Battleborn Battery Safety Issue

[John Dorrer]

51 minutes ago, fwunder said:

So you folks are amongst the smartest I've been around so...

What is the outcome? Does Dragonfly simply deny and keep going? Do they admit fault and declare bankruptcy and walk away? I can't imagine a recall of some 400,000 batteries.

What say you?

I just bought a supply of popcorn for the show🤣

[katanapilot]

Not minimizing the potential issue here with the BB batteries (and I have three in the Oliver) - but keep in mind the recent Truma AquaGo issue.  Oliver said there was an issue (and to their credit have been dealing with it) despite the fact that Truma says there is no issue with the AquaGo except in the Oliver trailers. 

One "expert" saying there is an issue does not necessarily make it so.  Doesn't make it not so, either.  

Haven't seen a recall on the transfer switches that burn up, but certainly some indication that there is a problem there, too. 

EDIT: As I contemplate the potential danger here, those of us that have converted to Victron components - it would be pretty easy to add temperature sensors to each battery for monitoring by the Cerbo GX with it's four temperature inputs.  Probably easy to do with other brand components as well. 

Edited Friday at 06:59 PM by katanapilot
added additional text

[fwunder]

59 minutes ago, katanapilot said:

EDIT: As I contemplate the potential danger here, those of us that have converted to Victron components - it would be pretty easy to add temperature sensors to each battery for monitoring by the Cerbo GX with it's four temperature inputs.  Probably easy to do with other brand components as well. 

I do this with my home backup system ( pic below ). Temp sensor(s) on positive battery bank cable close to T-class fuse. It is interesting to watch it rise when pumping 6 kW+ into bank. Like you, I am now considering adding Cerbo GX to trailer ( 2xBB ) or, maybe a meat thermometer w/remote 😀

[John Dorrer]

I will be watching for addition videos from Will

 

 

 

Edited Sunday at 12:00 AM by John Dorrer

[jd1923]

My take… 😎

If you own one or more 100 Ah Battleborn batteries you purchased years ago, let it go and it‘s time to scrap them!

For $670 (less than what you spent on one (1) 100 Ah Battleborn you can purchase the new 320 Ah LiiTime mini! BTW, so cool!

Or for $1200 (I just purchased a 3rd one at 15% OFF for their BF promo) you can buy the Epoch Essentials 300 Ah battery!

We’ll be running 900 Ah for 2026 and beyond, so cool! 😎

Edited Saturday at 04:26 AM by jd1923

[Geronimo John]

11 hours ago, katanapilot said:

DIT: As I contemplate the potential danger here, those of us that have converted to Victron components - it would be pretty easy to add temperature sensors to each battery for monitoring

For those of us with the Victron 712, we have a spare unused port.  One of the uses is for temp monitoring.  I never hooked it  up as it was "Not" needed.  I am rethinking that one for sure!

GJ

[CRM]

21 hours ago, fwunder said:

What is the outcome? Does Dragonfly simply deny and keep going? Do they admit fault and declare bankruptcy and walk away? I can't imagine a recall of some 400,000 batteries.

What say you?

I think they continue to call this obviously bad design a "feature" but in the near future start producing batteries with an "new and improved" way of protecting them from thermal runaway. I also think they stop blaming customers who have batteries that fail at the terminals and just replace batteries still under warranty with no questions asked. If not, I don't see how they'd be able to prove that the terminal damage was caused by "misuse" or from just expansion/contraction due to the use of three different metals and a piece of plastic in their design if a class action suit is ever initiated. I think this is the only way they can continue as an entity and save some of the reputation they've built over the years. I also think they'll have to come WAY down on the price going forward to entice people to buy them again after all this bad publicity.  

[rideandfly]

8 hours ago, Geronimo John said:

For those of us with the Victron 712, we have a spare unused port.  One of the uses is for temp monitoring.  I never hooked it  up as it was "Not" needed.  I am rethinking that one for sure!

GJ

We use a 500A Victron Bluetooth Shunt to monitor battery SOC. After looking at the Victron website, looks like it has a temperature function, too. 

 

[mountainoliver]

I (unfortunately) have three Battle Born batteries that are now six years old. At this point considering the possibility of having to cover shipping costs basically from coast to coast and BB charging me a troubleshooting fee, I’d probably just dump these and go with a different brand. At the time I bought my batteries, BB were the gold standard in lithium batteries. Who knew! I did extensive research and chose them. So for now I’m going to watch them closely and so far I haven’t had the slightest issue with them. The other day I performed a load test with no issues with loading them to 122 amps for about 20 minutes and absolutely no heating issues at the posts. We’ll see.

[mountainoliver]

A follow up to my previous post. FWIW. This issue is exactly why I choose three separate batteries instead of using only one. If one fails or even two fail during a trip, I can easily switch to the remaining good one(s) in the field and not have to make a faulty quick decision in order to provide heat or to keep my compressor fridge running. Anyway something to think about when in this case choosing batteries. 

[Patriot]

😄

Edited Saturday at 07:52 PM by Patriot

[Geronimo John]

On 12/11/2025 at 10:38 PM, 2008RN said:

Hypothetically if 1/2 percent of their 400,000 batteries sold failed , that would be 2,000 batteries.  In a community of higher end trailers, 2000 failures would stick out like a sore thumb.

Part of what concerns me is that earlier they indicated that they have 400,000 of the same design.  

I have insider knowledge that the NTSB has been made aware of our concerns.

John Russell, PE

Russell Engineering

 

[Geronimo John]

6 hours ago, mountainoliver said:

This issue is exactly why I choose three separate batteries instead of using only one. If one fails or even two fail during a trip, I can easily switch to the remaining good one(s) in the field and not have to make a faulty quick decision in order to provide heat or to keep my compressor fridge running.

I have often said:  "I like having options".  Welcome to the keep it simple,  field maintainable, and having options group!

GJ

[Geronimo John]

Ok us BB owners are not real happy just now.  But let's stop for a moment and ponder a bit.  So far none of us OTT's owners to my knowledge have experienced a heat related failure as denomstrated by Will.  Why is that?  Likely because we tend to have several BB's all tied to a 300 amp fuse and virtually no possible way we could stress them further. 

We have been told that each of our 100 AH BB's can produce up to 300 amps of current.  But with three of them we are likely never to be drawing 100 amps from each of our three batteries that would be necessary to fry our fuse.  I have yet to hear that due to overloading  our 300 amp fuses have blown.  Even if there is a unicorn out there, it is a rare one.

But for most of us that went to BB's the reason was to have a system that could run our A/C while off shore power with a 3,000 watt inverter.  That's how we got to buying three BB's.  The OTT OEM ifusing supports this max loading:        (3,000 watts / 75%) /12.5 Volts = 300 amps   

Ok it is resonable that we'll not intnetionally be overloading our fuse.  If we did, it the inverter will support momentary overloads, and we could blow the 300amp fuse.  But how may blown 300 amp fuses have we heard about here in the last 8 seasons?  Ok, point is we don't blow the fuses.  And if we did, it is a mistake we don't repeat.  Hence, enerally speaking in our OTT's we are operating at a current density way under what others likely could be.

So until we know more about what the circumstances are to cause failures such as Will has presented, maybe it would not be prudent to take a fire axe and chop out our BB's .... just yet. But the issue is certainly serious enough to have our attention, and to monitor the temps and keep a close eye on our system demands.   

MOST IMPORTANTLY:  What if you see high temp's on any of your B+ posts, or see discoraraton, or lateral weakness?  I suggest following Will's recommendation.  Just don't use a fire axe though.

GJ

Edited Sunday at 12:36 AM by Geronimo John

[mountainoliver]

Another thing that is most likely the cause for a hot battery lug and has not been mentioned yet……a loose connection to the outside world. Installer error. It’s easy to get a loose connection. We should check all of the 12 volt connections periodically, especially the high amperage ones. When I first installed my lithium batteries and put them under a heavy load I checked all of the welding cable crimped on lugs. Only one factory crimp got hot so I removed it and crimped it again. I have not had a problem with any of the connections getting warm under heavy loads since. Yet something else we need to check, oh goody!

[fwunder]

Quote

 

Part of what concerns me is that earlier they indicated that they have 400,000 of the same design.  

I have insider knowledge that the NTSB has been made aware of our concerns.

John Russell, PE

Russell Engineering

 

Knowing nothing of the process can you elaborate how the NTSB is made aware and what might be the difference between NTSB and NHSTA. Thanks!

[ScubaRx]

38 minutes ago, fwunder said:

Knowing nothing of the process can you elaborate [on] what might be the difference between NTSB and NHSTA. Thanks!

The NTSB (National Transportation Safety Board) investigates transportation accidents to find causes and makes safety recommendations, while the NHTSA (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration) sets and enforces vehicle safety standards, conducts recalls, and creates regulations, essentially acting as the rule-maker and enforcer to the NTSB's investigator/advisor role, though both focus on U.S. transportation safety. NTSB looks backward at incidents (planes, trains, cars) to prevent future ones, whereas NHTSA looks forward, setting rules for cars on the road today, including new tech like automated driving systems (ADS). 

[Ollie-Haus]

Is there a regulatory authority over RV accessories, or would lithium battery suppliers fall under some other regulatory jurisdiction? Not really sure how aftermarket lithium batteries are categorized. Accessories, DIY, OEM, etc. They aren’t specifically dedicated to vehicle or RV markets. Had never really thought about it before. 

[katanapilot]

Going to ask again in a slightly different manner.  Has anyone had a catastrophic or near catastrophic outcome as a result of this feature/defect with the BB batteries?  On the surface, it does appear that there could be an issue that warrants close monitoring.  

On the other hand, if users are unlikely to stress the batteries and/or the connections which can lead to the overheating and subsequent arcing condition - I'm not sure there is an immediate need for removal or a large scale recall.  As has been discussed, a recall of 400,000 batteries would probably end up bankrupting the company - although the bad press from this issue may do that anyway. 

Not saying this is the case, but the headlines that get you to click on a story lead to more $$$ for the person writing the article. 

[Patriot]

3 hours ago, Ollie-Haus said:

Is there a regulatory authority over RV accessories, or would lithium battery suppliers fall under some other regulatory jurisdiction? Not really sure how aftermarket lithium batteries are categorized. Accessories, DIY, OEM, etc. They aren’t specifically dedicated to vehicle or RV markets. Had never really thought about it before. 

Chris, great question. This is what I came up with in a quick open source search. I thought it was worthy of posting here with regard to Li bats. I did some limited work with the CPS folks in my former career mostly on imported consumption products.

https://www.compliancegate.com/lithium-battery-safety-standards-united-states/#Consumer_Product_Safety_Improvement_Act_CPSIA

Edited Sunday at 07:04 PM by Patriot

[Geronimo John]

2 hours ago, katanapilot said:

On the other hand, if users are unlikely to stress the batteries and/or the connections which can lead to the overheating and subsequent arcing condition - I'm not sure there is an immediate need for removal or a large scale recall. 

And that Krea was the percise point of my above "Let's Ponder" post.  Well said.  For most of us with three BB's and a 300 Amp Fuse, we likely will not have a problem.

The following uses some WAG's such as inverter efficiency (75%) and disscharge voltage of 12.5V.  Both of which are just numbers are WAGS.  But for illistration the following provides a basis for "Pondering Further" for a single 100 AH BB install:

A 2,000 watt inverter overloaded could draw for a moment at least:  (2000W / .75 ) /12.5V = 211 amps.  .

A 3,000 watt inverter overloaded could draw for a moment at least:  (3000W /  .75 ) / 12/5 = 320 amps. 

Neither likely would blow the 300 amp fuse.  But over time, repleated again and again, then it is more than just possible that the BB design would become a problem for such installations.  Yes we all could blow holes in the above "Hypothetical" example.  But the underlying concept likely explains why some installs out there are having problems. 

Dragon Fly likely will be redesigning their B+ terminals as is obvious.  But do I see a voluntary recall in the cards.  Not likely, as it could bankrupt their company.  As such it will likely be necessary for a federal recall to be demanded for the installed fleet.  

On the other hand, is it possible for Dragon Fly to redesign the B+ termina?  Sure.  They may even come up with a voluntary recall process to update those terminals for free, but likely we will be eating the shipping costs.  But in the meantime to stick us with fees and charges, not to mention shipping costs to verify they have a known problem is a bad business decision.

Think Ford:  Cam Phaser Mess approach:  Deny, Stall, 

Think Toyota:  Cam shaft approach:  Admit, Apologize and Fix IT, 

GJ

Edited Sunday at 08:33 PM by Geronimo John

[Mike and Carol]

2 hours ago, katanapilot said:

Going to ask again in a slightly different manner.  Has anyone had a catastrophic or near catastrophic outcome as a result of this feature/defect with the BB batteries?  On the surface, it does appear that there could be an issue that warrants close monitoring.  

We installed two BB 100ah batteries in January, 2021.  Later that year I added a third battery when they went on sale.  I’ve had no issues.  Terminals are tight, no wobble like what Will is testing in the video.  It’s within about a month of when I got my Ram 2500 and it now shows about 58,000 towing miles.  Mike

[rideandfly]

3 hours ago, katanapilot said:

Going to ask again in a slightly different manner.  Has anyone had a catastrophic or near catastrophic outcome as a result of this feature/defect with the BB batteries?  On the surface, it does appear that there could be an issue that warrants close monitoring.  

On the other hand, if users are unlikely to stress the batteries and/or the connections which can lead to the overheating and subsequent arcing condition - I'm not sure there is an immediate need for removal or a large scale recall.  As has been discussed, a recall of 400,000 batteries would probably end up bankrupting the company - although the bad press from this issue may do that anyway. 

Not saying this is the case, but the headlines that get you to click on a story lead to more $$$ for the person writing the article. 

Never had an issue with a single BattleBorn 100AH in our LE2 since 2021. Believe our battery use would be considered low stress. Just purchased two new 100AH BB during Black Friday sales event because of our past experience with BB before this video came out. 

I have been careful securing the battery and all connections are tight. Will start monitoring Battery Temperature with our Victron shunt.  

.

 

Edited Sunday at 10:02 PM by rideandfly

[Geronimo John]

6 hours ago, rideandfly said:

Will start monitoring Battery Temperature with our Victron shunt.  

Here to date, there has not been any reason to connect the free port on the 712 system.  I even have the temperature probe in my spare parts onboard.  Looks like the Victron folks did us a favor.

GJ

[Geronimo John]

15 hours ago, Geronimo John said:

Will start monitoring Battery Temperature with our Victron shunt.  

For sure we KNOW where to put that temp sensor.  B+ Terminal!!!

Now which one.  The Back of the battery bay, the middle b+, or the outside B+ ....

That's a question for the Battery Smarter Owner to answer.

GJ