Anyone else watch the Tesla Cybertruck launch?

[SeaDawg]

3 hours ago, Overland said:

 

But as I’ve said before, I think that the eventual answer will be trailers that are either self powered or at least carry extra battery capacity that can be transferred to the truck.  A trailer that can not only push its own weight but also connect to the trucks traction control system to improve stability would be my dream.  So there’s your challenge, Oliver. 😛

Like   Dethleffs e.Home Coco concept trailer, shown last year in Dusseldorf. 

Just a concept for now, I think. But a slick idea.

https://gearjunkie.com/dethleffs-e-home-coco-rv-trailer-electric-motor

[John E Davies]

I hope folks dreaming of towing on long trips have considered that you most likely will have to find not only a Supercharger station that has an open stall, but ALSO one that has a secure area nearby that will allow you to disconnect and leave your Ollie for possibly a couple of hours..... Every station I have seen, which is admittedly a very small number, has been a drive straight in design, not pull-through. I doubt that this will be possible very often..., 

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1122487_towing-a-camper-with-a-tesla-model-x-thank-elon-for-superchargers

And it would rightfully piss off a lot of Tesla owners if you blocked two or three unused ones....  Has anyone ever seen a pull through?

This kind of extreme refueling/ range anxiety will not make for a relaxed vacation.....

John Davies

Spokane WA

Edited November 29, 2019 by John E Davies

[WhatDa]

Been "offline" as I started a new job.  But I did pre-order the cyber truck.  It's refundable so I can see how the details work out.

1) It's got a 6.5" bed with what looks to be an actual weather/dustproof design.

2) It's a hair shorter than an F150 with a 5.5" bed.

3) standard air suspension

4) Price parity with any of the big three trucks by the time you get them to adaptive cruise/blindspot/forward collision/ lane departure.  Lariat is 65k, Laramie is  61k, LTZ is 62k.  These will sell for less, but by the time you figure in the savings in fuel costs, they probably cost more than the 500 mile Tesla.

5) Convenience - it is a bit of a toss up, but if I have a 50A receptacle when I pull in for the night, that's 160 kWh that I could add overnight without having to make a fuel stop as either the first thing in the morning or last thing at night.  However, it means my midday stop for most days will be confined to where a supercharger is, and lunch will be whatever is close by.  It does mean for "travel" days we probably don't want  to boondock as ending or starting the day on the supercharger isn't ideal.  Where it wins is for my day to day life, it means never going to a gas station.

6) it says it's coming with a 240v receptacle and a 120v.   If the amperage is higher on these (it sounds like it might be), then I just got a nice power bank for my trailer.    Like enough to run the AC for a couple/few weeks.  It will also have an option for its own solar that is capable of ~15 miles/day of charging

7) even if Rivian or Ford come out with an electric truck that matches this in every way, the Electrify America/non-tesla network of fast chargers just sucks right now.  I'm hoping that this works well with towing with the existing supercharger network as well as the buildout tesla is doing for the tesla semi. 

8 )  Tesla is the only manufacturer that has made their cars better over time.  My FoMoCo product is pretty much the same as when it was released with only a few buggy updates.  The maps refuse to update (which required going to a website, formatting a USB properly, copying files over, renaming a .tar.gz file to get it to copy, and then still failed).  In the meantime, Tesla dropped dog mode (keeps doggo cool in the car while you go shopping), sentry mode (records action around the car using the 360 camera), dashcam mode (duplicates having a gopro front and rear (and then updated it to include sides too)), upgraded charging to 250kW, Navigate on Auto Pilot (car chooses proper lanes and handles interchanges), and a bunch of other features.  Lincoln came out with the Nautilus that supports lane centering (enhanced lane keep assist), but not even the 2020 Navigator supports it. 

What remains to be seen is how well this is adapted to towing (anti-sway/reversing/does blind spot cover the trailer/etc..).  How they expand/improve their superchargers for charging.  

The looks don't really strike my fancy, but the same goes for about all new trucks sold.   At least this one doesn't come with watercolor paint that will die at the first blackberry bush/branch/fingernail it meets.

In the end, if it doesn't work out -- I will get my $100 back.

 

 

[SeaDawg]

To anser John's question about pull throughs, I've only seen one that might work, in the Victor NY mall. A lane by the last stall could possibly allow you to charge, without taking up other spaces. Or machinations of dropping the trailer. Or doing a right angle to charge the truck, end spot, trailer attached, blocking no one, at one if the newer stations with power posts out front. Then again, I've only seen 20 charger stations, or so.

The newer stations I've seen at Wawa gas stations all have an end charger, with the power post out in front, instead of the usual backin, where you could likely charge without dropping the trailer. Might be an awkward position, but it could work. I think. 

Some of the older stations near us would be awkward. Particularly,  Savannah airport. But with good range, maybe I could skip it, or charge in jax, from Ocala, going on to Kingsland, Ga . Not familiar with Jacksonville,  haven't personally seen it. But probably will by the time my truck is ready.

As far as security,  most of the Superchargers are at well lit malls, hotel lots, and in my area, popping up at 24 hr wawa gas stations. The Kingsland station is at the welcome center, and shares the lot with the police station. I certainly feel secure, there.

The downside to traveling at night,  as we often do, is no services at malls. The upside is, there's usually a whole row of empty chargers. Sarasota supercharger has over twenty stations. At a mall.  Not much open after 9, but there is a gas station in walking distance. 

It's a learning curve. For sure.

And whatda, i totally agree on fuel cost savings.

[BackofBeyond]

While it is an interesting concept, discussions on the Tesla certainly brings out ideas that I find just not inline with how we use our Ollie, or travel about. Some of the strong opinions, just don't ring true either. 

For the vast majority of our exploring, fuel stations can be scarce, let alone charging stations. I didn't buy and outfit our Oliver to stay connected or within earshot of civilization. For those that rarely venture out into the wilderness, fine, a Tesla truck may work just fine, not in our case. I eschew planning, and having to travel based upon availability of a charge stations, locations, and range would absolutely ruin our experience.

Never having to go to a gas station - off set by sitting around waiting for a charge, after you've spent how much time looking for a charge station??? Seems wrong to me.  As JD stated- "This kind of extreme refueling/ range anxiety will not make for a relaxed vacation..... "

To each his own,  but until the infrastructure reaches outer back of beyond, I keep my dino powered TV.  I am pretty sure I will have turned to dust before this happens....

RB

 

 

 

[WhatDa]

My needs would be different if we weren't still working.  Our trips are usually less than 300 miles total range this year (ie quick weekend getaway), but we live 10 miles away from the start of an obscene amount of national forest service land in the Cascades.  Each of the "gateways" that lead into the Cascades either already have a supercharger or will by next year.

Our week-long off-grid trips are either covered or will be covered by superchargers by next year - for example: Glacier (Kalispell and Shelby), Teton/Yellowstone (Cody, West Yellowstone, Jackson), Yosemite (Groveland, Fish Camp, Mammoth Lakes), Arches/Moab (Moab has its own supercharger), etc...   The nice thing about Tesla is it can figure out the supercharging stops for you, all you need to do is input where you want to go and navigation is handled for you.  It will be interesting to see how they account for towing though.  It even knows you are getting close to the charger, so it conditions the battery for optimal charging.

If there isn't a supercharger close enough to meet our needs in and out, then we'll have to rough it and spend a night in a campground the first night of the trip.  If that doesn't work we can evaluate going trailerless with the 500+ mile range and sleeping in the back (6'5" bed for the win), or just renting from Enterprise Trucks and rolling coal.  

Then to put it all in perspective: for us the week-long trips are about 4x a year, weekend trips 1-2x a month, but commuting is a ~200x a year thing now.  So while I am definitely making some concessions vs my ecoboost setup or a Duramax, the net win for commuting pays off for me -- but probably doesn't for many.  

Finally, the driving experience of electrics: no shifting, nearly limitless engine braking, great low-speed torque/control, and despite all the doodads and geegaws described above, the overall package is LESS complex than a modern gas/diesel.

Closing anecdote: The AGM upgrade for the Oliver costs $1200.  The Tesla with approximately 200x the useable capacity costs $70,000.   That's getting the batteries at 70% off with a free truck 🙂

 

[topgun2]

44 minutes ago, WhatDa said:

 

Closing anecdote: The AGM upgrade for the Oliver costs $1200.  The Tesla with approximately 200x the useable capacity costs $70,000.   That's getting the batteries at 70% off with a free truck 🙂

 

[SeaDawg]

Backof beyond, I can certainly understand that opinion. The plains and lightly populated areas of the west, especially,  are currently bereft of charging capability.

Where I live, and places we often travel to, are really not that much of a challenge. 

Since we will likely remain a two tow vehicle family, we have the option of the dino fuel.  Also,  for what it's worth, heres a 2014 map of Tesla superchargers.  Followed by a 2019.

Red is active, grey is in development.

Five years ago, I might also have thought it would be impossible to drive across the country in an electric car, much less camp with an electric pickup. Now, I  know it will be possible,  in many instances,  before either of us are dust. Elon put his money where his mouth is. To benefit many.

 

 

Edited December 1, 2019 by SeaDawg

[SeaDawg]

This was 2014

[SeaDawg]

2019

 

[ScubaRx]

On 11/26/2019 at 2:56 PM, Ken_Judy said:

...Since the Tesla was only one year old, she had just agreed to trade it in on a GMC 2500 Duramax and it was just about an even trade.  She was very happy.  

 

Good choice and to her advantage.

[ScubaRx]

On 11/28/2019 at 9:54 AM, Overland said:

...I think that the eventual answer will be trailers that are either self powered or at least carry extra battery capacity that can be transferred to the truck.  A trailer that can not only push its own weight but also connect to the trucks traction control system to improve stability would be my dream.  So there’s your challenge, Oliver. 😛

Can you say M-O-T-O-R-H-O-M-E?  😎

[Overland]

1 hour ago, ScubaRx said:

Can you say M-O-T-O-R-H-O-M-E?  😎

🤔😂

[WhatDa]

With a 6'5" bed and decent real payload, the biggest thing holding the Tesla Truck from camper greatness is the C-pillar extending so far back.  As a chassis, it'd make an interesting class b/c motorhome.

[BackofBeyond]

12 hours ago, WhatDa said:

With a 6'5" bed and decent real payload, the biggest thing holding the Tesla Truck from camper greatness is the C-pillar extending so far back.  As a chassis, it'd make an interesting class b/c motorhome.

 

14 hours ago, SeaDawg said:

2019

 

All I can figure is I am just different - by a wide margin:  Given the current map, I might as well just stay home. Double it in 5 years - same.  How do you deal with the back roads,  like the back side of My St Helens, heading to Rainier, up the Stewart-Cassiar Highway  BC, or the backside of Telluride, been to  or,,,, to any other path that is "less traveled"  - you don't. 

And if I'm gonna stay in the bed of my truck, --  same.  I still have all my great camping/backpacking gear- lots cheaper than my Oliver, and I can go - anywhere I want - well it will be me and the dog.... but that's another issue. 

The best thing about the Tesla - it is a look at what may be possible - currently you can't take it anywhere worth going--- in my world. 

I fully understand the gleeful appeal of the Tesla, but as an RV appliance, it is very restrictive. "Oh - I can go across country from supercharger to charger" - great, why would you want to, other than to make a statement. An app that tells you where to get a charge - half the time I don't get a cell signal, let alone data service. How many RV sized supercharger stations are out there :  to some one else's point. 

I think the difference is - some people like to RV in town,  close to all the comforts of home, and some like to get away a bit, and RV in more remote locations, and some, like me, bought an Oliver, because their spouse had grown weary of camping/backcountry camping in less than opulence and comfort. The Oliver is a great basecamp, I can still go to most places I desire, (or close by)  without a lot of planning and reservations, or pain, and it keeps me married, and honestly, I like it also. 

But to say it is - today- an alternative for a RV TV, is just - well - early. Ok - I think its stupid - for my RV applications, and for the vast majority of those who venture away from civilization. I do not want to plan around where I can get a charge for my TV. For others - have at it. Less congestion in the back country. 

Pooh Pooh me, as you have others, we all have opinions, some more practical than others. 

Perhaps - I have the wrong definition of what RV means.. that would make all the difference here. 

Have fun out there.

[SeaDawg]

Frankly, backofbeyond, I think your existing rig is perfect for your camping style. And, as I said before, I  completely understand your opinion.

 The Tesla may be just as perfect for others, especially those who use the truck as a daily driver vehicle,  and work truck, (like me) and want a capable tv for certain places and distances.  We've all got a long wait to see how the Cybertruck towing range works out. I'm certainly hoping it's better than the model x, and it should be.

I'm also thinking especially of a young couple I know, who wanted to buy an ev as their second car.  They bought a half ton pickup, instead,  to be able to tow their camper 50 to 150 miles, as often as possible,  on weekend trips to state parks, to introduce their young kids to camping.  They're working, so most camping trips are close to home, and limited to time off. Still, it's great that the little kids get to experience camping, and go on hikes, enjoy the great outdoors, and help mom and dad get a camping Thanksgiving dinner ready, without video games and xboxes.  Proposed specs of even the middle Tesla truck would suit them fine, probably. We'll see.

I'm personally truly amazed at the advances in charging capabilities,  vehicle range, and electric motor efficiencies in the last decade. Extended range and higher motor efficiencies will be the key to many needs, perhaps even yours, someday. And, I  do think ( and hope) "someday" will be in our lifetimes, if the technology continues to advance as rapidly as it has. Not "poo pooing" here, though I  could be pipe dreaming.

When I  first test drove an ev that was actually available in Florida,  it was a first gen Nissan Leaf. I  couldn't wrap my head around a car that I  couldn't drive to the airport and back without range anxiety,  and, as much as I wanted an ev, I decided to wait. I  still wouldn't want a leaf, even though the range is over 3 times the original 70 some miles, for other reasons. Mainly because I really like driving trucks and suvs.  I like sitting up high, I  like the power, I  like to be able to tow something,  even if it's just a boat to the ramp, or a small camper to North Carolina. 

Everyone has different ideas, opinions, needs and plans. It would be a really boring world if we all thought the same, wouldn't it?

I finally finished the Christmas tree, so I am late in responding. 

Peace on earth. 

Sherry 

[Overland]

6 hours ago, BackofBeyond said:

All I can figure is I am just different...Pooh Pooh me, as you have others, we all have opinions, some more practical than others. 

Everyone is different.  We have people here with a wide range of travel styles, means, risk aversion, etc.  

The arguments that you've made are really the same ones that people have made at all stages of EV development.  At first it was "these are fine for commuting to work, but not for me...", then "these are O.K. for some highway trips, but not for me...", then "these work for most highway trips, but you couldn't go cross country...", then "sure you could go cross country, but only on certain routes...", then "I found this trip here that you couldn't do...".  And on it goes.  At each stage, the criticism gets narrowed down a bit more.  Now we're at the point of how far can you tow a 6,000lb trailer.  

And that's fine.  Those criticisms are all 100% valid.  If your trips don't fall into the categories where an EV works, towing or not, then it would be dumb of you to get one.  It's also perfectly valid to question the cost, build quality, manufacturing issues, charger availability, aesthetic appeal, etc.

But...but...you have to respect that there are other intelligent, logical people who, at each stage of EV development, have looked at the limits of EV's, looked at the cost, looked at the risks, and said "hey, that actually works for me".  Making that decision doesn't mean that they're blinded to the limits that you see - it just means that those limits don't impact them as much as they would you.  I'm sure you could find a percentage of those people who underestimated their needs; but for the most part, EV buyers seem genuinely happy with their purchase. It would be silly to assume that those people are just in denial about their suffering.  At this point, it would be silly to assume that anyone who buys an EV isn't well aware of the ever-narrowing set of limitations and risks.

In this particular case, no one has even come close to saying that an EV truck would work for everyone.  But we do have individuals who have looked at this truck and the trips that they make and decided that for them, or for people like them, the benefits might outweigh the limits.  On the other hand, we also have those who want to say that since an EV doesn't work for them, then they clearly won't work for anyone - and anyone who thinks otherwise obviously just hasn't had it splained to them.  

No one is going to pooh pooh your choice, but if anyone fails to respect other people's choices - like making the assumption that those buyers are only buying an EV to make a statement, or that they aren't being practical, or are outright stupid - then I suspect they might get pooh poohed for that.  

Edited December 1, 2019 by Overland

[SeaDawg]

Thanks for that, Overland.  I am sure the Cybertruck can work for me. Not necessarily for everyone,  but for me:

I can power it for free, or very little, on my home solar, for daily driving. Big bonus, there. I'd rather charge my truck, than give my excess power back to Duke Powe  for cents on the dollar.

I can supercharge at many places, along my accustomed routes, for a reasonable price. Far less than gas, even at today's low prices. Per mile. Even towing, figuring the dismal x results of 50 to 60 per cent of range. I'm sure, with the capacity of the truck, the range will be better, towing, than the model x , where even my little 2008 elite I behind an x approaches max.

Elon Musk thought his design would be polarizing.  I  didn't think it would polarize our little tight knit group. Sorry for that, but I'm a renewable energy enthusiast,  and an ev enthusiast.

Sidebar: my great grandfather in southern Minnesota was a trailblazer, probably one of those guys others called crazy. He adored my tiny little Czech  great grandmother, Fanny.  Back in the day, there were no plans to electrify the farming township, so he built his own generator and battery house system,  and he had the first electric house in the entire farming township, for Gg Fanny.  (According to my dad.) Even after the REC brought electricity to the rural area, Great Grampa kept their lights on with his separate system,  for another several years. Dad said it was because the house was wired for DC. I don't know for sure, as I  never remember  meeting them., even though they lived good long lives. Great grampa died when I was 3 , Fanny a few years later.

Probably true. Great grampa also invented a chain drive gutter cleaning system for the dairy barns. Awesome for my dad. Mucking stalls was never a favorite job of his.

Great grampa's  partial fail? First guy in the community with an automobile to go to town, mostly to church. In the spring rains, the road out was a muddy mess, so gg Robert  had to harness the horses to the Ford, and they dragged the car out. Small price to pay, dad said, for the great difference in other seasons.

We all have differences,  and different tolerances. I totally get that.

I like to think that I'm channeling maybe a little bit of great grampa Robert. And, my dad, who drew outlines of regenerative braking, when I was young. Before dad's death, we had so many interesting conversations on evs.  I  wish he could see today's vehicles.  He'd love the advances.

Sherry 

Ps, yesterday my dad's birthday. This is all very meaningful to me.

 

Edited December 1, 2019 by SeaDawg

[Mike and Carol]

I like the tension in this thread.  Good thoughts on both sides.  I also like what Tesla is doing.  I have a Tesla dealer in the neighborhood and see lots of them on the road.  A Tesla truck is appealing.  Electric vehicles have impressive performance.  I am a long time Audi owner and now have an Audi S3, so I also follow what Audi is doing with their e-tron, looks impressive.

But, for towing my Oliver I need fueling flexibility.  Some of the places we’ve camped were literally in the middle of nowhere and I was thankful for a small rural gas pump.  I don’t want to have to change my travel plans to find a charging station.  I will buy an new truck after the new year and it will be traditional. Maybe when it’s time to replace it there will be enough electric vehicle infrastructure to make an electric pickup an option.  Mike

[SeaDawg]

That's true, Mike.

I was recently looking back at old Texas Tesla owners' posts from five years ago. Texas was then described as "an island." In those days, you could  drive in, and to and from, the population centers of Texas, but states east and west were bereft of chargers. You couldn't get from Houston to Panama City, without issues.

Times have changed. Now,  Texas is a leader in renewable power, even with the major oil and gas companies headquartered there. Texas has an independent grid that should be a source of pride to all of you. And the Tesla supercharger grid can get you easily to Florida,  or anywhere else east or west. on the interstate. 

Honestly,  I  don't think any of us want a lot of charging stations, disguised as cactus or trees, like some cell towers, in the middle of nowhere. Til battery capacity/ increased motor efficiency/ range allow us to go rogue, there will still be a need for ICE vehicles and jerry cans, for many people. 

In the meantime,  I'll leave room for you guys at the gas pump, with my daily driver/ interstate/ some intersecting byways Tesla  truck. and you guys can leave space for me at the superchargers.

  Fair?

Sherry 

 

[BackofBeyond]

15 hours ago, Mike and Carol said:

I like the tension in this thread.  Good thoughts on both sides.  I also like what Tesla is doing. 

As do I - 

 

17 hours ago, Overland said:

But...but...you have to respect that there are other intelligent, logical people who, at each stage of EV development, have looked at the limits of EV's, looked at the cost, looked at the risks, and said "hey, that actually works for me".  

 

As someone that actually built EV trucks (Commercially) - back when all we had were lead acid storage - I've nothing but respect for advancing the cause - and nowhere in my post did I mean to imply disrespect - in fact I said for me it would be stupid. But - If it seemed so, I apologize. 

Were Elon to design a truck platform that would work for me, that would be fine - but what has been presented is just not it.  

16 hours ago, SeaDawg said:

Elon Musk thought his design would be polarizing.  I  didn't think it would polarize our little tight knit group. Sorry for that, but I'm a renewable energy enthusiast,  and an ev enthusiast.

I don't see it as polarizing - simply a randy discussion of ideas and opinions. I'm not a luddite by any means - I was - attempting to use tech to do things way before it was feasible - try getting a commodore 64 to do some system control over the land lines -  long before there was a WWW.  

SO moving on, I look forward to EV advancement, new storage platforms, reducing carbon use, (which means re investing in modern Nuclear) and perhaps a little more truth in advertising by the media. One can hope. 

RB

[bugeyedriver]

While this has surely been a dynamic discussion, it might be a good time for us all to refresh ourselves on the Forum Guidelines.

Welcome to the Oliver Forum, a great place for Oliver Travel Trailer owners and future owners to interact, share knowledge, solve problems, and most importantly, to develop friendships. Respectful and considerate responses help build this community.

You’ll find a wealth of experiences here, and many owners willing to share their experiences. Have fun, but please keep others’ viewpoints in mind. Respectfully state your point, share your information, or ask your question. Keep it casual and friendly. Reread your post before you hit submit. Is it helpful? Thoughtful?

Sometimes, communications here may be misinterpreted, because the written word just doesn’t carry the visual clues of face to face conversations. Should you believe a post is a little ill-mannered, consider the poster might be trying to be helpful, but isn’t able to put his or her words together the way you might. Forums work best when our skin tends to be a bit on the thicker side.

 

Keep having fun out there, enjoying your Ollies to the max !

 

Edited December 2, 2019 by bugeyedriver

[Landrover]

Has anyone looked at the Atlas Pickup?

[bugeyedriver]

It looks very interesting, and will likely have many of the same issues as the Tesla truck, or other EV trucks that come along.  

Discuss away, and don't forget the Forum Guidelines as many of us grab bags of popcorn to munch on as we enjoy the spirited discussions.

Keep it friendly folks.  

Edited December 3, 2019 by bugeyedriver

[John E Davies]

3 hours ago, Landrover said:

Has anyone looked at the Atlas Pickup?

The Atlis (spelled with an "i") looks very cool, but as with so many startups looking for investors, we see many glowing promises and apparently wild claims, like a 15 minute charge time. How many of these will prove to be realistic? The specs do look pretty amazing....

https://www.atlismotorvehicles.com/xp-platform

John Davies

Spokane WA