We are stuck without power. Where do I find the converter and will it support lithium batteries

[jd1923]

4 hours ago, taylor.coyote said:

the box is toasted...

So, you can replace it or simply bypass the ATS. For us, we only use the Shore Power connection streetside. Our PD5100 ATS was about to falter last year and ahead of a major trip, and instead of replacing it, the decision I made was to bypass the ATS!

Do this if you are not a generator guy (which is truly against my religion, given the current art of LiFePO4 and inverter technology). I do not need the front Shore Power connection and hence, I do not need an ATS! Less stuff, less cr@p to go wrong! 😎

Note top-right in the picture where you see the interior side of the main shore inlet. Normally, this cable goes to the ATS (large box on the left). The ATS will have two (2) incoming shore power connections and one out to the power panel. KI most RVs the ATs switches as needed between Shore Power and an onboard generator. 

I rewired ours to bypass the ATS, now wired directly to the EMS (wire it directly to the 120VAC power panel if your older hull does not have an EMS). I left the other cables in place to revert if ever necessary, but never again will I have to worry about the ATS as wired (or spend another $140 to replace it). I have replaced the PD5100 ATS in every (3 of 3) RVs we have owned! It is the nature of the beast! 🤣

Edited December 9 by jd1923
Added pic!

[taylor.coyote]

And for the rest of the story: Replaced the converter, replaced the TOASTED transfer switch, replaced AMG batteries (300AH lithium) and added the dork converter for the Maxx fan.  JD, after this experience, I'm not ready to let go of the generator redundancy and we need it for the air conditioner. Love to jettison the generator, we'll see now how it goes with lithium batteries. 

AND AS ALL OF YOU ALREADY KNOW...... YOU CAN'T TAKE IT WITH YOU... AND IT'S ONLY MONEY.

Now we are good to go.... almost...  while installing the new batteries we discovered broken rivers at the top of the battery box... I found an excellent  stream with solutions but this will wait till we get home. We'll keep an eye out but the reduced weight of the Lithium (210 lbs lighter than our AGM batteries). 201 lbs, that's a crazy number.  Hopefully lighter batteries will be kinder to the battery box. 

Thanks to everyone's contributed that has helped get us back on the road.  

 

 

[John Dorrer]

8 hours ago, taylor.coyote said:

And for the rest of the story: Replaced the converter, replaced the TOASTED transfer switch, replaced AMG batteries (300AH lithium) and added the dork converter for the Maxx fan.  JD, after this experience, I'm not ready to let go of the generator redundancy and we need it for the air conditioner. Love to jettison the generator, we'll see now how it goes with lithium batteries. 

AND AS ALL OF YOU ALREADY KNOW...... YOU CAN'T TAKE IT WITH YOU... AND IT'S ONLY MONEY.

Now we are good to go.... almost...  while installing the new batteries we discovered broken rivers at the top of the battery box... I found an excellent  stream with solutions but this will wait till we get home. We'll keep an eye out but the reduced weight of the Lithium (210 lbs lighter than our AGM batteries). 201 lbs, that's a crazy number.  Hopefully lighter batteries will be kinder to the battery box. 

Thanks to everyone's contributed that has helped get us back on the road.  

 

 

Great news😊

[Steph and Dud B]

14 hours ago, taylor.coyote said:

I'm not ready to let go of the generator redundancy

We still carry a genny. Never use it, except to charge Stephanie's e-bike, but it's nice to have, just in case.

[Wayfinder]

I have also posted a reminder on the Oliver Owners FB group. 

Hope this gets resolved soon for you @taylor.coyote .

I might carry a spare ATR box (new style) when I retire and do more Oliver-based rallies.  I also carry several spares of the Maxx Fan cog mechanism that opens the lid up.  They fall apart every five years or so, usage depending.  Cheap pot-metal junk. I have replaced at least three of them so far for friends.  LOL

 

[Geronimo John]

On 12/8/2025 at 1:12 PM, taylor.coyote said:

the box is toasted..... imaged attached.  I'll send more about our adventure later.

I emplore you to:

• Purchase a  30 Amp version ATS, not the smaller one some of us have. I was "shocked" that mine only had a 20 A ATS.    
• On yours, where you see toasted insulation on the wires, cut it out and reterminate.  This may require some gymnastics.
• Label each wire as to it's destination.  Will save you from using some "bad words" as John D. uses to say.

GJ

Edited December 10 by Geronimo John
Updated to newer installs having 30 Amp ATS. Note: this is NOT the Pogressive Industries EMS HW30C which protects incomming power.

[Wayfinder]

https://www.etrailer.com/RV-Transfer-Switch/Progressive-Dynamics/PD5110010Q.html

30 AMP model here.

 

[dewdev]

@Geronimo John@Wayfinder

FYI, in my 2018 Elite II, hull # 354, the owner's manual for the ATS says it is a 30 amp unit, 

I think it is a model:

PD5110010

 

 

Edited December 9 by dewdev

[Geronimo John]

4 hours ago, dewdev said:

@Geronimo John@Wayfinder

FYI, in my 2018 Elite II, hull # 354, the owner's manual for the ATS says it is a 30 amp unit, 

I think it is a model:

PD5110010

5 hours ago, Wayfinder said:

https://www.etrailer.com/RV-Transfer-Switch/Progressive-Dynamics/PD5110010Q.html

30 AMP model here.

Both JD's 2017 and my 2018 had the 20 Amp Auto Transfer Switch with lead acid batteries from the factory.  When mine went south, the max in the line I could find in 2019 was the 20 amp.  So I split my shore power connection and added another 20 amp.  I put the A/C on this ATS as suggested by a fellow owner.  I figured it was an better solution. 

I am  VERY glad you posted about a 30 Amp being available.  Many owners have posted that OEM 20 Amp ATS's seem to have a short life span.  I see your point that if you have a 30 amp service, then all components in the 120 system must be able to live happily with 30 Amps.  It also eliminates having two each 20 Amp ATS units to do so.

Does anyone have an idea why we and others had 20 Amp ATS's installed?  John Davies post about changing out a failed one was the genesis of much of my info on the topic.

GJ  

 

Edited December 10 by Geronimo John
Better explained why I have two each 20 Amp ATS to cover teh 30 amp potential loads

[Geronimo John]

On 12/6/2025 at 3:52 PM, CRM said:

I don't have an auto transfer switch on mine, but I don't think it will work without 12v going to it.

YES.  It has no 12V connections.  It basically is an A/B switch between shore power and the Inverter created 120V power.  I believe it defaults to Shore Power.

GJ

Edited December 10 by Geronimo John
NO 12V connections

[jd1923]

2 hours ago, Geronimo John said:

Does anyone have an idea…

The KISEA ATS is used when you have a 2KW inverter that has NO internal ATS (as all modern, capable 3KW inverters have).

This variety of ATS allows you to switch between main inverter circuits and add an A/C circuit. Search for keyword ‘KISEA’ and the story we be told, in several forum posts.

The ATS required to decipher two (2) shore power inputs, is the PD5100, or variation. It’s ALWAYS the PD5100 a 30A ATS! 😎

[Geronimo John]

Makes sense now.  Thanks.  So basically it goes back to the OEM size of the Inverter.

In a way, my employment of twin 20-Amp ATS units gives me a "Hanging Spare Part" if one fails.  If away from a parts source and lose an ATS, I can decide if I want AC for the A/C or want AC for the Converter (For Microwave, Coffee Pot etc.)  

When one of my  20-Amp ATC's fails I'll replace it with a 30-Amp to match better my 3,000 watt Renogy Inverter.

Thanks for "The Paul Harvey"!

GJ

[katanapilot]

I must be missing something and/or am very confused.

If the shore power cable goes directly to the ATS (from either external power receptacle), how can either a 15 or 20 amp ATS be acceptable? 
 

I admit I have no idea how these were wired on earlier trailers, but it just seems wrong to have a 30 amp source feeding into a 15 or 20 amp switch.  

[CRM]

11 hours ago, Geronimo John said:

YES.  It has no 12V connections.  It basically is an A/B switch between shore power and the Inverter created 120V power.  I believe it defaults to Shore Power.

GJ

Thanks, I did a little reading and fully understand how the transfer switches on Ollies work now. My only expedience with a transfer switch was on a boat that my father owned. It had a transfer switch that switched between onboard invertor power and shore power and I'm almost certain that setup needed battery power for it to work correctly. 

[taylor.coyote]

One more issue:  put in the new progressive dynamic controller (PD4045-CSV) and its charging my batteries to 14.5 volts.. the recommended for my batteries is 14.4 v.

spoke with the battery company techs and they said my batteries top voltage it can handle is 14.6...  .. they told me that 14.5 will be ok as long as the control does not change beyond 14.5 v ....

what voltage is your PD405-CSV charing your batteries?  is my controller opperating as it should?

 

 

[Snackchaser]

1 hour ago, taylor.coyote said:

One more issue:  put in the new progressive dynamic controller (PD4045-CSV) and its charging my batteries to 14.5 volts.. the recommended for my batteries is 14.4 v.

spoke with the battery company techs and they said my batteries top voltage it can handle is 14.6...  .. they told me that 14.5 will be ok as long as the control does not change beyond 14.5 v ....

what voltage is your PD405-CSV charing your batteries?  is my controller opperating as it should?

 

 

The charging voltage profiles for lithiums are critical, and consequently most lithium chargers have very tight tolerances, typically within 0.1 volt.  PD's are considered good, and their output has been reported to be  from 14.4 up to 14.6 volts.  There is also tolerance of whatever measurement device was used, a typical DIY multimeter has a tolerance of 0.5%.    With this information, it looks like you are safely within the margin of error, and the battery company info.  However, It wouldn't hurt to measure voltage with a known precise meter for peace of mind.

[Wayfinder]

4 hours ago, katanapilot said:

I must be missing something and/or am very confused.

If the shore power cable goes directly to the ATS (from either external power receptacle), how can either a 15 or 20 amp ATS be acceptable? 
 

I admit I have no idea how these were wired on earlier trailers, but it just seems wrong to have a 30 amp source feeding into a 15 or 20 amp switch.  

@katanapilot You are not confused any more than I was at first. There are THREE major subjects being discussed, too much for a single forum thread.

1. We have a common situation where Automatic Transfer Relay (ATR) has melted down a bit causing a power outage from Shore power. This box switches from shore power receptacle outside to/from the front Generator 30A receptacle (by front jack), but ONLY if you opted for the front power plug/receptacle (an add-on at build time).  The old style ATR box commonly melts down on the plastic bus bar or actually catches fire inside the box (usually a small flame). Most folks get rid of the old ATR box and replace it with the one I have pictured above. (New part # PD5110010Q). In the past two years I know of at least four of these old boxes catching fire or melting down.  You would smell plastic/rubber burning.
   NOTE: If you do not have a 30A receptacle in the front of the trailer, by the front jack, then you do NOT have an ATR box. There is not need for an ATR at that point since you only have a single shore power receptacle next to the battery box.  

2. We also have a discussion about a power converter charging the batteries. The AC charger is in the breaker panel box (part # PD405-CSV). I have already upgraded mine, as many have, to be able to charge certified Lithium batteries, but I have not changed over to Lithium yet myself.

3. Lastly there is talk about the inline Transfer Relay Switch (TRS) which provides automatic switching between shore power and the inverter AC source. My TRS is a Xantrex PROwatt SW Inline switch, Part # 808-0915. Not sure who has what in their older trailers these days, but I still have a 2000 watt Xantrex inverter in my trailer, which I have replaced once as well. The inverter provides AC power from the batteries when shore power is not available, so we can still have hot coffee in the morning from our electric water kettle and blow our aging hair with a hair dryer.  LOL

FYI, if you are plugged into shore power at a campground, there is no need to have the inverter powered on. It will do nothing for you.  In my case, the Prowatt TRS detects shore power, and switches to using that to provide you AC electricity, versus getting AC from the inverter. Assuming everything is working correctly.

These could all be dedicated threads and likely are in the forums somewhere.

I hope I do not add to the confusion. I too was confused at first over all the subjects spoken about.

Edited December 10 by Wayfinder

[Snackchaser]

Wayfinder, you are correct, this thread got convoluted and confusing.  You mentioned that you plan to upgrade your power converter/charger to handle lithium, and that you already have the Xantrex 2000 inverter.  I have good news for you!  I'm pretty sure all the Xantrex inverters already  have a built in converter and charger.  Your PD converter/charger is redundant.  You don't need it and should probably take it out.

A made a little sketch of how a lot of the Olivers are set up.  This shows the configurations  with and without the optional inverter, and the front generator receptacle with Automatic Transfer Switch.  Different years may vary.

Cheers!  Geoff

[Geronimo John]

WELL STATED WAYFINDER!

Preceeding your post are several disconnects and confusing statements.  Part of the confusion is that there are two different designs of our electrical systems.  I am not so sure it can be differentiated for label purposes by "Old" or "New".  I suspect that the selection of your OEM inverter size determines which system was used.  I mention this as looking at the pictures of the 2016 vs our 2018 and the more advanced layout appears with the 3,000 watt inverter, and the more simple approach was used for the 2,000-watt inverter such as our 2018.  As such, I believe the OEM inverter size is the deciding factor in which set-up an owner has. 

Digesting all of the above, my pea brain has summarized the two designs as:

2000-Watt Inverter Systems: 

• May/may not have dual shore power feeds.   
• Will have a PI Eenergy Management System (EMS) located under the rear dinette seat.  The PI EMS display has a 15' cord, and as such the display can be found in several locations.  In our early 2018 OE2, it is located under the street side bed.  Power (City or Generator) flows into the trailer directly to the EMS. The EMS provides power noise filtering, voltage regulation, spike and surge protection.  The output of the EMS goes to the Auto Transfer Switch(s) (ATS).
• This ATS acts as an A or B switch between two power sources.  The input is either the 2,000-watt inverter or the EMS.  It's output is to the PI Combo AC/DC Power Panel located under the rear dinette seat.  
• At the time, we were stuck with Lead Acid/ATM batteries & power hungry hammer mill Air Conditioner.  With the goal in mind of being able to run our air conditioner off newly installed Lithium batteries, an inverter upgrade would be desired.  My intent was to do this upgrade with our 2,000-Watt inverter died.  
• In my case the next season, our 2,000-watt Inverter failed.  Perfect excuse to upgrade to a 3,000-Watt inverter.  But my single 20-A ATS needed to also be upgraded to handle the additional current.   A inexpensive and simple solution was to buy another 20-Amp ATS and install it with the output only going to the A/C.  A simple mod. 

The old style EMS has a lifetime warranty.  This in my opinion is a good reason not to change the 3,000Watt design below. Keeping the lifetime EMS makes sthe dual ATS approach financially advantageous.  A second advantage is that the twin ATS approach greatly reduces the load and in theory increases the life of the twin ATS units.  It also is not an "all your eggs in one basket as we have "Hanging Spare" gives you options should an infield failure occur.  I like options.

3000-Watt Inverter Systems: 

• May or may not have dual shore power feeds.
• These newer design systems bring in power from the outside port(s) direclty to the 5100 ATR.  This single unit appears to have power condition and protection simular to the EMS above.  It also has the power interuption and switching capability as the EMS above. 
• It combines in one box the EMS and the ATR roles mentioned above.   Thereby saving in cable, connections and weight.  All good.
• As such the power switching must handle the extra 1,000-watts from the inverter, the switching was upgraded to the 30-A level.  

This new style design is more compact and from all indications is very reliable.  If I had this system, there would be no consideration to going back to the older design.  I would however consider carrying a spare 5100 ATR. A good $128 investment.  I like options.

 

Hope this clears up some of the fog.

GJ

Edited December 10 by Geronimo John

[jd1923]

6 hours ago, Snackchaser said:

Xantrex inverters already  have a built in converter and charger.

Not on the older hulls! Chris owns #110 and ours is #113. OTT installed a 2KW Xantrex inverter in our Oliver (inverter only, no charger). The PD charger installed in the power panel was the only charger (hence Chris’ recent upgrade to the PD charger with the LiFePO4 switch)!

Edited December 11 by jd1923

[taylor.coyote]

Wow this thing has become confused. It may be my fault due to my minimal electrical skills and not being clear.

Below is what we have changed

• Our transfer switch burned-out. We replaced it. We run shore, generator and 12v DC power in our trailer
• We do not have an inverter.. We run everything at 12v  when not plugged into shore power or generator
• We replaced the 2016 factory installed progressive dynamic controller that came in the trailer (would not support lithium) with new progressive dynamic controller (PD4045-CSV) to accommodate lithium batteries
• replaced old AMG batteries with lithium 300AH

The new progressive dynamic controller (PD4045-CSV) is charging our lithium batteries to 14.5 volts when the recommended is 14.4volts when at 100%. Per the manufacture's battery techs, our batteries can handle 14.6V max. I'm feeling uncomfotable charging beyond the recommend 14.4V, just below to our battery's max of 14.6 Volts. 

My question is:  For those of you running the progressive dynamic controller (PD4045-CSV) with lithium batteries, how many volts is it charging your batteries when at 100%? You can look at your charging history to see your charging levels at 100%

• less than 14.4 volts ?
• 14.4 volts 
• 14.5 volts ?
• 14.6 volts ?
• more than 14.6 volts ?

At what voltage level do you get a high voltage alarm ?

 

Edited December 11 by taylor.coyote

[mossemi]

17 hours ago, taylor.coyote said:

My question is:  For those of you running the progressive dynamic controller (PD4045-CSV) with lithium batteries, how many volts is it charging your batteries when at 100%? You can look at your charging history to see your charging levels at 100%

I manually turn of the PD4045-CSV breaker @ the PD Power Center when charging is complete.

Batteries charging @ 34.86 Amps

 
Batteries completely charged, but still charging @ 0.50 Amps

 

Battery charger turned off @ breaker and showing batteries discharging @ -0.83 A

Mossey

[katanapilot]

On 12/9/2025 at 7:05 PM, Geronimo John said:

Both JD's 2017 and my 2018 had the 20 Amp Auto Transfer Switch with lead acid batteries from the factory.  When mine went south, the max in the line I could find in 2019 was the 20 amp.  So I split my shore power connection and added another 20 amp.  I put the A/C on this ATS as suggested by a fellow owner.  I figured it was an better solution. 

I am  VERY glad you posted about a 30 Amp being available.  Many owners have posted that OEM 20 Amp ATS's seem to have a short life span.  I see your point that if you have a 30 amp service, then all components in the 120 system must be able to live happily with 30 Amps.  It also eliminates having two each 20 Amp ATS units to do so.

Does anyone have an idea why we and others had 20 Amp ATS's installed?  John Davies post about changing out a failed one was the genesis of much of my info on the topic.

GJ  

 

Still confused.  If the shore power receptacle (30 amps) is wired to the transfer switch (either a 15 or 20 amp rated switch) in the earlier trailers - how was that acceptable?  One doesn't switch a 30 amp power source with a 15 or 20 amp switch.  That's my confusion.  

Our trailer has a 30 amp ATS fed by the two shore power receptacles.  That makes sense. 

[jd1923]

1 hour ago, katanapilot said:

Still confused.  If the shore power receptacle (30 amps) is wired to the transfer switch (either a 15 or 20 amp rated switch) in the earlier trailers - how was that acceptable?  One doesn't switch a 30 amp power source with a 15 or 20 amp switch.  That's m y confusion.  

Our trailer has a 30 amp ATS fed by the two shore power receptacles.  That makes sense. 

Yes, your conclusion makes sense!
Perhaps one more try will work... 😎

A 15 or 20A ATS can be used with an inverter when the inverter does not have a built-in ATS. It is used to switch between shore power and inverted power for a 15 or 20A circuit. Our Victron has a built-in ATS but the 2KW Xantrex inverter OTT originally installed did not (see pic, ATS in middle). An external 15A ATS was added to switch all circuits except A/C to use shore power when present or inverted power when not. Some Oliver owners added the 20 KISEA ATS to add switching for the A/C circuit.

The picture below shows the KISEA I installed for literally a few days before I decided on the Victron upgrade. Both ATS in the picture would switch between shore or inverted power. The KISEA for the A/C circuit and the OTT installed Xantrex ATS to switch the other circuits (microwave, outlets, etc.). These are NOT the main 30A ATS which is as follows:

The main ATS installed in most RVs is the PD5100 a 30A ATS. These must be/always are 30A, used mainly to switch between shore power and generator. On the Oliver it switches between the side and front 120VAC 30A Furrion shore power inlets.

Edited Thursday at 11:40 PM by jd1923

[taylor.coyote]

Mossemi, turning off the  PD4045-CSV breaker @ the PD Power is so simple. Of course, turn off the power feeds to your battery.