Broken frame crossbeam?

[rideandfly]

I'm going to drop by the race car shop this week. Plan to have it welded. 

As mentioned previously, everyone Ollie owner should inspect their frames. Mine should not be a difficult repair, just need to find a good aluminum welder. 

If you are close to TN, Oliver is still doing fiberglass and aluminum repairs. 🙂

Edited April 8 by rideandfly

[rideandfly]

Talked to the race car shop this morning and he can weld Ollie's frame later this week or next week. He wanted to know what kind of aluminum Ollie's frame was made out of, so I contacted Oliver service department this morning and Mike replied quickly this morning letting me know it's made out of 6061 aluminum. The race car shop was very happy to hear Ollie's frame is made out of a very good quality of aluminum. 🙂

[routlaw]

That's good news and good luck with the weld.

[Patriot]

2 hours ago, rideandfly said:

Talked to the race car shop this morning and he can weld Ollie's frame later this week or next week. He wanted to know what kind of aluminum Ollie's frame was made out of, so I contacted Oliver service department this morning and Mike replied quickly this morning letting me know it's made out of 6061 aluminum. The race car shop was very happy to hear Ollie's frame is made out of a very good quality of aluminum. 🙂

It will look better than new Bill, great work on locating a solid shop. 👍🏻😊

[MAX Burner]

On 4/7/2024 at 6:18 PM, routlaw said:

The big question now is, how many more of these broken welds are running around out there being unnoticed?  

OK, owners...  As a safety measure, let's get our "Mechanic's Crawlers" out there and get underneath our rigs and conduct frame member weld inspections - while you're at it, check your shocks, too...  

A FREE beer from D and me for anyone that posts evidence of broken welds - really.

Cheers,

[routlaw]

Folks I just want to post a quick followup. The good news is I do not see any other broken or cracked welds on our cross braces. But there is some bad news here too. For those of you have had seen the photos I previously linked there is yet another issue to be dealt with. Using all the strength I could muster I cannot push the dangling end of that brace back into position, can't even get it close to where it needs to be welded back into place. 

What does this tell me? As much as I hate to say this, it's an extremely poor design concept. Oh and for those wondering I emptied all the holding tanks including fresh water. Cutting to the chase how does anyone have any faith that a repaired weld with continue to hold this brace in place. The only way to get this brace back in position would be with a jack or lift of some sort. Might try it later this afternoon with my bottle jack and see how that goes. 

In the meantime for those of you who were not able to see the pics when the website was having issues with photo uploads I have included two below.

Thanks

[Patriot]

@MAX Burner

After talking with @rideandfly I went out to the Ollie Hangar and rolled up under “XPLOR” and took a good hard look at ALL the frame/chassis welds. All appear to be solid.

Like anything thing else a regular visual inspection should be a part of regular maintenance checklist.
 

“Stack of dimes”. ✅

 

 

 

Edited April 9 by Patriot

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, Patriot said:

Like anything thing else a regular visual inspection should be a part of regular maintenance checklist.

I am going to do that first thing after work today!

Kirk

[rich.dev]

39 minutes ago, routlaw said:

But there is some bad news here too. For those of you have had seen the photos I previously linked there is yet another issue to be dealt with. Using all the strength I could muster I cannot push the dangling end of that brace back into position, can't even get it close to where it needs to be welded back into place.

That’s not good, that means the bottom is bowed/buckled downwards then! 

[CRM]

44 minutes ago, rich.dev said:

That’s not good, that means the bottom is bowed/buckled downwards then! 

Since there really isn't any bracing built into that bottom belly fiberglass, I think bowing is perfectly normal when a brace weld below it breaks. I'm sure it will push right back up into shape with a jack and be fine once repaired.

[routlaw]

Another update. Just returned from Midwest Welding here in town. They have been in business ever since I have lived here and as far as I know have a great reputation. They were able to fit me in almost immediately this afternoon and make the welding repairs. While I was not allowed to watch them make the repairs, I would like to point out even the superintendent could not move by hand the brace back into place. He was a bit bigger and most likely much stronger than me. 

These guys are experts and here is what he told me and said it more than once emphatically. Do not go down the road with a full fresh water tank ever, otherwise there will be more breaks in these crossbeams. I think he has a very good point and this is something Oliver needs to address due to what I feel is a very poor structural design for its intended purpose. FWIW and with all do respect, I do not agree with @CRM with above comment, the belly still sags and the brace sags along with it indicating an enormous amount of downward pressure and this with an empty tank. I don't know what this says about traveling down backcountry roads vs paved highways either but the design is probably not cut out for this sort of travel. 

Sorry but I am a bit miffed at the moment and slightly venting. Repair was $103 and change. 

Edited April 10 by routlaw

[Rivernerd]

1 hour ago, routlaw said:

Do not go down the road with a full fresh water tank ever, otherwise there will be more breaks in these crossbeams.

So, no boondocking?  By definition, the places we boondock do not have potable water supplies, so we carry our fresh water in the tank from home.

Please include that advice from your welder in a service ticket.  Oliver Service needs to know that at least one reputable welding establishment believes the Elite II cannot safely carry a loaded fresh water tank as designed.

 

[routlaw]

10 minutes ago, Rivernerd said:

So, no boondocking?  By definition, the places we boondock do not have potable water supplies, so we carry our fresh water in the tank from home.

Please include that advice from your welder in a service ticket.  Oliver Service needs to know that at least one reputable welding establishment believes the Elite II cannot safely carry a loaded fresh water tank as designed.

 

Good point, thus far I have not contacted Oliver about this but your advice is well taken. I will add this in all fairness, we have owned this TT for 9 years, some 25K miles and driven many backroads in that time and this is the first time we experienced this failure. However I still stand behind my previous comment, this is a poor design for its intended use. Like you we also camp most of the time where fresh water is not available, and just as important its deep backcountry for our adventures which requires gravel backcountry roads. Thanks

[Geronimo John]

3 hours ago, routlaw said:

Sorry but I am a bit miffed at the moment and slightly venting. Repair was $103 and change. 

 

As one of the more senior aged trailers (2015 OE2 Hull #70), a key piece of info of interest is "Has the frame design changed over the years" and if so, "How and When"?

GJ

[rich.dev]

4 minutes ago, Geronimo John said:

"Has the frame design changed over the years" and if so, "How and When"?

Good question yes!

[rideandfly]

13 hours ago, routlaw said:

Good point, thus far I have not contacted Oliver about this but your advice is well taken. I will add this in all fairness, we have owned this TT for 9 years, some 25K miles and driven many backroads in that time and this is the first time we experienced this failure. However I still stand behind my previous comment, this is a poor design for its intended use. Like you we also camp most of the time where fresh water is not available, and just as important its deep backcountry for our adventures which requires gravel backcountry roads. Thanks

Will be interesting to see Oliver's solution.

Started looking at this yesterday, there is 11" between the failed weld crossbeam and next crossbeam to the front on #75 LE2. The crossbeam behind the crossbeam with failed weld is over 13".

The same size and length of aluminum 6061 channel could be welded equal distance between the crossbeam with failed weld and crossbeam to the front to reinforce this area with rubber sandwiched between the channel and fiberglass like the original channel.  Probably not needed, but the same could be done between the next beam to the rear, too. Just a thought.

 

Edited April 10 by rideandfly

[rideandfly]

jd1923's following thread about a crossbeam weld break  posted earlier in this thread, just wanted to re-post so it is not missed, jd1923 hope you don't mind:

 

Edited April 10 by rideandfly

[routlaw]

Submitted a ticket first thing this morning. No response yet of course.

[jd1923]

Looks like the broken welds are in the same location behind the curbside leveler.

[routlaw]

3 minutes ago, jd1923 said:

Looks like the broken welds are in the same location behind the curbside leveler.

Yes and where the fresh water tank apparently presents the heaviest load. 

[jd1923]

2 minutes ago, routlaw said:

Yes and where the fresh water tank apparently presents the heaviest load. 

@routlaw hull #70 and our hull #113 have the same doubled support.

@Patriot with hull #634 does not appear to have the same doubled support. Perhaps the newer hulls will not have this same issue in the same location.

[mountainoliver]

The rear most end of my fresh tank is about at the center of the rear most axle. I think that the rear end of the grey tank is about even with the rear jack mounting. From these tanks rearward my trailer has nothing between the hulls. Basically both my grey and fresh tanks are above the galvanized steel subframe and it’s cross members. So for my trailer anyway no real load on the aluminum cross members at the rear. The aluminum cross members on my trailer are also doubled as well. 

Edited April 10 by mountainoliver
Added content

[rideandfly]

The weld cracked on our Ollie where the cross member was doubled under the hot water heater.

Scheduled to have the crack welded on Friday.

Question, would doubling the crossmember material create more stress on the welds due to less flexibility?

[routlaw]

12 minutes ago, rideandfly said:

 

Question, would doubling the crossmember material create more stress on the welds due to less flexibility?

Interesting concept and good question. In the meantime have not heard back from Oliver on my ticket.

[rideandfly]

It might take longer than  normal for an answer if your question has to go to engineering.