Towing and sway issues

[rideandfly]

We have a Hayes electronic SwayMaster installed on our LE2 Ollie. Not sure if this device is still on the market, there were problems with this unit working with some OEM vehicle sway systems. 

This unit applies trailer brakes when it detects sway events. It's equipped with a GPS to activate system above 45MPH. It's also equipped with a directional gyro that applies trailer brakes during a sway event with rapid direction change. 

On two occasions I had the brakes to activate when I was towing too fast down mountains halfway through both curves. At the time I thought both cases were sway events that activated the SwayMaster applying trailer brakes. In hind sight, I don't believe I experienced trailer sway or instability. Did not sense or see any sway or instability. Only thing experienced was trailer brakes being applied, due to going too fast through the curves with rapid direction change through the curve. I slowed down and never experienced this scenario again.

Have always wondered why Ollies are so stable when properly loaded and towed reasonably.  Is it the suspension and commercial light truck tires that contribute to Ollie's stability?  I'm sure during slick conditions, improper loading, or towing recklessly any trailer can have a sway event. 

 

 

[SeaDawg]

Not saying it couldn't ever happen, but 14 seasons, 2008 Elite, 3 different tow vehicles, over 100k miles, no experience with sway, ever. 

No wdh, no sway bar,  older tow vehicles with zip for electronic sway control.

Except for change in mpg/range, have to remind ourselves we're towing.  

[Stevon]

My driving partner, in a panic, terrified me by over correcting with a sharp right, then over correcting with a sharp left, then another over correction to the right. I was sure that a life changing event was beginning. But the combination of anti sway on the truck, the Anderson hitch, and the Oliver design actually straightened out the induced sway. I’m a believer in all three. 

[routlaw]

Likewise I also cannot ever remember anyone complaining of sway issues with an Oliver. These things are just amazing in this regard. 

[routlaw]

One last thought on the subject, as to why the Olivers do track so well without swaying. During the factory tour with Robert Partee we got to talking about this and at that time seeing just the frame and large wheels naked without a cabin attached it occurred to me the reason for this stability unlike so many other travel trailers is the relative immense size of those wheels. Its not just the diameter of them which no doubt helps but also the distance from the center of each axel point which due to the size of the wheel tire combination has to be much further apart than a conventional trailers with their skimpy little 14" rims and crappy trailer tires. 

Modern day mountain bikes have almost all gone to 29" wheels. The reason is simple, better stability. While I haven't measured the relative difference in the diameter of Oliver wheel sets compared to conventional travel trailers my guess is there is at least a 25% increase in the size of the diameter,  then spread those two pivot points further apart and you have a built in anti sway prevention system. Thats my two cents worth.

[John E Davies]

One other factor is high quality suspension parts (if you have the EZ Flex (standard equipment now, but it was once an option). The cr@ppy plastic bushings and tiny bolts of the standard Dexter suspension, which comes installed on nearly all mass produced stick and staple trailers, wear out within a few thousand miles, resulting in weird noises and lots of unwanted play and motion in the springs. Combine a worn out suspension with poor aerodynamics and improper design, and those trailers are very prone to sway and jack knifing. 

I have never experienced sway of any kind, even with a 480 pound tongue weight, which many will say is “too low”. It isn’t……

John Davies

Spokane WA

[Mike and Carol]

23 minutes ago, John E Davies said:

One other factor is high quality suspension parts (if you have the EZ Flex (standard equipment now, but it was once an option). The cr@ppy plastic bushings and tiny bolts of the standard Dexter suspension, which comes installed on nearly all mass produced stick and staple trailers, wear out within a few thousand miles, resulting in weird noises and lots of unwanted play and motion in the springs.

When I had Oliver put the Dexter on my trailer about a year after we got it, Jason told me the original bushings were totally gone!  Mike

[routlaw]

Good points John. My original shackles/bearings on the suspension also wore out very quickly and it was a notable difference with the EZ Flex upgrade. 

[Geronimo John]

On 8/21/2021 at 3:36 AM, Overland said:

I should probably clarify that I wouldn’t recommend towing your Ollie at 90 mph. But I did look down once while not paying attention and saw that number - and then slowed down.  My experience though is that the trailer tows very well at any legal speed limit. 

I agree.  Each Summer I run from OK to OR and back.  Out on the flat interstate out west, the speed limits generally are 80 MPH.  If I run at the legal limit, I AM the island in the stream with hundreds of trucks a day running well over the limit.  I will often follow (well behind) their convoys so as to not be a hazard.  I employ extra following distance to avoid windshield damage, truck induced wake turbulence, and to let them clear out any deer, elk or other hazards.  I can say that for sure, my F-150 SuperCrew Ecoboost and Ollie II can keep up at or beyond those posted limits when conditions are good.

However going across I-80 there are some sections that almost always have severe alternating left/right cross winds cause me to slow down to 65 - 70 MPH for safety.    

My travel safety mitigations are:

• I set my truck's emergency anti-collision system to the most sensitive setting. 
• I always tow with an Anderson with the ball greased. Ollie has never needed sway control.  I use the Anderson only for WD purposes... as is required by Ford for their F-150's with tongue weights over 500 pounds.
• My loaded F-150 front and rear axle loadings are within 30 pounds of each other.  To get that on my rig's set-up, I need and use 3 to 4 threads tension on the Anderson chains. 
• I run Michelin Tires at 43 PSI cold, and they are always monitored by my dash mounted tire pressure monitoring system. 
• I carry a DeWalt 20V air compressor so that I can check my tire pressures easily before the sun hits the tires.  Having this compressor (With the hard case) makes this task easy.  Let the sun or road miles hit your tires, and using a gauge is just guessing what you really have in the tires.  
• I use a Etekcity Infrared Thermometer 800  non-Contact Digital Temperature Gun to check my tires every two hours or so.
• My Ollie loaded is 5700 pounds, and my truck has one person and about 500 pounds of gear.  As such, I am towing well below the door sill weight limitations.

Credit where credit is due, the idea for most of the above safety practices came from John D and other senior mentors on this web site.  

Geronimo John  

[GAP]

On 8/21/2021 at 12:53 PM, Mike and Carol said:

Good point.  It was explained to me that if the mechanical system keeps sway down the electronic system on the truck won’t do anything.  If for some reason the mechanical system fails the electronic system reacts.  I can’t vouch for the validity of that but most new half tons will have the anti sway and folks still use an anti sway hitch.  It would be nice if there was something definitive on this issue.  Mike

This chain does bring up questions I've been wrestling with.  I have a Ford 150 on order.  3.6 eco boost with lots of fancy safety stuff including their electronic anti sway feature.  According to Ford suggestions, any trailer over 5000lbs should use a mechanical anti sway device with the 150 - as opposed to their bigger trucks.  I have an Elite II with the anderson anti sway/weight distribution unit which I love.  Questions:

-  I've read but am wondering if anyone has experienced a situation where the TV anti sway electronic works against the mechanical device, actually causing sway?

-  The Ford anti sway feature can be disabled but must be reset each time the truck is turned on.  Do any of you experimented with doing so?

Gerry

[topgun2]

Mine is a 2017 F-150.

Answers to your questions - 1: no     2: no

I've never had a hint of sway with my Elite II regardless of Andersen, no Andersen, Ford's anti-sway or no Ford anti-sway or any combination of these.

Bill

[SteveCr]

I have a 2018 F150 with the LE2 and Andersen. I don't disable the F150 anti-sway. I used to engage the transmission tow mode. I don't even do this anymore. Most of the time it is so smooth I have to remind myself the Ollie is still back there.

The only issue I have is front end porpoise on an interstate highway with rough expansion joints. I've cranked down the Andersen chains with some positive results.

(I believe the Ford requirement is more WD than sway control. There should be a label on the underside of your F150 hitch)

[Mike and Carol]

I’ve never disabled the anti-sway on any of my trucks, even when towing with the Andersen.  The Oliver is not a trailer prone to sway, I’ve never experienced any sway in all types of towing conditions.  When I used the Andersen it was for weight distribution.  Mike

[GAP]

I spoke to the good folks at Anderson yesterday after submitting my posting here.  They shared that for late model trucks (2016 or newer) they no longer suggest to disengage the Ford Anti Sway feature.  Turns out that they had her incidentally and through the experience of a couple of employees with older trucks that the Anti Sway and Anderson ended up working against each other.  Described the problem as jerky sway and attributed it to the two features being out of sink in their approach to preventing sway.  They have not heard of this problem happening on newer trucks with anti sway.

My personal experience lines up with what others have said.  Till my new 150 arrives, I am still towing with a Chevy Colorado.  No sway issues at all - a tiny bit of porpoising when running over big highway cracks.  We've driven about 7500 miles with the Colorado which tows the weight well but can feel a little overwhelmed.  It's in no hurry to get up to speed and, on very long hills in very hot weather, can run up against the comfy range for transmission temps. Otherwise, has been pretty solid. Has done fine on our east coast mountains, including the Whites in New Hampshire but we have eyes on trips in the Rockys so have ordered up.  I don't believe bigger is always better but am looking forward to having a bit more safety margin in towing (11,500 lb vs 7,000lb) and a lot more payload capacity.

Gerry

[Kkarolz29]

I’m a newbie to Oliver TT’s… actually to TTS in general.  I have always driven an RV.  I am very interested in switching over to an Oliver; however, I’m researching the heck out of the whole pull-behind thing to make sure that I won’t get in over my head.  I saw where someone mentioned that they tow with a full fresh water tank.  Can someone please tell me what benefits that would provide?   I was thinking in my newbie head, that I would tow at a dry weight.  Is there a benefit for weight distribution in having the fresh tank full?   Or is that just for hygiene purposes while traveling?   Thank you 🙂.   I truly appreciate this group, and hope that I can get over my nervous jitters enough to become an owner soon.

[Mike and Carol]

I tow with a full fresh tank mainly to have water available on the road and especially if we’re going to dry camp.  I also tow with various levels in the gray and black (except when we’re starting a trip).  Sometimes you can’t dump until you arrive at the next location or somewhere on the road.  To be honest, I’ve never noticed any real difference with full tanks, empty tanks or partially full tanks.  After dry camping, the fresh tank is less, gray and black more.  I think it is a testimony to the Oliver design of flat tanks positioned well.  I wouldn’t lose any sleep over it.  Mike

[topgun2]

I try to tow longer distances (i.e. over 400 miles) with empty tanks in order to help improve fuel economy.  But, if I know that I will be without access to fresh water at my next stop and there are few if any places to get it on the trip, I'll tow with a full tank.  I dump grey and black whenever I can - more for peace of mind than anything else.

Like Mike, I really do not notice any difference in towing regardless of the state of the various tanks.

Bill

[John E Davies]

15 hours ago, Kkarolz29 said:

I was thinking in my newbie head, that I would tow at a dry weight.  Is there a benefit for weight distribution in having the fresh tank full?   Or is that just for hygiene purposes while traveling?  

Welcome to the forums.

It takes nearly half an hour to drain a full fresh tank, and you need to raise the tongue a little too. That is fine for winterizing, but not something you would want to do daily.

Sometimes you might not be able to find a good source of clean water at your destination.

Sometimes you might not find a hookup site at all, and you will have to boondock.

The water tanks are all very low, below the floor, and mostly centered over the axles, so full or empty makes no real difference to towing stability. Theoretically full tanks will help it handle curves better. Empty tanks do reduce the load on the TV a little. For a marginal engine that can make a noticeable difference.

Filling the tank should be done carefully with at least a basic filter, from a known good source. Sometimes if the water is suspect, you should just say no to fecal bacteria. (An example is the Fall Hollow RV park 10 minutes east of the factory, the water outlets are in the same muddy hole in the ground as the sewer connections 😳.)

If you are connected at a full hookup site, it is much easier to drain the waste tank(s) and top up the fresh one completely in the morning before you disconnect, than to do it en route or when you get to another full hookup site.

I try to have my fresh tank fully topped up, and the grey one empty, every time I leave a site, just in case I need to dry damp for a day or more. I have no black tank contents to worry about. This really is more a concern out West, where full hookup sites are much more rare, and sometimes finding a fresh water tap can be a challenge. 

John Davies

Spokane WA

 

[Steph and Dud B]

Our Ollie hasn't been born yet, but we have RVed for many years and we always carry water in the fresh water tank. On at least 2 occasions we arrived at full-hookup sites to find there was no water in the campground. The first time it was because the campground's water pump had failed. The second time there was a sign on the office door advising campers not to use the water because it had tested contaminated and had just been super-treated with bleach. Plus, it's nice to have if you need to use the bathroom on the road.

[topgun2]

1 hour ago, Steph and Dud B said:

Plus, it's nice to have if you need to use the bathroom on the road.

I always carry one to two gallon jugs of water in the Oliver next to the toilet primarily to be used for flushing.

This practice started out during cold weather camping but during the past several years I've found it to be useful even during the warmer weather months.

Bill

[John and Debbie]

1 hour ago, topgun2 said:

I always carry one to two gallon jugs of water in the Oliver next to the toilet primarily to be used for flushing.

This practice started out during cold weather camping but during the past several years I've found it to be useful even during the warmer weather months.

Bill

Is that to minimize the draw from the fresh water tank?   Maybe the normal flush is more water than is needed especially if it's only pee.   I don't know how the toilet works in the Oliver.   On my tent trailer,  it's easy to just twist once or several times on the knob to regulate how much water is used 

[topgun2]

John -

13 hours ago, John Welte said:

Is that to minimize the draw from the fresh water tank? 

No - the jugs of water is used on those occasions when there is NO water in the fresh water tank.  These times are usually in the winter months when water in the fresh water tank might be at risk of freezing or during the rest of the year when you might not want the weight of the water in that tank while towing.

The standard Oliver toilet works just like most other RV toilets in that the amount of water used to flush is regulated by how long you hold down the handle (foot peddle). 

Bill

[Nancy S]

Can you use another anti-sway hitch instead of the Anderson.  We already have a Blue Ox with another kind of trailer.  If we buy an Oliver could we use the Blue Ox instead of buying another one.   Less money to spend.  We are going to Tennesee in March and will be near Holenwald so we will probably do a tour of the factory.

[ScubaRx]

47 minutes ago, Nancy S said:

Can you use another anti-sway hitch instead of the Anderson.  We already have a Blue Ox with another kind of trailer.  If we buy an Oliver could we use the Blue Ox instead of buying another one.   Less money to spend.  We are going to Tennesee in March and will be near Holenwald so we will probably do a tour of the factory.

You can use your Blue Ox if YOU can figure out how to mount it to the Oliver Frame. Oliver won't install anything but the Andersen. The Andersen was chosen early on due to the way it attaches. I'm sure there's a way to make the Blue Ox work but you might have to cut some of the fiberglass away on the propane cover. You don't mention what model Oliver you're getting or what vehicle you're planning to tow with. These two pieces of information are important to know to make an informed answer.

[topgun2]

14 hours ago, Nancy S said:

We are going to Tennesee in March and will be near Holenwald so we will probably do a tour of the factory.

Change that from "probably" to definitely!

Even if you don't get and Oliver you will learn things about camper manufacturing that will help you make better decisions in this regard.

Bill