Simple AGM to Lithium Conversion question(s)

[jd1923]

1 hour ago, drfaux said:

... still need to determine the best way to disable the Tow Vehicle charging - hoping there's a fuse somewhere that'll take care of it...

Our Oliver is older, and I believe yours might be too, since you mentioned  Blue Sky equipment. I do not recognize the picture @mountainoliver showed, meaning hull 113 does not have such wiring. Hard to say since neither of you have a signature line with hull numbers. I added two pics, the first to see overall location under the streetside bed, and then look at the close-up and you will see the black wire I disconnected hanging loose. Afterwards I just taped it and laid it down below.

it's the only black wire without the big yellow fuses (for the stabilizer jacks). First check to read 12VDC on the black at the trailer plug. Then disconnect this wire, test voltage again. You should read an open circuit, meaning zero volts. This will ensure you pulled the right wire. 

[mountainoliver]

If you checked continuity at the plug and that changed after you removed the wire shown in your picture, then you must have removed the correct wire. I believe that the automatic circuit breaker is shown on my Oliver supplied wiring diagram for 2017. My trailer is a 2017 model, hull 208. 

[Ronbrink]

7 hours ago, jd1923 said:

the first to see overall location under the streetside bed

Your pic shows a  ‘white’ mounting plate under the components, was it glued or screwed down? I was wondering what material occurs immediately under the insulation layer on top of the wheel well, specifically the ‘raised’ platform under the ‘white’ plate. 

[topgun2]

1 hour ago, Ronbrink said:

was it glued or screwed down?

In that vintage of Oliver - most (if not all) were glued.

Bill

[Ronbrink]

5 minutes ago, topgun2 said:

In that vintage of Oliver - most (if not all) were glued.

Bill

This is a pic of my street side wheel well. Although the galvanized floor pipe flange is clearly glued, I am interested in knowing what material lies directly under it; whether that raised area can be screwed into to mount electronics. Any idea what purpose that flange had, maybe a production support?

[topgun2]

THAT's interesting!

Never saw one of those in an Oliver either in or out of the factory.

Bill

[topgun2]

Perhaps a bit more to your point though -

There have been several threads here on the Forum related to the various types of material that have been used for mounting various items.  These range from marine grade plywood to plastic cutting boards to various poly type construction materials.

I think that both Mossemi and ScubaRx have some experience along these lines - a PM to each might get you a direction you can use.

Bill

p.s.  As far as I know - the material under that insulation would simply be the inside of the hull.  I'd be very careful putting screws through it because it is highly likely that your tires are under there.

Edited January 27 by topgun2
added detail

[mountainoliver]

The material on top of the wheel well is fiberglass reinforced with the honeycomb material that Oliver typically uses. The honeycomb material is saturated with resin. The white plastic material is the typical Starboard marine material that Oliver uses everywhere for mounting purposes. The white material that I use is vinyl trim board material available at Lowe’s or Home Depot. I believe that Oliver, at least everything that I have seen, is glued (epoxied) in place. All of the mounting boards that I have installed are epoxied in place. I originally used plywood to mount the solar equipment to but later changed to the vinyl boards. I personally wouldn’t use plywood or other wood for mounting in the Oliver. Keep in mind that any condensation that forms in the walls (and it does in the winter) will run down into the basement area and eventually either will evaporate or run out of the scuppers underneath. You can see the honeycomb material in the upper part of the picture. My solar installation probably looks different than other 2017 or earlier models. During the 2017 model year Oliver was in the process of changing the solar equipment from Blue Sky to Zamp. I ordered my trailer without any solar equipment and added it later. Scubarx (Steve) spec’d out the previously used Blue Sky equipment which I ordered and we installed/wired it all in his driveway. I wanted the Blue Sky equipment because the controller is fully programmable whereas the Zamp controller is not, and the Blue Sky controller is MPPT vs RMS technology of the Zamp system. I then took the trailer to the Oliver factory and they installed the panels. I later remounted the controller, master switch, and circuit breaker on the vinyl board. The entire system has worked absolutely flawlessly for seven years. 

[jd1923]

53 minutes ago, mountainoliver said:

I ordered my trailer without any solar equipment and added it later...

This is why I did not recognize the wiring in your earlier photo. Also, you have your inverter in this compartment and mine was installed by OTT under the rear side of the dinette.

@Ronbrink Unless you purchased yours new, somebody must have added that galvanized threaded pipe mount! I can't imagine a purpose for such a large ugly mount in that location.  

Glue or tape everything possible, stay away from penetrating the hulls, except if you need to run wires. @mountainoliver has an excellent example and description here!

I installed the standard PI EMS (that did not come on older hulls) under the dinette, no mounting plate, laying on the insulation using only carpet tape to seat it. The heavy cables also hold it down and it is a large sealed box having its own base (I have a thread on this install).

[mossemi]

2 hours ago, Ronbrink said:

Your pic shows a  ‘white’ mounting plate under the components, was it glued or screwed down? I was wondering what material occurs immediately under the insulation layer on top of the wheel well, specifically the ‘raised’ platform under the ‘white’ plate. 

I see that @mountainoliver is a lot faster than I am so there is a lot of duplication in my response.

I follow Oliver’s lead for hardware mounting, such as the water pump and or accumulator tank.  Although Oliver uses a composite material that is available in larger sheets, I usually use big box stores line of PVC lumber.  You can choose from a wide variety of dimensional PVC lumber and put 2 different pieces side by side as needed.

After I have decided what size boards I need for the equipment to be mounted, I will determine the location for mounting.  Using the top of the wheel well as an example, I will draw an outline of the mounting board on the Reflectix insulation and remove the Reflectix by cutting and scraping to provide a clean surface for J-B Weld epoxy.  I like the 10 oz. size, it’s cheaper and stores pretty well.  I will roughen the side of the PVC lumber that will be epoxied down, hoping to create better adhesion.  I add some weight to the top and let the epoxy cure.  Flat surfaces like the top of the wheel well is pretty easy, whereas vertical surfaces are more difficult.  
Mossey

[Guest]

EDITED/UPDATED

Group ... apologies for confusion ... I've just discovered I apparently have two accounts/profiles in this forum ... one is displayed as "Danno and Donna" ... the other as FauxPa (an earlier account that I though had been disabled) ... so, postings from either of these profiles/accounts are from the same person Me!) ... going forward I'll post all under "Danno and Donna" ... so sorry!

That said ... 

mmm ... all very intriguing ... here is my street side (under the rear bed) service bay ... from this I can share a number of things ...

1. neither of the suggested TV Charger disconnects (from JD1023 nor mountainoliver earlier in this thread) seem to exist in my Ollie (# 069 2015) ... or, at least I'm not seeing them (my wife gets frustrated when I can't find the ketchup in the Frig - it's always right in front of me!)
2. the busbar in JD1923's pic is not in mine (perhaps located somewhere else in the trailer?)
3. however, there is a busbar in the dinette seat (rear) service bay ...  I'm thinking that was either placed the in the original build to better accommodate other customizations, or was moved there later with some other changes the 2nd owner made ... I'll need to chase down some of the wiring on that busbar to see if one of them is, in fact, the TV Charger connection.
   • SIDE NOTE: as I know someone will ask ... the blue junction box in my pic appears to be for 110V power to three tank heaters - 1 ea. for fresh, grey, and black tanks (switches for these are locate in the front closet along with three similar 12V switches) ... I understand these were installed as a customization for the original build/purchaser
   • my #069 has a 2500W COTEK Pure Sine Wave power inverter installed under the dinette seat (rear) - this was either installed as part of the same original build customization, or was installed later (2nd owner?) as a replacement for the original
4. I find the handwritten notes interesting ... apparently someone else was attempting to better understand the wiring/power scheme like me - some of it helpful, some of it confusing.

[Guest]

Also ... interesting to see the evolution of the Ollie design/development ... note the black insulation )not silver space wrap) ... again, not sure if that was added later or was part of the original build ... I understand the original owner had requested several items focused around cold weather - tank heaters (both 110V and 12V, additional insulations prior to the shells closure, etc. ... would be interesting to talk to that owner to better understand his driving factors, and then why he sold within a couple of years (but I respect his privacy and will NOT be reaching out to him) ... lots of other little items I've noticed as well - switches and monitors located differently than today's, gas stove facing a different direction, etc.

[Ronbrink]

3 hours ago, topgun2 said:

As far as I know - the material under that insulation would simply be the inside of the hull.  I'd be very careful putting screws through it because it is highly likely that your tires are under there.

To quote mountainoliver “The material on top of the wheel well is fiberglass reinforced with the honeycomb material that Oliver typically uses. The honeycomb material is saturated with resin.” I saw this same honeycomb material in mods on the underside of the nightstand and Lagun tabletops when cutting them, as well as the center raised area under the Lagun and dinette tabletops when repositioning the swivel base and support post, respectively. In both instances, screws were used into the honeycomb material in mounting each. The honeycomb material on top of the wheel wells appears to be even thicker and with care, could probably be screwed into enough to fasten the small, lightweight equipment I’m looking to install. 

[Ronbrink]

2 hours ago, jd1923 said:

Unless you purchased yours new, somebody must have added that galvanized threaded pipe mount! I can't imagine a purpose for such a large ugly mount in that location.

I bought the Oliver new, maybe someone will be able to solve the mystery!

[Ronbrink]

3 hours ago, mountainoliver said:

You can see the honeycomb material in the upper part of the picture.

Thanks, your pic confirms what I suspected. I assume the reflective insulating material is first removed to ensure an appropriate bond of a mounting plate to the honeycomb material. BTW, I quoted you in my reply to topgun2!

[mountainoliver]

Yes, insulation is removed and I thoroughly wipe down the fiberglass to remove any old glue or release agent that may be on the fiberglass. I have typically used a Permatex brand epoxy material that has a very high solvent content so that it actually melts into both the fiberglass and the vinyl mounting material somewhat. Unfortunately in our little town I can no longer find this brand, so I’ve tried other brands with extremely dissatisfying results. The Permatex brand appears to make a very strong bond between the fiberglass and the vinyl board material.

[topgun2]

2 hours ago, FauxPa said:

would be interesting to talk to that owner to better understand his driving factors, and then why he sold within a couple of years (but I respect his privacy and will NOT be reaching out to him) ... lots of other little items I've noticed as well - switches and monitors located differently than today's, gas stove facing a different direction, etc.

I've split my replies concerning the above quote into a new thread since it really didn't fit with the topic of this thread.

It can now be found HERE.

There are a number or reviews, pictures and details about this Oliver by its original owner located in various places in his blog posts from 2016 through 2017.

Enjoy!

Bill

[Danno and Donna]

11 hours ago, Ronbrink said:

This is a pic of my street side wheel well. Although the galvanized floor pipe flange is clearly glued, I am interested in knowing what material lies directly under it; whether that raised area can be screwed into to mount electronics. Any idea what purpose that flange had, maybe a production support?

.... mmmm ... stripper pole option? ... was that offered at one time? (sorry, couldn't resist - apologies if anyone's offended)

[topgun2]

11 hours ago, Danno and Donna said:

.... mmmm ... stripper pole option? ... was that offered at one time? (sorry, couldn't resist - apologies if anyone's offended)

Yep - this was my first thought too.

However, only the Elite I's had what was known as the "stripper pole".

Bill

[MAX Burner]

On 1/27/2024 at 9:51 AM, mossemi said:

I will draw an outline of the mounting board on the Reflectix insulation and remove the Reflectix by cutting and scraping to provide a clean surface for J-B Weld epoxy.

OMG:  We love JB Weld!!!

[SeaDawg]

22 hours ago, Danno and Donna said:

.... mmmm ... stripper pole option? ... was that offered at one time? (sorry, couldn't resist - apologies if anyone's offended)

For those of you who've never seen the inside of a first gen Elite, here's a photo of the infamous "stripper pole."  It's quite helpful as a handhold if you're the person sleeping next to the hull, climbing over your sleeping spouse, to get to the lav in the middle of the night. 

We had many jokes about it, back in the day. 

(Apologies for the thread drift, @Ronbrink)

 

[Danno and Donna]

Well ... now ya'll have me thinking very creatively about my next mod ! ... Cheers!

[Jps190]

On 1/26/2024 at 10:35 PM, Danno and Donna said:

UPDATE: So ... I pulled the trigger today - ordered (2) Epoch 12v 300Ah batteries ... scheduled to ship on 2/15 ... all in, including PA state sales tax and shipping came to $2206 ... confirmed my current PD PD4045 Power Control Center is Li capable (will need to flip the switch), my BlueSky solar with IPN remote will work fine as it can be reconfigured for the Li (confirmed all the necessary settings) ... still need to determine the best way to disable the Tow Vehicle charging - hoping there's a fuse somewhere that'll take care of it.  Rivernerd mentioned a 3 KW inverter/charger - that would be nice but the trailer already has a Cotek 2000 watt inverter that I think will be sufficient (no need to spend the additional $)

I'll return here in late Feb to provide and update on progress and outcomes ... thanks, everyone, for your thoughts, insights, and advice.  Talk soon ...

I ran across one concern about the 300ah Epochs.  One of the reviews on their website suggests that there is no way to turn off the heating function of this battery.  If you store the trailer outside in a cold environment then the heaters will come on to warm the battery and unless you have power available they will eventually hit low voltage cutoff and shut down.  Seems odd that there is no way to disable the heating function.  The 460ah battery has a power switch to shut the battery down.

 

John

[shhQuiet]

On 1/26/2024 at 12:45 PM, Rivernerd said:

Since 2022 Oliver has offered the Lithium Platinum Package, which provides 630 Ah of LiFePO4 battery capacity.

My 2023 has 2 x 320Ah for a total of 640Ah, I guess the capacity has improved very slightly.  Very happy with it.

If I'm boondocking and use a minimal amount I will consume about 10-12% of my capacity per day if it is overcast and I have no solar coming in.  This typically includes:

• lights
• running the fan some
• occasional water pump
• running my CPAP off DC all night
• inverter to make coffee X 3
• Inverter sometimes for a minute or two of microwave
• inverter to power television and DVD player to watch a 2+ hour movie at night.

[Rivernerd]

13 hours ago, Jps190 said:

If you store the trailer outside in a cold environment then the heaters will come on to warm the battery and unless you have power available they will eventually hit low voltage cutoff and shut down.

If you must store the trailer in a cold environment without access to power, then you should remove the battery from the battery box and store it in a temperature-controlled environment (like your home).