Made in USA leaf springs

[mountainoliver]

To add to my previous response. Oliver mixed and matched axle components in an effort to create an axle that was more durable than the standard version. No other camper manufacturer that I know of provides beefed up axle assemblies. They just use something standard and that’s why other campers experience more failures than the Oliver. 

[mountainoliver]

Correction to my previous comment. My axles are 3500 pound rated and 1750 pound rated springs. Sorry for the confusion.

Edited April 2 by mountainoliver
Clarification

[MAX Burner]

We departed the ABQ area mid-morning and are now boon docking near Amarillo, FYI.  Even saw another Oliver enroute, "Buck and Ollie"!

This thread has been very informative for us regarding spring packs.  Perhaps owners will become more attentive to the "dirty side" of their Olivers - as the undercarriage and specifically, the running gear, might be overlooked for some.  It's definitely not as sexy as other areas of the OTT, for sure.  But, it's where the rubber meets the road that concerns us.  It would be good for everyone reading this thread to crawl underneath an learn what type of axles they may have.  We learned that 3500# axles can be either 2-3/8" or 3" diameter at the same weight rating.  Each takes a different size of U-bolt.   As noted in an earlier post, each has a different torque specification as well.  As responsible owners, we should know what U-bolts we're riding on and what the respective torque specs are.

Here's a good one:  During our spring-pack R&R, we noticed that on the last set of U-bolts, there weren't any washers!  At some point in our Oliver's life, the U-bolt nuts were installed and torqued without them.  You can't get an accurate torque value without washers.  We never noticed this condition until just last weekend as we were finishing up.  Just another thing to look for when you're crawling around under there...

@Patriot's well thought out approach to have a spare spring pack/U-bolt kit on board is rock solid.  Especially, considering the Dexter 5-year warranty implications.  Good on you, brother.

Please note:  If U-bolts are replaced, either by emergency durning on the road conditions, or by modification/upgrade in controlled conditions - please mind the torque procedure.  Specifically, re-torque after first 50 miles, then at 100 miles, finally at 500 miles.  Check torque settings annually - easy enough to do at the same time you're servicing your EZ-Flex suspension, wheel bearings, and doing your shock absorber inspection.

We completed the first 2 torque drills today while headed eastbound on I-40 towards Amarillo.  New U-bolts actually stretch until finally torqued after the 500 mile check.  We'll be doing the 500 mile check tomorrow.  It's amazing how much additional tightening was needed to meet the torque specs on the first 2 inspections.  Bottom line, loose U-bolts can cause spring failures.

Very strong left to right wind conditions while towing today, the Casablanca was rock solid back there - like always.  The peace of mind is well worth the effort we went through over the past several days performing this mod.  Happy Campers all!

Cheers...

[jd1923]

So @MAX Burner installed all new performance leaf springs last week, likely other maintenance included, and is already 100s of miles from home today. Love you brother!

Reminds me of when I first met my wife, was spring of 1992 and I was restoring a 1967 Buick LeSabre, loved that car! She wanted to do Spring Break in Florida to visit her mom and brothers (was 2 years before we got married). I promised her, I would drive her and her kids down (Chicago to Ft Laud) in the Buick!

It was a week out from our trip and the LeSabre was up on blocks, finishing a suspension/brake system rebuild, wheels off, new stereo system installed, yet the interior was still laying in the second garage stall...

We left on our Florida trip as planned. One of the memories that founded our new family through the years!

God Speed Art & D and the pups! Keep us posted! JD

[MAX Burner]

@jd1923 - Great story, brother!  Thanks for sharing - you made family memories in the LeSabre just like we are doing today in Casablanca.  Get your hands a little greasy, finish the job, test and inspect your work, wash your hands off - then start enjoying your efforts!  Right?

We'll get the 500-mile inspection completed today somewhere around Denton, TX - FYI.  We'll be enjoying the trip just that much more after that torque inspection...

Thanks to all...

 

 

Edited April 3 by MAX Burner
corrected a fat-finger typo...

[MAX Burner]

UPDATE:  The 500-mile torque inspection was actually a 527-mile torque inspection at a QT in Wichita Falls.  The process is now taking only a couple minutes longer than it takes to fill up our 30+gallon tank in the Tundra.

Still amazed how the new U-bolts stretch - each nut took several quarter turns to reach the target torque value!  We'll be check them every 1k miles for a while.

Interesting Side Note:  Speaking with Mike/Alcan yesterday on a particular boring stretch of HWY 287 somewhere near Electra, TX, we learned how springs are "weight rated."  Evidently, there are several algorithms used by spring manufacturers that rate springs once several parameters are uploaded.  Keep in mind that ll algorithms are not exactly the same - some are more accurate than others.  Values for steel type, width, thickness, alignment pin size, eye-to-eye length, etc., all determine the weight rating.  Alcan uses a highly rated program with a reputation in the industry as being very accurate.  Turns out that virtually all RV manufacturers, industry-wide, use spring packs that either just barely meet RVIA standards or don't meet them at all (depending on the algorithm program used to rate the springs).  When Alcan ran the dimensions of the Chinese-made AXLE TEK spring used on my Oliver, it was "quite a bit less than the rated 1,750# target", according to Mike.  

IMO, this issue goes back to DEXTER and not necessarily Oliver - because, as I understand - but could be wrong, the axle kit (including the spring packs) are supplied by DEXTER.  But even if the AXLE TEK spring packs were tested to and achieved the 1,750# target at manufacturing, after some time (not necessarily road miles, but age) - those springs will flatten (all 4 of our's did) and they will not be able to meet the target rating going forward.  This is due largely to the low quality metallurgy of Chinese steel.  Labor costs, environmental regulations, and manufacturing standards in China are much less, if exist at all, as compared to the US steel industry.

With a suspension travel of barely 2" (just measured it) before the top of the U-bolts smack into the my Oliver's aluminum frame, I want to be sure the springs are doing what they are there to do.  So owners that find themselves crawling around underneath their rigs, this is another inspection point - if your suspension ever "bottomed-out" it will leave an imprint on the frame from the top of the U-bolt.  That's a good indicator your spring-packs have flattened and need attention.

Also IMO, the choice between Chinese-made and US-made leaf springs for travel trailers depends on the specific needs and priorities of the manufacturer or end-user, including considerations of cost, quality, and supply chain reliability.  For businesses emphasizing cost control, the Chinese-made springs may be appealing, whereas for those prioritizing quality, safety, and supporting domestic industries, US-made spring packs might be the preferred option.

So, mindful owners should think about: (1) having their running gear/suspension inspected, and/or (2) upgrading their suspensions if needed, or (3) never approaching their 7k# OTT max GVWR, or (4) towing slowly only on pristine roads, or (5) not worrying about it and see what happens down the road.

Sorry in advance for my rant, it's just my $0.02...

[Mountainman198]

4 minutes ago, MAX Burner said:

UPDATE:  The 500-mile torque inspection was actually a 527-mile torque inspection at a QT in Wichita Falls.  The process is now taking only a couple minutes longer than it takes to fill up our 30+gallon tank in the Tundra.

Still amazed how the new U-bolts stretch - each nut took several quarter turns to reach the target torque value!  We'll be check them every 1k miles for a while.

Interesting Side Note:  Speaking with Mike/Alcan yesterday on a particular boring stretch of HWY 287 somewhere near Electra, TX, we learned how springs are "weight rated."  Evidently, there are several algorithms used by spring manufacturers that rate springs once several parameters are uploaded.  Keep in mind that ll algorithms are not exactly the same - some are more accurate than others.  Values for steel type, width, thickness, alignment pin size, eye-to-eye length, etc., all determine the weight rating.  Alcan uses a highly rated program with a reputation in the industry as being very accurate.  Turns out that virtually all RV manufacturers, industry-wide, use spring packs that either just barely meet RVIA standards or don't meet them at all (depending on the algorithm program used to rate the springs).  When Alcan ran the dimensions of the Chinese-made AXLE TEK spring used on my Oliver, it was "quite a bit less than the rated 1,750# target", according to Mike.  

IMO, this issue goes back to DEXTER and not necessarily Oliver - because, as I understand - but could be wrong, the axle kit (including the spring packs) are supplied by DEXTER.  But even if the AXLE TEK spring packs were tested to and achieved the 1,750# target at manufacturing, after some time (not necessarily road miles, but age) - those springs will flatten (all 4 of our's did) and they will not be able to meet the target rating going forward.  This is due largely to the low quality metallurgy of Chinese steel.  Labor costs, environmental regulations, and manufacturing standards in China are much less, if exist at all, as compared to the US steel industry.

With a suspension travel of barely 2" (just measured it) before the top of the U-bolts smack into the my Oliver's aluminum frame, I want to be sure the springs are doing what they are there to do.  So owners that find themselves crawling around underneath their rigs, this is another inspection point - if your suspension ever "bottomed-out" it will leave an imprint on the frame from the top of the U-bolt.  That's a good indicator your spring-packs have flattened and need attention.

Also IMO, the choice between Chinese-made and US-made leaf springs for travel trailers depends on the specific needs and priorities of the manufacturer or end-user, including considerations of cost, quality, and supply chain reliability.  For businesses emphasizing cost control, the Chinese-made springs may be appealing, whereas for those prioritizing quality, safety, and supporting domestic industries, US-made spring packs might be the preferred option.

So, mindful owners should think about: (1) having their running gear/suspension inspected, and/or (2) upgrading their suspensions if needed, or (3) never approaching their 7k# OTT max GVWR, or (4) towing slowly only on pristine roads, or (5) not worrying about it and see what happens down the road.

Sorry in advance for my rant, it's just my $0.02...

Trusting that RVIA has the consumers interest and safety at forefront is akin to expecting that NADA (North American Automotive Dealers Association) has the end consumers interest at heart. 

Prepping to finally install my Alcan springs today now that the snow has melted.  😀

 

[MAX Burner]

30 minutes ago, Mountainman198 said:

Prepping to finally install my Alcan springs today now that the snow has melted.  😀

Awesome!  Please keep us posted as to what you've learned about your project, specifically, the condition of the old spring packs....  

[Geronimo John]

45 minutes ago, Mountainman198 said:

Prepping to finally install my Alcan springs today now that the snow has melted.  😀

Only concern I have is trailer height changes.  Reason is that I have only about an inch clearance on the barn door frame. 

If it is possible and not already too late to do so, can you get an accurate trailer height difference that the new springs result in?  

Many thanks.

 

[Mountainman198]

39 minutes ago, Geronimo John said:

Only concern I have is trailer height changes.  Reason is that I have only about an inch clearance on the barn door frame. 

If it is possible and not already too late to do so, can you get an accurate trailer height difference that the new springs result in?  

Many thanks.

 

I will not be able to get the measurement as rear springs have already been changed day after my rear two springs failed in Feb. I believe Hobo reported a 3/4” change (higher) at the bumper after his change to Alcan (but this may be partly due to flattening of old springs over time?)
 

1” clearance, WOW. You gotta be doing some serious glute squeezes through that opening in/out at stock height. 

Edited April 4 by Mountainman198

[Geronimo John]

23 minutes ago, Mountainman198 said:

1” clearance, WOW. You gotta be doing some serious glute squeezes through that opening in/out at stock height

Thank you for the get back. 

I may have gained a bit of clearance with the Houghton low profile install.  Not sure how much though. 

I for sure will be going real slow and checking many times our first reinsertion into the barn post ALCON's.  

Will 

[MAX Burner]

12 minutes ago, Geronimo John said:

I may have gained a bit of clearance with the Houghton low profile install.  Not sure how much though. 

Hey, John:

If you're only talking a couple inches of height - air-down your 4 tires enough to get that clearance.  Roll the rig into position in the barn.  This shouldn't damage the tires.  Air them back up once in position.  Problem solved.

[Mountainman198]

First side is swapped. Old Chinese Dexters will go to the recycler and bring scrap value…maybe enough for a soda pop.  A few observations:

1) I put a set of calipers to my 3500# Dexter axles and they are 3” dia. Ubolts provided by Alcan are for 3” dia axles  fit perfect

2) Alcan ubolts are 9/16” rod vs. the smaller (1/2”?) that were stock on my trailer. No worries installing as the holes in the spring retainer plate are large enough to accommodate the larger bolt diameter

3) Alcan ubolts are longer to accommodate increased spring pack height (5 vs. 4 leafs). About 1-1.5” of thread extend below nuts. I plan to leave but you could cut the excess off if it bothers you

4) Torque specs from Alcan for 9/16 ubolts is 90 foot lbs. See attachment

5) Two of my shocks were blown so I am replacing them  A Irwin squeeze clamp works wonders for compressing and installing the shocks after the springs have been bolted in

6)reversed the wet bolts so that the zerks point inward  even with a 90 degree lock-n-lube fitting it was a PITA before  hoping this will be easier  

7) the front springs were still in “ok” shape but starting to flatten.   one rear spring had snapped and the other was bent  

8)the parts for my trailer were sourced during COVID and at the height of demand for RVs. I cannot help but ponder if the RV frenzy and skilled labor shortage during this time played some role in my broken spring and the quality of the other one that was bending.  Oh well, just glad to be safe and be replacing the stock springs  before heading out in a month for another Season of seeing this great Country

Very straight forward swap. Heck, I did it on a tarp in melting CO permafrost. Cannot imagine doing the swap inside on concrete. 🤪 That would be Lux. 

Edited April 4 by Mountainman198

[Geronimo John]

BLUF:  When we get into a hurry, sometimes we miss the elephant in the room.    

I was trying to find an on-line way to get my axles SN/LN Configuration Build Sheet.  Was not successful, so I'll take two aspirins and call Dexter in the morning.  

In the mean time, for reasons unknown, my pea brain wanted to know where our axles are made in China.  So Mr. Google stepped in and told me:

From Dexter Web Site: 

Founded in 1960 by Leonard Dexter, Dexter is recognized as a progressive industry leader providing quality products manufactured in the U.S. and Canada, employing state-of-the-art robotics, precision welding equipment, and automated machining processes.

 Well that can't be true because we have Chinese springs????  So asked specifically a different way:   Are Dexter axles made in the USA?  A second reference said the same thing.    YEP!

All right now I know that can't be right.  I've seen those Chinese springs.  So I asked WHERE ARE THE DEXTER SPRING PLANTS?  

Dexter Plants: Answer is here, and not over >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>HERE

 

 

So at this point I am beginning to believe Mr. Google.  But wait... WHO OWNS DEXTER?  

Dexter Parent Company:  Dexter is owned by DexKo Global, which was formed in 2015 by combining Dexter and AL-KO VT. This combination created a global leader in highly engineered trailer running gear components and systems, with over 130 years of trailer and caravan componentry experience.  DexKo Global is managed out of Novi, Michigan, by a strategic staff focused on leveraging the resources of the combined companies. 

 Well Ok.  But maybe it's a shell company being run by those guys overseas!  Right?  So I asked WHO IS THE LEADERSHIP TEAM FOR DEXKO?  

DexKo Global Leadership Team:

  

 

 So now, my brain has to ask if Dexter makes their axles in the USA, supervised by an American leadership who work for a parent company who is also all American........

How is it that we have Chinese springs in our Dexter axles?

Friends, my brain jumped me into the rabbit hole and we are buried there.  If you want to find us, bring a backhoe because the answer is way beyond me.

GJ

 

 

Edited April 5 by Geronimo John

[Mountainman198]

5 minutes ago, Geronimo John said:

 

How is it that we have Chinese springs in our Dexter axles?

 

I think the answer you got is technically correct, but I do not believe the axle assemblies provided to Oliver by Dexter contain spring packs manufactured by the Dexter Parent company. For example, the springs on my trailer were stamped “EMCO”.  If you do a google search you will find that while EMCO is a US based company, they have a 200,000 sq ft Spring plant in the Hebei Province in China which serves the US market.   At least for my trailer, I am fairly certain this was the manufacturing plant for my Springs. 
 

https://emcoind.com/about-us/

[MAX Burner]

I found very little about AXLETEK - the manufacturer of the 4-pack springs replaced last week.  One likely company with the same name is located on the same block as 2 RV manufacturers and the Lippert Plant at:

Axletek
2700 Ada Drive Elkhart, IN 46514	Indiana	(574) 326-3430   Interesting, no?

[Geronimo John]

19 minutes ago, Mountainman198 said:

I think the answer you got is technically correct, but I do not believe the axle assemblies provided to Oliver by Dexter contain spring packs manufactured by the Dexter Parent company

Neither do I so believe.  

My question has no answer from my end.  And now that I am a little bit informed by Mr. Google of the ownership and leadership of Dexter, nor do I feel it proper  to speculate further from the rabbit hole.    

 

[Geronimo John]

29 minutes ago, Mountainman198 said:

EMCO is a US based company, they have a 200,000 sq ft Spring plant in the Hebei Province in China

Yep, made in China.  There are hundreds of plants there that make springs.  Some great some not.  Who knows.  Most of us surely don't.  Maybe time to chill and give OTT the time they need to fully figure this out from the past and future perspectives.  I feel certain that they are all over this.  

GJ  

[Geronimo John]

 

We could continue to speculate on this a long time.  For me, I'm now hibernating in my rabbit hole on this topic until OTT completes their process.

Now for anything about how to DIY replace our springs or helpful hints from those that have done so.... that's good topic to continue. 

So, I am thinking it would be a good idea for a Moderator to split off the "DIY Replacement of Springs Lessons Learned" topic from this thread.    

[Mountainman198]

Mike in Oliver Service had asked for the specs and contact info for the US made springs I had found as he said they were not aware of any US sourced suppliers and would be interested in what I had found. I told him I would send the info once I had them on my trailer. I forwarded the specs and some pics along with Alcan contact info to him today and he said he would pass it along within Oliver.

[Rivernerd]

On 4/4/2024 at 9:34 AM, MAX Burner said:

When Alcan ran the dimensions of the Chinese-made AXLE TEK spring used on my Oliver, it was "quite a bit less than the rated 1,750# target", according to Mike.  

This test result, when paired with the fact that a number of Elite II owners have experienced leaf spring failure within the first few years of ownership, is distressing to me as an owner of a 2022 LEGACY Elite II.  We paid a premium price (over $80K) for a "Premium Luxury Travel" trailer, which I now know came with cheap, sub-standard Chinese 4-leaf springs that will likely fail soon.  My ALCAN 5-leaf replacement springs have already been received, and will be installed soon, because I don't want the cheap OEM springs to fail on the road somewhere.  Apparently the term "Legacy" is just marketing hype.

Oliver would be well advised to specify that higher-quality, 5-leaf springs be supplied by Dexter with its axles going forward, particularly now that the Elite II base price is over $95K.  How Oliver addresses this issue will tell me a lot about the company.  Perhaps when asked, I should describe it as a "premium-priced trailer with some cheap critical OEM components."

[topgun2]

15 hours ago, Mountainman198 said:

I think the answer you got is technically correct, but I do not believe the axle assemblies provided to Oliver by Dexter contain spring packs manufactured by the Dexter Parent company.

 

46 minutes ago, Rivernerd said:

This test result, when paired with the fact that a number of Elite II owners have experienced leaf spring failure within the first few years of ownership

Yes -the English language is a wonderful thing.  As is the wonderful world of statistics.

Certainly it is possible that the Dexter axles ARE made in the USA.  But, the other parts that are "attached" to those axles could be made in other countries.

I thought I read in one of the posts above some calculations which basically tried to prove that there has been a relatively small number of Olivers that have had the type of spring failures identified in this thread.  Is even one spring failure beyond what is acceptable?

Just because something was made outside the USA doesn't necessarily mean that it is sub-standard or non-premium or less than luxury.  Perhaps there was a "bad batch" of springs due to ?????.  Or, perhaps there was an error in the assembly of certain "packs" of springs.  Or, perhaps the conditions that certain Olivers have been subjected to have been outside the design boundaries of these springs.  Or, etc., etc.,etc..  Is Oliver at "fault" in this regard because they purchased a component of the Oliver Travel Trailer from one of the most reputable axle suppliers in the USA?  Is Dexter at "fault" in this regard because they purchased from a supplier in China and I assumed that they (Dexter) made sure that they (Dexter) was receiving what was paid for?

14 hours ago, Geronimo John said:

We could continue to speculate on this a long time.  For me, I'm now hibernating in my rabbit hole on this topic until OTT completes their process.

I concur with what GJ says in this regard.  Yes, it is each owner's best interest to inspect the suspension (and all other parts within reasonable bounds) - both now and into the future regardless of wherever parts were made or assembled.

Bill

[Geronimo John]

SPRING REPLACEMENT OPTION:  Here is another option for our spring replacements via Dexter.   

With the help of a Moderator, we know that the axle springs on most of our OE2's is their PR4B springs.  They are made in China and we can purchase replacements for $38.95.

I worked my way up three layers at Dexter and their very helpful Technical Services Rep identified another Dexter option that will fit.  It is their PR4 2400 # double eye spring PR4.  This is a four leaf axle spring made of thicker and wider steel.  The cost is $61.99, and it is also made in China. 

DEXTER WARRANTIES:  Dexter manufactured springs come with a 5 year warranty.  Their Chinese made springs have a 1 year warranty.  

THE QUESTION:  That said, we now know how Chinese springs got onto our trailers.  They are Dexter sold.  In at least one perspective, that's good news I think. 

GJ

 

[Geronimo John]

Spring Replacement Build Sheet:

Somewhere up above here in the scores of pages of this thread is a suggestion to get your Dexter axle build sheet(s).  I did so today.  You will need to record the serial numbers of your axle(s).  I took photo's.  

Then call Dexter at (574) 295-7888, Option 1.  Ask them for a copy of your axle build sheet(s) and give them your e-mail address.  That's it. 

Be sure to keep a copy of your build sheet(s) in your trailer so that down the road you are not wishing you had it.

Great Customer Services from all four of the Dexter areas I have spoken to today.

GJ

 

Edited April 5 by Geronimo John
typo

[Mike and Carol]

I ordered a set of springs this morning.  I was the second order they had this morning.  Lou said they’ve had 4 to 5 orders a week for a while.  They now have an Oliver Kit that includes springs, U bolts, shackles and wet bolts.  Mike