Land Cruiser 200 Towing thread

[BackofBeyond]

For this purpose, the LC200 has been near perfect.  How’s that for snobbery? 
I didn’t notice anymore snobbery than the Chevy, GMC, Ford or Ram guy’s exhibit on occasion and a lot less the those 3/4 ton guy’s.

For the record, if i could have safely towed my EII with my old 16 year old GMC - I would have, spending the $$$ for my newer truck, hurt way to much - snobbery comes at a high price.

[mossemi]

1 hour ago, BackofBeyond said:

For this purpose, the LC200 has been near perfect.  How’s that for snobbery? 
I didn’t notice anymore snobbery than the Chevy, GMC, Ford or Ram guy’s exhibit on occasion and a lot less the those 3/4 ton guy’s.

For the record, if i could have safely towed my EII with my old 16 year old GMC - I would have, spending the $$$ for my newer truck, hurt way to much - snobbery comes at a high price.

But you and I know that the ole Harley dog is worth it.

Mossey

[ScubaRx]

18 hours ago, Mike and Carol said:

My Ram Rebel is the best!  But if I get a 3/4 ton diesel it will be even more best!! 😎

My truck can beat up your truck with one wheel tied behind its tailgate. So there...

[bhncb]

7 minutes ago, ScubaRx said:

My truck can beat up your truck with one wheel tied behind its tailgate. So there...

And then, those of us with LCs will be there to tow home the pieces for you.

[Overland]

1 minute ago, bhncb said:

And then, those of us with LCs will be there to tow home the pieces for you.

Yeah you don't have the payload for that.

[mossemi]

19 hours ago, mossemi said:

For this purpose, the LC200 has been near perfect.  How’s that for snobbery? 
I didn’t notice anymore snobbery than the Chevy, GMC, Ford or Ram guy’s exhibit on occasion and a lot less the those 3/4 ton guy’s.

I knew I shouldn’t have said that, but I couldn’t resist😇.

Mossey

[bhncb]

10 minutes ago, Overland said:

Yeah you don't have the payload for that.

I have an aluminum flat bed that'll handle one of em, at a time.

[mossemi]

11 minutes ago, Overland said:

Yeah you don't have the payload for that.

I would if we dumped your tools.  Or maybe even Steve if we dumped his spare parts and tools.😉

Mossey

[bhncb]

Seriously though, how do the sticker payloads for the Rebel and Raptor compare to the LC200?

Edited July 27, 2020 by bhncb

[Overland]

Probably pretty close.  The difference with the Raptor at least is that is has the F250 frame and rear axle, so you can swap out springs for a higher payload.

[ScubaRx]

3 hours ago, mossemi said:

I would if we dumped your tools.  Or maybe even Steve if we dumped his spare parts and tools.😉

Mossey

Ok, I'm crying uncle. Anything but my tools. 😢

[Mike and Carol]

3 hours ago, ScubaRx said:

Ok, I'm crying uncle. Anything but my tools. 😢

Dumping Steve’s tools is not an option.  We will all need them (and him) at some point! 

[BackofBeyond]

Tools are important. 

BHNCB- 

"Seriously though, how do the sticker payloads for the Rebel and Raptor compare to the LC200"

Perhaps close, but as a snobby 2500 GMC snob - your not in my world of payload, us snobs have a need to point that out...... we are special......Ha

 

 

[catastrofe]

We tow our Casita Spirit Deluxe with a '19 LC200 but are considering either an LEII or a Kimberley Kruiser. 

Would love some input regarding "offroading" with the Ollie.  One of our goals is to venture beyond the pavement jungle into more dispersed areas.  We don't intend to go rock crawling, but would like the ability to traverse fire roads, gravel, and rutted/bumpy access roads.  How well does the LEII handle these "roads".  @John E Davies, this question seems to be in your wheelhouse.  @mossemi, we're practically neighbors (we're at Gunn Hwy and Van Dyke Road).

 

[John E Davies]

Catostrof ... You are comparing apples to oranges. These trailers are only vaguely related. The Kimberley Kruiser is a hardcore off-roader designed for thousands of miles of Australia Outback travel. Here is some reading for you.

https://olivertraveltrailers.com/forums/topic/1674-spring-over-axle-lift/

https://olivertraveltrailers.com/forums/topic/4265-timbren-independent-rubber-suspension/?tab=comments#comment-42548

https://olivertraveltrailers.com/forums/topic/4105-turn-your-oliver-into-an-aussie-beater-anyone/?

Member Raspy sold his LE2 because he wanted better desert road performance. He bought a Black Series  (independent tandem axle, big tires and massive clearance) and is very happy with it.

Raspy’s profile and posts

If that isn’t enough, start a new thread with your concerns. A correctly modified 200 isn’t the problem, the Ollie suspension is the big problem, followed by the coupler. It all depends on how far and how quickly you wish to travel when the potholes appear. For an unmodified Ollie a mile or even five miles  at a fast walking pace to access a campground is jarring for trailer and occupants of the TV, but tolerable . 75 miles of ranch roads (Mountain Home ID direct to Jarbidge NV in this case) .... nope, not at all. Take the long, mostly paved detour. 
 

Edit... watch the weight. For a 200 with an off-road coupler I would personally be looking for a max trailer weight of 5000 pounds (Elite  single axle). It would be a much better choice than the LE2. For a ball coupler you would be OK without the Andersen hitch. Not so  much with the LE2... an Andersen is required and it limits motion at the ball.

 

John Davies

Spokane WA

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 22, 2020 by John E Davies

[catastrofe]

Thanks John.  Clearly the Kimberley and Oliver are two different animals. . .the focus of my post was the off road ability of the LEII.  I appreciate the info and links you provided.  It seems (unfortunately) the LEII isn't a great choice off-pavement.

[donthompson]

I owned an Oliver Elite II for four years and loved it. Like Raspy, I wanted better off-road performance. I stubbed my toe by purchasing a Ram Rebel and a Conqueror 490.  The combo was incredibly capable off-road, but the Rebel's range was too limited and the 490 was way to much work and lacked the creature comforts I was accustomed to.  So, I now have a Ram 2500 diesel and a Kimberley S3 should be in a container headed my way in early January.  I'm pretty confident I've found the right combination for the type of travel and camping I love.

[Mike and Carol]

1 hour ago, donthompson said:

So, I now have a Ram 2500 diesel and a Kimberley S3 should be in a container headed my way in early January.

Hey Don, good to hear from you.  That Kimberley looks like a nice trailer, the Aussies seem to be more innovative than we are over here.  I’ve also moved up to a Ram 2500 diesel.  Mike

[Jairon]

We're getting the LC ready for spring and decided to go the air bag route. I remember @John E Davies mentioning he uses a manual pump for his. A couple questions:

Do the Firestone bags come with a hose fitting compatible with your pump?

What pump are you using?

I'm also just going to have the shop change the oil and was curious if anyone runs 0W-30 or 5W-30 instead of the caps 0W-20. Our 2019 manual specifically mentions using a higher viscosity oil if the engine will be under "extreme load conditions," but most people (including my dealership) don't know or care about that suggestion. The topic has come up a few times on IH8MUD as well.

I'd love to hear from those that actually use their LCs to tow.

Thanks!

 

Edited March 5, 2021 by Jairon

[John E Davies]

My Firestone airbags came with individual schrader valves that could be mounted externally under the bumper. I asked the tech to run them up into the right rear fender well, at the jack. I added colored tape to ID them, Red Left, Green Right. When not towing, I leave them coiled up in there, when towing I leave that access cover off and run the ends out to where I can reach them easily. There is about two feet of excess length, plenty to allow the valves to lie on top of cargo like my generator.

I use a compact low pressure mountain bike pump and two gauges, this one for adjusting at the low end (they want 5 psi at all times to prevent pinching damage).

Milton S-917 2 to 20 psi gauge

And this one for adjusting the high end:

Milton S-921 5 to 50 psi

The pressure you need while towing depends on the tongue weight, I was running 12 psi when the trailer had a TW of 620 pounds. and since I lightened it up to 480 pounds, I backed off to 10 psi, and I leave the Andersen chains almost slack. For towing a trailer with no WD hitch like a Uhaul rental it would be higher.

The gauges and spare valve caps and cores, and an extra schrader valve, fit in a 1 quart zip bag and when NOT towing, they ride in the little cubby inside the jack cover, and the pump gets covered by some foam water line insulation and tucked in the bottom of that compartment next to the jack.  When towing I leave them out in the open so I can adjust pressure without having to shift any cargo.

You can drive the truck with 10 psi in the bags and no trailer, but it rides VERY rough and the butt sits high, so if you plan to drive any distance, especially on unpaved roads, lower the pressure to the minimum. They specify 5 psi, but I am actually using 4 psi, a very little change of air pressure at the low end makes a big difference to the ride. Going from 5 to 4 psi is a 20% change. Going from 20 to 19 psi is only a 5% change.

An onboard pump and gauges would be very nice, but every connection and splice gives you a potential leak point. I prefer to have a very minimal number of  splices.

For inflating, the bike pump takes about thirty pumps per side, then I disconnect and reduce the pressure to the correct psi using the gauge.

I hope that answered your questions, and more. 😬

John Davies

Spokane WA

Edited March 14, 2021 by John E Davies

[Jairon]

Thanks, John! That setup looks much better than the direction I started going down: ARB pump off the battery - cool but not ideal for simply filling bags when towing. Fewer parts, fewer problems. Hopefully my local shop will perform the install. I'll find out tomorrow.

Do you modify your oil at all during tow season or stick to the cap?

[John E Davies]

11 minutes ago, Jairon said:

Thanks, John! That setup looks much better than the direction I started going down: ARB pump off the battery - cool but not ideal for simply filling bags when towing. Fewer parts, fewer problems. Hopefully my local shop will perform the install. I'll find out tomorrow.

Do you modify your oil at all during tow season or stick to the cap?

I use full synthetic 0w20 year round, at 5000 mile intervals. If I were not using the good stuff I would change it more often, but this has been working well. At nearly eight quarts capacity, it is a little more costly.

John Davies

Spokane WA

[Jairon]

We had the air bags installed today. I didn't specify dual vs single path (before the installation, I didn't even know it was an option). It seems to be a hot topic like most things automotive but the mechanic went for the single path option. I can see advantages to both setups and the dual path is obviously ideal for unbalanced loads. The install was $263 from a mechanic we've worked with for a number of years.

Thanks to everyone giving advice in this thread and especially @John E Davies. We're extremely grateful!

P.S. Don't let my optimism prevent anyone from ripping on the single path setup. I'm happy to hear everyone's thoughts about it 

[John E Davies]

On 3/12/2021 at 8:07 PM, Jairon said:

Don't let my optimism prevent anyone from ripping on the single path setup. I'm happy to hear everyone's thoughts about it 

I have two thoughts.....  and you will be upset.

Every time you want to adjust the pressure, you will have to empty out the gear in front of that access opening. I carry my generator on that side, secured with a cable lock to the seat bracket. With my extended lines, I let them lie on top of it, along with the pump and gauges. (I don’t even have to drop the lower gate to get to them.) So your valve location is going to be either a very minor hassle or else a really big inconvenience, depending on what you normally have stored there.

Next, and this is important, the bags ride inside the coil springs, unlike with a leaf spring setup, so Firestone recommends keeping air in them at all times to prevent damage from pinching. It is an unfortunate risk with this design. If one of my lines leaks and I do not catch it right away, I may have one wrecked bag to replace. But I would notice the truck leaning to that side, so hopefully I could repair the leak ASAP before any damage occurs. With both lines teed together, both bags will deflate and you will have no visual way of knowing it. Then you will have to fix two trashed bags, because you will have driven on them too long. You might not even know they have failed until your next trip, when you try to increase the pressure.

The first problem might make you mutter bad words every single time you have to struggle to get access. The second problem will really make you swear, if you experience a leak and have to have them both changed. My recommendation is to take it back, and get it corrected. At the very least have an extension added at the current valve location, but ideally it would have two hoses from two bags with no added joints anywhere. If he does add splices they MUST be located where they are easy to access and to troubleshoot (spray with soapy water to look for leaks).

For a pickup truck, a single valve located in the rear bumper would be just OK, but not if there was a heavy camper installed, because you could not level it side to side.... IMHO a good tech should have known that this would be a bad installation for an SUV with coil springs, but at the very least he should have asked you. So he failed twice. 

Darn it.... I am really sorry that I did not make these comments earlier.😢

John Davies

Spokane WA

Edited March 14, 2021 by John E Davies

[John E Davies]

Add a couple of super strong cargo tiedowns in less than a minute, assuming you removed your third row seats.

 

 

Full thread is here :  https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/add-2-solid-cargo-anchors-for-less-than-10-at-the-third-row-seat-latch.1247368/

FYI this should work with any SUV with third row seat anchor in the wall or floor, but you might need to use a different size hook.

John Davies

Spokane WA

 

Edited March 30, 2021 by John E Davies