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Tacoma + Elite II Owners Here?


jordanv
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That's pretty lousy, but like you said, at least they gave you back your money.  

I think the tow charts for all the big three are confusing and yeah you've got to check every footnote, but even so, it doesn't look like Ford makes that limitation clear in their towing guide.  Unless I'm missing something, it seems somewhat negligent on their part that you have to go through the manual to find it.  Maybe it's listed somewhere obvious and I'm just not seeing it.

I think I remember another owner having a similar problem with a dealer trying to push a truck without a tow package on someone.

Edited by Overland
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34 minutes ago, Overland said:

it seems somewhat negligent on their part

I totally agree. I didn't see this as a "bad" dealer per se, but poorly documented details on Ford's part.

2021 Oliver Legacy Elite II - Twin Bed - Hull 762 | 2018 F150 3.5L Ecoboost V6 w/ Max Tow package

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I am sorry to hear of this misfortune, but you were very, very smart to get it in writing from the salesman, even if it was just a text or email. Phone calls are a recipe for disaster. I have had a couple of nasty experiences with buying things where the verbal promises made were a fantasy. Always ALWAYS get it in writing. Bravo!

I financed a home purchase in person (in the Olde Days) and the rep gave me a great deal (zero points, low rate), but it sounded a little off to me, enough to raise suspicions. I demanded and received a written/ signed rate description on their Wells Fargo letterhead. Months later I received a letter from the bank saying that the guy had been making promises they could not keep, and he had been fired, and the points and rate was going up. I sent them a copy of the letter and a comment that they should probably let it slide in my case, which they did. Sorry for the thread hijack.

It is too bad you drove so far and spent so much time with this, it should never have happened with a brand new vehicle. Ford owes you some financial compensation for your miles driven and lodging (12 hrs and two nights!) and lost wages. Seriously, I would initiate a ticket with their corporate office. This is a very big deal and IMHO you should pursue it. If you have trouble with Ford, consider contacting a local tv news station, they usually have somebody who helps in consumer cases like this. It makes great stories on the local broadcast, and the threat of bad publicity usually forces a good outcome.

Are you still going to get a F150? I personally would be a little wary at this point. Maybe you should swing by the Toyota dealer to look at a Tundra....;) ... Thanks for keeping us updated, and good luck.

John Davies

Spokane WA

Edited by John E Davies
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"Mouse":  2017 Legacy Elite II NARV (Not An RV) Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/john-e-davies-how-to-threads-and-tech-articles-links/

Tow Vehicle: 2013 Land Cruiser 200, 33" LT tires, airbags, Safari snorkel.

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Agree with John's suggestion about filing a claim with Ford Corporate. 

Also agree that Tundra's are great trucks...however in addition to "tow capacity", pleas consider "payload" as well as you shop.

*Sent JordanV a PM on the topic*

My l F150 has a tow capacity of 12,700 lbs (official) but a payload of 1557 lbs on the door pillar.
I looked seriously at buying a Tundra but their payloads were even a bit less than my F150..

 I'll be doing more extensive towing in the next few years and want more payload margin and the ability to store gear in the back of a truck with a canopy instead of carrying it distributed also inside the trailer.   For those reasons I'm planning a truck upgrade.

Craig

Hull 505

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2019 Elite II (Hull 505 - Galway Girl - August 7, 2019 Delivery) 
Tow Vehicle: 2021 F350 King Ranch, FX4, MaxTow Package, 10 Speed, 3.55 Rear Axle
Batteries Upgrade: Dual 315GTX Lithionics Lithiums - 630AH Total
Inverter/Charger: Xantrex 2000Pro 

BLOG:  https://4-ever-hitched.com

Amazon Oliver Outfitters Guide:  https://amzn.to/2mAAgPO

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50 minutes ago, John E Davies said:

I would initiate a ticket with their corporate office

 

9 minutes ago, ctshort09 said:

Agree with John's suggestion about filing a claim with Ford Corporate. 

 

Thanks for this suggestion yall. I may look into this, especially since I have this pretty well documented already. It wouldn't take much more work.

2021 Oliver Legacy Elite II - Twin Bed - Hull 762 | 2018 F150 3.5L Ecoboost V6 w/ Max Tow package

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https://www.ifebp.org/news/regulatoryupdates/Pages/2020-irs-mileage-rates.aspx

I think we are talking about a serious amount of cash here....

John Davies

Spokane WA

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"Mouse":  2017 Legacy Elite II NARV (Not An RV) Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/john-e-davies-how-to-threads-and-tech-articles-links/

Tow Vehicle: 2013 Land Cruiser 200, 33" LT tires, airbags, Safari snorkel.

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Thanks for sharing story.   I am in the DFW area and will be getting a TV later this year.  Think I am down to 2021 F-150 or RAM 1500.    

I have started looking and when I start asking some guys about payload and weight ratings they look confused.  Buyer beware is my approach as they just want to move the truck. 

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2021 Legacy Elite II Hull #807 - 2021 F150 w/ 3.5L EB and max tow package 

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1 hour ago, John E Davies said:

I think we are talking about a serious amount of cash here....

Dang! It's always great to have second opinions of your experience. According to this mileage rate, in addition to my hotel stays the total cost of the trip was $580. This is not even taking consideration of the value of one vacation day. I'll definitely be in touch with Ford on this one.

Edited by jordanv

2021 Oliver Legacy Elite II - Twin Bed - Hull 762 | 2018 F150 3.5L Ecoboost V6 w/ Max Tow package

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1 hour ago, jordanv said:

Dang! It's always great to have second opinions of your experience. According to this mileage rate, in addition to my hotel stays the total cost of the trip was $580. This is not even taking consideration of the value of one vacation day. I'll definitely be in touch with Ford on this one.

Everyone thinks Rv life is cheep. NOT. But fun.

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Grant  2022 GMC Denali 2500 HD 2019  Elite 11😎

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That’s no good. From my searches of fomoco products, if it doesn’t have the pro trailer backup assist knob, it probably doesn’t have the tow package. Whether it be f150, expedition, or navigator. 
 

Rather than relying on dealer descriptions, I just looked at every car’s pictures to verify the options I wanted. Then confirmed with Ford ETIS build sheets. I would see what the 2021 trucks have. Either it will be compelling or the 2019/2020s on lots will be heavily discounted. That or find the HDPP unicorn.  Trust car salespeople as far as you can throw them. 

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2019 LE2 #529.   Standard Floorplan.

2020 GMC Sierra 2500 Duramax

 

 

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19 hours ago, TexasGuy said:

I have started looking and when I start asking some guys about payload and weight ratings they look confused.  Buyer beware is my approach as they just want to move the truck. 

In my experience, visiting a  dealership in a rural location and asking right away to talk to a fleet salesman or manager gets better results, 90% of the time. These guys deal with businesses and farmers and understand the actual capabilities and limitations of the trucks WAY better than your average “Brochure Reader” (completely untrained) sales droid, who could have been selling furniture a month ago. A big city truck dealership, not so much. That dealer might be more useful at buying an SUV. Buyer beware, indeed!

John Davies

Spokane WA

Edited by John E Davies
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"Mouse":  2017 Legacy Elite II NARV (Not An RV) Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/john-e-davies-how-to-threads-and-tech-articles-links/

Tow Vehicle: 2013 Land Cruiser 200, 33" LT tires, airbags, Safari snorkel.

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How would you guys feel about towing a 7,000lbs Elite II with the following vehicle specs. Again, we would be towing along many places, uphill, downhill, etc.

2019 Chevy Silverado 1500

Max Tow weight = 9,800 LBS

The GVWR is 6900 LBS

The max payload is 1949 LBS

It has a 5.3 liter V-8 and an 8 speed transmission.

GCWR is 15,000 LBS. 

Also has an integrated trailer brake controller.

The way I see it...

Max Payload =          1949 lbs
Tongue Weight =        750 lbs (ish)
Passenger Weight =   300 lbs (ish)
Cargo Weight =           500 lbs (ish)
Generator Weight =   150 lbs (ish)
------------------------------------------
Weight Left over =      249 lbs

80% of  (9,800) Max Tow Weight = 7840 lbs

So it seems as long as we keep under the payload, and keep our trailer under 7840 lbs, this would give us a good + safe wiggle room to tow an Elite II with this Chevy.

Edited by jordanv
add weights

2021 Oliver Legacy Elite II - Twin Bed - Hull 762 | 2018 F150 3.5L Ecoboost V6 w/ Max Tow package

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Jordan, 

I would feel ok in many situations, but not in others.

The data below says you are OK from a payload perspective. But that's only part of the story.

My personal experience with a 7000 GVW rated truck is that steep downhill grades get a bit white knuckle as the Truck and Trailer are very close to the same mass.  The "FEEL" of towing depends on the setup, where and how you tow.  If you're out on the road more than 50% of the time, and in mountains a lot, you may want a bit heavier Tow Vehicle...and pair it with a Diesel Engine to provide additional down hill exhaust braking assistance.  If you are a flatlander you might be ok but still wind can become a problem. (Sorry for the generalizations).

In the data table below, I made some assumptions and put data into the Keep Your Daydream towing calculator (xls).  The calculator needed data for Passenger Weight and Cargo so I put in numbers for 2 full sized adults and 300lbs of cargo in the rear.

If you add accessories they would also show up in the cargo area.  
For example, my short box fiberglass canopy weighs another 250 lbs. 

If you want to download the XLS go to the You Tube Video and check in the comments section.

Video: 

XLS - http://www.keepyourdaydream.com/payload/

  

1935338701_ScreenShot2020-08-28at2_14_48PM.thumb.png.7bba342fabcfc90d60e5310f97c42a92.png

OLLIE Calculator.xlsx

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2019 Elite II (Hull 505 - Galway Girl - August 7, 2019 Delivery) 
Tow Vehicle: 2021 F350 King Ranch, FX4, MaxTow Package, 10 Speed, 3.55 Rear Axle
Batteries Upgrade: Dual 315GTX Lithionics Lithiums - 630AH Total
Inverter/Charger: Xantrex 2000Pro 

BLOG:  https://4-ever-hitched.com

Amazon Oliver Outfitters Guide:  https://amzn.to/2mAAgPO

ALAZCAFLGAIDILINKSKYLAMIMNMSMOMTNENMNCOR

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You may want to check with Oliver.  I believe the max GVW for the Elite II loaded up is 7,000 lbs.  This will help your truck towing and payload "wiggle room" numbers even more!!    You would probably not want to overload the trailer either.

More numbers,  numbers, numbers, numbers.  

We tow with an old 2008 5.7 litre Tundra with factory installed tow package.  It has tow/haul.  I had to install an after market brake controller (very easy plug in module)  The Tundra works great.  That said if $ were not important I would buy a 1 ton diesel without dual wheels.  (my preference)  The cost difference for 1 ton vs 3/4ton is not that much.    But I am sticking with my great running, no issue, very reliable, old truck.  I will be the slow truck on the steep down grades.  Good luck!!!

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Have you seen this YouTube from the tfl guys doing the ike gauntlet?

2016 Silverado, but 5.3 and 8 speed transmission. 9000 lb utility trailer.

 

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2008 Ram 1500 4 × 4

2008 Oliver Elite, Hull #12

Florida and Western North Carolina, or wherever the truck goes....

400 watts solar. Dc compressor fridge. No inverter. 2 x 105 ah agm batteries .  Life is good.

 

 

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7000lbs has been the Ollie II max. As has been said many times, most modern 1/2 ton trucks, set up appropriately do a fine job as a tow vehicle for the EII. And as has been pointed out, the first place you run into problems is usually in the payload area. Manage payload and you are good to go. Just remember payload is not just about carried weight - braking and chassis systems need to be able to handle the load. 

#3/4 ton trucks are  more forgiving in the payload area - leaves the driver to contemplate other issue......

After a few years in my truck, I've come to really appreciate the intangibles -. 

RB

 

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Cindy,  Russell and  "Harley dog" . Home is our little farm near Winchester TN

2018 Oliver Legacy Elite II - 2018 GMC 2500 Duramax 

"Die young - As late as possible"
ALAZARCACOFLIDMTNVNMOKORTNTXUTWAWYd56201

 

 

 

 

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After much research and looking at used trucks online. I decided that a used 2018 F150 with the Max Tow package is my best bet for now and within my current price range.

Found a really good deal in Houston and will be picking up this weekend. I have quadruple checked that it has the Max Tow package, it has a decent payload as well oh almost 1700lbs.

Looking forward for this part of the "camper life" process to be complete 🤣

 

thanks again for all the help and advice you guys!

 

Edited by jordanv
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2021 Oliver Legacy Elite II - Twin Bed - Hull 762 | 2018 F150 3.5L Ecoboost V6 w/ Max Tow package

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My brother loves his F150. He's in sales, in a rural territory,  so he spends hours every day in his. My sister-in-law, who's even shorter than I, really enjoys driving it, as well. She towed a utility trailer with my mom's furniture from Minnesota to Florida,  and was quite pleased with the experience.

Hope you enjoy yours, too.

For many of us, our trucks are also our daily drivers, so I think it's important to find balance in our selections. Daily comfort,  mileage not towing, and overall driving experience are all factors in our decisions. 

 Sherry 

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2008 Ram 1500 4 × 4

2008 Oliver Elite, Hull #12

Florida and Western North Carolina, or wherever the truck goes....

400 watts solar. Dc compressor fridge. No inverter. 2 x 105 ah agm batteries .  Life is good.

 

 

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Yep - good for you.  Certainly I do not like following the crowd - perhaps most of us that own Olivers are in this same boat in that regard - but, there is a reason (s) that the F-150 has been the best selling for so many years.  It is really nice to see that the other brands are catching up (and in some ways passing) to the F-150.  Choices make for a better product on so many fronts.

Enjoy that truck - hope it brings you many miles of smiles.

Bill

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2023 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5EB FX4 Max Towing, Max Payload, 2016 Oliver Elite II - Hull #117 "Twist"

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