluetooth version, then you won’t have to mount anything in the trailer. Simply secure the monitor in the hull and use their phone app.”

[Overland]

Don, no message yet.  I guess the messaging system still isn't working right.

[topgun2]

I know that Jason Walmsley was working on some upgrades, cleaning code, and generally trying to make the Forum faster this morning.  This work caused some Forum functions to temporally be suspended.  It is likely that at this time all functions should be back to normal.

 

Bill

[donthompson]

Just tried a message again.

 

 

Don

[Overland]

For Don -

 

[attachment file=Shunt Wiring.png]

 

Let me know if you got the PM I sent.

[UKULOLI]

Thanks for all the information!  Has anyone purchased Battle Born or other lithium batteries and installed in an existing LE2 battery tray? Do they work with the Oliver factory solar charging set up? If so, how many lithium batteries have you put in the battery tray? Do you have any pictures?  What were the biggest challenges?  We are in a 2017 LE2 and presently use theTrojan AGM batteries. We have the Xantrex Power inverter 2000w and the 320 watt factory installed solar panels.

Any input is appreciated!

[AndrewK]

I have installed two 100 amp hour Battle Born batteries in our Elite II.  The battery tray will handle three of the standard batteries and four of the vertical batteries.  The install of the batteries is simple and only requires a pair of cables to connect the batteries together.  The Zamp solar controller can be changed to Lithium for the appropriate charge profile.  You will need to change out your converter/charger to the Progressive Dynamics LiFePO4 model to provide the correct charging profile, when charging with AC. This is another simple direct replacement installation, with one screw and 5 wires.  The only other thing you will need is a battery monitor that measures amps used, as volts is not a appropriate measure of the state of charge for LiFePO4 batteries.  We could not be happier with the addition. 

If anyone is interested in any additional information or pictures, please Private Message me with you contact information.

Andrew

[Overland]

17 hours ago, UKULOLI said:

Thanks for all the information!  Has anyone purchased Battle Born or other lithium batteries and installed in an existing LE2 battery tray? Do they work with the Oliver factory solar charging set up? If so, how many lithium batteries have you put in the battery tray? Do you have any pictures?  What were the biggest challenges?  We are in a 2017 LE2 and presently use theTrojan AGM batteries. We have the Xantrex Power inverter 2000w and the 320 watt factory installed solar panels.

Any input is appreciated!

Like Andrew said, you can fit 4 BBs in the tray if you stand them on end.  They're a pain to wire up that way, but that's the only problem.  You can get the replacement converter section for the power center, and it will shorten your charge time plus probably (?) give you a more ideal charge curve, but before that module was available, BB used to say that it was no problem using the standard PD charger.  

Think hard before investing in them.  For those who need them, they're awesome; but in most cases for most owners, I'd argue that your money is more wisely spent elsewhere.