Winter Temps and pipe freezing

[Steve Morris]

13 minutes ago, rich.dev said:

@Overland Do you maybe have a link to this mod? 

I happened to have this in my watched topics for when I do the separate shower valve.

[rich.dev]

Thanks @Steve Morris,found that one already, the mod from @Overland I'm looking for is where he moved the plumbing out of the basement and relocated it under the floor behind the grey water tank. I searched the forum but no luck yet!

[topgun2]

If it helps you any -

I just reviewed the first 20 pages of Overland's posts/threads and didn't find any reference to what you are looking for.  I've got to run right now or I'd keep looking for you  -  Sorry.

Bill

[rich.dev]

49 minutes ago, topgun2 said:

If it helps you any -

I just reviewed the first 20 pages of Overland's posts/threads and didn't find any reference to what you are looking for.  I've got to run right now or I'd keep looking for you  -  Sorry.

Bill

Thanks Bill, so did I! I sent him a PM and will advise when I get a response.

[topgun2]

1 hour ago, rich.dev said:

Thanks Bill, so did I! I sent him a PM and will advise when I get a response.

Unfortunately Overland doesn't interact here on the Forum much (if any).  Hopefully he will reply to you.

If not - simply left click on his avatar and then left click on "See Their Activity".  I started at page #1 and went through page #20.

Bill

[rich.dev]

I received a response from Overland, he did not get around to doing a separate thread on moving the plumbing out of the basement and relocate it under the floor behind the grey water tank, just the pics in this thread.

He does remember that there was a thread about adding access hatches, and it's likely that some of the photos of his plumbing reroute ended up there since that was a large part of the project.  

So now I'll have to search for a thread about "adding access hatches"

@topgun2 is there a way to search for posts by user/user name, i.e. I want to search "adding access hatches" posted by "Overland"?

Something like this forum search

[SeaDawg]

https://olivertraveltrailers.com/forums/search/?&q=Access&author=Overland&search_and_or=or

You can add or subtract key words. 

[Geronimo John]

On 10/23/2020 at 2:12 PM, SeaDawg said:

If it's in the 20s or low 30s when we go to bed, I usually  open the bathroom door, and open the  lower drawer a bit. So far, so good. 

Question:  Would opening the "Optional" hatch into the rear basement storage area help keep the outside shower/city & fresh water ports from freezing in extreme temperatures? 

GJ 

[Geronimo John]

On 11/29/2020 at 6:59 AM, theOrca said:

I cannot see any way to get more reflectix between the two water lines and the lower hull on the drivers side... (Bummer!)

Spray Foam it.

GJ

[Rivernerd]

4 minutes ago, Geronimo John said:

Spray Foam it.

But, be really careful using "Great Stuff" standard expanding foam to avoid overfilling the cavity.  You could bow out the fiberglass hull if overfilled, which, given the degree to which the foam expands, could be as little as 50% full before expansion.

A safer, but in my experience less durable, option is minimally expanding foam.

[Liana]

22 minutes ago, Geronimo John said:

Question:  Would opening the "Optional" hatch into the rear basement storage area help keep the outside shower/city & fresh water ports from freezing in extreme temperatures? 

GJ 

I have a corollary question:  We've had several nites of single digit temps, I've done no mods other than empty the outdoor shower hose and add a layer of foam inside the door over the valve handles (further, would not have the capacity or wherewithal to do some of the amazing stuff above).  I've left the lav door open because I know that space gets SUPER cold if you don't.  The (standard) toilet supply line seems like it might be frozen, no water refills it when opening the valve to empty the bowl.  The sink valve works fine.  I've never had that happen before, anyone else (with standard toilets, obv the composters need not reply)?

So, now I have the access hatch on the forward street side cabinet propped open hoping to warm that side of the trailer.  Forward street side corner of the lav is most definitely the weakest part of this system!  I have an electric heater (am hooked to shore power) so thinking I will put it in the lav and shut the door.

 

OTOH, my brother is trying to be in his 3 season trailer in these temps and is having NOTHING but trouble, so I remain appreciative of the *relatively* headache free winter camping

[Rivernerd]

8 minutes ago, Liana said:

I have an electric heater (am hooked to shore power) so thinking I will put it in the lav and shut the door.

Good idea.  Not good to leave the toilet supply line frozen; even though Pex is quite flexible, it can still break when stressed too much.

And, you might consider leaving the bath door open with the space heater on the floor pointing toward the toilet supply line.  That reduces the risk of overheating that small bath area, and also allows cabin air warmed by you furnace to help with defrost the toilet supply line.

[Liana]

Just now, Rivernerd said:

you might consider leaving the bath door open with the space heater on the floor pointing toward the toilet supply line.

Thanks, good idea.  I've never done that because I sure want that furnace running during the nite and I thought if the electric heater kept the rest of the cabin warm, furnace would not kick on.

[Geronimo John]

One approach to moving air, as the above dozens of posts have discussed, is to duct it. Another way is to not duct it and use pressure differentials to move the air.  SO, if you are not a "ductor", think about this concept:

The basement is sort of a sealed compartment.  With a little bit of effort it could become closer to being one.  Then add a computer fan at the curb side under bed bulkhead to slightly pressurize the basement area with warmer air.  To get this warmer air to the shower/fresh/city port areas, you'll need to open up a passage way between them and the basement and a vent to the street side under bed area.

Hypothetically, at this point convectional air movement (Warm air rises, cool air falls) may be enough to freeze proof the area.  If not, add a second 2 watt mini fan.  Worst case is you will be pulling about 4 watts of power (two fans) vs. 300 watts of electrical resistance heating.  

GJ

[Rivernerd]

3 hours ago, Liana said:

I sure want that furnace running during the nite and I thought if the electric heater kept the rest of the cabin warm, furnace would not kick on.

Then increase the furnace temperature set point, i.e., if you usually set it at 70 degrees F, increase that temp setting to 75 degrees F.  Keep changing, if necessary, until the cabin is comfortable and the toilet supply line remains unfrozen.

[John E Davies]

Liana, you REALLY need to add some additional insulation under the bath vanity to reduce the intense cold for your plumbing there. Your flush toilet water line originates there! My hull 218 had no insulation whatsoever at much of the upper front wall, which is directly exposed to the outside by way of the propane compartment... This kind of mod is not at all difficult, if you aren’t modifying the lines themselves. The standard bubble foil insulation has a very small R Value of 1, compared to R5 for the 1” foamboard, a big, big difference! The board is $20 for a 4’x8’ sheet at the box store.

https://olivertraveltrailers.com/forums/topic/9039-how-to-bath-sink-compartment-mods-duct-rework-insulation-disconnect-flush-line/

Modifying the heat duct there under the bath sink for some extra airflow is also fairly simply, add an adjustable steel elbow after removing all the excess flex ducting (mine had an additional 48”!) and remove the plastic diffuser plate at the opening. Voila, a much toastier toilet seat and also a warmer wall near that pesky water flush valve…  the air flows around the back of the toilet.

You HAVE to get extra warm airflow through all the dead end compartments, this means opening existing hatches or doors, or adding more fixed ones (such as inexpensive round 4” heater vents) . The standard Ollie design is very marginal, and a little disappointing for a trailer advertised as “Four Season”.

FYI the PEX plastic lines will tolerate freezing to a degree, but the brass fittings and the steel valve may split wide open. If you can’t correct this issue, you must winterize the system.

John Davies

Spokane WA

 

[John E Davies]

FYI, a very simple way to keep from freezing your feet and elbows.

 

https://olivertraveltrailers.com/forums/topic/9166-how-to-add-extra-thermal-insulation-and-foam-padding-around-the-twin-beds/

John Davies

Spokane WA

[Liana]

1 hour ago, John E Davies said:

You HAVE to get extra warm airflow through all the dead end compartments

I did open the forward dinette hatch and put an electric heater in the lav, all seems well.  

[John E Davies]

13 minutes ago, Liana said:

I did open the forward dinette hatch and put an electric heater in the lav, all seems well.  

The problem is “What If” - you should consider the worst case scenario, when you get a shore power failure, or your heater fails, or you run out of propane, then your band-aid solution won’t work, and you might discover that it is too late to winterize. If there is a sudden arctic blast, it becomes literally impossible to drain the tanks because the drain lines and valves are frozen solid…. It can cause seriously expensive damage to your tanks and hull structure. Fix the problem, add insulation and airflow, don’t just correct the symptoms.

Are you full timing, and what is your location? Single digit temps this early in the season (not even Winter!) implies far north. Please add some info to your signature.

John Davies

Spokane WA

[Ollie-Haus]

We hit 17 deg f. last night in central Indiana, with a high of 26 today. Checked the sensors in the Oliver on my phone and cabin was 63 with the space heater working fine. Glad I winterized because both basement spaces were reading in low 20s this morning.

Before we winter camp with water in the systems I will install provisions for circulating warm air through these critical areas and set the sensors up to notify me when they hit the 40 deg mark. Without the furnace heating the cabin we have no heat being produced in the basement spaces.

But in case of a failure you still have to have a plan. At the very least we would want to have time to drain and pump some anti-freeze through the system. I think a decent amount of addition insulation in key areas will be a summer project next year, followed by an air circulation system to draw cabin air into critical spaces. I do love the Yolink monitors we installed in various locations. It's nice to be able to monitor temps inside and out in a moments notice from anywhere.