Interior Belly Band Sadness

[GAP]

The belly band in the rear of our E2 that wraps from the galley to the pantry, over the twin beds, started to come off.  The adhesive tape is intact so my guess is that the gel coat surface was not prepped well.  I decided to remove the band to clean it up and prep for reinstall.  I'm looking for input on how to remove the two 3M lines of tape that held the band in place.  They are stuck on the vinyl and are too sticky to peel off.  Have tried using a razor blade and putty knife, have put it in the fridge to help firm up the tape and also tried a heat gun hoping to soften enough to slide off.  Neither Goof Off or alcohol would loosen it either.  Any ideas?

[John E Davies]

You haven’t got aggressive enough, by design it is really tough to remove. You need to abrade it with a sandpaper wheel or use a nasty solvent like MEK, but (straight) that will attack the plastic. I have had good luck with a brand new plastic scraper blade and 3M Adhesive Cleaner. It has a little MEK inside and works, but won’t hurt anything except your lungs, use with gloves in a ventilated area. It is my go-to cleaner, body shop use it for paint prep.

https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/66962O/3mtm-vhbtm-tape-disassembly-tech-bulletin.pdf

FYI if you live near a city you can buy the cleaner at any auto body paint supply store for about $15.

John Davies

Spokane WA

[routlaw]

Ours also came off, same place, or rather was mostly off and I completed the task. Personally I don't care for the aesthetics of the chrome trim anyway but have not decided what to install in its place, so for now I have simply left it off with the seam and drilled holes showing. FWIW there was very little glue left and only at the two corners. 

[rideandfly]

Ours came loose on the curbside.

Going to reattach the band using Gorilla Super Glue Double Sided Tape this week, one strip of double sided tape under each adhesive strip on the chrome band (between original band adhesive & hull) with the Gorilla tape under the chrome strip.

Available at WalMart:

 

[GAP]

22 hours ago, John E Davies said:

You haven’t got aggressive enough, by design it is really tough to remove. You need to abrade it with a sandpaper wheel or use a nasty solvent like MEK, but (straight) that will attack the plastic. I have had good luck with a brand new plastic scraper blade and 3M Adhesive Cleaner. It has a little MEK inside and works, but won’t hurt anything except your lungs, use with gloves in a ventilated area. It is my go-to cleaner, body shop use it for paint prep.

https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/66962O/3mtm-vhbtm-tape-disassembly-tech-bulletin.pdf

FYI if you live near a city you can buy the cleaner at any auto body paint supply store for about $15.

John Davies

Spokane WA

Sounds like really good ideas John.  As far as the sandpaper wheel goes, would that work with truly gummy tape?  Not sure if Oliver always uses the same product but the tape left on the band is super gummy 

[Patriot]

20 hours ago, rideandfly said:

Ours came loose on the curbside.

Going to reattach the band using Gorilla Super Glue Double Sided Tape this week, one strip of double sided tape under each adhesive strip on the chrome band (between original band adhesive & hull) with the Gorilla tape overlapping under the chrome strip.

Available at WalMart:

 

@rideandfly Yes! this worked really well where we had a little area of the belly band lift. No issues since! 👍🏻👍🏻

 

[rideandfly]

Previously installed a little Gorilla double sided tape on fiberglass where belly band is installed. When initially applied it can be removed in one piece, but if left for 24 hours difficult to remove, but removable with elbow grease, alcohol, and wood scraper made out of paint stir sticks with sharp edges on ends ground with belt sander.

Tested a Dremel tool with wire brush attachment on a small section of belly band adhesive to rough up the old adhesive and it worked OK. Guess if you wanted to remove original adhesive stips, it can be done with a more aggressive Dremel attachment.

Decided to install Gorilla double sided tape directly over existing adhesive on the belly band without roughing up or removing old belly band adhesive. Let setup for 24 hours before re-installing band, left white backing material on clear double sided tape until installation.

Applied pressure rubbing over complete belly band where re-attached with microfiber cloth at least 10 times.

 

EDIT: The Gorillia Super Glue double sided tape did not adhere in the corner where attached to fiberglass after several days. Cannot recommend it.

[GAP]

On 5/29/2023 at 10:13 AM, Patriot said:

@rideandfly Yes! this worked really well where we had a little area of the belly band lift. No issues since! 👍🏻👍🏻

 

Good suggestions on how to apply tape over pre-existing tape.  We preferred to start clean as we have a dog who has black hair and were concerned that two layers of foam tape would allow enough of a slot for har to collect, sticking to the tape edges.  Tried acetone, paint scraper and elbow grease which worked but was super labor intensive and would have taken hours.  John's suggestion above to use adhesive cleaner would have probably been more efficient.  In the end, we did the entire job with a belt sander with 80 grit paper.  The best technique we came up with was to put the vinyl band face down on a towel and start at one end working towards the other.  Held the sander at an angle with the "fresh tape" leading edge lifted slightly.  This would heat up and push the gumpy residue towards the direction of travel.  When enough of a sludge line was formed, would "jelly roll" the sticky material with finger tips and remove.  Was able to do about a foot at a time.  Blunt force instrument but did a great job.  Cleaned the edges (which are translucent) and prepped the surface with acetone.  Will reapply using two 1/2" strips of 3m double sided tape, leaving the paper on the outside of the tape which can be slid back as we go when reapplying.  Had we known about the Gorilla tape, would have used that but had already ordered the 3m stuff which, for better or worse, was what Oliver used on the original job.  Spoke to someone in the shop there who thought it was likely that the surface had not been properly cleaned before original application.  Will prep the surface on the trailer with denatured alcohol before reapplying - then cross our fingers.  

[Ralph Mawyer]

I ran into this a year or so ago, post on here somewhere.  I gave up trying to get the old strips off and just added 3M double-sided down the middle.  Worked reasonably well, but started to droop at corner again.

I'd be tempted to just get new strips from Oliver, and likely add a mid-strip again, before putting it all back on.  Cleaning the fiberglass with solvent would likely be good prep insurance.

I think I just tended to lean against the strip. slowing pushing it down...then off.

[Steph and Dud B]

Ours fell off streetside. It was still under warranty and OTT struck it back on but they didn't do a great job. There's some gaps and they didn't replace the caulking that originally helped secure the end. I expect it will fall off again. 😕

[Citrus breeze]

I reapplied the band using double sided industrial strength tape.  Unfortunately, it's thickness left a gap between hull and band.  Complained to Oliver, and they sent me another band.  I just had the E2 serviced this spring, and had them replace the old band with the new band.  

Just checked again, and the newly applied band is off the hull!  Man...For the price of this unit, this should not be happening.

 

 

[SeaDawg]

I think it's all in the prep. 

Our original belly bands, except the bath, are still on place. That one fell off a few years ago. Paul cleaned off the original tape, and we used new vhb . It "ok", but lifting at the far edges, a bit. That's a bunch of curve, on a short space, so somewhat understandable,  even though we cleaned the heck out of the surface, and held the newly applied band in place with tape.

I'd guess it's a problem with Oliver's prep (cleaning mold release etc), or, a bad batch of banding, with inferior vhb tape. Or, a combo of both. 

[DavePhelps]

Some time ago, this was discussed in detail but alas, the forum search function is still not all that functional....
The belly band came off in our bathroom a few years back and I reattached it as described below with no further issue.

Good prep/cleaning is vital for good adhesion. Depending on what cleaning products have been used by owners on their interior, there may be silicone and/or waxes present on the gelcoat. From the factory, there could be other contaminants. After removing the loose band, I cleaned the area with MEK and a white scotchbrite pad, then gave a final wipe with more MEK and a microfiber towel. There are lots of ways to go about cleaning, but it will require a solvent based cleaner like MEK or the 3M cleaner John Davies showed above, or something similar that leaves no residue, and thoroughly clean off any contaminants. For the tape, I used 3M Super Strength Molding Tape:
https://www.amazon.com/Super-Strength-Molding-Tape-03614/dp/B002JOVUO0/ref=sr_1_1?crid=QB28U5VAKS9&keywords=3m+03614&qid=1687388031&sprefix=3m+03614%2Caps%2C165&sr=8-1

I did not remove the old tape, but did "clean" it with a few wipes of MEK. The tape is only .043" thick (1/32+) and I did not notice it made the band stick out or create a space between the hull and the back of the band. IIRC, the band is slightly concave in the back so that helps. The tape is 1/2" wide and I ran a strip along the top and bottom of the band (like it was done from the factory). Before sticking the band to the wall however, there is an important step not to be missed, and that is to first wipe down the contact area of the hull with 3M Adhesion Promoter:
https://www.amazon.com/3M-Adhesion-Promoter-Sponge-Applicators/dp/B07MVK1PG6/ref=sr_1_2?crid=HCJKV1Q09VD1&keywords=3m+4298&qid=1687388387&sprefix=3m+4298%2Caps%2C203&sr=8-2

I used small blue tape pieces on the hull for reference marks so I could focus on attaching the band and not worry about it being straight. Try to compress the band a little going around the corners. Peel the backing off the tape as you go. Having a helper makes the process a lot easier.

That was my process and it has worked well so far.
Good luck!

Dave

 

[rideandfly]

Dave, Thanks for the tips, sounds like a good process!

[johnwen]

We had the same issue and under warranty OTT fixed the problem last year but we are now experienced the same problem.  I'm curious, does anyone have a picture of what the shell looks like under the chrome band...maybe another solution can be realized with replacing the chrome strip with something else.

John

[rideandfly]

4 hours ago, johnwen said:

We had the same issue and under warranty OTT fixed the problem last year but we are now experienced the same problem.  I'm curious, does anyone have a picture of what the shell looks like under the chrome band...maybe another solution can be realized with replacing the chrome strip with something else.

John

John,

I have the 2" chrome band off right now around the beds. Will post a photo tomorrow.

With the weight of the current band and adhesive used, fiberglass surface has to be prepared properly for the adhesive to work long term. After working on this, believe combining parts of @DavePhelps, @GAP, and @John E Davies process would be a good one.

Been searching for a light weight 2" band material to replace the original 2" band material that looks good, but have not come up with anything, yet.

[rich.dev]

21 minutes ago, rideandfly said:

Been searching for a light weight 2" band material to replace the original 2" band material that looks good, but have not come up with anything, yet.

Try Trim-Gard, they have a 2" chrome molding in a 50' roll...part number is 99GT-01-50

[Patriot]

5 hours ago, rich.dev said:

Try Trim-Gard, they have a 2" chrome molding in a 50' roll...part number is 99GT-01-50

@rich.dev That’s it! 

[Patriot]

On 5/31/2023 at 10:00 AM, rideandfly said:

Previously installed a little Gorilla double sided tape on fiberglass where belly band is installed. When initially applied it can be removed in one piece, but if left for 24 hours difficult to remove, but removable with elbow grease, alcohol, and wood scraper made out of paint stir sticks with sharp edges on ends ground with belt sander.

EDIT: The Gorillia Super Glue double sided tape did not adhere in the corner where attached to fiberglass after several days. Cannot recommend it.

@rideandfly

Interesting..I had good results.

Our small BB area that lifted in the corner is still holding up strong with the Gorilla glue tape has not budged. I remember that there was no old tape residue from the existing chrome band left on the hull when it separated. So I had a clean surface for the Gorilla tape to adhere to.
I believe cleaning hull surface of any mold release or polish residue with alcohol allowed the Gorilla glue to adhere to both the belly band and the hull. After installing the gorilla tape under the BB  then heating it up with a hair dryer to relieve a little of the tension in the bend or curve of the corner helped promote adhesion. Not the only solution but this technique worked well for me.😊
 

 

 

[Patriot]

13 hours ago, johnwen said:

We had the same issue and under warranty OTT fixed the problem last year but we are now experienced the same problem.  I'm curious, does anyone have a picture of what the shell looks like under the chrome band...maybe another solution can be realized with replacing the chrome strip with something else.

John 

John,
Here is a pic of an area under the belly band. If this area has a lot of old tape residue or powdery residue naturally it will need to be completely removed. If not fresh double sided tape may not work for the long haul. My SWAG is that at the plant when all the interior gelcoat is polished some powdery polish residue is not removed along this seam when the BB is installed the BB adhesive just does not adhere well long term. (Look closely at the pic you will see a powdery residue) I used rubbing alcohol to prep the area removing any polishing residue from the hull seam before adding gorilla tape and it has held up great. As @SeaDawg and others mentioned it’s all about the prep.
Note - The back side of the BB chrome strip has two fairly narrow strips of what appears to be a thin and not very robust VBH tape. I don’t know of any other solution to replace factory BB. As long as mine stays put and it has so far, I plan to just leave it in place. 

Hope this helps,

Patriot🇺🇸

 

[rideandfly]

This sounds like several owners have this problem. 
 

After removing old adhesive, used alcohol for final fiberglass prep before applying Gorilla tape, but did not heat the bend radius of the band.
 

Will take photos with belly band removed today with ruler placed over hull area band covers to show hull gap width where hull joins. Will also take photo of adhesive side of belly band with ruler to show widths of original adhesive.

For surface prep, ordered  3M adhesive cleaner, White scotchbrite pad, and adhesion promoter yesterday from Amazon.
 

Already had a new belly band on order from Oliver before we started discussing  using a different chrome band yesterday. 
 

Really like how @DavePhelps fixed his belly band problem.

[rideandfly]

In addition to Patriot's photos above.

Here's the adhesive side of the of the 2" belly band. With Gorilla double sided tape still installed, one piece of tape slipped and some of my grey hairs.  🙂 The hull gap depth to the sealant between hulls varies around 1/8" to 1/4". The hull gap width is about 5/8" wide. The original adhesive strips on the belly band are about 1/2".

 

[johnwen]

Thanks much, Dave and Bill 

Curious... what are all those drilled holes around the perimeter?

[rideandfly]

48 minutes ago, johnwen said:

Thanks much, Dave and Bill 

Curious... what are all those drilled holes around the perimeter?

I can only assume the holes were made for the hull assembly process. Can someone here explain the holes?

[John E Davies]

Most likely there were 1/4” plastic pins inserted when the two inner halves were glued together, to make sure that the alignment was perfect, or perhaps “as designed” might be a better term. Then they were cut off flush. This is an educated guess, I never worked with fiberglass molds, but they have to use jigs to hold stuff in position until the adhesive cures.

John Davies

Spokane WA