Loss of Water Pressure

[Mcmac]

Good afternoon folks,

We were able to take our new to us Ollie out this weekend. We received quite the surprise when we went to use the fresh water... it smelled bad... really bad.

So I googled and found that we needed to sanitize the fresh water tank. Followed the instructions and pulled bleach water in from the boondock port in the back. That worked fine. Following instructions, I ran the bleach water through all the faucets and then after 15 min attempted to drain the tank through the drain value. While a little bit of water would trickle out it was way too slow, so I closed the faucets inside and closed the drain value to normal up the system. 
At this point, I thought I'd just open the faucet and cycle the fresh water into the gray water tank. Unfortunately, I now have little to no water pressure in either of the faucets or in the toilet. The water pump seems to be running fine.

 

Any ideas on what I'm doing wrong or what may have happened to kill the water pressure?

 

Thanks for you help

 

Mike

[AndrewK]

Mike,

After putting the water valves in Boondocking mode to draw the bleach water through the rear port, did you change the valves back to the normal mode so, the pump pulls from the fresh water tank?

Andrew

[John E Davies]

You may have an airlock in the hose running to the pump. Normally a little air won’t hurt but a lot of air will cause complete loss of suction and pressure. The pump will run flat out and nothing else happens.  You need to: 

Close the valve going to the faucets.

Open the valve going back to the tank.

That will let the system flow freely, recirculating from tank straight back to tank with no restrictions, and should remove any air in the pump lines in a minute or two. 

While you are in there, turn off the system and remove your pump strainer/ filter to see if it is plugged with plastic shavings (construction debris). It is just forward of the pump assembly. This is pretty normal at first. One owner found a kink in the suction line to the pump was blocked by those shavings, he had to use a wire object to remove them.

Good luck.

PS, please add a signature with your hull number, it helps us to understand what systems are installed, since there are evolutionary changes through the years. Also, if you want to easily use those valves, label the direction of flow and where the lines go, like this (Hull 218) - yours might be different. I am a little surprised that they don’t do this at the factory.

John Davies

Spokane WA

Edited August 10, 2020 by John E Davies

[Overland]

Like Andrew, I suspect that you just have a valve turned wrong. Look on the underside of the hatch over the valves and there should be a diagram showing the correct orientation. If not, then your owners’ manual should have one.  If your pump is running constantly then it’s likely that it’s the fill valve on the lower right that’s wrong, and the pump is just cycling water back into the tank. 

If that doesn’t do the trick, then check the filter on the pump as it may be clogged. It’s the clear plastic container connected to the pump.

Another unlikely cause could be a broken valve.  And always a chance that there’s not actually water in the tank. 😝 

It’s no surprise that your tank drain just dripped - that seems to be a common problem that has been discussed here more than once. One good solution is to do just as you thought and just run the water into the grey tank. 

Edited August 10, 2020 by Overland

[Overland]

45 minutes ago, John E Davies said:

 

What’s the grey box on the right?  I don’t have one of those. 

[John E Davies]

23 minutes ago, Overland said:

What’s the grey box on the right?  I don’t have one of those. 

That is the moisture cover for the failure prone circuit board (igniter circuit) for the standard Suburban HWH. It failed once already a couple of months after delivery. That is a horrible location for it, right under a pressurized water hose, but at least it is easy to access if it fries again .....l  I just never got around to moving it to a more logical location ☹️
 

John Davies

Spokane WA

[Mcmac]

1 hour ago, AndrewK said:

Mike,

After putting the water valves in Boondocking mode to draw the bleach water through the rear port, did you change the valves back to the normal mode so, the pump pulls from the fresh water tank?

Andrew

Andrew,

 

Yes, put back into the normal mode where they were prior to pulling in the bleach.

 

Thanks,

Mike

[Mcmac]

1 hour ago, John E Davies said:

You may have an airlock in the hose running to the pump. Normally a little air won’t hurt but a lot of air will cause complete loss of suction and pressure. The pump will run flat out and nothing else happens.  You need to: 

Close the valve going to the faucets.

Open the valve going back to the tank.

That will let the system flow freely, recirculating from tank straight back to tank with no restrictions, and should remove any air in the pump lines in a minute or two. 

While you are in there, turn off the system and remove your pump strainer/ filter to see if it is plugged with plastic shavings (construction debris). It is just forward of the pump assembly. This is pretty normal at first. One owner found a kink in the suction line to the pump was blocked by those shavings, he had to use a wire object to remove them.

Good luck.

PS, please add a signature with your hull number, it helps us to understand what systems are installed, since there are evolutionary changes through the years. Also, if you want to easily use those valves, label the direction of flow and where the lines go, like this (Hull 218) - yours might be different. I am a little surprised that they don’t do this at the factory.

John Davies

Spokane WA

Thanks John... good info.

 

Mine is an early unit, hull 061. My pluming looks quite a bit different than the pic you've attached.

Your point thought about the airlock sounds like a strong possibility as it worked fine before pulling in the bleach and probably some air. I'll check it out, but it will be a few days before I get around to it.

Appreciate your suggestions.

 

Mike

[ScubaRx]

Mike, as your Oliver is one of the early ones, it likely has two 3-way valves instead of the 4 on-off valves of later builds. The is the original (as delivered) valves in our Hull # 050. Maybe this will help trouble shoot your valve positions.

This a photo of the later valve layout. They both do the same thing, but the factory altered their manufacturing plan.

I removed my manual valves and replaced them with electric ones. Now a flip of a switch takes me from "Normal" to "Auxiliary".

[Mcmac]

On 8/9/2020 at 9:06 PM, ScubaRx said:

Mike, as your Oliver is one of the early ones, it likely has two 3-way valves instead of the 4 on-off valves of later builds. The is the original (as delivered) valves in our Hull # 050. Maybe this will help trouble shoot your valve positions.

This a photo of the later valve layout. They both do the same thing, but the factory altered their manufacturing plan.

I removed my manual valves and replaced them with electric ones. Now a flip of a switch takes me from "Normal" to "Auxiliary".

Thanks Scuba,

Yes, my plumbing looks like the older version you've posted. I'll have to look into the electric valves you're using. Looks like a slick way to change from "normal" to "Aux" mode. Thanks for the info.

[Jairon]

On 8/9/2020 at 10:35 PM, John E Davies said:

That is the moisture cover for the failure prone circuit board (igniter circuit) for the standard Suburban HWH. It failed once already a couple of months after delivery.

Do you know if Suburban is still using the same boards on new units? We opted for the Suburban due to mechanical simplicity and ease of repair but if the thing is going to blow up every year we might consider switching to the Truma.

[Mike and Carol]

1 hour ago, Jairon said:

Do you know if Suburban is still using the same boards on new units? We opted for the Suburban due to mechanical simplicity and ease of repair but if the thing is going to blow up every year we might consider switching to the Truma.

Going on 5 years and no failure from our Suburban tank.  

[John E Davies]

20 hours ago, Jairon said:

Do you know if Suburban is still using the same boards on new units? We opted for the Suburban due to mechanical simplicity and ease of repair but if the thing is going to blow up every year we might consider switching to the Truma.

Do not buy a Truma if you want simple servicing! My suggestion is to get the Suburban, and buy a good aftermarket board for it, around $80. Replace the OEM board and keep the used one for a spare. It is tiny and takes up no space, you will most likely never need it. (Wrap it well and label it so a future owner will know what it is twenty years from now.😊) I do NOT know the current status, mine is four years old, you would need to research part numbers and other forums to see if there is a continuous failure history. More reading here, and please start a new thread if you learn anything interesting!
 

https://olivertraveltrailers.com/forums/topic/2036-suburban-hot-water-heater-failed-a-dealer-repair-story-and-lesson/

John Davies

Spokane WA

[Jairon]

7 minutes ago, John E Davies said:

More reading here, and please start a new thread if you learn anything interesting!

Thanks again for the great read! I'll stick with the Suburban. I'm scheduled for a March delivery date; if model year changes haven't been made public by then, I'd be happy to detail all of the them in a new thread.

A compendium of model year changes from the first Elite I/II sold to present day would be a fantastic resource for those interested in the history.

[Ray and Susan Huff]

7 hours ago, John E Davies said:

Do not buy a Truma if you want simple servicing! My suggestion is to get the Suburban, and buy a good aftermarket board for it, around $80. Replace the OEM board and keep the used one for a spare. It is tiny and takes up no space, you will most likely never need it. (Wrap it well and label it so a future owner will know what it is twenty years from now.😊) I do NOT know the current status, mine is four years old, you would need to research part numbers and other forums to see if there is a continuous failure history. More reading here, and please start a new thread if you learn anything interesting!
 

https://olivertraveltrailers.com/forums/topic/2036-suburban-hot-water-heater-failed-a-dealer-repair-story-and-lesson/

John Davies

Spokane WA

I agree about the Truma.  We have one in our motorhome.  While it works well, I have always worried, if it needed repair or replacement, Truma authorized service would be hard to find, at least on the West Coast.  I will say, it is easier to drain than the Suburban.  No tools needed.

I am opting for the standard water heater for our Elite II.  When we purchased our RV, we had no choice - it came only with the Truma Comfort Plus.  We like it, but the Truma Oliver is installing is the Truma Comfort - but not the Plus model.  The plus has a pump that recirculates the water in the faucet supply lines so you don't have to waste water waiting for the hot to get there.  Not having this feature would negate some of the benefit of on demand hot water in respect to water usage and grey water storage.  For this reason, and the lack of Truma service centers, the standard heater will do fine.  We only turn it on our water heater when hot water is needed.  We'll just have to remember to do that a bit sooner.  I also like that we can use shore power to heat water where the Truma is only LP powered.

[ScubaRx]

1 hour ago, Susan Huff said:

...the standard heater will do fine.  We only turn it on our water heater when hot water is needed.  We'll just have to remember to do that a bit sooner.  I also like that we can use shore power to heat water where the Truma is only LP powered.

I figured out what the optimum water temperature is (for us). I placed a temperature sensor from our suite under the insulation of the water heater tank. When we need hot water, I just watch the temp monitor until the water heater measures the correct temp and then we know it's ready to go. It takes a lot less time to heat up and doesn't use as much propane.

Full disclosure: I got that idea from topgun2.

[Patriot]

I vote for the Truma and I would not be surprised if it becomes a standard at some point with all new Oliver’s. (Out with the dated and in with new technology). So far we have not had any issues ours and we have a Truma tech close by our home in the event we do. Long hot showers are a wonderful thing!
Just another point of view. 😊 

Edited August 15, 2020 by Patriot

[Ray and Susan Huff]

13 hours ago, Patriot said:

I vote for the Truma and I would not be surprised if it becomes a standard at some point with all new Oliver’s. (Out with the dated and in with new technology). So far we have not had any issues ours and we have a Truma tech close by our home in the event we do. Long hot showers are a wonderful thing!
Just another point of view. 😊 

I agree that on demand hot water is the new technology, but I think both options should be retained.  On demand hot water is not a priority for all RV owners.  The fact that the standard heater is easily serviced by both technicians and owners is an important feature, as is the choice of power sources - LP/electric.

We have used both types and I could go either way, but have chosen the standard heater for the reasons stated above.  If the Truma Comfort Plus (our current RV water heater) had been an option, it might have been a tougher decision.  On demand hot water is not a top priority for us.  The fact that the Truma Comfort (not Plus) does not circulate the hot water through the supply lines, a feature which adds the benefit of water conservation with the Comfort Plus model,  gives me little reason to pay 1,300 - 1,549 to upgrade. 

I agree that someday on demand hot water may become the standard for RVs, but not until tech support becomes more readily available and price more affordable.  On demand makes more sense in a residential installation, and yet how many homes still have the tried and true tank water heaters? 

This being said, I feel it would behoove Oliver to offer the Truma Comfort Plus, or similar make/model as an option.  This would extend the benefit of not having to run water until the hot reaches the tap.  With limited onboard fresh and grey water capacity, every little bit helps.  Perhaps someone with a Truma can take a measurement and see, on average, how much water this would be.

[Patriot]

42 minutes ago, Susan Huff said:

I agree that on demand hot water is the new technology, but I think both options should be retained.  On demand hot water is not a priority for all RV owners.  The fact that the standard heater is easily serviced by both technicians and owners is an important feature, as is the choice of power sources - LP/electric.

We have used both types and I could go either way, but have chosen the standard heater for the reasons stated above.  If the Truma Comfort Plus (our current RV water heater) had been an option, it might have been a tougher decision.  On demand hot water is not a top priority for us.  The fact that the Truma Comfort (not Plus) does not circulate the hot water through the supply lines, a feature which adds the benefit of water conservation with the Comfort Plus model,  gives me little reason to pay 1,300 - 1,549 to upgrade. 

I agree that someday on demand hot water may become the standard for RVs, but not until tech support becomes more readily available and price more affordable.  On demand makes more sense in a residential installation, and yet how many homes still have the tried and true tank water heaters? 

This being said, I feel it would behoove Oliver to offer the Truma Comfort Plus, or similar make/model as an option.  This would extend the benefit of not having to run water until the hot reaches the tap.  With limited onboard fresh and grey water capacity, every little bit helps.  Perhaps someone with a Truma can take a measurement and see, on average, how much water this would be.

We had hot water in approx 8-9 seconds at the kitchen sink on our last trip. No complaints here. 😊 We just turn the Truma off even though it sips LP.
Agreed, in the end ya gotta go with what suits your camping style and needs. I do think the higher tech Truma system is an added value on eventual resale. And thinking forward, the truth is we all will sell at some point someday. Just another view point. 
 

 

Edited August 15, 2020 by Patriot

[SeaDawg]

7 hours ago, Patriot said:

And thinking forward, the truth is we all will sell at some point someday. Just another view point. 

Probably not me. I  love what  I have, 13 seasons in.   

I'll leave the sale problem to our daughter, if she doesn't want to keep it. 

Sherry 

[Overland]

There’s roughly 0.2 gallons in the line from the water heater to the shower and 0.1 to the kitchen sink. That doesn’t seem like much, but with two showers and some sink use, and on a four to five gallon a day budget like we use when boondocking now, that adds up to over a full day of water wasted in the course of a week. 

Edited August 16, 2020 by Overland