Model Year Changes - 2020 to 2023/2024

[Ralph Mawyer]

I'm debating making some changes to my 2020 Elite II. Second owner, bought fully loaded with original sealed wet cell batteries.

The latest fully loaded models would have the Truma AC and Lithium Pro Packages at $102K?

Other than those two big ticket item and the move to a DC/AC only fridge, does anyone have a list of other engineering changes that might have occurred.

I like knowing what I have and have resolved any open issues, but have been looking at resale value, then buying new, just as comparison to putting money into the current trailer.

Thoughts?

[Frank C]

I’ve been considering similar upgrades to our 2019 and I think the biggest factor in the equation of upgrade cost vs. resale value vs. cost of buying a new trailer comes down to the labor cost and whether you’ll be doing the work yourself (“free” labor) or paying Oliver or Truma or an RV service center to do the work.  As an example, someone recently mentioned they had received a quote from Oliver of over $5,000 to do just the fridge update.   Most of that (well over half) was labor cost.  

[Patriot]

@Ralph Mawyer
We recently had the Truma upgrade completed on our 2020 LE2 by Oliver Service and are very happy with it. A game changer for us. Some folks are fine with the Dometic, we were not. We have no interest in the smaller compressor fridge. We have the Norcold with more space and it serves us well. The Lithium pkg was not offered when we ordered our Ollie in 2020. When ordering we did upgrade to the AGMs. We have the Truma Aqua Go and for many reasons like it. The only upgrade I would consider is replacing our AGMs maybe someday when they give up the ghost with new Lithium batteries. Hopefully by this time Lithium batteries will have come way down in price. Time will tell.

A recent quote from Mike Sharpe at Oliver Service for the basic Lithium conversion on our LE2 was $10k. 😳 I am just not a player at that price as I don’t see long term return on resale. On the other hand if I was looking at a used Oliver and it had the Truma Aventa AC, I would consider the the puchase of a used LE2 with the Truma AC over the Dometic Penguin. FWIW..
 

Patriot🇺🇸

[SeaDawg]

If that "loaded" package gets you the Truma varioHeat, that's likely a big plus1 also. (Dometic ac is still standard. Quieter Truma is an upgrade.)

Since 2022 (I think) they've added the neverlube axle, as standard. subject of some debate.

We love our dc danfoss/secop fridge, but we liked both our 3way fridges, too, until they quit working.  (I can fit a lot more fresh food in my truckfridge, self-installed, and live with the smaller freezer quite well.) We installed that electric fridge in early 2018, and I will say I'm extremely happy with its performance and reliability, now in our 6th season. 

Do you have an electric or manual awning on your 2020? I love our manual awning. New trailers get the electric.

I think the new solar package includes slightly more wattage, and some victron gear, and an mppt controller? New owners could speak to the specifics. We like the victron components we've installed on our boat, but have been completely happy with BlueSky in our trailer, primarily because of their superlative customer service.

We still have agm batteries, (2 x 105 ah 12v) supplemented with a Honda 1000 generator, and 400 watts fixed solar, up to 200 watts portable. We spent 152 days boondocking one year during covid, with a dc danfoss/secop compressor fridge, and that setup worked for us. (Note, power misers otherwise, and rarely camp where we need a/c. My particular setup wouldn't work for those who need a/c)

Then, you get a new warranty with a new trailer. That's got some value, as well.

How long do you plan to keep camping? What do you think you're "missing", and how many of the upgrades are you qualified to do yourself, or with the help of a skilled friend? For example, our truckfridge costs about $1k today. Labor free (ours), and most materials we already had. Miscellaneous materials probably under $250.

 

 

[Patriot]

40 minutes ago, SeaDawg said:

If that "loaded" package gets you the Truma varioHeat, that's likely a big plus1 also. (Dometic ac is still standard. Quieter Truma is an upgrade.)

Since 2022 (I think) they've added the neverlube axle, as standard. subject of some debate.

We love our dc danfoss/secop fridge, but we liked both our 3way fridges, too, until they quit working.  (I can fit a lot more fresh food in my truckfridge, self-installed, and live with the smaller freezer quite well.) We installed that electric fridge in early 2018, and I will say I'm extremely happy with its performance and reliability, now in our 6th season. 

Do you have an electric or manual awning on your 2020? I love our manual awning. New trailers get the electric.

I think the new solar package includes slightly more wattage, and some victron gear, and an mppt controller? New owners could speak to the specifics. We like the victron components we've installed on our boat, but have been completely happy with BlueSky in our trailer, primarily because of their superlative customer service.

We still have agm batteries, (2 x 105 ah 12v) supplemented with a Honda 1000 generator, and 400 watts fixed solar, up to 200 watts portable. We spent 152 days boondocking one year during covid, with a dc danfoss/secop compressor fridge, and that setup worked for us. (Note, power misers otherwise, and rarely camp where we need a/c. My particular setup wouldn't work for those who need a/c)

Then, you get a new warranty with a new trailer. That's got some value, as well.

How long do you plan to keep camping? What do you think you're "missing", and how many of the upgrades are you qualified to do yourself, or with the help of a skilled friend? For example, our truckfridge costs about $1k today. Labor free (ours), and most materials we already had. Miscellaneous materials probably under $250.

 

 

@SeaDawg All really great points. Especially on the truck frig and the manual awning. We really like the manual awning and our Truma cooler/freezer. I did not know the manual awning is no longer offered 😕. 
 

Patriot🇺🇸

[Rolind]

The victron components in the ‘23 models are an MPPT 100/50 charge controller and a BMV712 battery monitor.  Not sure if the Xantrex XC Pro inverter converter is new in 22 or 23. The solar panels are Newpowa. The Truma Aventa air is paired with the varioheat unit.

[SeaDawg]

@Rolind, how many watts are the newpowa panels?

[Ralph Mawyer]

2020 - Dual awnings, street side is manual.  Truma water heater.  I like the control switches better than the new ones.

Mostly comes down to needing/wanting Lithionics grade batteries and a turn-key solution. The Truma AC is a given, just trying to figure out whether to have them do other items while there for the AC upgrade.  Labor and parts cost have gone up on the Xantrex components since I got quoted last year, but no unexpected.  No price increase on the Lithionics...yet.

Apparently they've done a number of the full Lithionics upgrades, so there is demand.   I guess I could look at Airstream pricing and feeling good about the total cost. 😉.     Also think if one wants to do the Lithionics, I'd do them sooner than later, not knowing what the impact of the Winnebago buyout of Lithionics will do.

[Patriot]

I know no one has asked or mentioned this. I learned from service that the Truma Vario furnace will not be a retrofit ever.

FWIW..

Patriot🇺🇸

[SeaDawg]

@Patriot, is that new? When Truma introduced the VarioHeat, I called Lakeland Truma service center and got a reasonable quote. 

Or, maybe, not an upgrade other than at Truma. 

[rich.dev]

2 hours ago, SeaDawg said:

how many watts are the newpowa panels?

400W (2 x 200W)

[Ollie-Haus]

1 hour ago, Patriot said:

I know no one has asked or mentioned this. I learned from service that the Truma Vario furnace will not be a retrofit ever.

FWIW..

Patriot🇺🇸

 

28 minutes ago, SeaDawg said:

@Patriot, is that new? When Truma introduced the VarioHeat, I called Lakeland Truma service center and got a reasonable quote. 

Or, maybe, not an upgrade other than at Truma. 

I do believe that question was presented during the maintenance/upgrade Q&A during the rally and he said the upgrade to the Truma Vario Heat would require extensive mods that would not be practical. I'm sure anything is possible, but practical was the emphasis. My take was they would not want to offer that upgrade. 

Similarly a person asked about upgrading an older camper to a full on Lithium Platinum package, and Jason said somewhere between $18-$20K or more depending on the age of the Oliver. He indicated that this would require a complete electrical system swap out including much of the wiring, including both fuse/circuit panels, inverter/charger, batteries, harnesses and solar charge system. I think at a point it would be much more practical to sell an older model and just pay the difference for the newer model with upgraded features. 

[Ralph Mawyer]

53 minutes ago, Ollie-Haus said:

 

I do believe that question was presented during the maintenance/upgrade Q&A during the rally and he said the upgrade to the Truma Vario Heat would require extensive mods that would not be practical. I'm sure anything is possible, but practical was the emphasis. My take was they would not want to offer that upgrade. 

Similarly a person asked about upgrading an older camper to a full on Lithium Platinum package, and Jason said somewhere between $18-$20K or more depending on the age of the Oliver. He indicated that this would require a complete electrical system swap out including much of the wiring, including both fuse/circuit panels, inverter/charger, batteries, harnesses and solar charge system. I think at a point it would be much more practical to sell an older model and just pay the difference for the newer model with upgraded features. 

That’s pretty much the scenario. The Platinum Pro comes in around $17K, $10K of that is two Lithionic batteries, new Xantrex 3000 at $2100, labor $4200. 
 

[Ollie-Haus]

3 minutes ago, Ralph Mawyer said:

That’s pretty much the scenario. The Platinum Pro comes in around $17K, $10K of that is two Lithionic batteries, new Xantrex 3000 at $2100, labor $4200. 
 

Exactly. The only thing I couldn't remember was if he was listing those items' cost and then only indicated the labor would add on top of those costs significantly. It seemed as thought the complete upgrade out the door would be substantial enough to make a person reconsider. 

[Patriot]

1 hour ago, SeaDawg said:

@Patriot, is that new? When Truma introduced the VarioHeat, I called Lakeland Truma service center and got a reasonable quote. 

Or, maybe, not an upgrade other than at Truma. 

@SeaDawg
It could be that a Truma Service Center might install a Truma furnace in an Oliver I am not sure.
I was told by that Oliver will not be retrofitting the Vario heat furnace, I honestly don’t know how new it is. 
Jason Essary could provide more details. It would be expensive for sure.
 

Patriot🇺🇸

[SeaDawg]

At that point, it's pencil selling time. Add it up. What you can do, what you cannot. What you love and need. 

Add it all up, put your beloved trailer up for sale if you decide to go forward. 

I can't offer a lot of advice in that scenario,  as my husband and I do most mods. As we get older, and it gets harder to do, that attitude is about to change,  imo. . 

 

[Patriot]

1 hour ago, Ollie-Haus said:

 

I do believe that question was presented during the maintenance/upgrade Q&A during the rally and he said the upgrade to the Truma Vario Heat would require extensive mods that would not be practical. I'm sure anything is possible, but practical was the emphasis. My take was they would not want to offer that upgrade. 

Similarly a person asked about upgrading an older camper to a full on Lithium Platinum package, and Jason said somewhere between $18-$20K or more depending on the age of the Oliver. He indicated that this would require a complete electrical system swap out including much of the wiring, including both fuse/circuit panels, inverter/charger, batteries, harnesses and solar charge system. I think at a point it would be much more practical to sell an older model and just pay the difference for the newer model with upgraded features. 

Thanks Chris, I was not present for that portion of the rally Q&A. 👍🏻👍🏻

[Ollie-Haus]

1 hour ago, Ollie-Haus said:

 

I do believe that question was presented during the maintenance/upgrade Q&A during the rally and he said the upgrade to the Truma Vario Heat would require extensive mods that would not be practical. I'm sure anything is possible, but practical was the emphasis. My take was they would not want to offer that upgrade. 

Similarly a person asked about upgrading an older camper to a full on Lithium Platinum package, and Jason said somewhere between $18-$20K or more depending on the age of the Oliver. He indicated that this would require a complete electrical system swap out including much of the wiring, including both fuse/circuit panels, inverter/charger, batteries, harnesses and solar charge system. I think at a point it would be much more practical to sell an older model and just pay the difference for the newer model with upgraded features. 

On the other hand he did indicate that it is very possible to perform a battery and charger system upgrade to lithium batteries, such as folks have done with the Battleborn batteries, but that was normally done by someone other than the factory. It just isn't a fully integrated system like the system currently installed on the new Olivers but it is very much an option for older campers. 

[SeaDawg]

And, many of our folks have done successful battleborn conversions, at very reasonable  cost.

Much depends on your skill/technical level, and available local talent (pro, or skilled friends.)

We are fortunate to have both. Many aren't. Our younger, techy friends who can twist like pretzels in small spaces (unlike us) help us on many days. 

Be that as it may, we know our camping style,  and how to manage limited power. We rarely choose camping areas that require power for a/c. (Twice or three times in 15 seasons?)

Our style is way different from others, so don't get me wrong.  If you camp in heat, you need different styles from us.

I've probably said it in here a hundred times. Everyone has a different camping style, and there is not one that is better than others. The best one is what suits you. Tailor for YOUR needs and wants.

 

 

 

[MAX Burner]

12 minutes ago, SeaDawg said:

I've probably said it in here a hundred times. Everyone has a different camping style, and there is not one that is better than others. The best one is what suits you. Tailor for YOUR needs and wants.

 

@SeaDawg:  Concur, 100%!

[SeaDawg]

On 6/12/2023 at 9:00 PM, Patriot said:

@SeaDawg
It could be that a Truma Service Center might install a Truma furnace in an Oliver I am not sure.
I was told by that Oliver will not be retrofitting the Vario heat furnace, I honestly don’t know how new it is. 
Jason Essary could provide more details. It would be expensive for sure.
 

Patriot🇺🇸

I was thinking about that today. I now remember that Truma drew up a different duct plan, etc., for the Oliver Legacy Elite II installations. I would guess that's what creates the prohibitive price.

The furnace in my 2008 Elite is not ducted,  so that's quite likely the difference.  

[Jps190]

     As many have said the real cost is going to be the labor from Oliver to do the different changes.  I have the 390 AH lithium package simply because they were switching from the lifeblue to lithionics and I got the Lithionics at the old price. ($500 cheaper).  The Lithionics are excellent batteries but there are many cheaper options that would work just as well.  If considering changing the batteries I would also look at updating the wiring and adding a solar controller or sizing a new one one large enough for an external panel setup.  Olivers factory wiring job under the streetside bed leaves much to be desired.  Regarding the Truma upgrade I would consider looking at the Houghton that many of us have installed.  It is just as quiet as the Truma but also includes a heat pump function (saves propane) that will keep you warm down to about 30 degrees.  I was the one that got the quote for $5200 to change out the refrigerator.  Way to expensive for me to consider so I will do it myself when the time comes.  As always, upgrades depend on your ability, your checkbook or both!! 😂

John 

 

[Patriot]

13 minutes ago, Jps190 said:

     As many have said the real cost is going to be the labor from Oliver to do the different changes.  I have the 390 AH lithium package simply because they were switching from the lifeblue to lithionics and I got the Lithionics at the old price. ($500 cheaper).  The Lithionics are excellent batteries but there are many cheaper options that would work just as well.  If considering changing the batteries I would also look at updating the wiring and adding a solar controller or sizing a new one one large enough for an external panel setup.  Olivers factory wiring job under the streetside bed leaves much to be desired.  Regarding the Truma upgrade I would consider looking at the Houghton that many of us have installed.  It is just as quiet as the Truma but also includes a heat pump function (saves propane) that will keep you warm down to about 30 degrees.  I was the one that got the quote for $5200 to change out the refrigerator.  Way to expensive for me to consider so I will do it myself when the time comes.  As always, upgrades depend on your ability, your checkbook or both!! 😂

John 

 

John,

Excellent clean work! Super Sano!! 
 

Patriot🇺🇸

[Geronimo John]

On 6/12/2023 at 8:07 AM, Patriot said:

A recent quote from Mike Sharpe at Oliver Service for the basic Lithium conversion on our LE2 was $10k. 😳 I am just not a player at that price as I don’t see long term return on resale.

I agree.  How about  three 100 amp hour Battleborns, 3000 w inverter, 200 watt solar suit case (I wish I had gotten two each 100 watt ones though), Victron DC to DC charging and 712 Smart all for under $4,600 in 2021/22?  Plus of course about 5 days labor by my self.

2021 SOLAR INSTALLATION INVOICE SUMMARY.xlsx

The only really hard parts were the below and cutting a hole in the dog house for the #4 charging cables to the TV battery.   

If I were doing it again, I would have made the cutting board "pan handle" just a bit wider.  The switch mounting bolt could have used another 1/4" of meat.

[SeaDawg]

On 6/13/2023 at 7:00 PM, Geronimo John said:

Victron DC to DC charging and 712 Smart all for under $4,600 in 2021/22?  Plus of course about 5 days labor by my self.

Hat's off to you. Pretty sure that would have taken the two of us longer.

But still underlines the points. Our labor (however long it takes) is free, since we're retired.

I think Oliver has always charged a fair rate, especially compared to our local service centers. 

It's all a matter of skills, and wallet.