Investigating how to mount solar panels on LEII produced without aluminum mounting plates in roof

[taylor.coyote]

My trailer was delivered without solar at a time aluminum mounting plates were not part of the standard production; thus, I don't have mounting plates in my roof line. I currently have my solar panels on the top of my truck but wish to have panels on the trailer.

I have spoken with Jason E, Steve/Scuba and my local RV shop about various adhesives and tapes as a means of attaching brackets to the fiberglass. Additionally, I have read everything I can find about unique panel mountings throughout the forum.

Although adhesives may be viable, I would like to explore the possibility of making a custom bracket(s) tying into the middle awning brackets as part of my solar panel mounting solution (I have awnings on both sides of my trailer). I would feel a lot more comfortable having at least part of the panel brackets bolted to something solid.

Does anyone have any experience using the middle awning brackets as a mounting point?  or have some creative ideas using other solid mounting points?

  

[topgun2]

3 hours ago, taylor.coyote said:

Does anyone have any experience using the middle awning brackets as a mounting point?

I do not recall this topic ever being discussed here on the Forum.  Yes, there have been a post or two about mounting a second awning but nothing (that I recall) about using those awning mounting positions for anything other than an awning.

There are tons of YouTube videos where the installation of solar panels was completed using only adhesives.  If done properly I'm guessing that there really isn't a problem with this method.  However, I do understand your concern.

Bill

[dewdev]

My suggestion is to have mounted brackets made, thru bolted to the roof hull and encapsulated with fiberglass cloth, resin and white gelcoat to match.

The fiberglass work could be done by any marina or marine repair facility.

If Oliver service was able to do that, then you could also have them install the brackets, panels, the wiring and the control devices. You could possible do that all yourself or have a RV tech do it if you are not near OTT.

[John E Davies]

I suggest that you investigate flexible panels that can be bonded directly to the gel coat. There are pros and cons - such as they transmit heat to the mounting surface and they can scratch - but they are WAY lighter than flat glass panels , don’t look bad, and don’t create any aero drag. I believe they have been obtaining better efficiency ratings in the last few years.
 

https://news.energysage.com/flexible-solar-panels/

At least run that by Oliver Service to get their feedback. 

I love my panels but IMHO they are beyond ugly on an Ollie.

John Davies

Spokane WA

[Stranded]

Yes, it is possible to add solid metal mounts between the hulls without cutting up the fiberglass, I know because I did it.  

 

My trailer came stock with the solar panels already attached.  However, back in 2021, my solar panels got damaged and the mounts got bent. Thankfully, it was only the solar panels and their associated mounts that got damaged; the fiberglass was perfect. 

 

I attempted to take off the mount by unscrewing the bolts, but they just turned in place.  I would have hoped the factory would have permanently attached the nuts to the underside plate, but they did not.  

 

I called the factory and spoke with someone (don't remember who, it was almost two years ago though) who advised the only way to get old mounts off was to either cut into the inner fiberglass hull to get a wrench on the nut, or to try and cut off the bolt from the top.  Furthermore, I was advised to attach new mounts with hardware, I would still need to cut into the inner hull.  

 

I detested the idea of cutting into the inner hull, and so I found a way around it. 

 

I took off the MaxxFan which is only held on by four screws to its mount.  This allows access to view the area between the hulls.  You'll notice when you do this, the factory epoxied a plastic PVC spacer around the perimeter of the MaxxFan.  You'll need to drill a hole in this and it will allow access to the space between the two hulls.  

 

I bought a cheap borescope off Amazon with a long extension wire.  This allowed me to view the nuts and plates used by the factory.  I used a piece of metal bar and duct taped a wrench to it.  I was then able to insert the metal bar and carefully manuever the wrench around the nut.  Then with a friend's help, he unscrewed the bolt from the top side.  I had put some duct tape around the bottom of the wrench which thankfully stuck to all 8 nuts, allowing me to remove them (I put new duct tape on each time. 

 

Now, on my hull #220, which is a 2017 model, the factory had not permanently attached underside plate.  In fact, they didn't even use a high quality set up, they only used some Fiamma awning metal plate spacer for each solar mount; it looked terribly pathetic, and they weren't even epoxied to the underside of the outer hull.  They just fell down when the nuts were removed.  To remove them, I duct taped a magnet to my metal bar and dragged them out one by one.  

 

Now, the dilemna was how to attach the new solar mounts without cutting up the inner fiberglass hull.  Here's what I did:

I sourced some 410 stainless steel that was a 1/4 inch thick.  The factory had used screw and nuts for 1/4 x 20 threads, which results in a nut thickness of around a 1/4 inch.  I used 410 stainless steel because it magnetic which would allow me to use a magnet to grab it if it wasn't in the right place.  I cut the stainless steel to around 2 or 2 1/2 inches wide and around 3 to 4 inches long.  This mimicked the Fiamma metal plates the factory used, except my steel was thicker and stronger. I then paid a machinist to drill and tap the metal plates for 1/4 x 20 threads.  I also added an eye bolt and put a string through it so I could easily drag the plate back if necessary.  You can see the plates in the above picture.  You can also the Fiamma plates the factory used on the middle right of the picture. 

 

To get the plate in position between the hulls was tricky to figure out, but ended up being easy to attach once I figured it out.  I put two pieces of string down each hole for each mount.  Prior to putting the string down, I attached a piece of metal.  I then inserted my magnet on the metal rod, which connected to the metal on the string, and I was able to drag the string to the opening I made at the MaxxFan.  I then threaded the string through the holes in the metal plate.  I then dragged the strings from the top of the outer hull, which put the plate right underneath the old holes for the old mount.  To attach the mount, I took a 1/4 x 20 threaded brass screw and drilled it out so it was hollow inside.  I then put the string through the hollow bolt.  While pulling tight on the strings, I threaded the hollow brass bolt into the stainless steel plate.  Once that was attached, I used screws and attached the other side of the plate.  I then removed the hollow bolt and attached another regular bolt.  

 

I know I'm not describing this very well, but I thankfully made a few cellphone videos when I did it back.  I never bothered to make it into a youtube video, but I have Saturday and Sunday off, and I'll turn my old footage into a quick clip and upload it Sunday.  Once you see the video it'll all make sense. 

 

The end result I was able to attach new solar panels and mounts, with underlying metal plates, all without drilling into the inner fiberglass hull like the factory told me to do.  The only cutting I did was to the spacer around the MaxxFan, which is easy to repair and is completely hidden by the MaxxFan trim.  

 

Anyway, I'll post the link to my Youtube video on Sunday.  

Edited February 6, 2023 by mossemi
Changed "holes" to "hulls", also updated the correct thread size of bolts used

[dewdev]

Stranded

Where there is a will there is a way.

Great job, thanks for sharing.

[taylor.coyote]

Stranded,

Wow, you are tenacious working through uncharted waters. Impressive to say the least. I see four new plates in the image. I'm assuming you replaced all four plates/brackets. The front plates are in the range of 60" from the max fan opening.  If so, your accomplishment is more impressive. With your coaching, it still appears to be a significant test for ones patients. Prior to your communication I was imaging how to make some crazy brackets anchored between my awning's brackets or using adhesive.  I look forward to your video.

[ADKCamper]

A couple of folks have posted threads detailing solar panel mounts utilizing awning brackets:

https://olivertraveltrailers.com/forums/topic/3379-zamp-solar-panel-add-ons/

https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/added-2-90-watt-panels-to-the-solar-array-for-520-watts-total/

We did something similar on our 2018 LE... adding an extra 90 watt panel parallel to the curb-side awning, attaching the "outboard" side of the new panel to the awning mounts and the "inboard" side to a long (approx 3ft) piece of aluminum strut channel that was VHB-taped to the roof. As a belt 'n suspenders safety feature, the front end of this strut channel was bolted to one of the existing solar panel brackets, and the rear end was stainless steel cabled around one of the air conditioner frame vents. Lots of custom angles and tapered spacers to match up with the roof contours, but it turned out quite solid. We get up there and check the attachments a couple of times each year just to be sure.

Might be possible to make a cross-frame between both awnings to support solar panel(s). We only had the one awning however.

 

[Stranded]

1 hour ago, taylor.coyote said:

Stranded,

Wow, you are tenacious working through uncharted waters. Impressive to say the least. I see four new plates in the image. I'm assuming you replaced all four plates/brackets. The front plates are in the range of 60" from the max fan opening.  If so, your accomplishment is more impressive. With your coaching, it still appears to be a significant test for ones patients. Prior to your communication I was imaging how to make some crazy brackets anchored between my awning's brackets or using adhesive.  I look forward to your video.

I didn't have a choice, I live too far away from the factory, and my fiberglass skills aren't good enough to make a seamless repair. Thankfully, when my solar panels got hit, the weak point was the mounts, which is what bent, thus preserving the fiberglass, but all 4 mounts were too far gone to be easily straightened.

 

Once I figured how to fix everything, it wasn't that hard, and didn't require that much patience. The tough part was coming up with the idea for the hollow bolt, and the decision to just tap and thread the plates themselves.

 

If I had to do it over again, I could probably knock it out in about 4 hours maximum.

 

Once you see the video, it'll all make sense.

[ADKCamper]

The LE only has 3 awning brackets. Using the front or middle bracket directly would cause interference between the existing panels and the new panel, so I used an offset from the middle bracket, plus the rear bracket.

Awning off:

Bracket alignment and attachment. Bottom 2 screws are flat-head so as not to interfere with awning attachment. Upper 2 hex head bolts are temporary until the awning is remounted through those holes.

From memory, the awning brackets were something like 9 degrees from vertical, so the new solar brackets needed to be bent in order to be vertical where the solar panel attaches on the top.

You can never have too many clamps and spacer blocks!

Curbside brackets cut to proper height and mounted. Note the inboard aluminum strut channel is VHB taped to the roof... it had to be partially cut in 2 spots in order to be able to bend the flat, continuous base to follow the slight front-to-back curvature of the roof while still keeping the strut in one continuous piece (for maximum VHB tape contact area).

Inboard brackets made from large aluminum angle, one rightside up and one upside down to follow the curve of the roof.

Rear inboard angle bracket mounted "upside down" and at a slight angle to follow the roof curvature

"Belt 'n suspenders" bracket at front of strut channel to help keep strut from lifting with wind load on the panel.

Rear attachment to strut channel, with safety cable to help keep strut/panel from flying off the roof if VHB tape lets go.

Top view of almost-completed installation

Completed and in-service!

[ADKCamper]

Stranded - impressive (and creative) repair!

[taylor.coyote]

another Wow... love the creative solution. at this point I'm hoping to get the stock 340w panels on brackets w/back-up plates per Stranded's coaching. This will be a big win.  I'm hoping these panels will do the job to service 4 AMG / around 400ah batteries. If we desire more panel surface after the stock panels are in place, I feel fortunate  to have awnings /brackets on both sides of my trailer.  Picking up on your installation ideas would make for a clean / solid solution for additional panels .. Very Nicely done.

 

  

[taylor.coyote]

Stranded,

I have spent a good share of time thinking about your process of getting tapped mounting plates inside the roof panels. 

Questions:

1. Do you see an advantage of attaching the I bolts for the possibility of dragging the plate back to the max fan vs just drilling another hole at the edge of the plate?
2. Do you feel it wound be reasonable to apply some slow curing adhesive to the top of the plates so they will bond to the roof? The idea would be to make future work on the solar bracket easier and not require the imbedded knowledge of having to engage one hole at a time to prevent the plate from dropping loose into the roof hollow .. 
3. How long is the brass bolt?
4. Was drilling the brass bolt a simple task for the machine shop?
5. Do you think using thicker material for the plate and countersinking a bit make it easier to thread to bolt into the plate?
6. I'm thinking using surveyor's cord would be small dimensioned and strong for pulling the plates into place. Do you have a recommendation?
7. Does the rod for the magnet to "catch" and pull the string from the bracket hole back to the max fan need to be flexible? what did you use for this rod? 

 

[taylor.coyote]

Can someone tell me where to source the standard bracket that Oliver bolts to the roof for the solar panels?

In my case, I'm starting with a naked roof and not tied to the production bracket. Does anyone have any suggestions for a bracket that may be a better alternative bracket?  

[Geronimo John]

19 hours ago, taylor.coyote said:

My trailer was delivered without solar at a time aluminum mounting plates were not part of the standard production;

Anybody know what year OTT started imbedding solar mounting plates in the OE2's?

Thanks, GJ

[Geronimo John]

   deleted

[AndrewK]

2 hours ago, taylor.coyote said:

Can someone tell me where to source the standard bracket that Oliver bolts to the roof for the solar panels?

 

They are from AM Solar.

Andrew

[taylor.coyote]

Andrew,

thank you.. I think I'm on a good path to getting my panels on the roof. "Stranded" (above in this conversation) has come up with a very cool bracket solution. I'm committed to AMG batteries for the foreseeable future. I have a Zamp controller now but open to look at new more efficient controllers w/ better battery management tools.  a new controller would need handle  AMG batteries now and lithium down the road.  Because my roof is a clean slate, I will be able to mount my panel brackets within reason, anywhere on the roof.  I'm open to panels other than the 170 watt zamp. I could leave the 170 watt panel I have on my truck with an umbilical cord to supplement what ever I put on the trailer. I look forward to talking when you get home.

 

best

[mountainoliver]

My 2017 hull #208 has the solar panel backing plates. My trailer did not originally come with solar. ScubaRx helped me install the controls and wiring and Oliver service installed the panels. I have a photo that I took during construction of the underside of the outer shell that clearly shows the plates fiberglassed in place along with plates in all of the awning mounting locations as well.

[Stranded]

Here's a quick video of how I attached the solar panel mounts to my trailer.  It'll say part 2, and I'll upload Part 1 and Part 3 on Sunday.  Part 1 shows how I removed the old mounting brackets, and Part 3 shows me actually installing the mounting bracket on my trailer.  But Part 2 shows the theory and why I did what I did.  It's 12 minutes, but everything will make sense once you watch it. 

 

 

[Tom and Doreen]

Ingenious! Excellent analytical thinking and practical expertise; impressive! 

[Stranded]

11 hours ago, taylor.coyote said:

Stranded,

I have spent a good share of time thinking about your process of getting tapped mounting plates inside the roof panels. 

Questions:

1. Do you see an advantage of attaching the I bolts for the possibility of dragging the plate back to the max fan vs just drilling another hole at the edge of the plate?
2. Do you feel it wound be reasonable to apply some slow curing adhesive to the top of the plates so they will bond to the roof? The idea would be to make future work on the solar bracket easier and not require the imbedded knowledge of having to engage one hole at a time to prevent the plate from dropping loose into the roof hollow .. 
3. How long is the brass bolt?
4. Was drilling the brass bolt a simple task for the machine shop?
5. Do you think using thicker material for the plate and countersinking a bit make it easier to thread to bolt into the plate?
6. I'm thinking using surveyor's cord would be small dimensioned and strong for pulling the plates into place. Do you have a recommendation?
7. Does the rod for the magnet to "catch" and pull the string from the bracket hole back to the max fan need to be flexible? what did you use for this rod? 

 

1. I used an Eye bolt so the string wouldn't get smashed against the underside of the outer hull.  In my first iteration of the plates, I actually epoxied the Eye bolt to the underside of one of the plates, which came out looking terrible, and I didn't use the plate anyway since I wanted thicker steel, and I wanted magnetic in case I needed to use a magnet to maneuver the plate over any wires.  

2. I didn't think to use a slow curing adhesive, and in retrospect I'm glad I didn't.  If I keep the trailer a few more years (but at the rate my kids are growing, it'll probably be too small for our family), I assume solar panel technology will get better, and I'll want to get more aerodynamic panels, like the Zamp Obsidian series.  With the way the mounts are now, I can easily remove them and relocate them if necessary. When I put these on, I was trying to solve so many issues, I couldn't be bothered to also redesign the panels I'd even use since I wanted to get back to camping. 

3. I think the brass bolt was 1.5 inches.  

4. I drilled the brass bolt out myself at a buddy's house who has a drill press.  The brass drilled out easily.  I only used a machine shop to drill and tab the 410 stainless steel plates because 410 is tough to work with.  The local machine shop only charged me $5 per drilled and tapped hole, and at $40, that was one less aggravation I didn't have to deal with. 

5. The countersink is important because it makes it easier for the bolt to locate the threads.  On my first iteration of plates, I didn't have the countersink, and I couldn't find the threads.  

6. I just used string from Home Depot.  I had to pull one of the plates out with it, and it worked just fine.  

7. It wasn't a rod, it was a long metal strip of metal from Home Depot.  It's sold in 48 inch length, and about 1/2 wide.  I needed thin and flexible to duct tape a wrench to it.  I just kept using the same piece of metal for the whole of my experience.  I had to wash off the oils from the metal before taking it in the trailer, and I did paint it since the metal rusted easily without the oil.  It'll show up in my part 1 video.  Again, I was making everything up on the fly as I went along.  

[Stranded]

43 minutes ago, mountainoliver said:

My 2017 hull #208 has the solar panel backing plates. My trailer did not originally come with solar. ScubaRx helped me install the controls and wiring and Oliver service installed the panels. I have a photo that I took during construction of the underside of the outer shell that clearly shows the plates fiberglassed in place along with plates in all of the awning mounting locations as well.

Interesting, mine was built just after yours, but they didn't attach the plates.  Maybe because mine is an Elite 1 and yours is an Elite 2.....?

I was really hoping the plates were attached on mine, I was disappointed they weren't.  

[Rivernerd]

On 2/2/2023 at 8:29 AM, John E Davies said:

I suggest that you investigate flexible panels that can be bonded directly to the gel coat. There are pros and cons - such as they transmit heat to the mounting surface and they can scratch - but they are WAY lighter than flat glass panels , don’t look bad, and don’t create any aero drag.

Observing the remarkable efforts documented above to add solar panel brackets, I am compelled to renew John Davies' recommendation that you consider flexible solar panels.  I mounted an 11-watt flexible solar panel on top of a Pelican 1600 case 20 years ago to recharge batteries on extended river trips for my CPAP machine. I still use it. 

To increase my solar capacity, I added a second Pelican 1600 case, with a somewhat smaller, but more powerful 20-watt solar panel, last year.  Flexible solar panels have gotten better and less expensive over the past 20 years.  They are commonly mounted on fiberglass boats.

If I were in your shoes, I'd be considering large flexible solar panels that can simply be screwed to the outer hull, rather than standard solar panels that require brackets.

Below is a link to one option:

https://www.renogy.com/350-watt-solar-flexible-kit/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMImNHpxvf5_AIVXjKtBh3qrQMFEAQYASABEgLXR_D_BwE

 

[Stranded]

As promised, here's the little video clips I made when I removed and replaced the solar panel mounts.  Please excuse how cluttered my trailer was, it's usually very tidy.