Replacing shocks when upgrading leaf springs

[John Welte]

Hi all, I plan to replace the four leaf spring type with Alcan five leaf type springs.  The weak point in the four leaf spring type is that three inch section to the eye that's a single piece.  Our trailer is hull number 1290, one of the last built in 2022.  I thought it might be good to replace the shocks at the same time.  I have about 12,000 miles on the trailer.  My question is what model number and brand is best?

John

[Geronimo John]

22 hours ago, John Welte said:

The weak point in the four leaf spring type is that three inch section to the eye that's a single piece. 

If you had said "OEM Leaf Spring" I would of course agree 100%.  Its only got about 11 pounds of metal and most of us agree it is undersized/undersprung for OTT OE2 fleet wide use.

The Dexter 2400 pound rated PB4   PR4   is a bunch more beefy spring than the OEM ones.  It weighs about a pound less than the Alcan's.  So to cast dispersion on ALL four leaf springs is a streach at best.  It is also an exact fit without any of the user's reported challenges that have posted about the Alcan's.

GJ

Edited August 10 by Geronimo John
typo

[rich.dev]

37 minutes ago, Geronimo John said:

The Dexter 2400 pound rated PB4 is a bunch more beefy spring than the OEM ones

GJ, is PB4 a typo, isn't it PR4?

[rich.dev]

1 hour ago, John Welte said:

My question is what model number and brand is best?

I believe this bulldog shock is a direct replacement for the Monroe 555001  https://www.4statetrucks.com/bulldog-hd-shock-absorber-replaces-555001-19-050000007

 

[jd1923]

I've been wondering... Some have reported that when upgrading to the Alcan spring it has increased ride height up to an inch and that there is more travel in the leaf spring. Should a replacement shock allow for the greater travel?

The Monroe 555001 is the OEM spring. Monroe also has the 555025 model, which is the same overall yet slightly longer with greater stroke. I copied these specs from the 4statetrucks website, as Bulldog has aftermarket replacements for both models:

Shock Specs	555001	555025
Compressed (in)	7.95	8.66
Extended (in)	11.97	13.35
Stroke (in)	4.02	4.69

Perhaps those who have installed Alcan springs can chime in?

@Mountainman198 @MAX Burner @ScubaRx and @rideadeuce
Did the shocks installed appear the correct length or would it allow for +3/4" in compressed length and +3/4"stroke be a better fit? Sure, the OEM length fit, but would +3/4" in stroke allow the slightly taller springs to perform without constraint? When I get the chance to make this upgrade, I would take before and after measurements on one side prior to ordering (let her sit on jacks stands a couple days to get the right part). I'm figuring 3/4" longer should be better. This has been a discussion on other TT forum websites. Stronger spring rate in the shock would also be preferred although Monroe does not list these specs.

Either way I would choose Bulldog over the Monroe OEM brand. Bulldog describes their products as a "High Quality Aftermarket Replacement Part (Not OEM)." This is the ~+3/4" longer version:  Bulldog HD RV Shock Absorber Replaces 555025 For Trailer Leaf Spring Retro Kit - 4 State Trucks

[Mike and Carol]

In May before the rally, Oliver service replaced my springs, shocks, bearings and brakes.  Jason did not mention any issues fitting the ALCAN springs I brought.  I’m sure they used the stock Monroe shocks.  I don’t notice my trailer sitting any higher, although I’m not sure I’d be able to discern a .5-.75” difference.  After our summer trip through Colorado and Utah we didn’t notice any significant difference in the ride either.  This should be a good setup as we start our second 100,000 miles.  Mike

[Mountainman198]

Seemed to have plenty of available up/down travel with the stock monroes after installing the Alcan springs. I plan to look long and hard at the Bulldog shocks when the monroes wear out

[John Welte]

3 hours ago, Mountainman198 said:

Seemed to have plenty of available up/down travel with the stock monroes after installing the Alcan springs. I plan to look long and hard at the Bulldog shocks when the monroes wear out

I get the impression that the Bulldog shocks are better made.  They don't seem very expensive.  Is your Monroe shock the 555001.  I can look at what the equivalent number is on the Bulldog.  Thanks

John 

[Mountainman198]

6 hours ago, John Welte said:

I get the impression that the Bulldog shocks are better made.  They don't seem very expensive.  Is your Monroe shock the 555001.  I can look at what the equivalent number is on the Bulldog.  Thanks

John 

Yes, stock shock for my trailer is the 555001. Appreciate the lookup of the equivalent Bulldog. 

[Geronimo John]

20 hours ago, rich.dev said:

GJ, is PB4 a typo, isn't it PR4?

You are correct.  PR4  Thanks for the catch.  

GJ

[Jim and Chris Neuman]

Can anyone tell here are the Bulldog shocks are made?

[John Welte]

5 hours ago, Mountainman198 said:

Yes, stock shock for my trailer is the 555001. Appreciate the lookup of the equivalent Bulldog. 

Here is what I found out.

[rideandfly]

We installed Bulldogs this year.

 

Edited August 11 by rideandfly

[MAX Burner]

We echo @Mike and Carol's comments above.  As reported in another thread, we replaced our 12-month old Monroe shocks after we replaced the axles & leaf springs last May.  I was surprised that 3 of the 4 Monroes were toast after only 8k miles - but we were not in a  position to acquire a set of Bulldogs (in Hohenwald at the time) so we replaced them with OEM Monroes.

We've logged just north of 6k miles since May and we function-checked the OEMs at the 5k-mile point - all good.  We also checked axle U-bolt nut torques at the same time - all within specs.

I'm thinking with the max travel of the axle set being approximately 4-1/4" (2-1/8" up and 2-1/8" down) that the longer stroked Bulldog (4.69") option would be fine given the slightly higher lift with the Alcans.  Also, I believe that any higher rated leaf spring will tend to dampen the OTT load at a lower frequency and shorter stroke when under tow as compared to the OEM 4-pack 1,750# springs.  This may allow the shock absorbers to last longer, IMO.

Regarding towing the Casablanca with upgraded running gear:  Like Mike mentioned, no appreciable difference observed in towing during this last 6k+ miles - other than a general overall "solid" feel and less "porpoising" at slower speeds over rougher roads.  We reduced the electrical trailer brake gain from 6.0 down to 4.5 due largely to the 12" drums' greater braking action.  The OTT always pulled like a champ, anyway - its, quantitatively, a more "confident" towing experience and a "peace of mind" in the overall running gear with the upgrade.

Bulldogs are definitely on our radar screen for a swap-out probably when the 10k-mile point is reached on the existing Monroes, FYI.

Cheers, All!

Edited August 12 by MAX Burner

[New2Oliver]

FYI.  Bulldog has not made a run of these shocks in quite some time.  If you order them from somewhere, make sure they actually have them in stock.  Some places hit your card and then you wait until Bulldog makes a run and then Bulldog sends them direct.  I was told my shocks should come this week.  I ordered them a couple of months ago.

[DunnYet]

On 8/18/2024 at 3:50 PM, New2Oliver said:

FYI.  Bulldog has not made a run of these shocks in quite some time.  If you order them from somewhere, make sure they actually have them in stock.  Some places hit your card and then you wait until Bulldog makes a run and then Bulldog sends them direct.  I was told my shocks should come this week.  I ordered them a couple of months ago.

Yep - I came across this thread and ordered from 4State. They said “ships in three days” but it’s been almost a month so far. When I contacted 4State they seemed puzzled as to why I was concerned that I had not received the product. Good to know I’m not the only one waiting on these.

[ScubaRx]

On 8/18/2024 at 3:50 PM, New2Oliver said:

FYI.  Bulldog has not made a run of these shocks in quite some time.  If you order them from somewhere, make sure they actually have them in stock.  Some places hit your card and then you wait until Bulldog makes a run and then Bulldog sends them direct.  I was told my shocks should come this week.  I ordered them a couple of months ago.

This would be unacceptable to me. When I decide I want/need something, I want it today or, at most, Amazon Prime quick. While installing our Alcan Springs, I discovered that two of my last set of Monroe's (bought from Amazon, about $40 each) had lasted less than two years. Needing to replace them that day, I went in search of a new set.

I was unable to locate a full set locally but O'Reilly Auto Parts told me they could have a full set by the next morning. I decided that was quick enough. The only downside was they were about $60 each. After checking with Oliver, I was told that they charge $68 each, so I figured that was OK.

When I went to pick them up the next day, I was pleasantly surprised to learn that a life time replacement warranty was included in the price. It is available to the Original purchaser as long as they own the vehicle. Additionally, you do not have to keep up with your receipt or proof of purchase if you have a (free) online account with them. Just bring the old shock back and it is replaced at no cost.

I called around to the other local auto part players and they all stated the warranty was the Monroe provided two years.

[Ronbrink]

12 hours ago, DunnYet said:

They said “ships in three days”

I ordered mine in advance of need back in May, shipped within three days; guess I got lucky! Seems 4 State Trucks should express more concern regarding their Customer Service and be more upfront about supply related delays. 

[1Lessworker]

Looks like both Billdog and Monroe "Made in China" (So sad)

[johnwen]

On 8/20/2024 at 11:38 PM, ScubaRx said:

This would be unacceptable to me. When I decide I want/need something, I want it today or, at most, Amazon Prime quick. While installing our Alcan Springs, I discovered that two of my last set of Monroe's (bought from Amazon, about $40 each) had lasted less than two years. Needing to replace them that day, I went in search of a new set.

I was unable to locate a full set locally but O'Reilly Auto Parts told me they could have a full set by the next morning. I decided that was quick enough. The only downside was they were about $60 each. After checking with Oliver, I was told that they charge $68 each, so I figured that was OK.

When I went to pick them up the next day, I was pleasantly surprised to learn that a life time replacement warranty was included in the price. It is available to the Original purchaser as long as they own the vehicle. Additionally, you do not have to keep up with your receipt or proof of purchase if you have a (free) online account with them. Just bring the old shock back and it is replaced at no cost.

I called around to the other local auto part players and they all stated the warranty was the Monroe provided two years.

I installed mine a few hundred miles ago...seem to be doing fine.  Thanks, Steve, for the O'Reilly tip :)

John

Edited August 22 by johnwen

[New2Oliver]

On 8/21/2024 at 5:24 PM, johnwen said:

I installed mine a few hundred miles ago...seem to be doing fine.  Thanks, Steve, for the O'Reilly tip 🙂

John

I tried ORielly's for the bulldogs first.  They took my money.  Then, without telling me, cancelled the order about a week later.  They knew then what I found out later.  That Bulldog did not have the parts.  I had to request a refund.

 

This is not anyone's fault but mine.  This is not 1974.  This is 2024.  Without getting too philosophical, the Oliver is a complex system.  Complex systems do not survive incompetency.  Whether it is a space capsule or a travel trailer, you have to anticipate incompetency and plan around it.  Parts, service, whatever.  Every aspect of your life.  Plan for it.  I made the mistake of thinking that the Bulldogs were just magically going to be available. 

[Going Coastal]

On 8/20/2024 at 8:28 PM, DunnYet said:

Yep - I came across this thread and ordered from 4State. They said “ships in three days” but it’s been almost a month so far. When I contacted 4State they seemed puzzled as to why I was concerned that I had not received the product. Good to know I’m not the only one waiting on these.

I'm in the same boat...I ordered from 4State 3 weeks ago...and received an email last week stating they would be drop shipped from their supplier the Week of September 1.  Not sure when I'll get them.

[MAX Burner]

On 8/22/2024 at 9:01 PM, New2Oliver said:

you have to anticipate incompetency and plan around it.  Parts, service, whatever.  Every aspect of your life.  Plan for it.

Concur 100%.  That's totally an element of our planning process - it starts with Rule #1:  "One is none, Two is One".  Then we go forward from there anticipating where the weak link is in whatever "complex system" we're dealing with....

Edited Thursday at 12:07 PM by MAX Burner

[DunnYet]

On 8/26/2024 at 10:10 AM, Going Coastal said:

I'm in the same boat...I ordered from 4State 3 weeks ago...and received an email last week stating they would be drop shipped from their supplier the Week of September 1

For what it's worth - I reached out to 4State yesterday after my Aug 27 shipping date passed with no update. The magic date for shipment is now September 15. Since it seems from this discussion we are all waiting for a batch to be built, I'm guessing this will impact everyone that is waiting for them.

Quote

Alright Kevin.. I just got a response, and it looks like this has been extended out. It is now estimated to ship to you from the vender approximately 9/15!

Cue "Fly Like an Eagle" ... "Time keeps on slippin' slippin' slippin' into the future"

 

[Going Coastal]

3 hours ago, DunnYet said:

For what it's worth - I reached out to 4State yesterday after my Aug 27 shipping date passed with no update. The magic date for shipment is now September 15. Since it seems from this discussion we are all waiting for a batch to be built, I'm guessing this will impact everyone that is waiting for them.

Cue "Fly Like an Eagle" ... "Time keeps on slippin' slippin' slippin' into the future"

 

Thanks for letting me know...I have my trailer on jack stands w/ wheels off waiting to install these...no telling when they will actually show up....I wonder if these are even better than the monroe shocks.