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Time to think about options


TexasGuy
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So my build sheet will be due before I know it with a late March production date and starting to seriously look at options and hoping to hear from recent buyers as well as those with more experience in the Oliver.   I am still deciding between Elite or Elite II.  
 

1. Awning - From my understanding the upgrade gets you a wind sensor, remote and canvas material.  The standard awning is still powered and a vinyl top.  Based on my prior rentals I pulled in awning when out for the day and at night so wind sensor is not a big deal for me.  If you did upgrade was the canvas material a better choice ?

2. On the Elite II it looks like you can get a solar option with wet batteries and save about $500 over AGM package. Is the AGM performance worth the difference?  I appreciate you have less maintenance with AGM but is topping off wet cell batteries really that hard?  Right now the lithium jump just isn’t worth it until I get more time in RV.  
 

3. Truma water heater. So 70% of time will just be me and I always take a navy shower in RVs to save on water.  Anyone with standard heater have issues with enough hot water?

4. While composting toilet is interesting not sure I want to take plunge yet. I will ask Oliver but this feels like upgrade that can be done later.   Thoughts?

5. Countertops   That seems like a lot of money to upgrade counters. Anyone with std white have regrets?

6.  Wi-Fi/cell boosters- can these be sourced afterwards and not permanently mounted?  With a mobile hotspot device are they even needed?

Any specific options you have found to be must haves.  I’m sure these have all been asked before and sorry to ask again but having in one place to reference is helpful to me  

Thanks!

 

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2021 Legacy Elite II Hull #807 - 2021 F150 w/ 3.5L EB and max tow package 

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Posted (edited)

Some of the answers will actually depend, at least somewhat,  on which model you choose. And, your camping style.

Can't comment on the awning, as we have had two manual Fiamma awnings. First vinyl top lasted almost ten years, with that brand. 

The battery compartment in the Elite is smaller, and tighter to work in than in the Elite II.  I'm a big fan of AGM, for many reasons, but $500 is $500, and would almost pay for two Agm batteries,  later. You're in Texas, so cold weather storage  isn't a huge issue. We started with the included flooded batteries, and upgraded when they died. If you opt for the flooded, do set up a reminder on your phone calendar to check the fluids monthly. Do you get anything else in equipment with the $500 upgrade?

In the Elite, you barely have any countertop in the kitchen, and the tabletop is actually quite nice in the leathered black. Our original white still looks nice, 13 years in. The Elite II has more countertop showing, so that's a matter of personal aesthetics.

When we lost our original water heater, we replaced it with a Girard instantaneous.  It's really nice , but I don't know if I'd do it again. Boondocking, you can fire up the standard water heater for say, 10 minutes, get the water to a comfy temp, and just shower without the mixer. In an electric site, you can use the free power and save your gas with the standard water heater. It's a pricey coin flip, especially if you typically camp solo. You do have the anode in the standard to attend to annually, so a tiny bit more attention. But, not a big deal.

We've never had a cell booster, though I  tried a highly-rated mobile one, and returned it.  Problem is, you have to have some kind of a signal to boost.  We carry two cell phones, instead. One gsm, one CDMA, and if there is a signal, one of us gets it, and shares it via Hotspot. 

It sounds like you're leaning toward solar, and that's really my one and only must have. It allows us so much more freedom in site choices, and we almost never opt for sites with power, preferring the quiet of out if the way places.

We've not yet had a composting toilet.

Be prepared.  You'll get lots if opinions.

 

 

Edited by SeaDawg
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1) Awning - I have 2 domestic awnings, (camp side electric), street side manual.  I think the regular electrics now offered would be fine without upgrading.

2) Battery Choices:  Here's an interesting article (and video) about Lead Acid, vs. AGM, vs Lithium Batteries to help you decide:

https://mortonsonthemove.com/best-rv-battery-test-results/

For our use case we are trying to get the longest run time out of my battery for boondocking, so I'm planning to upgrade to Lithium, and added solar.

3) We have a truma.  Pro - it sips fuel, weighs less as it's not a 6gal tank,  Con - you still need to run out about a liter of water out to get to the HOT water but then it's continuous.
We also take navy showers...I suppose the standard 6GAL water heater has some advantages...but I'll let owners with those chime in.

4) That change can be done later for sure. A lot depends on how you plan to camp. For the composter, there's no current way have it direct urine from the Composting Toilet into the Black Tank so you'll still need to dispose of urine on a timely basis. The weakness with a standard toilet comes if you plan to boondock for longer times.  For two of us we can make it about 4-6 days before we are full on the black tank.  If we had a composter we could likely go 2 weeks.  

5) We have only seen one trailer with standard white and it looked great as well.  

6) Again a lot depends upon your specific mobile data use case.  Cell Boosters vs. WIFI Boosters 

The newer cell systems all use MIMO technology so your hot spot device (or phone) actually has multiple antennas built in and they have wider bandwidth because they use signal diversity to combine together the "best signal" possible.

If the "cell booster" antenna is a single channel small whip, it may only be useful when the signal levels are extremely low...otherwise your device will have better BW running off it's internal MIMO Antenna.

Here's a good article from "The internet resource center" on this topic.  

https://www.rvmobileinternet.com/guides/mobile-cellular-boosters/

The WIFI booster can also have a "modem" installed in it and that would make it also a CELL booster in function.
If I had it to do over, I would simply buy the WIFI Booster, and put in the Modem for my carrier (AT&T)...
That kills both the WIFI and cellular boost capability and it also provides a plug in for hotspot's via USB input.
(So you can put your phone or hotspot into that wifi booster, and create a VPN for your campsite.)

 

MUST Have - I wouldn't be without solar.  

There are so many things that solar can provide, one is the ability to charge your batteries while you are in transit.
Most of today's 7 pin connectors only drive about 3-5 amps of current, so they can only KEEP your batteries charged, but they don't really recharge while you drive.
(In the worst case, if you drive with your fridge on DC, you'll actually get to camp with batteries much lower than when you left.  Solar helps a ton keep those house batteries charged.  Another other option if you don't have solar is to add a dc to dc charger unit. that directly connects to cables your vehicles battery back to Dc to Dc charger which would be near your trailer batteries.

 

Final take:  
If I were buying right now...I would

1) Buy standard awnings but put on both sides of the trailer (key to controlling heat in southern locations)
2) Buy as much solar and lithium as I could afford.
3) Buy the WIFI booster but add the modem inside 

In the long run those investments will pay back mightily improving your camping experience.

Hull 505 - Galway Girl

 

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TexasGuy - 

Many of us have wrestled with the same items as you are dealing with.  To some degree I very much agree with SeaDawg - it depends on your camping style and where you tend to camp.  Having said that - 

1.  I didn't have as many choices as you did on the subject of awnings, but, I chose to go simple.  Even with wind sensors I would not trust that sensor to protect what could be a fairly expensive repair in the event the sensor was not fast enough or simply failed outright.  Also, since I rarely camp in the desert I have not missed getting the streetside awning.

2.  There is no question in my mind about solar since it gives me so much additional freedom and choice.  However, that is not the question you asked.  I chose the standard flooded wet cell batteries with the addition of the watering system.  My thinking at the time was similar to yours - just how much time can it take to add water to those batteries - and I've found that indeed I was correct, it really doesn't take much time at all.  Without the watering system I think that I'd have a different answer due to the sheer number of cells and the ability to reach those cells towards the back of the battery tray.  I don't remember the numbers, but, with the addition of the watering system, the price difference was not as much as $500.  But, even for a couple hundred I would have made the same decision as I did.  Both AGM's and flooded wet cells should last 5 to 7 or 8 years with good maintenance.  Hopefully at that time the price or alternatives will be even cheaper than they are today.  You might also want to take a look at the "Lithium vs others" thread for a discussion about the long range costs of the various battery types in today's market (primarily this discussion only talks about the batteries themselves and not the associated costs of other "supporting" items that you will probably need to run or maintain lithium).

3.  I got the standard water heater.  That sure is a bunch of money to upgrade to the Truma.  When I'm camping all I have to do is to remember to turn the water heater on ten minutes or so before I want hot water.  If I forget, then all I have to do is wait the ten minutes.  It really isn't like I'm rushing off somewhere and there is always something to do during that ten minutes - perhaps a glass of wine?  Then, I simply turn it off - I NEVER just let it stay on since there is no reason to heat water just in case.

4.  I also stayed with the standard toilet.  Again, I simply could not justify the cost and already knew that emptying the grey and black tanks are no big deal.  Add to this the fact that the Natures Head sits higher off the floor, it was a no brainer for me.  Yes, from what I hear, composting toilets do save a bit of water.  But, there are fairly easy ways around that issue too - portable tanks (heck, even the Nature's Head has a portable tank of sorts), "Double Duty" bags for instance.

5.  Contrary to the "saving money" issues above, I did get the fiber granite option.  I believe that this is a matter of taste and felt that the standard interior was simply not to my liking.  This was a fairly simple way to give my Oliver a bit of decoration without having to tax my lack of decorating skills.  Given that both the standard and optional surfaces are made of basically the same material I don't see where one would be "better" than the other.  However, with the fiber granite, should you damage the surface below the pantry, or on top of the fridge, or on top of the night stand, these can easily be replaced.

6.  I think that ctshort09's comments are good.  Certainly do not get the WiFi option if you plan on using it in commercial campgrounds since these places simply do not have enough "bandwidth" to satisfy all campers demand.  Since I do not have a cell phone, I rely heavily on email for communication while I'm on the road.  I was/am surprised at a benefit of the WiFi booster that I had not considered prior to getting my Oliver - how much I use that booster while actually traveling from place to place.  No longer do I have to cart my tablet or laptop into McDonalds, Starbucks, Wendy's, WalMart, Lowes, etc.  I simply pull into the parking lot and with my WiFi booster I've got all the signal I need to send and download email and/or get to the internet.

Good luck with your decisions.  What is good for one is not good for all.  Just take a hard look at what you intend to do with your Oliver and let that be your general guide.  

Bill

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As usual - lots of experience backed replies. Oliver owners love to share.

On awnings - I love the shade protection - but honestly, they are just not as usable in real time. The weather plays havoc on them - as long as your in camp - great - leave for 5 minutes (or retire for the evening)  - and the wind sneaks up and tears them off....... I originally order port and starboard awnings, and cut that to just the one. Durability is not a strong point. Additional supports and tie downs are the hot ticket to keeping them healthy - at least where the wind likes to blow. I can't imagine trying to deal with two of them. 

The Truma - could go either way - I have the Truma- it does save me water and energy over time. Cost effective - ask me in 10 years...

Bill is spot on with the counter upgrades. 

The composting toilet - my take is       -     its all about how you use the Oliver - stick to RV sites with full hook ups - not worth the change - like to boondock- stay off the beaten path - is a very nice thing to have .. I like my Natures head - it fits our camping profile. 

I have no use for the phone/WIFI/rear camera upgrades - Tech moves to quickly for me - I add as it improves. But I try to get away from that need in any case. 

Solar - for me - it is too early in the product/design cycle to do anything but the AGM's. Oliver does a good job with the actual install - adding LI later - as it improves seems the better decision. 

With my set up, AGM solar, compost, 30lb propane - we can stay off grid almost indefinably - water is transportable and easily pumped in, the toilet -similar - no need to move to empty, With no need for AC - don't need shore power - or get a small gen set. Propane is transportable. Honestly - this is why we  enjoy our Oliver - it frees up possibility, we can go anywhere- within reason- and stay as long as we desire. Freedom. 

Good luck.

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18 hours ago, SeaDawg said:

Some of the answers will actually depend, at least somewhat,  on which model you choose. And, your camping style.

Can't comment on the awning, as we have had two manual Fiamma awnings. First vinyl top lasted almost ten years, with that brand. 

The battery compartment in the Elite is smaller, and tighter to work in than in the Elite II.  I'm a big fan of AGM, for many reasons, but $500 is $500, and would almost pay for two Agm batteries,  later. You're in Texas, so cold weather storage  isn't a huge issue. We started with the included flooded batteries, and upgraded when they died. If you opt for the flooded, do set up a reminder on your phone calendar to check the fluids monthly. Do you get anything else in equipment with the $500 upgrade?

In the Elite, you barely have any countertop in the kitchen, and the tabletop is actually quite nice in the leathered black. Our original white still looks nice, 13 years in. The Elite II has more countertop showing, so that's a matter of personal aesthetics.

When we lost our original water heater, we replaced it with a Girard instantaneous.  It's really nice , but I don't know if I'd do it again. Boondocking, you can fire up the standard water heater for say, 10 minutes, get the water to a comfy temp, and just shower without the mixer. In an electric site, you can use the free power and save your gas with the standard water heater. It's a pricey coin flip, especially if you typically camp solo. You do have the anode in the standard to attend to annually, so a tiny bit more attention. But, not a big deal.

We've never had a cell booster, though I  tried a highly-rated mobile one, and returned it.  Problem is, you have to have some kind of a signal to boost.  We carry two cell phones, instead. One gsm, one CDMA, and if there is a signal, one of us gets it, and shares it via Hotspot. 

It sounds like you're leaning toward solar, and that's really my one and only must have. It allows us so much more freedom in site choices, and we almost never opt for sites with power, preferring the quiet of out if the way places.

We've not yet had a composting toilet.

Be prepared.  You'll get lots if opinions.

 

 

Appreciate insight.   From what I can tell on spec sheet the $500 gets you 4 6V AGMs versus wet cell batteries.   In both cases you get same solar setup on roof and 2000kw inverter.   

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TexasGuy,

I highly suggest after market Lithium batteries.  We went with Battle Born and have solar.  The conversation is simple.  All you need to start is a shut based battery monitor, one battery and you will have more usable power than any other two battery system and two Lithium batteies would be better than any other four battery system.

For more information, check out Battle Born’s white paper on the subject and Morton On The Moves recent YouTube video.

Andrew

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2019 Legacy Elite II Hull #468 "California Burrito" | 2018 BMW x5 35d 

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1. Awning - I would go with two awnings so that you have shade on both sides.  I think the electrical would be nice, but did hear that they sometimes close at the slightest wind.

2. I had the AGM batteries, but just replaced with two 150 amp hour Life Blue lithium for ~ $3000.  I really like them, can go for days in the rain without worrying about running out of power (think I could go 7 days if need be, but if it is raining that much I am going home).  And, they include a Battery Management System that connects to your cell phone via blue-tooth.  

3. Truma water heater - we have the Truma, really like it.  My wife and I can shower back to back without running out of hot water, and it doesn't take 6 gallons to fill it.  

4. composting toilet -  I agree, interesting, but I am not interested for a variety of reasons. 

5. Countertops   That seems like a lot of money to upgrade counters. Anyone with std white have regrets? ---  Personal choice. 

6.  Wi-Fi/cell boosters- can these be sourced afterwards and not permanently mounted?  With a mobile hotspot device are they even needed? --- I would go with sourcing afterwards.  I tried one from Amazon and found it did very little for me.  Plus, we tend to camp in places where there is absolutely no signal, nothing to boost.  

7.  Solar - I didn't buy the installed panels, instead I bought an 80 watt portable.  It will recharge the batteries in one day of sunshine, plus, I have the lithium batteries that don't need to be charged every day anyway.  The roof top solar doesn't work when you are under a tree, in the shade.  Solar panels are also very sensitive to the angle of the sun.   Difference from perpendicular to 45 degrees can be 1/2 the output.  The portable was abut $350, much cheaper.  Lastly, if you put a cover on your Oliver when not using it the solar panels tend to rip the cover.   One plus for roof top is that if you store the camper outside where there is no power you do have a way to keep the batteries charged.

Any specific options you have found to be must haves.  I’m sure these have all been asked before and sorry to ask again but having in one place to reference is helpful to me. -----   One cheap one is the shower curtain in the bathroom.  Allows you to shower and not get the entire bathroom wet. 

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Posted (edited)
59 minutes ago, DanWestbrook said:

  Solar - I didn't buy the installed panels, instead I bought an 80 watt portable.  It will recharge the batteries in one day of sunshine, plus, I have the lithium batteries that don't need to be charged every day anyway.  The roof top solar doesn't work when you are under a tree, in the shade.  Solar panels are also very sensitive to the angle of the sun.   Difference from perpendicular to 45 degrees can be 1/2 the output.  The portable was abut $350, much cheaper.  Lastly, if you put a cover on your Oliver when not using it the solar panels tend to rip the cover.   One plus for roof top is that if you store the camper outside where there is no power you do have a way to keep the batteries charged.

Our rooftop solar is most advantageous on the road, and in storage, and we get some charge even if camped in partial sun through the day. 

We also supplement this with (currently) 100 watts of portable, when our rooftop panels are shaded.

80 watts of portable wouldn't keep my batteries charged, but, we have a dc danfoss/secop fridge to add into the equation of shoulder season camping.

Edited by SeaDawg
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I've been wondering if a 100amp portable solar panel is sufficient to keep lithium batteries charged as we often camp in shaded campgrounds.  And I agree with the solar panels helping recharge batteries during transit.

Ray and Susan Huff

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1 hour ago, Ray and Susan Huff said:

I've been wondering if a 100amp portable solar panel is sufficient to keep lithium batteries charged as we often camp in shaded campgrounds.  And I agree with the solar panels helping recharge batteries during transit.

I know you meant 100 watt portable solar panel.  To get an idea of what 100 watts of solar is capable of some simple math can be applied.  At 100 watts, the max amps you will get in theory is ~5 (100 watts / 18 volts).  So if you had 6 hours of "great" sun on your panel, you would theoretically produce ~30 amp hours (5 amps x 6 hours).  In practice, these numbers could be lower - maybe a lot lower depending on sun angles, etc. - but it gives you a ballpark.

So for this example, no matter what type of batteries you have (as long as they are more than 30 Ah), a 100 watt portable solar will be sufficient to keep your batteries charged if you only use a max of 30 amp hours per day.  In the grand scheme of things, a 100 watt panel doesn't seem like much when compared to a 400 Ah battery setup, but it all adds up!  If you add it to the existing 340 watts (340 watts / 18 volts = 19 amps), then you can produce 144 amp hours in 6 hours of full sunlight (24 amps x 6 hours).  🙂

On an average day, do you know how many Amp Hours you typically use?  We can keep it around 100 Ah per day without the convection oven / stove or any other inefficient components.  Easy to double that if we aren't paying attention or not worrying about it because we have a generator and want a nice oven cooked meal.

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I agree, a 100 watt portable panel kept in bright light ALL DAY LONG in summer would be a useful bonus. But a typical unit with onboard (crippled) PWM controller can only be placed about 20 feet away due to voltage losses in the wires , so finding that long exposure of light will be problematic sometimes, like with a site under tree cover. And if you are not parked under any shade, the roof panels will provide way more current and you don’t have to fuss with them four + times a day, and lock them to a rock to avoid theft.

A 100+ watt portable panel with a 20 to 30% higher efficiency MPPT controller ($100+) mounted inside next to the trailer batteries would be much better, since without the added voltage drop the cable can be a whole lot longer. A 200 watt portable wired this way would be REALLY useful, if you have room in your TV to store it and are comfortable moving that weight. But a 200w one is $$$ especially with an additional larger MPPT controller... and you also need to factor in the cost of long heavy gauge extension cables outside. 

You can go cheap and buy a no-name panel and controller from Amazon, if you are unconcerned with its build quality, performance and follow up customer support. Considering that most panels have warranties measured in decades, I think this would be a big mistake. I got an excellent Renogy 100w folder kit for Christmas ($230) and plan to eventually wire in a Victron 20 amp MPPT controller inside. If I can find the time - there are lots of projects right now.

https://www.renogy.com/solar-panels/folding-solar-suitcases/

John Davies

Spokane WA

Edited by John E Davies

"Mouse":  2017 Legacy Elite II NARV (Not An RV) Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/john-e-davies-how-to-threads-and-tech-articles-links/

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My delivery date is later in 2021 but have been thinking about options since placing my deposit.  Here are my thoughts and decisions relative to your points above.  Hoping input from another person in similar situation as you helps.

 

1. Awning - Choice: standard, curbside only.  Rationale: If I spent a lot of time in warmer climates ( e.g. SE) I would consider standard streetside awning as well.  Pro features are not worth it to me and the $ can be used better elsewhere

2. Solar - Choice: Solar Pro package.  Rationale: 6V AGM batteries can run well over $250/ea and a group of four hold many more Ah that (4) 12v wet cell batteries.  The additional Ah for $500 was a no brainer for me.  I also have solar on my TV with a battery bank in the bed which powers my Dometic compressor fridge/freezer.  Even though I plan to mostly dry camp, the additional cost of Lithium is a no-go for me

3. Truma water heater. Choice: Standard water heater.  Rationale: mostly will be dry camping so on-demand is of little value to me.  If I spent most of my time with Full hookups I might reconsider, but likely would still stay with tried and true, old school tank water heater.  Easy maintenance and easy and less costly to replace.

4. Toilet - Choice: Composting toilet.  Rationale: mostly dry camping in the boonies so can go longer before having to empty.  Plus, I want to utilize the rear bumper storage area nor more than the few contaminated items relating to black water dump.

5. Countertops - Choice: Standard white counters.  Rationale: I prefer the clean, white look.  My plan is to replace the dinette table, nightstand top and both narrow counters with live edge hardwood at a later date.  The counters will remain white.  

6.  Wi-Fi/cell boosters - Choice: neither chosen as options on my Elite II.  Rationale: I have a hard time having them drill more holes in the top of my trailer to place technoloigy items which will be outpaced by replacement technology soon thereafter.  I have a WiFi Ranger which I will mount to the rack on my TV, but likely will not use it as the cell plan I have is pretty much unlimited everything.

I wish Oliver would entertain installation of compressor fridges.  The fridge in my trailer will get light use as I have two dometic chest compressor fridges which sip Amps from Solar.  Its a shame to take up space with the installed three-way but it will get used to store pantry items and sauces, etc.  The compressor fridge option would also allow for the two vent panels and corresponding holes in the side of the trailer to be eliminated which would give a cleaner look.  I asked Oliver and they said they would not entertain this option.  I may end up yanking the 3-way later and installing my own Engel or other 12v compressor fridge once my chest dometics die off.

 

Please let us know what you decide.

 

 

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