Tow Vehicle, 6'4" vs 8' box, Crew vs Mega, DA vs SA

[JDAstroPhoto]

I've had my heart set on a Ram 3500 Cummins HO with the Aisin transmission for a while now, but haven't pulled the trigger on the truck or the LEII yet.  On the truck side I've been debating the following:

1. Dually - Dual Axle (DA) vs Single Axle (SA)
2. Crew Cab versus Mega Cab.
3. 6'4" Box versus 8' Box

• There are three important caveats,
  • You can only get the Mega Cab with the 6'4 box
  • You can only get the 50 gallon Diesel tank with the 8' box.  The 6'4" box comes with the standard 30 Gallon Tank.
  • You can only get the Mega Cab starting with the Laramie trim, there are 2 lessor trim packages which could save $

Lengths:

1. Crew 6'4"box- 19.75' wheelbase 149.5"
2. Crew 8' box - 21.73' wheelbase 169.5"
3. Mega 6'4" box - 20.82' wheelbase 160.5"

I was leaning towards the single axle Mega Cab with the 6'4" box, but that requires at least the Laramie trim package, which I don't necessarily want.  Also I really would like that 50 gallon tank, which puts me back to the Crew and 8' box which allows me to save some money and get back to the Tradesman trim.   

Having said all that, 90% of the time, there will only be 2 people in the truck and the Mega Cab really only benefits back seaters.  Unless of course you put the seats down and use it as a flat space for storage.  I wanted to see what you experienced Oliver haulers thought about these options. Any opinion on the wheelbase differences on towing or driving around town?  Or is the 149.5" wheelbase already so long adding another 20" isn't going to make much difference in towing.

DA vs SA, I am leaning toward SA mainly because of the rear width size during non-towing everyday driving.  However, I would also appreciate any opinions on this as well.

Any thoughts on the 6'4" box vs 8' box, in terms of running out of space?  Everyday driving? U-turns, etc.

[Rivernerd]

16 hours ago, JDAstroPhoto said:

Any thoughts on the 6'4" box vs 8' box, in terms of running out of space?  Everyday driving? U-turns, etc.

Will it be garaged?  Will the truck with the 8' box+Crew or Mega Cab easily fit into your garage?

FWIW, that extra 20" of wheelbase can also make a difference at many campsites.

If usually camping with 2 adults, I would prefer the CrewCab with 6'4" box.   I would sacrifice the 50-gallon fuel tank for the greater parkability, and probably slightly better gas mileage.

[JDAstroPhoto]

Thanks, no it will not be garaged.  100% of the time outdoors.

[Steph and Dud B]

We have a GMC crew cab, long bed, dually. It's huge. It's my daily driver and, for the most part, it's OK for that. I just park a little farther out in lots, because it's longer than a standard space. No issues on the roads, but I have run over over a few curbs in various driveways. And, be real careful in drive-throughs!

My turning radius is similar to the Queen Mary, but there's TONS of storage under the Diamondback bed cover. We can carry all kinds of camping gear in the truck. I actually need a hook to reach stuff at the front of the bed.

Such a big truck kind of negates the compact size of the Ollie. We're almost 45' long end to end, so we still need reasonably large sites for camping.

The dual wheels add considerable cost when it's time to replace tires and contribute to the aforementioned curb crawling. But they certainly give the truck a solid grip on the road when towing. No sense of sway when towing various trailers.

Previously, we had a crew cab, short bed, dually Ford, which I thought was perfect for hauling our fifth wheel. Really liked that configuration. But, the fifth wheel had a lot more storage than our Ollie.

In summary, I think if I was buying another truck as an Ollie hauler, I'd go with an extended cab, long bed, single rear wheel. The crew cab is overkill for the two of us, so an extended cab would help a bit with maneuverability. The long bed gives plenty of storage. And the dual rears aren't necessary for the relatively light and well-mannered Oliver.

[Patriot]

1 hour ago, Rivernerd said:

Will it be garaged?  With the truck with the 8' box+Crew or Mega Cab easily fit into your garage?

FWIW, that extra 20" of wheelbase can also make a difference at many campsites.

If usually camping with 2 adults, I would prefer the CrewCab with 6'4" box.   I would sacrifice the 50-gallon fuel tank for the greater parkability, and probably slightly better gas mileage.

💯agree.

[JDAstroPhoto]

Great write up, thanks very much.

[Ollie-Haus]

Two trucks back I had an F350 Diesel Crew Cab Dually 4x4. Unless I was planning on pulling an extremely heavy 5th wheel or hauling a full sized truck camper, I would not buy a dually for camping again. The dual wheel configuration will be of zero value pulling and LE2. They will get in the way a lot, they preclude you from most car washes, you won't be able to rotate tires without dismounting the tires from the rims, and the finders are always at risk when entering any tight space. My fenders got hit by other drivers while sitting in parking lots two times in five years. Also duallys are terrible in snowy conditions compared to single wheels. 

I've owned two 6.5' beds on full sized trucks in my two trucks since the dually. I've built a house, a 36x26 finished garage and remodeled another house from top to bottom and built a one car garage using the short bed trucks. Never once did I feel I needed a long bed for the many loads of materials I hauled to do those jobs. In other words the short beds were more than adequate. One truck back was a cab and a half configuration with the short bed. Often I wished I had gotten the crew cab, even though it was always just my wife and I. The back seat just wasn't very useful and the few times folks rode back there it was less than comfortable. The one caveat with it was it was the shortest of the last three trucks and was a joy do drive around. 

Leap forward to the current truck. F350 Crew Cab 4x4 with 6.5' bed. The first thing I got for this truck which was purchased with the LE2 in mind, was a fiberglass camper shell. There is more than enough secure storage in the bed under the cap. We even got a fitted "Airbedz" inflatable mattress that's the size of a queen bed. If we happen to have guests travel with us they could sleep comfortably in the back of the truck, plenty of room to stretch out. The new truck is still much more maneuverable than the old dually, is very easy to daily drive and the back seat is very spacious. I can't think of what I would do different if I had to get another new truck. 

I think you will really like the megacab and I think it's worth the other "sacrifices". I really doubt you'll feel like you have insufficient storage with the short bed, but you will have an easier driving truck. Regarding the 30 gallon tank, there are aftermarket companies that can fix you up with a larger replacement tank even with the short bed configuration.

Now I'm going to go there. I was in love with diesels years ago. Nothing could convince me that a gas engine was worth even a consideration. Move forward a few generations and with the epa required "clean diesel" fuel and exhaust management systems, the only way I would buy a diesel would be if I was pulling more than 15000 pounds regularly. I like the power and fuel economy of a diesel, but I don't like the astronomical costs up front, which is mainly because of the additional epa equipment added to the trucks. But I also don't like the added maintenance requirements and expense that comes with the new diesels. You mentioned trying to save money by getting lower level trim packages, but you could also save 10 grand or more up front by skipping the diesel. And you would get a much simpler and easier to maintain truck with a standard gas engine. I don't blame you if you are in love with the diesel choice, I get it. But that's another "feature" that you really don't need at all if your main load is an Olliver LE2. Oh, did I mention diesel averages a dollar more a gallon. I know they get better mileage but there went a lot of the "advantage" until the fuel prices come down a lot closer the gasoline prices, if they ever do. With epa regs tightening up over the next decade the price spread will probably get bigger. 

There's my two and a half cents. 

[JDAstroPhoto]

Thank-you so much for taking the time to write that up.  

I know, I know, I did the analysis in 1990 on the Cummins Engine when I was looking for a truck, and even back then it was more than 100,000 miles before you broke even.  So I never pulled the trigger.  Now it is over double that, so you will never break even.  But that engine, the sound, the torque, it is really something.  You mentioned 10 grand, it's more like 12 grand for the HO and Aisin Trans.  Believe me, I've been trying to talk myself out of the engine for 2 weeks, but I can't seem to do it.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, JDAstroPhoto said:

Ram 3500 Cummins HO with the Aisin transmission

Our 2018 Ram has this transmission. We love it! We bought it new. We have the crew cab with an eight foot bed, single axel, and an aftermarket 42 gallon fuel tank. It is a pleasure to tow with. Going off-road, we definitely enjoy the torque the truck can provide. No regrets on the truck in any way. We have owned a dual rear axle truck (Ford F350 6.7 L) and I would never want one for the E2, mainly because of lost maneuverability. If a had to buy another truck today, I would make the same choice.

Kirk

[MobileJoy]

We have a 2020 F250 Lariat SRW with the 7.3L gas and 10-speed transmission. AFAIK, the trans is the same one used with the PowerStroke 6.7L diesel. The 7.3L was designed as a work truck engine with longevity in the mind of the designers. Ford is using it in just about all of their heavy duty vehicles. We have about 45K miles and no hiccups at all. Towing OEII we get about 10-11mpg, mostly highway, 70MPH maximum with cruise control in use. The truck gets about 17-18mpg highway with luggage not towing, and about 13mpg around town. These numbers are calculated on every tank as miles/gallons. The lie-o-meter reads about 0.8mpg high on average.

The crew cab is quite large and comfortable, and we often use it for cargo in lieu of the bed. When camping on trips lasting 5 weeks or more, the 6'9" bed has been more than adequate. Regarding 3/4 vs 1 ton, I was enamored of the F350 for quite some time, but eventually decided that the F250 was more appropriate as its GVWR of 10K lbs (5T) passes lots of weight-limited roads. Cargo rating for my truck is just over 3,000lbs. We knew we would only be towing an OEII before we purchased so we were able to optimize. I eliminated the 1/2 ton class because of limited cargo weight capacity and the need to use the Andersen hitch.

The combined length is just over 44'. We have had no problem fitting in all of the campgrounds we've been to. Little boon docking so far, and no problems there either. I use the truck as a daily driver and have accustomed myself to parking in less crowded spots. Fitting in lined parking spots width-wise is not an issue, but the truck is a bit long for most spots.

9 hours ago, Steph and Dud B said:

My turning radius is similar to the Queen Mary, but there's TONS of storage under the Diamondback bed cover. We can carry all kinds of camping gear in the truck. I actually need a hook to reach stuff at the front of the bed.

This is our experience also. Turning radius is large. We also use a Diamondback cover and it makes front bed access possible.

It was the 7.3L engine and the backup assist feature that ultimately caused me to decide for Ford vs RAM and GM. This is our first truck and trailer. After nearly 2 years and about 6500 miles towing on flats and over eastern mountains I have no regrets. TFLT tested a nearly identical 2020 F250 on the Ike Gauntlet and it did very well (ours and theirs had the 7.3L and 3.55 axle).

I was also very interested in going diesel because of the power and added range. I decided against it because of more limited fueling places, more difficult to get serviced (requiring a shop that can handle diesels), added expense (both purchase and maintenance) and complexity, regeneration requirements and "limp" mode when late servicing emissions, DEF, potentially very expensive repair should the fuel system fail in certain ways, and higher fuel cost removing the MPG advantage. Had I gone diesel, I would probably own a Ram 2500.

Good luck with your decision. I know it is a tough one, and even more so if you have more needs for your TV than just towing an OEII.

[Frank C]

I wanted a very capable but still somewhat compact truck as a tow vehicle so I went in the opposite direction of your thinking.  I found an F-250 SuperCab (rear suicide doors) with short (6’-9”) bed.  It’s only my wife and me when we travel, and this truck keeps the overall length a bit more reasonable for maneuvering around with the truck, but still has a lot of room in the cab and the bed, and huge towing and payload capacity.  The SuperCab has no door pillar between the front and rear doors when the doors are open, so it’s very easy access to the rear seats.  We do a lot of day trips with the truck after setting up the camper at the campground, so I wanted something at least a little more “compact” (a relative term when we are talking about a 3/4 ton truck 🙂) to make it easier to get around in downtown areas, parking lots, narrow roads, etc as we do our exploring during the day. 

[Ollie-Haus]

12 hours ago, JDAstroPhoto said:

Thank-you so much for taking the time to write that up.  

I know, I know, I did the analysis in 1990 on the Cummins Engine when I was looking for a truck, and even back then it was more than 100,000 miles before you broke even.  So I never pulled the trigger.  Now it is over double that, so you will never break even.  But that engine, the sound, the torque, it is really something.  You mentioned 10 grand, it's more like 12 grand for the HO and Aisin Trans.  Believe me, I've been trying to talk myself out of the engine for 2 weeks, but I can't seem to do it.

I laughed at this comment because I was the same way. Used to go to all the diesel truck pulls, subscribed to tuner magazines back in the day and all that. I get it. I'm older now and getting quite settled in practicality more and more these days. I'm also a little nostalgic when it comes to the old school big block gas engines these days, takes me back to my youth. But low and behold you can save a ton of money buying a truck with a "new" old school engine. I know they don't perform like the high output diesels, but they are so much better than the engines we used to love when we were right out of high school. And coupled to a modern 10 speed and wow can they pull. I open the hood of my truck and I can actually see all eight spark plugs (coils) and if I get up above that tall engine compartment l can see all the way to the ground. It's like they made a 180 and started making basic again. Anyway You know what will make you happy in the end and that's what counts. 

I do like many of the creature comforts that come on the upscale packages though. I get pretty sore and stiff driving more than an hour or two and for that I really love heated and cooled seats with the massaging feature. It really takes the misery  out of a 5 hour drive. I also love adaptive cruise control. I'm never in a giant hurry to get there ahead of the rest of the world, so setting my cruise at 65-70 and just letting the traffic "pull me down the road" is perfect for me. Pulling the Ollie I won't be going any faster than that anyway. 

I was in your shoes about three years ago when we were finalizing our truck and RV acquisition plans. The nice thing is with a new truck and an Oliver, you have the best value scenario in many ways. You have a truck that's separate from the RV which multiplies it's value in every way. And you have an RV that will last decades and really retain it's value. and when you get where you're going you have your sight seeing vehicle with you.  Motorhomes just seem like a nightmare to me when it comes to service and overall value. And logistically you have to own more vehicles when you go that route. And the stick built campers are just a mistake. Sure they work but you loose your rear and they are just replete with quality issues.  

I'm looking forward to seeing what you get and maybe we'll sit around the campsite talking trucks and horsepower some day. 😆

[Mike and Carol]

We have the Laramie trim, Crew Cab and 6’4” bed.  It’s my daily driver when not towing.  When we camp, we fold the back seats flat for extra storage.  The bed has been nice (I was coming from half tons with a smaller bed).  The fuel tank is no issue, we have to stop for other reasons before it gets empty anyway!  I get a couple miles more per gallon with the diesel than I did with the gas V8’s and towing is noticeably easier.   I wouldn’t want a much longer truck, I do garage mine and have only about 5” of space in front and behind in the garage.  We live in the land of big pickup trucks everywhere, but parking can still be challenging even with our shorter wheelbase.  I usually park out where I have maneuver room.  We also like the Laramie trim level.  Mike

[JDAstroPhoto]

I was wondering if anyone has looked at, or tried, the auto-level air suspension?  With 700 - 800 lbs of tongue weight on a Single Axle 3500, I was wondering how many inches the LEII pushed the tail down (No Weight Distribution Hitch).  Enough that it tilts the headlights up?  

"The auto-level rear air suspension delivers a smooth, comfortable ride with automatic load-leveling in response to pressure from a trailer hitch or due to shifting cargo or changes in road camber. The driver can also adjust the suspension height with a push of a button to make connecting and disconnecting a trailer even easier."

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, JDAstroPhoto said:

Enough that it tilts the headlights up?  

Our headlights were tilted up enough to cause problems for us and oncoming traffic. We added Firestone airbags with an air compressor and Bluetooth control via the Firestone app. It has been convenient and effective. Highly recommended so far. 
Kirk

[John E Davies]

27 minutes ago, snakeriveridaho said:

Our headlights were tilted up enough to cause problems for us and oncoming traffic. We added Firestone airbags with an air compressor and Bluetooth control via the Firestone app. It has been convenient and effective. Highly recommended so far. 
Kirk

LOL,  this is the first time I have read here about anyone blinding oncoming traffic. I have airbags but they are not needed for the lights. I have a Land Cruiser Magic Switch.

John Davies

Spokane WA

[Rivernerd]

1 hour ago, John E Davies said:

I have a Land Cruiser Magic Switch.

We have a similar headlight height adjustment wheel on our 2019 Tundra SR5.  Until I remembered it came on the truck, I wondered why the headlights were set so low!  Duhhh!

[Mountainman198]

I have owned a Dodge 3500 crew cab SRW (single rear wheel), 8' box for the last 20 yrs.  Even my 2018 Tundra is a crew cab with 8' bed.  Both trucks have hard shell toppers/. My views on trucks is rigid old school and that anything less than a 8' bed is not a true pickup.  I realize this is a personal and likely silly opinion to hold and like my face, it is not for everyone. 😉 

This said, I have never wished either of my trucks had larger cabs or shorter beds.  When not hauling the Ollie, they serve as junk, plywood, motorcycle, lawnmower haulers and short term camping rigs  Having the 8' bed helps in all of these uses.  The longer wheelbase of each pickup also makes for a stable ride when hauling the trailer.

I would dissuade you from a dually if the only hauling you do is the Ollie. 

 

Best of luck in your search for a Tow Vehicle.

[BBL]

1 hour ago, John E Davies said:

this is the first time I have read here about anyone blinding oncoming traffic.

John - this is a common problem, esp with trucks. First, they are higher off the ground and even if the headlights are level, sometimes they blind on coming traffic.  To make matters worse, fully load the bed and attach a trailer and you get just enough squat to make matters worse.

For those of us without the “magic switch”, airbags are the next best thing to getting back to level. I measure the height of the tailgate to the ground and inflate to bring the truck to factory level.

Seems to work.

Brian

[Geronimo John]

1 hour ago, Brian and Brandelyne said:

For those of us without the “magic switch”, airbags are the next best thing to getting back to level. I measure the height of the tailgate to the ground and inflate to bring the truck to factory level.

Brian:

I'll be getting my first set of air bags this season.  So please pardon the "New Bagger" question.  I am hoping to be able to restore proper head light aim, and fully restore the truck to factory level so as to maximize spring travel.  Is this realistic?

Thanks,

GJ

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, Geronimo John said:

first set of air bags this season.  So please pardon the "New Bagger" question.  I am hoping to be able to restore proper head light aim, and fully restore the truck to factory level so as to maximize spring travel.  Is this realistic?

The Firestones we have will put your headlights right where you want them. It’s very easy and fast to adjust them to proper level or beyond if wanted to. 

[Ollie-Haus]

Having a 350 crew cab truck you wouldn't think air bags would be needed with the lite tongue weight of the LE2. Unfortunately we often get the brights flash from oncoming cars at night thinking I'm driving with high beams, even with no load on the truck.

I've confirmed my headlight aim is correct and it still happens. As has been mentioned by others, our truck rides much taller than most stock trucks, but the problem is actually due to the projector beam LED headlight having a very focused cut off line for the top of light beam. with the slightest rise in the road contour you can see the focus line rise above the eye level of the oncoming car. For that reason I have already purchased the bluetooth controlled air bags for the rear suspension to make possible correcting headlight aim while loaded.

If your new truck will have LED headlights, I would recommend you get the factory leveling system. Oncoming traffic will appreciate your effort.

BTW, sometimes folks will just turn their brights on instead of just giving a quick flash. If they are far enough away to not cause a safety concern, I will give them a quick taste of the high beams, I call this an appreciation flash. When they see how bright the actual high beams are, they appreciate the low beams much more.  

[Bristol 32]

I think you're going to need a bigger Ollie.

[BBL]

1 hour ago, Geronimo John said:

I am hoping to be able to restore proper head light aim, and fully restore the truck to factory level so as to maximize spring travel.  Is this realistic?

 

John,  I agree with @snakeriveridaho - the airbags will level your headlights and then some. The trick is to find the happy medium where your headlights are level and you are not bounced out of your seat when you hit a bump.  I usually run about 20 psi when loaded down and 10 psi unloaded.

I cheaped out and decided not to get air on board, or the remote, or the app, etc.  Old school, manual air fill is fine by me.

One week before we pick up the LE II.

Brian

[BBL]

36 minutes ago, Ollie-Haus said:

I've confirmed my headlight aim is correct and it still happens.

This is a fairly well known artifact of LED headlamps in general. People find them too bright. I like you approach (same as mine) little taste of SuperDuty high beams usually does the trick!

Brian