AGM Battery Mount Problem

[rideandfly]

Maverick and Mossey,

Appreciate the information.

Like I mentioned earlier, will post photos of the new tray from Oliver along with differences in old and new trays.

This thread has some good battery tray info! 👍

[JRK]

I think I agree with Mike - this is an Oliver issue, either design, or choice of battery (battery size). A battery slide out compartment is standard in tens of thousands of vehicles. Commercial trucks use them.  I checked the batteries weekly on my fire apparatus - all had batteries mounted in a slide out, without ever having a chafing problem. The batteries are not mounted on a solid platform. It is foolish to have a protruding bolt that would contact the battery exterior surface. 

I currently do expert witness/investigations that involve factory and design defect evaluations. Without seeing the issue in person and doing a proper evaluation, it is difficult to assess, but it sure sounds as though this is a manufacturing and/or design problem. Or use of an improper battery that does not fit the slides, when looking at the damage on the exterior surface. 

The proper battery sized battery, dimensionally, should be used rather than attempting to provide a patch fix. The damage on the bottom of the battery seems to be caused by protrusions that should not be there, that need to be removed. Don't patch it, or treat the symptoms. Fix the cause.

Of course this is based upon photos and discussion, as I won't get my Oliver until March. There are many issues to evaluate, I am finding out, that seem to be design and possible manufacturing miscues.

[Mike and Carol]

On 12/14/2020 at 7:56 PM, mossemi said:

Mike, this picture concerns me.  I suspect the battery to inverter cables have been rubbing in the holes out of the battery box.  They should be inspected.  Also check the red 6 AWG wire I circled, it looks like it may be damaged.  It is either the Progressive Dynamics battery charger wire or the Blue Sky Charge Controller wire.

I know the Blue Sky CC is a MPPT type controller, but I don’t know which model it is and if it supports LiFePO4 batteries.  You should verify that before buying LiFePO4 batteries or plan on changing the CC.

Mossey

The 6AWG wire was definitely damaged from being pinched behind the tray.  My grommet had worked itself lose but no damage to the cables.  There was a lot of dried battery acid under all four batteries and some wet acid under the back right battery that had the hole from the strap hook.  The old AGM batteries are sitting on the floor in my garage for now until I dispose of them.  2 Battle Born lithium’s will arrive on Tuesday and the upgraded PD on Monday.  Removed all cables except the two +/- cables from the battery box.  I still need to treat the bare metal on my battery tray.  Blue Sky controller is reprogrammed waiting for the new batteries. 

[mossemi]

My 4/0 negative battery cable insulation was rubbed flat where my cable gland had failed.  I tried to reuse the original gland, but every time I opened and closed the battery tray the gland nut would pop off.  So I ordered and install a new gland and the same thing happened again.  I finally came to the conclusion that the nylon threads were not holding up to the flex of the 4/0 cable.  So I ordered the one below.  And let me caution you, it takes three hands and persistence to replace those glands if needed.  If you do replace the gland, just remove the small glands since you have already removed the 6 AWG cables.  That will simplify the replacement.

Mossey

[ScubaRx]

10 hours ago, Mike and Carol said:

 I still need to treat the bare metal on my battery tray.  Blue Sky controller is reprogrammed waiting for the new batteries. 

Mike, I recommend that you plug those vent holes I see peeking through the bottom or you battery tray. I can cut you some fiberglass plugs the right thickness to fit them if you like. Just drop them into the backside of the door and glue with some two-part epoxy. I also recommend insulating the inside of the door with some closed cell foam.  I bought one of these at Dicks Sporting Goods. They are exactly the right thickness to fit the inside of the battery hatch. There is enough to insulate the basement hatch also.  I used contact cement to attach. Just make yourself a pattern out of heavy construction paper or cardboard and cut to fit.

[Mike and Carol]

22 minutes ago, ScubaRx said:

Mike, I recommend that you plug those vent holes I see peeking through the bottom or you battery tray. I can cut you some fiberglass plugs the right thickness to fit them if you like. Just drop them into the backside of the door and glue with some two-part epoxy. I also recommend insulating the inside of the door with some closed cell foam.  I bought one of these at Dicks Sporting Goods. They are exactly the right thickness to fit the inside of the battery hatch. There is enough to insulate the basement hatch also.  I used contact cement to attach. Just make yourself a pattern out of heavy construction paper or cardboard and cut to fit.

Steve, plugs would be great.  I don’t have any white fiberglass around and have been thinking about how to plug those holes.  I do have some of that foam rubber matting with the puzzle sides for joining to other mats that I was going to use to insulate.  It’s about 5/8” thick so would need to fit inside the weather stripping.  I might stop by Dicks this weekend.  I should insulate my basement door too!  Mike

[ScubaRx]

I have plenty of genuine Oliver Fiberglass panel that is the perfect thickness that I cut from our propane cover during my mod to create storage behind the propane tanks.

If anyone else wants/needs a set let me know via PM.

Edited January 1, 2021 by ScubaRx

[John E Davies]

I am trying to understand why you would feel the need to plug each door vent hole with an epoxied fiberglass plug..... instead of simply adding a disc of foam rubber with RTV sealer/ adhesive. Are you also removing the outer chrome grills and blending in the areas with white gel coat? If that is the case I would just order a replacement door without any holes. If you are leaving the grills in place, epoxy might make their future removal a lot harder.

A camp pad from Dick’s will work, but does anyone know its R value? A single layer of thin bubble foil insulation is R1. A 1” rigid (and fire retardant) foam board from the box store is R5. That is what I plan to use.

Comments?

John Davies

Spokane WA

 

Edited January 1, 2021 by John E Davies

[Mike and Carol]

1 hour ago, John E Davies said:

I am trying to understand why you would feel the need to plug each door vent hole with an epoxied fiberglass plug..... instead of simply adding a disc of foam rubber with RTV sealer/ adhesive. Are you also removing the outer chrome grills and blending in the areas with white gel coat? If that is the case I would just order a replacement door without any holes. If you are leaving the grills in place, epoxy might make their future removal a lot harder.

A camp pad from Dick’s will work, but does anyone know its R value? A single layer of thin bubble foil insulation is R1. A 1” rigid (and fire retardant) foam board from the box store is R5. That is what I plan to use.

The only reason to use Oliver fiberglass plugs is to color match.  You can see the color through the grill, for me it’s just aesthetics. Like I said, I was looking at other options but if some nice white fiberglass plugs can do the job, why not?  I’m not removing the grills and have no intention of replacing the door.  As far as insulation, I’m undecided.  I might use what I have on hand or get something different, just haven’t had time to look.  It’s been a busy few days getting to where I am now.  Mike

[Geronimo John]

On 12/17/2020 at 12:12 PM, mjrendon said:

@ mjrendon

"Do they slip over time?"

I have used them for many years and only once did I have slippage.  It was for a VERY thin insert into sheet metal. 

These inserts have two routes of not slipping. 

• First, they are splined.  The crushing action of installation causes them to expand against the hole you drilled.  Hence very thin metal will not have much for the splines to "engage". 
• Secondly, the insert flange is pulled quite hard against the metal.  If you fail to crush the insert fully, and by that I mean a lot of force then the insert could have a loose fitting and could slip that way.  

I recommend you test one on something that you don't care about.  If you mess it up, toss it back into your metal scrap pile.   My learning curve was installing four inserts through the roof of my Prius V for roof racks.  Messed one up and had a devil of a time clearing the insert as I did not want to take apart the head liner!  

For smaller inserts, it is possible to strip out the insert with a long handled tool.  Such was my case on the Prius V roof.

if you are using them on an application that you don't want leakage, just silicone the insert underside before installing, add your bolt and silicone those edges as well.

 

Quote

"Do they slip over time?

 

 

 

Edited January 2, 2021 by Geronimo John

[rideandfly]

Received a new battery tray from Oliver. New tray is over 6 pounds heavier than original unit.

The battery straps connect in the same fashion on both trays.

New unit on right:

Old unit:

New unit:

Same footprint and bolt pattern on both units:

New unit top has larger/stronger bearing/slide assemblies:

 

Edited January 5, 2021 by rideandfly

[rideandfly]

Plan to sandwich 1/8" X 4" neoprene rubber between battery tray rails and fiberglass. Only using two 12V AGM type 27 batteries, so have plenty of room to place 1/8" X 4" UHMW plastic between batteries and tray to protect battery from metal hooks on straps. Secured 1/8 UHMW plastic on each side with one machine screw and tinnerman type nut that will not contact batteries.

 

 

[Maverick]

RideandFly:  your replacement tray sure looks like it is a better constructed tray than the original.  When I replaced my battery tray a couple years ago it was the same replacement tray as the original.

Are you going to remain with the AGM batteries or upgrade to the lithium?  Currently my Torjan T105 wet cells are in great shape; I have no plans to upgrade to the lithium; at the present time there are to many issues with the lithium.

[rideandfly]

Maverick,

The new battery tray is 6.8 pounds heavier than Ollie's original tray installed 2015. It has more rivets, heavier slide/bearings, taller overall tray, and dual latches. Even the latches are secured by additional rivets. It's very robust design compared to Ollie's LE2 original tray.

Honestly believe everyone with a tray of the same vintage as our old unit should closely inspect their tray at least every 5 years for corrosion and loose rivets.

Temped to go with Lithium batteries, but have not made a decision, yet. Probably have a couple years life left on the 12V AGM batteries.

 

 

[John E Davies]

How much $ for the new slide assembly? Anybody who has had almost 300 pounds of AGMs riding in the old one should certainly look closely for failures. I am replacing my four, with two 29 pound lithiums. What a tremendous weight savings, and a huge amount of stress removed from the tray.....

Are you going to carry any stuff in the unused space near the door? Maybe mount a plastic ammo box, if it will fit?

 

John Davies

Spokane WA

Edited January 6, 2021 by John E Davies

[rideandfly]

John,

The 14"X21" Morryde 300 pound capacity LE2 battery tray from Oliver cost $195.48 plus $35 for packaging & shipping.  Use various size Pelican cases for storage of various items, but they are pricey.

Edited January 6, 2021 by rideandfly

[John E Davies]

3 hours ago, rideandfly said:

The 14"X21" Morryde 300 pound capacity LE2 battery tray from Oliver cost $195.48 plus $35 for packaging & shipping. 

Thanks, I suspect that it is a special design made just for Ollies. They make a similar one in steel, but it is sideways. And quite a bit cheaper. around $122 at Home Depot.... Does yours have a MORryde part number? 

It sure would be nice if the Ollie factory would drop ship to an owner straight from the distributor. It would save on the extra shipping and handling cost.

Thanks,

John Davies

Spokane WA

[Mike and Carol]

Finished up mounting the batteries this afternoon.   Couldn’t have done it without the help of fellow Ollie owner, Ken Cvacho, @mountainoliver.

Edited January 6, 2021 by Mike and Carol
Photo Orientation!

[rideandfly]

John,

My battery tray from Oliver does not have a Morryde part number marked or stamped on it.

Before buying the tray from Oliver, checked out the Morryde website and found a 14"X21" battery tray assembly. From what I can see on their site it has a single latch and 250 pound capacity with part #SP60-43 and available for less $ from different sources. The battery tray from Oliver has 300 pound capacity with dual latch system.

Sliding Utility Tray | MORryde

[rideandfly]

3 hours ago, Mike and Carol said:

Finished up mounting the batteries this afternoon. 

 

Mike, Looking great!

 

[Mike and Carol]

Here’s the final installation.  Added a battery cut off switch on a spacer block I made out of PVC board.  Used some thin foam to cover the door and some thicker foam that fits inside the weatherstripping. Plugged the vent holes with fiberglass plugs from Scubarx.  Thanks to Ken Cvacho for the technical expertise and Steve Landrum for the plugs and advice.  It was an Oliver community effort.

Before:

 

After:

Edited January 26, 2021 by Mike and Carol

[SeaDawg]

5 minutes ago, Mike and Carol said:

.  It was an Oliver community effort.

And, it looks lovely!

 

[mjrendon]

Very nice!  I like that the ground is switched.

Edited January 27, 2021 by mjrendon

[rideandfly]

6 hours ago, Mike and Carol said:

Here’s the final installation.  Added a battery cut off switch on a spacer block I made out of PVC board.  Used some thin foam to cover the door and some thicker foam that fits inside the weatherstripping. Plugged the vent holes with fiberglass plugs from Scubarx.  Thanks to Ken Cvacho for the technical expertise and Steve Landrum for the plugs and advice.  It was an Oliver community effort.

Mike,

Beautiful installation!

Here's the new tray assembly installed with two 12V group 27 AGM batteries and Renogy Solar Controller:

[Maverick]

11 hours ago, rideandfly said:

Here's the new tray assembly installed with two 12V group 27 AGM batteries and Renogy Solar Controller:

Bill:  were the mounting holes on the new battery tray the same as the old tray?  Nice looking installation; what brand of group 27 AGM batteries are you using?