Leaderboard

Had an issue with our pump (2018 LE2) just a few days ago. Thought it would likely be one of the switches. These are (effectively) double throw-single pole switches (there are 3 unused connectors so switches are technically double throw-double pole) in cabin and bath with 2 traveler wires with +12 v in the middle spade connector, so if one combination of switch orientation between the cabin and bath didn’t work the other should of it’s a traveler spade connector disconnecting. I first looked visually at the 15 amp fuse under the dinette and it looked ok. Next morning I tried the different water pump switch combos between cabin and bath to no avail. The switch leds were off all this time. I then pulled the fuse to check for continuity on my multi-meter and it checked out ok. When reinstalling the fuse I heard the pump actuate and the led flickered a few times before turning solid. I think the issue was likely the pressure switch. There are 2 red leads at the front of the pump and I think these are are on opposite poles of the pressure switch and the switch had gotten stuck. The ground wire connection seemed ok so I am convinced it was not the switch spade connectors being loose. Anyway I would have never thought pulling and reinstalling a fuse would remedy the issue. The switches must have been in the on combination for this to happen. Not sure how the leds are wired as they should be lit in either state of the pressure switch (connected/disconnected).

As far as I can tell, I’ve made the first automatic leveling system for the Oliver’s Barker stabilizing jacks! Maybe even the first 3-jack leveling system on a travel trailer! It’s simple to operate, safe, and works great! I built the leveling system as a novelty for my own entertainment, so I’m only posting it as a interest item not a recommended project. In reality, manually leveling with the electric jacks is already easy, particularly with a LevelMate, so automatic leveling isn’t really needed. There are even warnings that the jacks are stabilizers, not to be used for leveling. However, I believe the warnings are more about liability than capability, as long as the jacks are used within reasonable limits. I'd been thinking about an auto-leveling project for a long time, but was deterred by the thought of modifying the jacks with fiddly proximity sensors or revolution counters as used in conventional leveling systems. I didn't want to alter the jacks for a DIY project that might not even work. But then it dawned on me. The only time I really needed to know the position of the jacks, is when retracting them to their parked position. I wasn’t interested in returning the tongue jack to the truck hitch hight like some systems offer. So this led to a revelation that automatic leveling could be done with nothing more than current sensors mounted in a control box rather than on the jacks themselves. This was only possible because of the Barker jack’s mechanical clutch. When the jack reaches the end of its travel, the clutch activates with a distinct clack-clack sound. It was likely that clutch engagement would produce a unique current signature that could be used to detect when the jack is fully retracted. A plan was developing, but I needed actual amperage values for proof of concept. Fortunately I had a data logging ammeter, and the chart below illustrates the results for one of rear jacks starting from its fully retracted parked position. The jack was extended through free air until it touched ground and began picking up load, maxing out when the wheel lifted off the ground. Then it was retracted to the parked position until the clutch actuated: I didn’t include the tongue jack chart because it's far less dynamic — it's always under load, and the clutch doesn't normally actuate during leveling. The clutch only comes into play after trailer is hooked up to the TV and the tongue is manually retracted. The amperage results confirmed that current sensors could work, and beyond detecting the parked position, they could also be used to distinguish the different leveling phases: rear jack extension until firm ground contact for stabilizing, and then transition to "roll" leveling if needed. Completion of the rear jack phase could then trigger the tongue jack phase to handle "pitch" leveling. The amperage chart became the basis for the circuit and software design. No proximity sensors. No revolution counting. No permanent modifications — just two wires to each jack, a component box, and a control board. Sounds easy, but this was only just the start of a long process to perfect the system. I hope someone finds this interesting! Cheers! Geoff

Custom Automatic Leveling for the Oliver's Barker Jacks — Part 2 Here is some more detail of the automatic leveling project as it transitioned from an idea to a working prototype. The project evolved from concept with safety and trailer protection as core design priorities. Limitations were built into the software including current-based motor cutoffs and maximum leveling offsets to prevent over-stressing jack capacity and minimized frame stress. On the mechanical side, the design incorporates fail-safe circuits, redundant shutdown methods, and four levels of overcurrent protection. A side benefit is the electronic monitoring of jack condition where abnormal current can reveal lubrication issues, mechanical wear, or circuit degradation before they become catastrophic failures. First step was writing a program script with open source Arduino software, and then uploading it to an ESP-32 microprocessor. The ESP-32 is basically a $10 miniature computer with programmable memory and integrated WiFi module (I might develop a Leveling App later). It receives inputs from a Inclinometer and two 50 amp current sensors, and it sends outputs to a status LED, a piezo buzzer for audible tones, and a 8 channel Darlington driver that converts digital inputs to 12 volts for relay coils. Six 30/40 amp Bosch style automotive relays are wired in an H-Bridge configuration to run the jack motors in forward and reverse. With a basic design plan and software, a test board was needed for proof of concept before anything could be installed in the trailer. The test board included potentiometers to simulate jack current, and LEDs to indicate the jack's up and down movement. It had a status LED, an isolation relay LED, a piezo electric buzzer, and a circuit board mounted with the microprocessor, inclinometer, drivers, and power supply. These standalone plug-in modules are wired together with soldered jumpers on a generic printed circuit board. Testing resulted in many design and software changes as the bugs were worked out. During this time it became evident that the tongue only needed the inclinometer for leveling, no current sensor required. I also realized that the jacks should be run in decreasing intervals with a limited number of leveling attempts before timing out. Another improvement was to run the jacks uninterrupted in free air until they were firmly seated on the ground for stabilization — before starting incremental leveling movements as needed. Current values are easily adjusted if more or less stabilizing pressure is desired. Testing found a flaw with the inclinometer. Thankfully they came in three-packs and I replaced them because they wouldn’t stay calibrated. The inclinometers have accelerometer and gyroscope functions, and it turned out that the accelerometer has known drifting issues. After turning off the accelerometer in the software, it worked great! In the end, the Arduino script grew to over 1,000 lines of code. With a lot of trial and error, a sequence of operation was developed: When the Level button is pressed, the rear jacks lower without interruption until they are seated on the ground in a firmly stabilized position (phase 1). If the trailer is level at this point, then there is no further action and an audible “happy tune” indicates successful level was achieved. If the trailer is not level after phase 1, then the left or right jack is cycled in intervals starting at 1.5 seconds (~1/2” travel) depending on how close to level it is. As the trailer gets closer to level, the interval shortens to account for coasting and fine adjustment to within 0.2 degrees of level. During the roll leveling sequence, a pitch limit of 5 degrees prevents the rear jacks from inducing too much pitch. It's a safeguard that temporarily interrupts roll leveling while it moves the tongue jack to bring pitch back within limits. Phase 2 pitch leveling begins, if needed, after roll level is achieved. When roll and pitch are level, the “happy tune” is played. The system allows up to 20 level correction attempts per axis before declaring unsuccessful leveling with a “sad tune.” The operator can stop the leveling at anytime with the On/Off switch or by re-pressing either momentary button. The “Retract” function proved difficult to program because of the mechanical clutch. Originally it was programed to shut off when the mechanical clutch actuated in the parked position, which is 13 amps. This didn’t work because the jacks had a current spike when coming off load, and there were oscillating current spikes during the clack-clack of the clutch that caused shutdown before before a clack was heard. These spikes hadn’t shown up in the time compressed current chart, but they were picked up by the current sensors. This was resolved in the software with a current delay when coming off load, and a longer delay when the clutch actuated so a few reassuring clack-clacks could be heard for audible confirmation that the jacks were fully parked. The leveling system was designed so that the jacks manual switches could remain fully functional. However, the H-Bridge relay configuration reverses the motor polarity for the up or down direction, and that could cause a direct path to ground when using the manual switches. To prevent this, I used a normally open relay to isolate the ground when the leveling system is not being used. I used a single 250 amp generic lawnmower starter relay on a common ground bus for all 3 jacks. It seemed reasonable. .. what could possibly go wrong? Hope this is still interesting…Cheers! Geoff Please excuse poor photos, I just didn't take very many!

A 2' level does the job. Set on the rear bumper for side to side. Add levelers as needed, chock and disconnect. I take the 2' level up against the belly band and raise or lower to get level Actually a good idea to have the tongue raised slightly to allow flow in the tanks toward the back. Very simple

This is brilliant! Oliver already makes it pretty easy to level the trailer. But if I wanted to make my camping friends (even more) jealous, I would build this and watch them grimace with envy.

Exactly how I do it.

Not sure if this is of any help, but I have attached the dimensional drawing for the Oliver front box, FYI.

With a 7k trailer, if it was held only by the jacks (or if one jack lifted the tires) they'd be at 2,333 lbs each and the 2026 Barker 3000 VIP jack is rated to 3k lbs. So the limiting factor is the rear jack mounting. It's not nearly the same as the the front jack I think, but without looking (I'm not at the trailer) I think it might be attached to the frame? Oliver tends to over engineer at any rate which I approve of. Also unknown long term effects. Anyhow that's a crazy nifty solution, nuts to have that level of automation in a small trailer like this, but I think its great. What I like even better is that water valve panel, as beautifully done as it is the under bed solution is a PITA.

Impressive! Thanks for sharing.

Cross-over of water from the black tank into the gray tank through the common vent absolutely can and has occurred. More than one owner has attached a black tank flush hose, turned it on and forgotten about it. When the black tank fills water rises up the black vent and spills over into the gray vent. If the shower drain valve is closed the water comes up through the shower drain. If the shower drain valve is open the gray tank fills and then the water comes up through the shower drain.

Yes, as Mike explained and as John wrote nicely in two short sentences. Perhaps you did not see bubbles in the gray waste since there was enough gray water to break down the soap, kill the bubbles, which did not occur in your black waste. For a fact, black and gray waste are two independent systems, except for the venting of sewer gases as @Townesw illustrated above. However, the vents are at a height, a couple of feet taller, where the cross-over of liquids simply could not occur. Gray water would fill the shower floor and overflow into the cabin well before the height of these vents could be reached.

Both sinks and shower drain are plumbed to the gray tank. The toilet drains into the black tank only.

In my trailer, yes, I am sure. Input to the black tank is from the toilet on top. There is also a vent opening that is on the right side of the black tank. Except for the dump opening, that’s it. In my trailer, the bath sink drains down and goes under the shower, joining with the shower drain to empty into the gray tank. I had an issue once where the bathroom drain pipe unattached itself from the gray tank causing gray water to flow the length of the trailer and out by the back bumper. I epoxied the drain pipe back onto the gray tank and problem solved. Your black tank is 15 gallons, gray is 30ish. That may have had some effect on your bubble test. I’ve spent plenty of time under the bathroom sink doing work and (in my trailer) there is no connection between the sink and the black tank. Someone will point out that there is a shared vent connection, but I don’t think that’s what we’re talking about here. Mike

Happy Travels -- hope to see you on the road somewhere!

Welcome to the group! This is a helpful place so don’t hesitate to ask. Mike

Welcome.

Welcome to the Family! Looks like you are off to a great start - nice rig and a couple of nice camping spots too. If you haven't been to the Oliver University yet, it is a great place to see articles and videos. And, of course, have fun poking around here on the Forum for all sorts of ideas of ways to make that "new" 2018 all yours. Finally, feel free to ask questions - there are a bunch of folks here that are more than willing to help. Bill

Have you tried to get a voltage reading at the pump with your VOM? If you don't have a VOM, you could also test for voltage at the pump positive (red wire) with a test light probe: Realize that this is a basic question, but at least you'll know if the pump "is" or "is not" getting power. Battery voltage at pump & pump not running = bad pump. If there's no power to the pump, you're probably "ok" to assume the pump is functional. We've had several pumps fail over the years and that's why we travel with a spare. One is none. Two is one....: Keep us informed of your troubleshooting progress - good luck! Best, A & D