New Ollie/lighting problems

[wyofilm]

Hi all, 

Yesterday evening was an exciting day as our new Oliver (#609) arrived by third party.  Western Wyoming did it's best to greet the driver with snow flurries.  I was going to pick it up in person but changed plans as the world starting sliding sideways with covid-19.  Today started the shakedown process in our yard.  The trailer looks fantastic: it's solid and beautiful.  I have been working my way through systems (all except plumbing).  Blew a fuse right away on one of the back leveling jacks.  After replacing the fuse, it worked without problem.  I haven't managed to figure out how to heat the Ollie yet, but I think I need more quality time with the manual.  12v lights is what has me stumped ...

All exterior lights, interior curtesy lights, reading lights, and the closet light all fail to function.  None of the blue lights come on the switches that should control these lights.  Strangely a 5 amp fuse was missing in the control panel location labelled "Cabin/Cabinet Lights".  This is the bottom most position ((12.) in the 12V fuse panel near the dinette.  Without a fuse in place the overhead cabin and cabinet lights work fine.  Addition of a 5amp fuse didn't solve the problem of the other lights.  

All other switches near the entrance light up and the operations they control also work.  

Has anyone else had similar problem?  Is there  another 12V control panel somewhere?  Is there a detailed diagram of the wiring in Oliver University?  (If there is, I haven't found it).  

 

Oh, yes, one last question: There is a switch on the wall below the pantry.  Unlabelled and all alone.  It also doesn't light up when thrown into the on position.  What is it supposed to control?

 

Thanks!

 

[Overland]

 No idea on the mystery switch - Oliver has a bad habit of changing around the electrical switching.  
 

As for the rest, there’s a main 12 volt breaker under the street side bed, and I’d check that first. If that doesn’t work, post back but I bet that’s it. 
 

The breaker is black with a red button and a yellow flag that will pop out if it’s tripped - see the attached photo. Even if the flag isn’t showing, try pressing it in firmly to see if that does the trick. 

Edited March 26, 2020 by Overland

[Overland]

If that isn’t it, some Ollies have a 12 volt sub panel in the attic over the nightstand.  In the back of the manual, which you can download if you don’t have a physical copy, there are wiring diagrams for both 12 and 120 volt. 

Edited March 26, 2020 by Overland

[wyofilm]

Thanks overland.  I will give your suggestions a try.  

[bhncb]

Fuse position 12 in the main panel under the dinette is supposed to be for the optional "auto-drain" dump valve. (aka shower back flow preventer)

Check in the auxiliary fuse panel Overland mentioned. In prior model years, all lights were fed by a 15 amp (blue) in position 11. I suspicion Oliver may have split this into two circuits and "position 12" in this panel may feed the lights in question. If there is no fuse in position 12, either put one in or short it briefly to see if the non-functioning lights respond. 

As far as the mysterious switch: Did Oliver by chance finally add the missing cabinet light inside the pantry? If so, perhaps it is on the same circuit as the other non-functioning lights?

For some reason the 2020 owners manual does not include wiring diagrams. Come on Oliver. What's up with this.

[Patriot]

Wyofilm - wow...this is truly disappointing news especially having just ordered a 2020 Ollie which is on its way through production right now. Not encouraging or exactly what I was hoping to read. I would call the Oliver Service Center and get them involved as soon as you can. They are the experts and from what we have read about stellar customer service will do all they can to resolve your electrical issue(s).
Hopefully you will learn it’s something very minor and can be addressed by you with a phone call. Sorry to hear you are experiencing electrical or really any issues with your brand new Ollie. This is deeply concerning to put it mildly.

Please keep us posted on what you learn and and how everything works out.

-Patriot

Edited March 26, 2020 by Patriot

[wyofilm]

13 minutes ago, bhncb said:

Fuse position 12 in the main panel under the dinette is supposed to be for the optional "auto-drain" dump valve. (aka shower back flow preventer)

Check in the auxiliary fuse panel Overland mentioned. In prior model years, all lights were fed by a 15 amp (blue) in position 11. I suspicion Oliver may have split this into two circuits and "position 12" in this panel may feed the lights in question. If there is no fuse in position 12, either put one in or short it briefly to see if the non-functioning lights respond. 

As far as the mysterious switch: Did Oliver by chance finally add the missing cabinet light inside the pantry? If so, perhaps it is on the same circuit as the other non-functioning lights?

For some reason the 2020 owners manual does not include wiring diagrams. Come on Oliver. What's up with this.

Fuse position 12 is clearly labelled 'Cabin/Cabinet Lights' /5A.  We didn't get the auto-drain option.   I tried a 5A fuse in position 12.  It didn't work.  Position 11 is labelled for 'Optional St Awning' (an option we didn't get.)

I will look for a light in the pantry ...

I'm now guessing that they don't have wiring diagrams because some decisions are made on the fly - like if the owner has the auto-drain option.  Maybe, just maybe the control panel they are using is bit small.  For example, all of the wall mounted 12v electronic displays must be shoved into one or more of the circuits in the control panel, but without any indication where.

 

[wyofilm]

33 minutes ago, Patriot said:

I would call the Oliver Service Center and get them involved as soon as you can.

I will.  It was too late when I stopped working on the problem to contact OTT.  I expect that they will be attentive and helpful.  I have to say the bones of trailer (frame/body) is amazing.  I am suspecting the parts that change yearly and differ from customer to customer might not be as robust.

 

I will update everyone when this is worked out.

[bhncb]

9 hours ago, wyofilm said:

Fuse position 12 is clearly labelled 'Cabin/Cabinet Lights' /5A.  We didn't get the auto-drain option.   I tried a 5A fuse in position 12.  It didn't work.  Position 11 is labelled for 'Optional St Awning' (an option we didn't get.)

I will look for a light in the pantry ...

I'm now guessing that they don't have wiring diagrams because some decisions are made on the fly - like if the owner has the auto-drain option.  Maybe, just maybe the control panel they are using is bit small.  For example, all of the wall mounted 12v electronic displays must be shoved into one or more of the circuits in the control panel, but without any indication where.

 

What I was trying to say is position 12 in the main lower panel got mislabeled. Whoever did this was supposed to add the 'Cabin/Cabinet Lights' designation to previously unused position 12  in the upper aux panel.  Typically, optional equipment that is not ordered/installed still have the circuit reserved, and are often pre-wired, but no fuse installed. This simplifies manufacturing and provides flexibility for last minute additions or future upgrades.

The panel labeling in my LEII was fairly accurate and complete, as far as it went. (Not unlike the ones in every house I've owned)  Perhaps the missing wiring diagrams is simply a case of documentation lagging production.  Shouldn't happen but...  Manufacturers don't adjust to change readily.

 

[Overland]

Historically, Oliver hasn't been very good at getting the fuse panel(s) labelled correctly.  Mine was mostly right, but there are a few that were wrong.  So if you've got a fuse tester, it's a good idea to test them all to be sure.  Or if you have a handful of fuses, start swapping them out to see.  

I didn't catch on the OP that some of the lights were working, so my suggestion to check the main breaker probably isn't worthwhile, though I guess it's at least good to know it exists.  

I also just checked the 2020 Owners Manual and guess what?  No electrical diagrams.  I really hope that's an oversight and not Oliver's decision to remove them.  The 2019 wiring diagram does show a panel in the attic that controls the lighting, and the lighting looks like it's split on three separate circuits: main, cabinet, and courtesy.  Good chance then that one of those is out.

Edited March 26, 2020 by Overland

[wyofilm]

I contacted OTT this morning and we will talk tomorrow again with about the problem.  I didn't have much time today, but did see that the main switch at the entrance (2020 trailer) was acting wonky, even with the two light banks that do work.  Looked in the access port to the back of the panel and wow! it is a mess o' wire.  Fortunately, it looks like that whole panel comes off so at least access won't be too bad if I have to go in there.  

From looking at the 2019 manual, it is clear that OTT reworked 12V electrical.  For example, on our trailer there is no switch panel to the right of the galley.   It looks like the fuse box is in the attic for 2019, but the fuse panel for 2020 is in the dinette area.  It looks like their new way removes all previous 3-way switches.

One thing that I learned today is that the lone switch on the wall beneath the pantry is for interior courtesy lights (which don't work).

[BackofBeyond]

I must say this is very disappointing.  As Oliver is touted by many as a premium level RV, the delivered product should arrive in near perfect order - in both appearance and function. I understand the RV industry is - on my opinion - pretty lax when it comes to initial quality and  long term reliability - but I expect a $60k plus TT to be  -  if not perfect at delivery, at least have a functioning lighting system. Jeesh..

I'm sorry to hear about your Oliver troubles - frankly it disappoints and bothers me personally.

I won't belabor the point any longer - OLIVER dropped the ball on this unit. 

 

RB

After my initial musings, I felt compelled to follow-up with this - New customers - with a future delivery - be relentless and thorough in your review and inspection at delivery - don't accept less than satisfaction. 

Edited March 27, 2020 by BackofBeyond

[Landrover]

Very discouraging. Oliver raised prices, discontinuing many items and quality control in the production line is close to none.  Those who may want to argue the fact. Just look at the posts of new delivery’s 

[Landrover]

1 minute ago, BackofBeyond said:

I must say this is very disappointing.  As Oliver is touted by many as a premium level RV, the delivered product should arrive in near perfect order - in both appearance and function. I understand the RV industry is - on my opinion - pretty lax when it comes to initial quality and  long term reliability - but I expect a $60k plus TT to be  -  if not perfect at delivery, at least have a functioning lighting system. Jeesh..

I'm sorry to hear about your Oliver troubles - frankly it disappoints and bothers me personally.

I won't belabor the point any longer - OLIVER dropped the ball on this unit. 

 

RB

Back of Beyond you type faster than me. Glad I’m not the only one that thinks this way.

 

[katanapilot]

Hope this is not a sign of things to come.  We are supposed to take delivery on May 5. We are spending as much on our Oliver trailer as we did on our Mercedes chassis motorhome.  If quality control is slipping on the line due to COVID-19, then Oliver needs to shut down until this is under control.  I will not be at all tolerant of shoddy QC given our previous experience with our motorhome.

[Landrover]

19 minutes ago, katanapilot said:

Hope this is not a sign of things to come.  We are supposed to take delivery on May 5. We are spending as much on our Oliver trailer as we did on our Mercedes chassis motorhome.  If quality control is slipping on the line due to COVID-19, then Oliver needs to shut down until this is under control.  I will not be at all tolerant of shoddy QC given our previous experience with our motorhome.

Im hull #484 delivered last June way before for the COVID-19 many items quality control missed, obvious errors. At delivery one major. Then many after i got the unit home.  But in there defense I will say they were right on the problems on got them fixed promptly and  made things right. Maybe Oliver can weigh in on this. I relayed my concerns strongly. I think communication with in the company is the other problem.

Edited March 27, 2020 by Landrover

[Overland]

Judging by the content of posts from new owners over the past few years, I think Oliver's quality control has been steadily improving since the low point of the 'Terrible 200's'.  They seem to have the right processes in place; a very thorough, detail oriented person in charge of QC; and I don't think anyone at Oliver is any more accepting of QC problems than we are.  Nonetheless, they're not perfect yet, and maybe never will be, but we can be glad in these cases that the company has always been very responsive in making things right with the owners.

Edited March 27, 2020 by Overland

[mossemi]

I think I will wait until the problem has been diagnosed and corrected before I condemn or laud Oliver Travel Trailers quality control procedures.  After all, this trailer was delivered by a 3rd party to Wyofilm.  It is quite possible that everything worked as designed when it left Hohenwald.  
I do know that the experiences that I have had with hull #193 may or may not apply to hull #609, as OTT makes changes every year in order to create a better travel trailer.  For instance, while watching the video of the new 2020 E2 a couple of weeks ago, I noticed that the galley drawers appear to have an internal latch to prevent unintended opening while underway.  I can’t confirm this because I haven’t seen it, but the video leads me to believe it.

Mossey

[BackofBeyond]

5 hours ago, Overland said:

Judging by the content of posts from new owners over the past few years, I think Oliver's quality control has been steadily improving since the low point of the 'Terrible 200's'.  They seem to have the right processes in place; a very thorough, detail oriented person in charge of QC; and I don't think anyone at Oliver is any more accepting of QC problems than we are.  Nonetheless, they're not perfect yet, and maybe never will be, but we can be glad in these cases that the company has always been very responsive in making things right with the owners.

Perhaps overall quality has improved - only Oliver knows for sure  (data, data, data) -  and I hope they have internal as-built data to compare to the repair data, and are responding accordingly.   I am jaded here, as my professional life was in the manufacturing and quality arena. I took two tours, and although i was impressed by the design and resulting build of the Oliver- their built-in quality and systems processes were not where I would have imagined - but from what I've  since discovered - miles ahead of most RV manufacturers.

As Landrover commented - "I'm hull #484 delivered last June way before for the COVID-19 many items quality control missed, obvious errors. At delivery one major. Then many after i got the unit home. "

-  and there are, as stated  by others,  many other anecdotal accounts of initial quality concerns

For me personally - I'm happy Oliver does have a great service and warranty department - I've used it several times - and have been more than satisfied, but honestly, that only dampens the disappointment due to initial quality fails as a new owner. (not referring to any issue with components)."

Don't know where they are two years later - but I continue to support them and their effort.  

Sure - I am reserving final judgement, but delivery doesn't have anything to do with the shortcomings in the documentation - nor would I think  a no-incident delivery would have caused the issues as described. It would be great if it turns out to be a loose connection or similar breakdown. 

And finally - we do see a good deal of new and soon to be Oliver Owners perusing this Forum - and each post/topic of this sort -  I'm sure,  drives a little uncertainty/apprehension in the minds of these folks.  ----- So to these folks - I am very happy to own my Oliver, it is a good to great TT, and as you will find, it draws attention everywhere you go, on the road and  in the camp. Take a critical eye to your delivery experience, and I  am certain you to -  will also come to love your Ollie.

Sorry to be so long, Happy Trails all. Be safe out there.

RB

[wyofilm]

Update:  With OTT's help I was able to determine the 'Master Switch' is bad.  Therefore, it will be an easy fix.  They will send to me a new switch in the mail, along with a cover to the light in closet which is missing.  The switch turns on two circuits simultaneously.  The current switch fails to close one circuit.  By jumping across the switch I was able to confirm that all my lights work.  

 

To other 2020 E2 owners, I learned that the wiring schemes are a bit different from early 2020 to later 2020 trailers with regard to the lights.  In the end, slot 12 is now used for some lighting, but mine wasn't wired this way despite the new labeling.  Also, they should label the in interior courtesy light switch it just sits there all alone on the wall below the pantry.  This is especially true since the 2020 manual says that the switch is located on the Main Switch panel instead of its true (and better location) near the pantry.

 

On to testing other systems ...

 

 

[gatorewc]

I appreciate your openness to bring to the table possible areas Oliver might need to step back and look at their quality control.  I have 2 weeks before I pay my 1/2 payment.  I find myself looking at other RV's just to solidify my choice.  The Bigfoot and Black Series are 2 that I look at but in the end my vote always goes back to Oliver.   I will certainly be looking to make sure everything is working when I pick up my RV in July.  Another concern is if the State Parks and NP may be still closed and the only way to truly check everything out is to camp for a few days trying all the systems out.  I can't imagine having the camper brought to my house and the lights not working.  Not being a happy camper would not be a "tongue in cheek"  statement.  Hopefully they will find it was just an easy to fix issue as we all make mistakes and the end result is what is important.   I appreciate all the comments and informative discussions as I find myself excited for our delivery.

[wyofilm]

gatorewc - Not having the lights work took a bit of shine off the new trailer, but as I said above the hull and frame is amazing.  As someone mentioned above it is possible the switch was working during qc checks, but failed later (during the road trip out here).  If this is the only problem I have, I won't mind.  

It wil be hard to test everything until winter ends.  

 

[Mainiac]

I have read some of the comments, and was surprised that I have one of the "terrible 200's". I don't feel that way about our unit at al!. We read the forums before ordering and decided that we wanted the Ez-Flex system which was optional. It is now standard. We added a 4" marine hatch to our propane cover, so we didn't have to take the cover off. They now put in a 6" hatch as standard. Our porch light has occasional black streaks. They changed the product supplied to them and newer units have no problems with them. Our unit had a drawer problem from too short a screw supplied by the drawer maker. The factory corrected it and those affected. All the while as they geared up production to almost double the assembly, they cared about the existing customer.

if I can't pull a switch and ascertain it is bad, or put a panel back up, over some wires that vibrated loose, what will I ever do when time to figure how to dump? Or need to sanitize the fresh water tank, or winterize for a sudden storm coming? Or bring more fresh water through the outside port? We took these things as learning experiences as we learned about our unit and grew with them. As we encountered, an opportunity, and discussed it with the Oliver staff, we think we learned from the experience, and maybe more important, so did they. The listened to us...

 

 

Edited March 28, 2020 by Mainiac

[Landrover]

9 hours ago, Overland said:

Judging by the content of posts from new owners over the past few years, I think Oliver's quality control has been steadily improving since the low point of the 'Terrible 200's'.  They seem to have the right processes in place; a very thorough, detail oriented person in charge of QC; and I don't think anyone at Oliver is any more accepting of QC problems than we are.  Nonetheless, they're not perfect yet, and maybe never will be, but we can be glad in these cases that the company has always been very responsive in making things right with the owners.

Overland I’m not surprised you said this you always seem to be on the defensive for Oliver. I’m content that My issues were resolved. And there were many. What has irked me the most, my decision to buy was based on the Oliver video claiming several QC checks at each step of the process. And then a final QC inspection at the end before its released for delivery. They also claimed the same at the factory tour showing the inspection  sheets they use. If  this was half true major problems should have been avoided. I’m sure some of the problem is there under the gun pumping out more units than ever before but still not a valid excuse.

[Patriot]

3 hours ago, wyofilm said:

Update:  With OTT's help I was able to determine the 'Master Switch' is bad.  Therefore, it will be an easy fix.  They will send to me a new switch in the mail, along with a cover to the light in closet which is missing.  The switch turns on two circuits simultaneously.  The current switch fails to close one circuit.  By jumping across the switch I was able to confirm that all my lights work.  

 

To other 2020 E2 owners, I learned that the wiring schemes are a bit different from early 2020 to later 2020 trailers with regard to the lights.  In the end, slot 12 is now used for some lighting, but mine wasn't wired this way despite the new labeling.  Also, they should label the in interior courtesy light switch it just sits there all alone on the wall below the pantry.  This is especially true since the 2020 manual says that the switch is located on the Main Switch panel instead of its true (and better location) near the pantry.

 

On to testing other systems ...

 

 

Wyofilm,

Great job diagnosing your issue with the help of Oliver Service Center. Its a shame and still deeply concerning me as stated in my previous post that your brand new 2020 Oliver had issues upon delivery. This is truly verrrry unsettling to say the least.

We were told by our sales rep Anita that each trailer goes through 10 days of Inspection/quality control before delivery. Let us know how the rest of your systems operate when you can.

Thank you for your transparency and follow up.

It appears Oliver needs to step up their QC. And like gatorewc I cant imagine having any electrical issues on delivery day. 

-Patriot

 

Edited March 28, 2020 by Patriot