More air flow in bathroom

[CnC]

16 hours ago, JEssary said:

I requested that

Jason said:  "I requested that"... and told us why.

It's nice to know that the Oliver staff pays attention to us!

THANK YOU!

Charlie

[Rivernerd]

On 1/23/2023 at 4:07 PM, JEssary said:

The return air vents is something that can be easily added on older models if you choose to. 

Although we have a Truma Varioheat furnace with a return air vent in the bathroom, I chose to add a 4" round return air vent on the aisle side of the front dinette seat.  See photo below.

I did this in the hope it will further improve circulation of warm air through the areas under the floor, to help keep water tanks and pipes from freezing when camping in really cold temps.  I chose this location because it is about as far away from the two main cabin supply vents as possible, yet close to the floor where return heat vents should  be.  I am advised that maximum separation between supply vents and return air vents provides the most balanced air circulation.

These Valterra A10-3345VP 4" vents are available here:

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07D2Z8HBV?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1

They are installed using a 4" hole saw.  The vents have large bumps on each side which should be filed down to fit through the 4" round hole.  They come with two attachment screws that fit in recessed holes on the side flanges, for which you should pre-drill with a 7/64"  bit.  The drilling makes quite a mess, so you will need  a good vacuum.

The forecast is for temps around 0F here the nights of Sunday January 29 and Monday the 30th, so I plan to fire up the furnace one of those nights and monitor temps to verify what, if any, impact this additional return air vent has on below-the-floor conditions.

On 1/23/2023 at 4:07 PM, JEssary said:

They are still working on getting [vents] placed in the closet which should be one on the top & one on the bottom for better air circulation through that area.

While I had my 4" hole saw chucked into a cordless drill, I opted to add two 4" vents to the closet, one high and one low, as Jason recommended. See photo below.

I also plan to monitor the impact of these return air vents on closet temps.  When camping on our way back to Idaho from Hohenwald in some very cold ambient conditions in November, the closet remained quite cold, even when the main cabin was heated up to around 70 F.  I expect the effect of these new return air vents will be temps much closer to those in the main cabin.

 I will report the results of my temperature monitoring next week.

[hgreen]

Out of curiosity, where is the return air vent in the bathroom located on the new 2023 Elite II?

[Rivernerd]

1 hour ago, hgreen said:

Out of curiosity, where is the return air vent in the bathroom located on the new 2023 Elite II?

Low on the wall between the toilet and the dinette.  The photo below was shot looking down.  The toilet is visible on the right side of the frame.

 

That return air vent allows airflow into the area under the forward dinette seat, which connects to the under-floor area..

Data gathered during our return trip from Hohenwald to Idaho last November indicated that this 2" vent made a notable difference in below-floor temps on cold nights in the single digits and teens, F.  Based on those observations, if one had not been installed in our Hull #1291, I would install one. 

 

[hgreen]

Thank you.  

[Rivernerd]

On 1/26/2023 at 9:24 PM, Rivernerd said:

 I will report the results of my temperature monitoring next week.

The overnight low last night here in central Idaho got down below 0 F.  So today, I took advantage of the cold temps to test the performance of the Varioheat furnace system, with the additional return air vents I added on the aisle side of the front dinette seat and the closet last week  The results? 

First, the good news:  The closet and the area under the front dinette seat were significantly better warmed by the Varioheat furnace.  With cabin temp at 62 F, the area under the front dinette seat was 6 degrees warmer than before the addition of that return air vent (an increase from 38 to 44 F).  The closet improved even more, a total of 10 degrees (from 44 to 54 F).

Now the bad news:  My hopes that the increased airflow overall would also result in significantly warmer temps in the vulnerable area on the street side by the external shower controls, were not realized.  The temps in that rear area of the trailer stayed above freezing once cabin temps got above 60 F, but only 2 degrees higher than before adding the new return air vents (40 F now vs. 38 before).  Thus, there was some measurable improvement, and maybe enough to keep tanks and pipes from freezing when ambient temps are in the single digits, but not as much as I was hoping for.

Conclusion:  Installation of the new return air vents in the front of the cabin and the closet significantly improved the ability of the furnace to warm those areas.  But, that installation only marginally improved warming of the sensitive rear underbelly area of the trailer--maybe enough to keep that area from freezing down to single-digit ambient temps, but likely not below 0 F.

[GAP]

17 hours ago, Rivernerd said:

The overnight low last night here in central Idaho got down below 0 F.  So today, I took advantage of the cold temps to test the performance of the Varioheat furnace system, with the additional return air vents I added on the aisle side of the front dinette seat and the closet last week  The results? 

First, the good news:  The closet and the area under the front dinette seat were significantly better warmed by the Varioheat furnace.  With cabin temp at 62 F, the area under the front dinette seat was 6 degrees warmer than before the addition of that return air vent (an increase from 38 to 44 F).  The closet improved even more, a total of 10 degrees (from 44 to 54 F).

Now the bad news:  My hopes that the increased airflow overall would also result in significantly warmer temps in the vulnerable area on the street side by the external shower controls, were not realized.  The temps in that rear area of the trailer stayed above freezing once cabin temps got above 60 F, but only 2 degrees higher than before adding the new return air vents (40 F now vs. 38 before).  Thus, there was some measurable improvement, and maybe enough to keep tanks and pipes from freezing when ambient temps are in the single digits, but not as much as I was hoping for.

Conclusion:  Installation of the new return air vents in the front of the cabin and the closet significantly improved the ability of the furnace to warm those areas.  But, that installation only marginally improved warming of the sensitive rear underbelly area of the trailer--maybe enough to keep that area from freezing down to single-digit ambient temps, but likely not below 0 F.

Rivernerd,

From my mad scientist experimentation, there are four things you can do to improve this situation.

1). The column of the leveling jack and, most especially, the metal flange the column is attached to, makes for a great cold radiator.  some creative work with reflectix and silver tape would go a long way

2). unscrew the ext shower head, bring that line into the compartment and reattach the head.  Pull the hot and cold knobs.  Now there is enough room to add a block of closed cell foam under the little door to the ext shower compartment

3). cut two layers of reflectix material to cover the entire exterior access door.  Cut to fit around the latch but wide enough so it gets pinched by the rubber door gasket to make a seal.  Adjust the latch enough so it squeezes the reflectix to close gaps but not so much that the hinges to the door are straining when door is closed.

4). add a small return vent under that bed.  Mabey do this last to see if required as it's the most invasive.

I went entirely overboard there and replaced the most rearward heat vent on the curbside, snaked under the floor, pst the inverter and fed out to the isle across from the existing galley heat vent.  Had to insulate the hose from existing electronics.  It works great and certainly heats the battery compartment but bet if I had started with the points above, would not have been necessary.

Hope this helps.

[John E Davies]

13 minutes ago, GAP said:

 

1). The column of the leveling jack and, most especially, the metal flange the column is attached to, makes for a great cold radiator.  some creative work with reflectix and silver tape would go a long way

That is a great idea, but be sure to leave access to the four big bolts on that flange, so that they can be retorqued routinely. They DO loosen over time. Some sort of “hat” with foamed insulation inside it might be possible, as long as it is easily removable. For example cover the flange with plastic wrap.

John Davies

Spokane WA

[GAP]

20 hours ago, John E Davies said:

That is a great idea, but be sure to leave access to the four big bolts on that flange, so that they can be retorqued routinely. They DO loosen over time. Some sort of “hat” with foamed insulation inside it might be possible, as long as it is easily removable. For example cover the flange with plastic wrap.

John Davies

Spokane WA

As always John, you bring up a great point.  Do you have any idea what the torque on those bolts should be?  I've never checked them.

[John E Davies]

55 minutes ago, GAP said:

As always John, you bring up a great point.  Do you have any idea what the torque on those bolts should be?  I've never checked them.

Thanks, this was discussed a while back, 43 ft lbs.

https://olivertraveltrailers.com/forums/topic/6812-check-your-rear-jack-mount-hardware-bottom-frame-bolts-were-1-turn-loose/

John Davies

Spokane WA