Actually a 3.75 Season Trailer?

[GAP]

My wife and I purchased our 2020 E2 based, to a certain degree, on our enthusiasm for cold weather adventuring.  We took a number of trips over the 21/22 winter season to check out limits and capacities.  All were trips between 3 and 7 days, in northern New England with night time temps in the range of roughly 30-0 degrees Fahrenheit.  We would note nightly exterior temps, kept the overnight cabin interior set to 60 and rotated 3 digital temp sensors around what we found to be the most vulnerable areas to cold we found (and could get to) between the shells that housed water lines and tanks: 1) under front dinette seat, under street side bed by the exterior shower, 2) the pex lines to exterior shower passing through the faux wall at very rear of basement and 3) the battery box.  We could not get to but are curious about the cabinet housing containing the bathroom sink.  Playing it safe, we kept the trailer winterized for the entire time relying on containerized water and our composting toilet.  All of our sites were boondocky, with no shore power hookups so we relied entirely on the LP furnace and solar/lithiums.

We found that the stock trailer could manage to keep all the areas listed from dipping below freezing down to 25 (exterior temp).  The lines behind the faux wall and exterior shower would hover in the low 30s at that temp.  We realized those pex lines will, realistically speaking, need to be always kept winterized by adding cut offs as heating the basement area would be an inefficient waster of LP.  Side note that we asked Jason if that could be done during our build and he informed us that the shop could not find anywhere with enough space to add them.  We're open to suggestions.  A simple set of tweaks including adding two layers of Reflectix to cover the interior of both the basement and battery compartment doors got us down to 20 with similar results.

Next project was more involved.  The temperature difference between the areas under and wall along side the curbside bed versus the street side bed was resulting in heavy condensation on the streetside wall and window which would soak that bed.  We also found that the battery compartment was dropping down into the 30s at exterior temps in the high teens.  While there is a matte heater pad below the batteries, it seemed to us that the compartment was too cold to reflect the lithiums themselves being warm enough to run efficiently and we noticed anecdotally an increased need for more charging assist - be it solar or generator.  Could haver been the drain of the heat pad or the lithiums running less efficiently in the cold (as validated by the manufacturer) but which one did not matter.  We felt adding heat to the box would be of benefit.  Our fix was to re-route some heating vent.  We capped the rearward 4" vent and re-ran that line through the gap behind the water tank from the furnace to the street side, past the inverter, under the battery box to a new vent we placed as a mirror image to the existing one below the drawers in the galley.  One vent grate is pointed fore and the other aft.  Here we used semi rigid vent tube specifically because it sheds so much heat, allowing the areas it runs through to warm.  Where the tube ran past electronics, we would shield the hot tube in a layer of reflectix.  Measuring with an infrared thermometer, the reflextix surface was cooler than the surface of the OEM flexi vent tubing and quite cool to the touch.  The heat exiting the new vent would run about 10 degrees warmer than the one on the other side of the isle even though it is a further distance from the source.  

We expected an increase in output from the vent in the bathroom but did not notice much of a change.  As the bathroom is a bit of a "dead end" with air being forced in but nowhere for it to exit, we added a 4" eyebrow vent at the floor level below the towel rack to allow for circulation and share some heat passively with another problem cold area - under the front dinette seat.  While there are no pex lines run there, there are drain pipes and tanks and it would otherwise fall to freezing if outside temps were in the teens. 

Not very scientific but the furnace did not sound like it was under further strain or seem to run more frequently given similar temps.  Our rate of LP consumption is roughly the same now as it was before alterations which, in single degree night time temps, consumes a 30lb tank in just over 2 days.  Not very good.  To increase efficiency, we cut two layers of "double bubble"reflectix and taped the edges with silver foil vent tape - as suggested in a previous post.  They fit tightly inside all windows and are held in place by closing the shade.  Bought a camco 14" soft material vent cover which bunjied over the Maxair (when not cooking) and cut a piece of 2" open cell foam to fit the window in the door.  Covered it with a layer of reflectix and taped the edges.  This is held firmly in place by the screen door.  As all including the fan cover have refectix sides facing inward, the add ons look good enough - not jury rigged.

Our takeaway is that these tweaks have bought us 20 degrees of leeway so we have squeaked by to zero.  The batteries box is running much warmer but the other areas are more iffy.  There is less condensation around the streetside bed but the exterior shower, for it's entire run, will need to be somehow shut off and winterizede or will be subject to freezing.  Someone had suggested cutting a block of memory foam to put in the box with the exterior shower nozzle and knobs which may work but would not help with the tubing behind the faux wall.

As to factory options that would have really helped:  The exterior shower really needs cut offs or could have had it's lines run through a heated area of the belly and it would be super helpful to insulate the basement walls, basement door and shower door.  The walls of the trailer REALLY transmit a lot of cold into the interior.  A layer of spray on insulation foam would have gone a long way to help with that.  I am also eyeballing the sealed belly and thinking a layer of sprayed on insulation could really help there as well.  Am going to contact an HVAC place to get some feedback on options there.  Also looking for doable suggestions.

We love our Oliver and appreciate the incredible quality of the build.  We also realize that there are very few folks looking to use theirs in frigid conditions.  We're hoping that those of you that do, pipe in with further feedback and refinement to increase both capacity and efficiency in these sort of conditions.

 

[ScubaRx]

33 minutes ago, GAP said:

My wife and I purchased our 2020 E2 based, to a certain degree, on our enthusiasm for cold weather adventuring.  We took a number of trips over the 21/22 winter season to check out limits and capacities.  All were trips between 3 and 7 days, in northern New England with night time temps in the range of roughly 30-0 degrees Fahrenheit.  We would note nightly exterior temps, kept the overnight cabin interior set to 60 and rotated 3 digital temp sensors around what we found to be the most vulnerable areas to cold we found (and could get to) between the shells that housed water lines and tanks: 1) under front dinette seat, under street side bed by the exterior shower, 2) the pex lines to exterior shower passing through the faux wall at very rear of basement and 3) the battery box.  We could not get to but are curious about the cabinet housing containing the bathroom sink.  Playing it safe, we kept the trailer winterized for the entire time relying on containerized water and our composting toilet.  All of our sites were boondocky, with no shore power hookups so we relied entirely on the LP furnace and solar/lithiums.

We found that the stock trailer could manage to keep all the areas listed from dipping below freezing down to 25 (exterior temp).  The lines behind the faux wall and exterior shower would hover in the low 30s at that temp.  We realized those pex lines will, realistically speaking, need to be always kept winterized by adding cut offs as heating the basement area would be an inefficient waster of LP.  Side note that we asked Jason if that could be done during our build and he informed us that the shop could not find anywhere with enough space to add them.  We're open to suggestions.  A simple set of tweaks including adding two layers of Reflectix to cover the interior of both the basement and battery compartment doors got us down to 20 with similar results.

Next project was more involved.  The temperature difference between the areas under and wall along side the curbside bed versus the street side bed was resulting in heavy condensation on the streetside wall and window which would soak that bed.  We also found that the battery compartment was dropping down into the 30s at exterior temps in the high teens.  While there is a matte heater pad below the batteries, it seemed to us that the compartment was too cold to reflect the lithiums themselves being warm enough to run efficiently and we noticed anecdotally an increased need for more charging assist - be it solar or generator.  Could haver been the drain of the heat pad or the lithiums running less efficiently in the cold (as validated by the manufacturer) but which one did not matter.  We felt adding heat to the box would be of benefit.  Our fix was to re-route some heating vent.  We capped the rearward 4" vent and re-ran that line through the gap behind the water tank from the furnace to the street side, past the inverter, under the battery box to a new vent we placed as a mirror image to the existing one below the drawers in the galley.  One vent grate is pointed fore and the other aft.  Here we used semi rigid vent tube specifically because it sheds so much heat, allowing the areas it runs through to warm.  Where the tube ran past electronics, we would shield the hot tube in a layer of reflectix.  Measuring with an infrared thermometer, the reflextix surface was cooler than the surface of the OEM flexi vent tubing and quite cool to the touch.  The heat exiting the new vent would run about 10 degrees warmer than the one on the other side of the isle even though it is a further distance from the source.  

We expected an increase in output from the vent in the bathroom but did not notice much of a change.  As the bathroom is a bit of a "dead end" with air being forced in but nowhere for it to exit, we added a 4" eyebrow vent at the floor level below the towel rack to allow for circulation and share some heat passively with another problem cold area - under the front dinette seat.  While there are no pex lines run there, there are drain pipes and tanks and it would otherwise fall to freezing if outside temps were in the teens. 

Not very scientific but the furnace did not sound like it was under further strain or seem to run more frequently given similar temps.  Our rate of LP consumption is roughly the same now as it was before alterations which, in single degree night time temps, consumes a 30lb tank in just over 2 days.  Not very good.  To increase efficiency, we cut two layers of "double bubble"reflectix and taped the edges with silver foil vent tape - as suggested in a previous post.  They fit tightly inside all windows and are held in place by closing the shade.  Bought a camco 14" soft material vent cover which bunjied over the Maxair (when not cooking) and cut a piece of 2" open cell foam to fit the window in the door.  Covered it with a layer of reflectix and taped the edges.  This is held firmly in place by the screen door.  As all including the fan cover have refectix sides facing inward, the add ons look good enough - not jury rigged.

Our takeaway is that these tweaks have bought us 20 degrees of leeway so we have squeaked by to zero.  The batteries box is running much warmer but the other areas are more iffy.  There is less condensation around the streetside bed but the exterior shower, for it's entire run, will need to be somehow shut off and winterizede or will be subject to freezing.  Someone had suggested cutting a block of memory foam to put in the box with the exterior shower nozzle and knobs which may work but would not help with the tubing behind the faux wall.

As to factory options that would have really helped:  The exterior shower really needs cut offs or could have had it's lines run through a heated area of the belly and it would be super helpful to insulate the basement walls, basement door and shower door.  The walls of the trailer REALLY transmit a lot of cold into the interior.  A layer of spray on insulation foam would have gone a long way to help with that.  I am also eyeballing the sealed belly and thinking a layer of sprayed on insulation could really help there as well.  Am going to contact an HVAC place to get some feedback on options there.  Also looking for doable suggestions.

We love our Oliver and appreciate the incredible quality of the build.  We also realize that there are very few folks looking to use theirs in frigid conditions.  We're hoping that those of you that do, pipe in with further feedback and refinement to increase both capacity and efficiency in these sort of conditions.

 

I am in the middle of a project where I am rebuilding the basement. I have decided to reroute the supply lines for the outside shower to a position more inboard than they are now. This is mainly to allow the new floor that I intend to install to be lower and completely flat. In rerouting those lines it will put them in a position closer to the centerline of the trailer as opposed to right next to the outside wall. This should have a positive effect on insulating those lines. I had not thought of putting valves into those lines, but it does sound like a good idea, and in their new position, it will be easy to do. I will probably put electric motorized valves in since I would not be able to easily access manual ones from the outside. Thanks for the idea. 

[Rivernerd]

On 10/23/2022 at 4:57 PM, GAP said:

Playing it safe, we kept the trailer winterized for the entire time relying on containerized water and our composting toilet. 

Thanks for the very informative post.  It is particularly useful to know that the "stock" trailer will protect the water systems from freezing down to 25 F, and that you burned about 15 lbs. (3+ gallons) of propane per day when nighttime lows were in single digits.

Please forgive me if this is a dumb question.  But, if you kept all water systems winterized the entire time, using only containerized water and your composting toilet, what would it matter if the external shower was exposed to freezing temps?  The winterizing process should have filled all of your Pex lines with RV antifreeze.  What am I missing?

[Steph and Dud B]

33 minutes ago, Rivernerd said:

What am I missing?

I think they were testing temperatures while winterized so they could establish a baseline before risking winter camping with water in the lines.

[GAP]

That's it exactly.  We were testing the system free of frozen line consequence  This winter we are planning a month long cross country ski safari and, being that long, would want to be able to have showers.  

Scuba, We're super interested in your project and not just the process of rerouting water lines.  Hope to hear the gory details.

[Steph and Dud B]

@GAP How did you clear snow off your solar panels?

[Roger P]

It’s good datas, thank you. It’s a Florida’s 4 seasons trailer!  There is no rig that will stand cold weather for a long time because there are too many infiltration weak points: water inlet, back of the fridge, back of the water heater, door, windows, maxxair, roof vent , weak insulation factor (R…) etc……but Oliver is way better then other type of construction with a double haul and no slides out……it’s designed in case of a nights or two below freezing but not that much. 4 seasons in Eastern Canada need R60……!

[Paul and Santina]

13 hours ago, GAP said:

The temperature difference between the areas under and wall along side the curbside bed versus the street side bed was resulting in heavy condensation on the streetside wall and window which would soak that bed.

We’ve found this as well when temps overnight dip to the 30’s and the humidity in the cabin is high. Most of the condensate is on the metal window frame that drips down the wall to the bed. We roll up a cotton dish towel and stuff that under the window between the window and shade holder, which gets soaked, but stops the condensate from running down the wall & soaking the bed. Thanks for the detailed analysis - fantastic data!

[Hokieman]

14 hours ago, GAP said:

All were trips between 3 and 7 days, in northern New England with night time temps in the range of roughly 30-0 degrees Fahrenheit. 

Thanks for this informative post.   Please tell us about cabin venting at those temps.   Which windows or vent fans do you typically open and how much, especially while sleeping?  You mentioned MaxAir vent was covered, not used except for cooking.  We have camped into the high 20’s, and have been experimenting with cabin venting balance to minimize condensation.   We are hoping to improve the cold weather capabilities so these mods and ideas are very beneficial.

[GAP]

1 hour ago, Hokieman said:

Thanks for this informative post.   Please tell us about cabin venting at those temps.   Which windows or vent fans do you typically open and how much, especially while sleeping?  You mentioned MaxAir vent was covered, not used except for cooking.  We have camped into the high 20’s, and have been experimenting with cabin venting balance to minimize condensation.   We are hoping to improve the cold weather capabilities so these mods and ideas are very beneficial.

For the sake of efficiency, we sleep with everything buttoned up.  If you run your hands past the edges of window sliders, past the seam between panels on the bathroom window, around the edges of the door, etc... there are plenty of minor leakage points.  We feel these minor porosity is healthy and would prevent mold much the same with a modern house.  During the days we run the Maxair when cooking and, as necessary, pull the reflectix inserts in the windows to allow the heat "cook away" moisture buldup per condensation on on the glass.  We also carry a small mountain of micro fiber hand cloths to wipe away moisture from the glass, bathroom and galley.  Super absorbant and easy to clean.  Our safety backups is the monitor/alarm to warn of of C02 buildup.  The smoke alarm has gone off while cooking items that really produce smoke but the alarms have not gone off otherwise.

[John E Davies]

25 minutes ago, GAP said:

For the sake of efficiency, we sleep with everything buttoned up.   Our safety backups is the monitor/alarm to warn of of C02 buildup.  

Your primary hazard when using the furnace is indeed CO poisoning (from a stress crack in the combustion chamber, which is impossible to predict). You are putting a lot of faith in the two Oliver installed “yes/ no” CO detectors. The one under the galley isn’t going to be helpful, CO is lighter than air. The combo smoke/ CO unit below the attic is good, if it works. I recommend this digital CO detector as a failsafe, it will show you trends, for example, the current level (should be very close to zero, but up to 50 is acceptable in the short term) and the highest reading since last reset.

https://olivertraveltrailers.com/forums/topic/6780-how-to-replace-the-propane-co-detector-with-a-gas-only-one-and-a-digital-co-detector/

I have three of these, one in the trailer up high, one in the RV bay, one inside the house (because I have gas appliances and heating). The Rv bay unit shows elevated levels briefly when I have run a car in the attached garage, it has never actually got to an alarm level.

Those who camp in milder weather should crack a rear window and open the bath vent half way and not stress too much. If you are running electric heat, there is no worry at all about carbon monoxide death…. Which I understand is quite nasty, but OTH it is quite hard on your family and friends.

Symptoms of carbon monoxide poisoning may include:

• Breathing problems, including no breathing, shortness of breath, or rapid breathing
• Chest pain (may occur suddenly in people with angina)
• Coma
• Confusion
• Convulsions
• Dizziness
• Drowsiness
• Fainting
• Fatigue
• General weakness and achiness
• Headache
• Hyperactivity
• Impaired judgment
• Irritability
• Low blood pressure
• Muscle weakness
• Rapid or abnormal heartbeat
• Shock
• Nausea and vomiting
• Unconsciousness

 

John Davies

Spokane WA

[Guest]

Hello,

Thanks GAP for posting this information. Carrie and I are hoping to use our trailer for winter trips cross country skiing. Your information is interesting and a bit disappointing. We are going to try a couple of the small bilge heater in the basement area. There are more problem areas than we expected. Sounds like having a warm showers might be problematic. We pick up December 5th. We are getting the largest lithium package. We also have a 3.6 kWh battery pack for extra energy. Not sure how it will work, but it sounds like modifications will be needed for cold weather camping. If the owner wants to camp in the winter in the northern half of the US, maybe it more of 3.5 season?

Thanks again! 
Kirk
 

[GAP]

43 minutes ago, snakeriveridaho said:

Hello,

Thanks GAP for posting this information. Carrie and I are hoping to use our trailer for winter trips cross country skiing. Your information is interesting and a bit disappointing. We are going to try a couple of the small bilge heater in the basement area. There are more problem areas than we expected. Sounds like having a warm showers might be problematic. We pick up December 5th. We are getting the largest lithium package. We also have a 3.6 kWh battery pack for extra energy. Not sure how it will work, but it sounds like modifications will be needed for cold weather camping. If the owner wants to camp in the winter in the northern half of the US, maybe it more of 3.5 season?

Thanks again! 
Kirk
 

Hey Kirk.  Sorry to say but, from my real world testing, you are right.  Great as they are, these trailers are not set up stock for use in temps below mid 20s if the water system is on.  To different degrees of efficiency, just about any trailer with a decent heating system could be used in the winter as long as the water system is turned off.  I've heard that a number of other manufacturer's stick built models are set up for running dewinterized in deep cold conditions and cannot square how Oliver claims these trailers to be truly 4 season capable as they are currently built.  

Your trailer's huge lithium capacity my be able to handle the bilge pumps and keep them running 24/7 but I'd suggest running some tests with the unit winterized first to see what is what.  Please share your results here as it could prove helpful to all.

[GAP]

7 hours ago, Steph and Dud B said:

@GAP How did you clear snow off your solar panels?

We use a light weight, 12' ladder like this Telescoping Ladder to get to the panels.  If they are covered with powdery snow, we clear with a long brush attached to our truck window scraper.  You can also get a rubberized "roof rake" to push the snow off.  If snow is wet, dense or icy, we wait for a warm day and use our little generator to keep the batteries topped off until the panels can be cleared off. BTW, those ladders are super handy.  We keep in our truck bed all the time and I can't tell you howe often we've been glad it was there.

[SteveCr]

•  

Hull 806..LE2.....a repost of our low temp camping experience. I have no problem considering the Ollie a 4 season trailer but I know I have to monitor the temps and always have to have a back up plan (or three) if "oops" happens (bold below).

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

We camped in Wyoming with lows around 15 degrees for a week, not winterized, with no problem. Altitude was about 7,000 feet.

I have three SensorPush HT1 Wireless Thermometers  to monitor the temps.

Sensor # 1 was located in the cabin attached to the rear most driver side reading light.

Sensor # 2 was located between hulls under the passenger side bed near the tail lights & water lines.

Sensor # 3 was located between hulls under the driver side bed next to the shower outlet.

On the outside of Ollie, I removed the shower head and pulled the water line inside the hull and reconnected the shower head.

I set the furnace to mid/upper 50's and monitored all three temps....adjusting as desired.

The driver side had the largest variance to the cabin temperature.....about 15 degrees.

I have two 30 lb propane tanks. We were boondocking. After 5 or 6 days with ice/snow cloud cover....the batteries got down to about 50% SOC. At that point, I used the generator to recharge....not risking the furnace fan operation.

We consumed one tank of propane and promptly got it refilled. (This was a portion of a five week western trip..we had been running the refrig on propane so we did not consume the whole tank in this one week).

I also carried a Caframo heater and anti-freeze/pump ..... just in case.

We operated the water system/hot water heater as normal.

We did have to deal with condensation.

(((BTW...I have move one of the sensors to inside of the refrigerator. We adjust the temp setting according to the readings. Early on in our experience we were having veggies and eggs freeze because we did not monitor and adjust....now, not an issue.)))

Steve

[GAP]

3 hours ago, SteveCr said:

•  

 

•  

Hull 806..LE2.....a repost of our low temp camping experience. I have no problem considering the Ollie a 4 season trailer but I know I have to monitor the temps and always have to have a back up plan (or three) if "oops" happens (bold below).

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

We camped in Wyoming with lows around 15 degrees for a week, not winterized, with no problem. Altitude was about 7,000 feet.

I have three SensorPush HT1 Wireless Thermometers  to monitor the temps.

Sensor # 1 was located in the cabin attached to the rear most driver side reading light.

Sensor # 2 was located between hulls under the passenger side bed near the tail lights & water lines.

Sensor # 3 was located between hulls under the driver side bed next to the shower outlet.

On the outside of Ollie, I removed the shower head and pulled the water line inside the hull and reconnected the shower head.

I set the furnace to mid/upper 50's and monitored all three temps....adjusting as desired.

The driver side had the largest variance to the cabin temperature.....about 15 degrees.

I have two 30 lb propane tanks. We were boondocking. After 5 or 6 days with ice/snow cloud cover....the batteries got down to about 50% SOC. At that point, I used the generator to recharge....not risking the furnace fan operation.

We consumed one tank of propane and promptly got it refilled. (This was a portion of a five week western trip..we had been running the refrig on propane so we did not consume the whole tank in this one week).

I also carried a Caframo heater and anti-freeze/pump ..... just in case.

We operated the water system/hot water heater as normal.

We did have to deal with condensation.

(((BTW...I have move one of the sensors to inside of the refrigerator. We adjust the temp setting according to the readings. Early on in our experience we were having veggies and eggs freeze because we did not monitor and adjust....now, not an issue.)))

Steve

Hey Steve,

Good stuff.  Thanks for sharing.  BTW, what is a Camframo Heater and an anti-freeze pump?

[topgun2]

1 minute ago, GAP said:

what is a Camframo Heater and an anti-freeze pump?

Try THIS for the heater

and

THIS for the anti-freeze pump - used to pump anti-freeze into the black tank flush, city water and fresh water external ports.

Bill

[GAP]

3 minutes ago, GAP said:

Hey Steve,

Good stuff.  Thanks for sharing.  BTW, what is a Camframo Heater and an anti-freeze pump?

Oooops.  I got it.  Camframo is a manufacturer of small heaters and the antifreeze pump is the hand pump used for winterizing.  Thought it was anti freeze pump.  Ha.

[GAP]

8 hours ago, SteveCr said:

•  

 

•  

Hull 806..LE2.....a repost of our low temp camping experience. I have no problem considering the Ollie a 4 season trailer but I know I have to monitor the temps and always have to have a back up plan (or three) if "oops" happens (bold below).

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

We camped in Wyoming with lows around 15 degrees for a week, not winterized, with no problem. Altitude was about 7,000 feet.

I have three SensorPush HT1 Wireless Thermometers  to monitor the temps.

Sensor # 1 was located in the cabin attached to the rear most driver side reading light.

Sensor # 2 was located between hulls under the passenger side bed near the tail lights & water lines.

Sensor # 3 was located between hulls under the driver side bed next to the shower outlet.

On the outside of Ollie, I removed the shower head and pulled the water line inside the hull and reconnected the shower head.

I set the furnace to mid/upper 50's and monitored all three temps....adjusting as desired.

The driver side had the largest variance to the cabin temperature.....about 15 degrees.

I have two 30 lb propane tanks. We were boondocking. After 5 or 6 days with ice/snow cloud cover....the batteries got down to about 50% SOC. At that point, I used the generator to recharge....not risking the furnace fan operation.

We consumed one tank of propane and promptly got it refilled. (This was a portion of a five week western trip..we had been running the refrig on propane so we did not consume the whole tank in this one week).

I also carried a Caframo heater and anti-freeze/pump ..... just in case.

We operated the water system/hot water heater as normal.

We did have to deal with condensation.

(((BTW...I have move one of the sensors to inside of the refrigerator. We adjust the temp setting according to the readings. Early on in our experience we were having veggies and eggs freeze because we did not monitor and adjust....now, not an issue.)))

Steve

Been thinking Steve about the differences in our experiences.  May not be all that far apart.  During my test trips, the temps never got above freezing even during the days.  You mentioned lows around mid teens.  What were average daily highs?  

Good idea on the exterior shower head.  When I moved a thermometer around to test different areas in that below-the-streetside-bed, a mater of a half foot in bound would make a pretty large difference.  As the exterior shower pex lines terminated by the hot/cold knobs, that is where I hung the sensor.

Looking forward to comparing notes with you and others that have tried similar.

[SteveCr]

18 minutes ago, GAP said:

Been thinking Steve about the differences in our experiences.  May not be all that far apart.  During my test trips, the temps never got above freezing even during the days.  You mentioned lows around mid teens.  What were average daily highs?  

Good idea on the exterior shower head.  When I moved a thermometer around to test different areas in that below-the-streetside-bed, a mater of a half foot in bound would make a pretty large difference.  As the exterior shower pex lines terminated by the hot/cold knobs, that is where I hung the sensor.

Looking forward to comparing notes with you and others that have tried similar.

Yeah, we were seeing a freeze/thaw cycle each day.....highs were probably in mid-30's. With the ice, I didn't bother trying to keep the solar panels clear...never built up more than a couple of inches and I didn't want to chance damaging them.

I agree the the street side shower knob area is a good place to use to determine where to set the furnace thermostat.

I did not monitor the trailer front temp....just kept the bathroom and closet doors open at night.

I used the Lithonics app to monitor the battery internal temperatures and never saw a need to turn on the aux battery heater.

 

 

[Mcb]

This is really great stuff. 
Its one thing to deal with night time temps dropping into the 20s when day time temps recover well above freezing. Its a whole different ball of wax when those day time temps stay in the 30s or below.. Its interesting reading about how you folks are managing those conditions. 
 

 

[Mike and Carol]

1 hour ago, Mcb said:

This is really great stuff. 
Its one thing to deal with night time temps dropping into the 20s when day time temps recover well above freezing. Its a whole different ball of wax when those day time temps stay in the 30s or below.. Its interesting reading about how you folks are managing those conditions. 
 

 

Yes, this is an interesting discussion.  We’ve camped in mid to low 20s frequently and a few times in the teens but the daytime temps were upper 30s or higher.  We did do four days in Durango once with temps in the teens and barely over freezing during the day.  Kept the heat up and no issues.  Some good suggestions here.  Mike

[GAP]

My last trip last winter was 5 days where daytime temps were in teens and nightime lows around 0.  I attribute mad scientist mods with the level of success we had but, it felt like walking a knife's edge.  Temp in battery box was solid, by the knobs to shower was in mid 30s and between the shells, under the front dinette seat dropped till freezing till I propped open the lid in the seat.  Then was in high 30s.  Our trailers are so well insulated that having extended daytime periods above freezing allows the inter-shell area to warm up which may have an effect that lasts well into the night. This is pure conjecture as none of the weather I saw last season got that warm.  

Super interesting stuff.  Really helpful hear everyone's experiences.  Thanks for sharing.

[Minnesota Oli]

This is a interesting topic. My first trip with the new to me Oliver was in October in my home state of MN along the north shore. The temp at night was in the teens and just below freezing during the day. I was nervous about the conditions because I found my AGM batteries were in a low sate of charge just from running the furnace  over night. It was decided right then that I was going to come up with some solutions so I could enjoy camping without worrying about freeze ups and low batteries.

I made some modifications to the heating system simply by adding two extra runs of heat ducts. I identified the weak points in the water system and targeted those areas. I tested my modifications by spending three days in sub zero temperature with water on board. I added no extra heat sources other then the furnace and left no compartment doors open on the interior. Now I have no plans on doing sub zero camping but now I know what the Oliver can handle and can just enjoy camping without worrying.

The issue with the AMG batteries was addressed by switching to lithium. Here are a couple of links that explain my modifications.

 

[GAP]

On 10/25/2022 at 11:43 AM, Minnesota Oli said:

This is a interesting topic. My first trip with the new to me Oliver was in October in my home state of MN along the north shore. The temp at night was in the teens and just below freezing during the day. I was nervous about the conditions because I found my AGM batteries were in a low sate of charge just from running the furnace  over night. It was decided right then that I was going to come up with some solutions so I could enjoy camping without worrying about freeze ups and low batteries.

I made some modifications to the heating system simply by adding two extra runs of heat ducts. I identified the weak points in the water system and targeted those areas. I tested my modifications by spending three days in sub zero temperature with water on board. I added no extra heat sources other then the furnace and left no compartment doors open on the interior. Now I have no plans on doing sub zero camping but now I know what the Oliver can handle and can just enjoy camping without worrying.

The issue with the AMG batteries was addressed by switching to lithium. Here are a couple of links that explain my modifications.

 

 

Wow.  Great post Oli.  I have dug through your furnace modifications once and, while it will take another peek or two, was super impressed with your approach.  The primary difference in my shot at it was that you added heat to the pex runs for the external shower while I have tried to isolate those lines so they can be left filled with antifreeze.  Not sure if I have the mechanical chops to do the same as you outlined but it could be the path of least resistance to address that particular problem.  

Thanks much for the thorough description and photos.

Gerry