Is a 2021 GMC Sierra Denali 2500 4x4 6.6L V8 Gas a Good TV?

[BeauDog]

I have hesitated to ask this question and beat the tow vehicle dead horse yet again, but I really could use some advise from those of you with towing experience.  I have very limited towing experience.  I have never owned a diesel truck.  I have only owned a half ton truck - never a 3/4 or one ton.

Our 2022 Elite II delivery will be the end of October of this year.  Our 1998 Dodge half ton gas truck is too old and too tired for the job of towing the Oliver.

We are retired and we plan on spending several months a year traveling with the Oliver and exploring.  We intend to primarily boondock, mostly in the mountainous west of the U.S, explore Canada a bit, and hopefully a trip or two to Alaska.

I have located a 2021 GMC Sierra Denali 2500 4x4, with a 6.6L V8 Gas engine.  It has a 6-speed automatic transmission.  401HP, 464 torque, 3.73 rear axle ratio.  It has the max trailoring package and is rated at 14,500 lbs towing capacity and 3,760 lbs payload.  The truck has very low miles and the asking price seems pretty reasonable in this crazy market.  The Carfax history looks good and I found no recalls.

According to Fuelly.com, real world users of similar GMC 3/4 ton gas trucks get an average of 11.6 mpg.  It doesn't specify whether that is towing or not towing, so I am guessing it is a blended average of both, with the majority of the data coming while not towing.  This is a big, gas-gusseling rig.

I am debating whether to buy this rig, or be patient and wait for something like a Ford F150 3.5L EcoBoost 4x4 SuperCrew to come along.  If I'm going to own a gasser, I certainly like the idea of driving a 1/2 ton around while not towing, provided it has adequate payload capacity.  Or, if I am going to own a 3/4 ton rig, would I be wise to wait for a good diesel to come along for the benefits it would provide, including better demand on resale?  As I stated above, I have never owned a diesel so I only know what I read and hear.

I don't know what I don't know, and in the realm of towing that is plenty.  I would appreciate the thoughts of the experienced people on this forum regarding the pros and cons of using the GMC 2500 6.6L gasser as a tow vehicle for our Elite II.

Thank you - I appreciate all thoughts, comments, and opinions from this group.

Marv 

 

[topgun2]

Virtually any late model 1/2 ton will do the job if properly equipped with towing package.  However, you will need to watch the 1/2 ton's payload capacity very closely and you should use the Andersen weight distribution hitch.  The 3/4 ton will generally not be a sensitive to the payload issue.  The Ford you mention will get you between 11 and 12 mpg towing the Elite II while getting over 20 mpg when not towing at interstate speeds (65mph).  The 1/2 ton is generally easier to live with when you are not towing (i.e. it is smaller).  The 3/4 ton is easier to tow with particularly if you get a diesel since you will have an engine brake.

I can't speak for the diesel since I've never owned one.

Good luck with your decision!

Bill

[BeauDog]

6 minutes ago, topgun2 said:

Virtually any late model 1/2 ton will do the job if properly equipped with towing package.  However, you will need to watch the 1/2 ton's payload capacity very closely and you should use the Andersen weight distribution hitch.  The 3/4 ton will generally not be a sensitive to the payload issue.  The Ford you mention will get you between 11 and 12 mpg towing the Elite II while getting over 20 mpg when not towing at interstate speeds (65mph).  The 1/2 ton is generally easier to live with when you are not towing (i.e. it is smaller).  The 3/4 ton is easier to tow with particularly if you get a diesel since you will have an engine brake.

I can't speak for the diesel since I've never owned one.

Good luck with your decision!

Bill

Thanks Bill. 

I like the idea of an engine brake since we plan on a fair amount of mountain driving.  I am hoping/assuming that the hill-decent assist feature found on many of the newer gas trucks will help greatly with decending, but I have never owned a vehicle with that feature.

Marv

[Landrover]

If you want a gas truck  look at the GMC Denali 1500 6,2 with tow pkg. 13,5 k towing very impressive. More than you need. If you want to jump to the Denali 2500 go all the way with the Duramax very much overkill tow rating 18,500. Lbs 450 horse power 900+  torque. The problem once you go that route with the Duramax its hard to go back as I did. It is $9700.00 more for the Duramax IMO its worth it. 

[Galway Girl]

Owned an F150 3.5 EB Supercrew 4x4 with max tow package when we bought our Oliver.
(Bought the truck first).

It had a 12,700 tow capacity, but only 1580# payload which ended up being an issue for us.
Our gear + our EII tongue wt. of about 685# constantly left us right at the payload (or a little over).

The F150 had plenty of power, and we got about 12.5 MPG towing.
However, we felt a bit uncomfortable on long downhill steep grades.
The Ecoboost 1/2 ton was about the same mass as the trailer and we felt pushed at times.
We didn't feel comfortable for mountain driving and eventually we upgraded to an F350 which we have now.

If I knew what I know now, and was buying the Truck for an EII, I would go with either a 3/4 or 1 ton.

(When we bought our F350 it's price was identical to the F250 trim level, so we went with the bit bigger payload unit.

Oh...here's a chart I made while shopping for Fords.

It shows the PAYLOAD sticker (from door) numbers for various configurations.

* Note that a stripped down  F150 (XLT) can have a 1900 LB payload in the longed configuration.
* The F250 High Capacity Option adds another 592 lbs of Payload .
* Jumping from the base F250 to the F350 adds 1240 lbs of payload.

For most folks towing an Oliver EII the sweet spot is probably a F250 or F250 + High Capacity Option.

 

C. Short

 

[Landrover]

6 minutes ago, Landrover said:

If you want a gas truck  look at the GMC Denali 1500 6,2 with tow pkg. 13,5 k towing very impressive. More than you need. If you want to jump to the Denali 2500 go all the way with the Duramax very much overkill tow rating 18,500. Lbs 450 horse power 900+  torque. The problem once you go that route with the Duramax its hard to go back as I did. It is $9700.00 more for the Duramax IMO its worth it. 

I forgot to mention my last Duramax Mpg 14-16 towing the Oliver 21mpg no towing climbs steep hills at only 1500-2000 rpm range barely working the engine. The engine braking you’ll barely touch the brakes.

[Frank C]

34 minutes ago, Galway Girl said:

Owned an F150 3.5 EB Supercrew 4x4 with max tow package when we bought our Oliver.
(Bought the truck first).

It had a 12,700 tow capacity, but only 1580# payload which ended up being an issue for us.
Our gear + our EII tongue wt. of about 685# constantly left us right at the payload (or a little over).

The F150 had plenty of power, and we got about 12.5 MPG towing.
However, we felt a bit uncomfortable on long downhill steep grades.
The Ecoboost 1/2 ton was about the same mass as the trailer and we felt pushed at times.
We didn't feel comfortable for mountain driving and eventually we upgraded to an F350 which we have now.

If I knew what I know now, and was buying the Truck for an EII, I would go with either a 3/4 or 1 ton.

(When we bought our F350 it's price was identical to the F250 trim level, so we went with the bit bigger payload unit.

Oh...here's a chart I made while shopping for Fords.

It shows the PAYLOAD sticker (from door) numbers for various configurations.

* Note that a stripped down  F150 (XLT) can have a 1900 LB payload in the longed configuration.
* The F250 High Capacity Option adds another 592 lbs of Payload .
* Jumping from the base F250 to the F350 adds 1240 lbs of payload.

For most folks towing an Oliver EII the sweet spot is probably a F250 or F250 + High Capacity Option.

 

C. Short

 

Not sure what Ford calls the option package that I have on my F-250, but it’s rated at 3,334 lbs payload.  Highest I’ve ever seen on an F-250.   Grabbed it right away when I saw it on the dealer lot.   I think it was intended to be a snow plow/salt spreader type work truck.  

[Steph and Dud B]

Had gas. Had diesel. Back to gas now. Loved towing with the diesel. Loved the costs of repairs less. Our gasser struggles a bit with our 9500# fifth wheel but I'm hoping it'll be a good match for the Ollie. We'll see.

[John E Davies]

3 hours ago, BeauDog said:

I like the idea of an engine brake since we plan on a fair amount of mountain driving.  I am hoping/assuming that the hill-decent assist feature found on many of the newer gas trucks will help greatly with decending, 

Hill Descent is used at a walking pace, it uses the ABS as a sort of low speed cruise control, for going down really steep hills. It won’t work at highway speeds. I much prefer to just engage 4 Low and shift manually, it is much less chaotic for the passengers  that way.

I suggest that you research the Ford HD trucks with the 7.3 liter “Godzilla” gas motor. It has almost diesel power characteristics, is super simple and cheap to maintain, and will pull either Ollie easily.

https://www.drivingline.com/articles/godzilla-truck-is-the-73-liter-v8-ford-f-250-a-throwback-big-block-muscle-pickup/

John Davies

Spokane WA

[jim sroka]

HI Marv

   Not to say I have all the answers so I will tell you my last twenty years of towing. First i just sold my 2008 Airstream 25 (5600 lbs dry and 960 in hitch weight), my wife and 

I put 65,000 miles on it towing with a 2014 Silverado 1500 with a 5.3 and 6 speed trans. The truck had a max tow PKG and a 373 axle . The mpg around home  19/20, towing if i stayed in the 65/70 range was 11to 12 mpg . The last trip in TX and AZ running 75 to 80+ milage was 10 to 11.  I never use cruise unless it flat with no wind.  With all that said I am waiting for my Elite 2 in June  and my new 2022 chevy 1500 with the 3.0 and 10 speed. For the last 20 years at work I have towed boat all over Michigan and other parts of the country. I have used GMC 1500 ,2500,and 3500 both gas diesel, tow from 5000 lbs to 19,000 lbs.  When I grab a truck to tow I always when i could a truck that was rated for twice trailer as the load i was moving. By doing that it was a lot nice drive, and it also gave me the best tow milage. On the 5.3 i had it ran down the highway towing @ 2200 to 2450 rpm in 5 gear and would up shift in to 6 on fall roads or with a tail wind. The Oliver weights less then my own boat by 1000 lbs a nd the hitch will be about the same. i tow the boat all over MI with out a weight equalizing hitch ,but with Sumo Springs installed. Boats do not tow near as good as Airstreams or Olivers. So with all that said I have a 2022 chevy 1500 with a 3.0 max 4 wheel drive  with a 10 speed . 12900 lbs tow rating and a 2100 lbs payload I my add Sumo Spring ( 1000 lbs units)  mostly to stop the bounce when towing the boat , they create a lot more bounce than travel trailers.  The GM 6.6 gasser are testing a 10 speed for 2023  to help them get some milage ( family works for GM trans) lots of power for heavy loads around town but I wouldn't buy one for la daily drive or long hauling.

 

                                                                                                                                                                                                   Jim

[Rivernerd]

3 hours ago, BeauDog said:

I like the idea of an engine brake since we plan on a fair amount of mountain driving.  I am hoping/assuming that the hill-decent assist feature found on many of the newer gas trucks will help greatly with decending, but I have never owned a vehicle with that feature.

I have owned a Tundra with 5.7L V8, 6-speed auto transmission and trailer package since 2008.  First a 2008, and now a 2019.  They both have the "Select Shift" feature ("S" on the gear display below the "D") which allows you to manually control the transmission with a thumb wheel on the gearshift lever.  I have towed several different trailers ranging from 3K lbs. to 6K lbs., sometimes with passengers and a loaded pickup bed, up and down the mountains of Washington, Oregon, Idaho and Montana during those 14 years.  I have been able to sufficiently control my speed with the thumb wheel going down steep hills, being pushed by the trailer, that I rarely have had to engage the brakes.

One of the reasons we bought the 2019 Tundra when the 2008 got old (in addition to our love of Toyota reliability) is this feature.  I find it remarkably useful when towing in the mountains.

[BeauDog]

50 minutes ago, John E Davies said:

Hill Descent is used at a walking pace, it uses the ABS as a sort of low speed cruise control, for going down really steep hills. It won’t work at highway speeds. I much prefer to just engage 4 Low and shift manually, it is much less chaotic for the passengers  that way.

I suggest that you research the Ford HD trucks with the 7.3 liter “Godzilla” gas motor. It has almost diesel power characteristics, is super simple and cheap to maintain, and will pull either Ollie easily.

https://www.drivingline.com/articles/godzilla-truck-is-the-73-liter-v8-ford-f-250-a-throwback-big-block-muscle-pickup/

John Davies

Spokane WA

 

Thank you, John.  Interesting option should I decide to go the big gas truck route.

Marv

 

45 minutes ago, jim sroka said:

HI Marv

   Not to say I have all the answers so I will tell you my last twenty years of towing. First i just sold my 2008 Airstream 25 (5600 lbs dry and 960 in hitch weight), my wife and 

I put 65,000 miles on it towing with a 2014 Silverado 1500 with a 5.3 and 6 speed trans. The truck had a max tow PKG and a 373 axle . The mpg around home  19/20, towing if i stayed in the 65/70 range was 11to 12 mpg . The last trip in TX and AZ running 75 to 80+ milage was 10 to 11.  I never use cruise unless it flat with no wind.  With all that said I am waiting for my Elite 2 in June  and my new 2022 chevy 1500 with the 3.0 and 10 speed. For the last 20 years at work I have towed boat all over Michigan and other parts of the country. I have used GMC 1500 ,2500,and 3500 both gas diesel, tow from 5000 lbs to 19,000 lbs.  When I grab a truck to tow I always when i could a truck that was rated for twice trailer as the load i was moving. By doing that it was a lot nice drive, and it also gave me the best tow milage. On the 5.3 i had it ran down the highway towing @ 2200 to 2450 rpm in 5 gear and would up shift in to 6 on fall roads or with a tail wind. The Oliver weights less then my own boat by 1000 lbs a nd the hitch will be about the same. i tow the boat all over MI with out a weight equalizing hitch ,but with Sumo Springs installed. Boats do not tow near as good as Airstreams or Olivers. So with all that said I have a 2022 chevy 1500 with a 3.0 max 4 wheel drive  with a 10 speed . 12900 lbs tow rating and a 2100 lbs payload I my add Sumo Spring ( 1000 lbs units)  mostly to stop the bounce when towing the boat , they create a lot more bounce than travel trailers.  The GM 6.6 gasser are testing a 10 speed for 2023  to help them get some milage ( family works for GM trans) lots of power for heavy loads around town but I wouldn't buy one for la daily drive or long hauling.

 

                                                                                                                                                                                                   Jim

Thanks, Jim.  I appreciate you sharing your thoughts with me.

Marv

 

[BeauDog]

16 minutes ago, Rivernerd said:

I have owned a Tundra with 5.7L V8, 6-speed auto transmission and trailer package since 2008.  First a 2008, and now a 2019.  They both have the "Select Shift" feature ("S" on the gear display below the "D") which allows you to manually control the transmission with a thumb wheel on the gearshift lever.  I have towed several different trailers ranging from 3K lbs. to 6K lbs., sometimes with passengers and a loaded pickup bed, up and down the mountains of Washington, Oregon, Idaho and Montana during those 14 years.  I have been able to sufficiently control my speed with the thumb wheel going down steep hills, being pushed by the trailer, that I rarely have had to engage the brakes.

One of the reasons we bought the 2019 Tundra when the 2008 got old (in addition to our love of Toyota reliability) is this feature.  I find it remarkably useful when towing in the mountains.

Thanks for that info.  That would indeed be a valuable feature.

Marv

[BeauDog]

4 hours ago, Landrover said:

I forgot to mention my last Duramax Mpg 14-16 towing the Oliver 21mpg no towing climbs steep hills at only 1500-2000 rpm range barely working the engine. The engine braking you’ll barely touch the brakes.

Thank you, Landrover.  I've heard plenty of good things about the Duramax and it has a very loyal following.

Marv

[Mattnan]

2 hours ago, Rivernerd said:

I have owned a Tundra with 5.7L V8, 6-speed auto transmission and trailer package since 2008.  First a 2008, and now a 2019.  They both have the "Select Shift" feature ("S" on the gear display below the "D") which allows you to manually control the transmission with a thumb wheel on the gearshift lever.  I have towed several different trailers ranging from 3K lbs. to 6K lbs., sometimes with passengers and a loaded pickup bed, up and down the mountains of Washington, Oregon, Idaho and Montana during those 14 years.  I have been able to sufficiently control my speed with the thumb wheel going down steep hills, being pushed by the trailer, that I rarely have had to engage the brakes.

One of the reasons we bought the 2019 Tundra when the 2008 got old (in addition to our love of Toyota reliability) is this feature.  I find it remarkably useful when towing in the mountains.

We still have a 2008 Tundra set up like Rivernerd's with 110,000 miles.   We have been on the road for almost 4 months.  We get about 12 mpg on the flat roads in Texas, Oklahoma and Arkansas.  We average 9 to 11 in the mountains going up and down.  The old Tundras are notoriously gas hogs and I only get 14 mpg in daily use.  I would suggest investigating the new Tundra but based on gas mileage on TFL, they are not getting much if any better towing.  They are in daily use.  Our Mountain experience is primarily in Arizona, Utah and New Mexico.  I operated the truck and transmission exactly as Rivernerd described.  We did have one instance of a 6 mile 6 percent down grade where I had to use the brakes on the truck and manually engaged the trailer brakes too.  This was the only time I felt the need to really use the breaks.  I am very conservative and most of the traffic passes me.  We seldom exceed 65 mph.  The Tundra has plenty of power up hill.  Up hill has not been an issue.  I think with the exception of a couple of times when I needed to accelerate to merge or pass going up a hill the engine seldom exceeded 3200 rpm.  All this said, if I were going to tow in the mountains the majority of the time, personally I would go for the diesel because of the exhaust brake.  I am leary of the increased purchase and operating cost of the diesel.  I would purchase a 1 ton as the price difference is minimal.  There may be one other solution.  I believe there are some half ton diesels.  I am not sure of the payload or capabilities.  Our boat builder, who is in his mid 70s purchased a new Ram 1500 in 2019 with diesel and he has been very happy indicating over 20 mpg.  Good luck in your search and decision

[ChrisMI]

Payload aside it’s important to realize that the curb weight of a heavy duty pickup is at least 30% higher than a half ton. That weight increase comes predominantly from stronger structures (frame, axles, brakes, etc) and drivetrain.  The extra strength of these components really does make a difference when towing a trailer. 

[ScubaRx]

Did you actually lay eyes on the sticker that stated “3,760 lbs payload?” That seems awfully high for a fully tricked out (Denali) 2500. 

[Landrover]

7 hours ago, ScubaRx said:

Did you actually lay eyes on the sticker that stated “3,760 lbs payload?” That seems awfully high for a fully tricked out (Denali) 2500. 

According to GM they are weighed after the build.  It’s nice to see all the ratings on the sticker I’ve haven’t seen this before. The redesigned frames are impressive. 2022 GMC  Denali 2500 Duramax 18500 towing 3700lbs payload vs 2017 highcountry 2500 Duramax  13500 towing 27900 payload, big difference. 

[topgun2]

12 minutes ago, Landrover said:

27900 payload

WOW!

I suspect one too many zeros.

[Landrover]

20 minutes ago, topgun2 said:

WOW!

I suspect one too many zeros.

Oops 2,700. Senior moment🥴

[Jps190]

9 hours ago, ScubaRx said:

Did you actually lay eyes on the sticker that stated “3,760 lbs payload?” That seems awfully high for a fully tricked out (Denali) 2500. 

My 2500 AT4 is just over 3000.

 

John

[BeauDog]

15 hours ago, ScubaRx said:

Did you actually lay eyes on the sticker that stated “3,760 lbs payload?” That seems awfully high for a fully tricked out (Denali) 2500. 

Thanks for the question.  I did not see the sticker when I posted that it had 3,760 lbs payload.  I got that number off of a GMC webpage.  After you asked the question I contacted the seller and asked him to send me a photo of the door sticker, which he did.  The door sticker shows the max payload is 3,339 lbs.  

[BeauDog]

17 hours ago, Mattnan said:

We still have a 2008 Tundra set up like Rivernerd's with 110,000 miles.   We have been on the road for almost 4 months.  We get about 12 mpg on the flat roads in Texas, Oklahoma and Arkansas.  We average 9 to 11 in the mountains going up and down.  The old Tundras are notoriously gas hogs and I only get 14 mpg in daily use.  I would suggest investigating the new Tundra but based on gas mileage on TFL, they are not getting much if any better towing.  They are in daily use.  Our Mountain experience is primarily in Arizona, Utah and New Mexico.  I operated the truck and transmission exactly as Rivernerd described.  We did have one instance of a 6 mile 6 percent down grade where I had to use the brakes on the truck and manually engaged the trailer brakes too.  This was the only time I felt the need to really use the breaks.  I am very conservative and most of the traffic passes me.  We seldom exceed 65 mph.  The Tundra has plenty of power up hill.  Up hill has not been an issue.  I think with the exception of a couple of times when I needed to accelerate to merge or pass going up a hill the engine seldom exceeded 3200 rpm.  All this said, if I were going to tow in the mountains the majority of the time, personally I would go for the diesel because of the exhaust brake.  I am leary of the increased purchase and operating cost of the diesel.  I would purchase a 1 ton as the price difference is minimal.  There may be one other solution.  I believe there are some half ton diesels.  I am not sure of the payload or capabilities.  Our boat builder, who is in his mid 70s purchased a new Ram 1500 in 2019 with diesel and he has been very happy indicating over 20 mpg.  Good luck in your search and decision

 

Thank you for your thoughts.  It is a goofy time to be on the hunt for a TV, but that is where we find ourselves.  Have you ever felt like your trailer pushed your Tundra around?  I am leaning toward a heavier TV for safety, but those half ton diesels are intriguing.

 

16 hours ago, ChrisMI said:

Payload aside it’s important to realize that the curb weight of a heavy duty pickup is at least 30% higher than a half ton. That weight increase comes predominantly from stronger structures (frame, axles, brakes, etc) and drivetrain.  The extra strength of these components really does make a difference when towing a trailer. 

 

Thank you for your comments.  I am leaning toward a 3/4 or one ton for safety reasons.  I would have somewhat less concern about the GMC 2500 Denali 6.6L gas if it came with an 8 or 10 speed tranny instead of a 6 speed.  Any thoughts from any of you regarding the suitability of a 6 speed transmission in a gas 3/4 ton TV?

[Rivernerd]

36 minutes ago, BeauDog said:

Have you ever felt like your trailer pushed your Tundra around?  I am leaning toward a heavier TV for safety, but those half ton diesels are intriguing.

I reported the performance of our Tundra on downhill grades with a trailer in response to your reference to engine braking and hill-assist features.  We bought our 2019 Tundra before we decided to buy a travel trailer.  Since we own it, we plan to use it to tow the Elite II, but with an Andersen WD hitch because the Tundra doesn't weight much more than the Elite II.

If we were now in the market for a tow vehicle for the Elite II, we would likely swallow hard (knowing we are giving up some reliability), and go for a 3/4 ton GMC 2500 or 3500 with the 6.6L gas engine and trailer package.  Why?  (1) Toyota does not offer a 3/4 ton pickup, yet a 3/4 ton provides a larger safety margin towing an Elite II; (2) our local mechanic has a low opinion of the reliability of Dodge pickups; (3) diesel fumes nauseate my wife and (4) Ford does not offer a Double Cab, which we prefer over either an extended cab or crew cab. 

So, we concur with your leaning:  get a 3/4 ton for safety, even though it will not be a Toyota.

[BeauDog]

1 hour ago, Rivernerd said:

I reported the performance of our Tundra on downhill grades with a trailer in response to your reference to engine braking and hill-assist features.  We bought our 2019 Tundra before we decided to buy a travel trailer.  Since we own it, we plan to use it to tow the Elite II, but with an Andersen WD hitch because the Tundra doesn't weight much more than the Elite II.

If we were now in the market for a tow vehicle for the Elite II, we would likely swallow hard (knowing we are giving up some reliability), and go for a 3/4 ton GMC 2500 or 3500 with the 6.6L gas engine and trailer package.  Why?  (1) Toyota does not offer a 3/4 ton pickup, yet a 3/4 ton provides a larger safety margin towing an Elite II; (2) our local mechanic has a low opinion of the reliability of Dodge pickups; (3) diesel fumes nauseate my wife and (4) Ford does not offer a Double Cab, which we prefer over either an extended cab or crew cab. 

So, we concur with your leaning:  get a 3/4 ton for safety, even though it will not be a Toyota.

Thanks - I appreciate your thoughts.  Theoretically, If you were to buy a 3/4 ton or one ton GMC with the 6.6L gas engine would the accompanying 6 speed transmission be of concern to you, particularly during mountainous travels?

Marv