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torque values for lug nuts


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57 minutes ago, Geronimo John said:

inevitable galvanic corrosion between the AL and Steel

The Aluminum wheel alloy (356) and steel inserts are so close on the galvanic series that a potential for corrosion is more than offset by the clamping force advantage the inserts provide.  Personally, I wouldn't run an alloy wheel on a trailer that did not have steel inserts.😃

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52 minutes ago, bugeyedriver said:

Whatever torque you chose for your aluminum rims, be sure to re-torque them after 50 miles or so, to make sure a lug has not become loose.

We pick up in just a little over a week.  I do have a torque wrench with me.  What's the torque setting for the lug nuts?  I see different numbers.  Thanks.

John

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On 4/30/2022 at 8:32 AM, John E Davies said:

When I trained as an A&P tech, the instructor in the How To Use Tools class demonstrated the need to always use a torque wrench. He had a big plate with a bunch of different sized bolts threaded into it. There was a chart with the recommended torque value. He had each of us tighten them by hand with a breaker bar to what we "thought" was the right amount, followed up by a torque wrench. 75% of the guys failed miserably, a couple were pretty close. NONE out of the 20 guys got them all exactly right. 

All torque wrenches "should" be calibrated, especially after a hard drop onto concrete. Hardly any are. When we torqued a truly critical fastener like a wing attach bolt, we checked the wrench for accuracy directly before using it. And then a second tech would check your work. If you got caught repeatedly hand tightening, you got fired.... Where I am getting is, if there is a good amount of safety margin, no worries, you can get away with sloppy techniques. If the Oliver recommended value is also the published Dexter maximum for the stud, you are asking for a failure and a possible fatality accident. if one stud snaps, it also over-stresses all the others. imagine your 75 pound wheel and tire bouncing across the median at 60 mph into oncoming traffic, while your brake drum throws sparks on the road surface then shatters.

https://www.sentinelandenterprise.com/2020/06/10/woman-airlifted-to-umass-memorial-in-worcester-after-tire-struck-suv-she-was-driving/

https://www.wikihow.com/Calibrate-a-Torque-Wrench

John Davies

Spokane WA

"All torque wrenches "should" be calibrated, especially after a hard drop onto concrete. Hardly any are."

John, my torque wrench is 20 years old and has the screw dial to go from 20-150 foot pounds.  How do I make sure it's calibrated accurately?  Thanks

John


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52 minutes ago, John Welte said:

John, my torque wrench is 20 years old and has the screw dial to go from 20-150 foot pounds.  How do I make sure it's calibrated accurately?  Thanks

You could compare it to several others and sort of average the values, see if yours is close. Take it to a lab that offers calibration services. A professional tester is tens of thousands of dollars. When I was an A&P tech we built a primitive one that worked fine, a steel framework with a shaft in the center (with a 1/2” square drive on one end) on roller bearings, and a long arm on back horizontal to the floor. We could hang weights on the arm at different locations, we used barbell and dumbbell weights because they stack, are cheap and have the numbers easily visible. For example, for 100 ft pounds you might stack one 50 pound weight 2 feet out from the centerline. If your tool reads 95, you make a chart with the “error correction” showing that it reads 5 low at that value, and just dial it to that. Normally you would get five or six different values for one wrench, and have all that on your chart. It is simple physics.

As I said before, few people ever get them calibrated. Or you could buy one of these:

https://www.protorquetools.com/torque-calibration-systems/cdi-calibration-systems/

John Davies

Spokane WA

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32 minutes ago, John E Davies said:

As I said before, few people ever get them calibrated. Or you could buy one of these:

https://www.protorquetools.com/torque-calibration-systems/cdi-calibration-systems/

John Davies

Spokane WA

I suppose I'm one of the "few people" as I calibrated my Harbor Freight Torque Wrench about a year ago. It was not hard to do and I saved myself almost $105,607.27 by doing it with this method. Surprisingly, it needed very little tweaking but I thought it was useful to have gone through the motions just to make sure a less than $25 torque wrench was close to being accurate.

Oh and, by the way, I start my torquing procedure using several of these and this, then use the torque wrench to reach a final value of 90 pound feet. **

 

**Torque is usually measured in Newton metres (Nm), or pound feet (lb-ft) – the latter not to be confused with foot pounds (ft-lb), as one ft-lb refers not to a twisting force, but to the amount of energy required to raise a 1lb weight by a distance of 1ft.

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11 hours ago, John E Davies said:

You could compare it to several others and sort of average the values, see if yours is close. Take it to a lab that offers calibration services. A professional tester is tens of thousands of dollars. When I was an A&P tech we built a primitive one that worked fine, a steel framework with a shaft in the center (with a 1/2” square drive on one end) on roller bearings, and a long arm on back horizontal to the floor. We could hang weights on the arm at different locations, we used barbell and dumbbell weights because they stack, are cheap and have the numbers easily visible. For example, for 100 ft pounds you might stack one 50 pound weight 2 feet out from the centerline. If your tool reads 95, you make a chart with the “error correction” showing that it reads 5 low at that value, and just dial it to that. Normally you would get five or six different values for one wrench, and have all that on your chart. It is simple physics.

As I said before, few people ever get them calibrated. Or you could buy one of these:

https://www.protorquetools.com/torque-calibration-systems/cdi-calibration-systems/

John Davies

Spokane WA

"As I said before, few people ever get them calibrated. Or you could buy one of these:

https://www.protorquetools.com/torque-calibration-systems/cdi-calibration-systems/"

Mine looks like the one in this thread with the nut on the end of the handle and the spin dial.  It's supposed to be accurate to +/- 4%.  That's good enough for me.  When you buy that torque wrench calibration machine for $107k let us all know so we can calibrate our wrenches.  If it's not too much problem you could bring it to a rally.  TIA

John

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  • 2 weeks later...

Nov 10, 2022 Update: 

I had provided Jason E. the manufacturers info and also our concern about using their MAX number for lugs.  He sent it up the chain at OTT.

Below is Jason's response to the lug not torque question.  Glad to hear that OTT has recognized the reality of torque tool accuracy and not having owners exceeding the MFG maximum recommended lug nut torque.  Especially when the MFG's provide a torque range.  So basically, a small victory for the owner peanut gallery I guess. 

Personally I am going to use 100 ft lbs on my aluminum rim lugs.  Gives me ten pounds over or under for my torque wrench accuracy.  

GJ

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: Jason Essary <Oliver@olivertraveltrailersservice.zohodesk.com>

Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2022 4:25 AM
To: John P. Russell, Jr. <jprredhorse@gmail.com>
Subject: Re:[## 12307 ##] Tire Pressure Overstatement for many OTT units using aluminum 16" Rims

Hey John,

 I have been informed that after speaking with the wheel vendor that they have stated that the wheel torque should be between 90 - 120ft lbs. With this being said Oliver has decided to drop our torque from the 120ft lbs down to 110ft lbs. 

 Regards,

 Jason D. Essary  Customer Service Director

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

 

On 11/10/2022 at 5:55 PM, Geronimo John said:

Below is Jason's response to the lug not torque question.  Glad to hear that OTT has recognized the reality of torque tool accuracy and not having owners exceeding the MFG maximum recommended lug nut torque. 

Big thanks to Geronimo John!   Thanks to his persistence, Oliver changed the torque specs in the 2023 Owners Manual.  Unfortunately, they did not bother to amend the previous owners manuals.  I’ve been running mine at 100 ft-lbs, never a loose one.   I copied and pasted a snip from the 2023 manual  (page 88).   

LUG NUT TORQUE SPECS

It is also important to have the wheel nuts checked regularly to make sure they have not

loosened during travel. Follow the schedule for regular wheel nut torque checks. If you

suspect that wheel nuts have loosened at any time, have them checked and torqued to

proper limits immediately (110 ft/lbs).

 

 

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1 hour ago, Hokieman said:

…Unfortunately, they did not bother to amend the previous owners manual…I copied and pasted a snip from the manual  ( page 87)….

This is a great point. Please go thru the manuals and note all the places this incorrect info shows up. Copy all the HTML links to those errors and send them to Matt at Oliver. He will take care of getting the manuals updated. If you need help getting your collected data to Matt, let me know and I will send it for you. Good idea, thanks. 

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Hokieman is correct in his statement that Oliver updated the 2023 Owners Manual to reflect the lower torque setting for wheel lug nuts. He pasted the new torque values from page 88 of the manual. However, page 89 of the manual states that when using the spare tire to replace a flat, the lug nuts should be torqued to 120 ft/lbs. It appears they haven’t updated ALL text related to the old high torque values. While all who have followed this thread understand this is an oversight, others may not and would be confused.

We won’t receive our Ollie until mid-April 2023 so this change doesn’t impact us yet, but I have it on my checklist to verify lug nut torque on delivery day! Thank you all for your posts as this site has been invaluable to me. And thank you ScubaRX for offering to get this obsolete info to Matt.

Jeff and Carolyn

 

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  • 8 months later...

On the Oliver Trailer Owners Facebook page today,  Edward Stroetz wrote that at this years rally, Jason T from OTT advised all the wheel nut torque should be 100 ft-lbs.    I was not at the rally,  and don’t know who Jason T is.   Can anyone that attended  the rally confirm?  The 2023 manual online continues to show discrepancies.

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  • 3 months later...
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On 7/24/2023 at 9:03 PM, Hokieman said:

On the Oliver Trailer Owners Facebook page today,  Edward Stroetz wrote that at this years rally, Jason T from OTT advised all the wheel nut torque should be 100 ft-lbs.    I was not at the rally,  and don’t know who Jason T is.   Can anyone that attended  the rally confirm?  The 2023 manual online continues to show discrepancies.

Ninety is probably plenty, but one hundred is OK too. Tighten in steps, say 50-70-90 or 100 pound/feet at a time.

Important, check torque again after driving about 75 miles.

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Steve, Tali and our dog Rocky plus our beloved Storm, Maggie, Lucy and Reacher (all waiting at the Rainbow Bridge)

2008 Legacy Elite I - Outlaw Oliver, Hull #026 | 2014 Legacy Elite II - Outlaw Oliver, Hull #050 | 2022 Silverado High Country 3500HD SRW Diesel 4x4 

 

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On 7/24/2023 at 10:03 PM, Hokieman said:

and don’t know who Jason T is

It was probably actually Jason Essary (Service Manager).

Bill

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On 7/24/2023 at 8:03 PM, Hokieman said:

On the Oliver Trailer Owners Facebook page today,  Edward Stroetz wrote that at this years rally, Jason T from OTT advised all the wheel nut torque should be 100 ft-lbs.    I was not at the rally,  and don’t know who Jason T is.   Can anyone that attended  the rally confirm?  The 2023 manual online continues to show discrepancies.

Unfortunately I did not get a response to my question about what was allegedly said by Jason T or maybe Jason E at the rally about torque specs.   Perhaps it didn’t happen.  I’m writing this response because some new readers may not have seen this older thread, and if not, I encourage them to go back and read as it is a very important safety issue for all.   Several of us ME’s including Geronimo John and @mjotto did some research and the findings are in this thread.   GJ and I turned in Service Tickets on the issue, read by Jason E., and GJ reported back on it.  GJ was able to persuade OTT to reduce the torque value,  which is better, but they apparently didn’t want to go lower for reasons unknown.  They updated  the newer manuals, but made errors, and did not send out a service advisory to those of us with older trailers.   I have been using 100 ft-lbs and 45-50 psi in my trailer tires since Mile 1, which I understand contradicts OTT instructions.   I periodically check my torque wrench calibration  (I have several) and never use lubricant on the threads. 

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8 hours ago, Hokieman said:

I have been using 100 ft-lbs and 45-50 psi in my trailer tires

Same here - largely because of what we've gleaned from this and similar threads....

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1 hour ago, MAX Burner said:
10 hours ago, Hokieman said:

I have been using 100 ft-lbs and 45-50 psi in my trailer tires

Same here - largely because of what we've gleaned from this and similar threads....

Ditto!

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