New to this forum, looking for feedback on Lithium package

[serge]

Hello,

My wife and I will be joining the community of Oliver owners in August.  This is our first trailer (had a Westfalia for many years), we need to finalize our build sheet and although our minds are set on the options we want there is one we are still debating and that is the electrical group, our first choice was the Lithium Pro package (400 AH batteries) but now I see that we can opt for the Lithium Platinum package (630 AH). Your opinions, experiences are welcome on the pros and cons of such systems.   We are looking at doing a mix of boon docking and and sometime regular campings but are not full time RVers.  

Looking forward to your input. 

Regards,

Serge

[Galway Girl]

I'm upgrading my 2019 to the 630AH Lithiums this month....because my 4 - AGM's died after 18 months.
I'm choosing to NOT upgrade to the 3000W Inverter as it would cause major rewiring of my 2019 EII.

As you choose, first notice that there are two "inverter" options also at play along with the Lithium Battery sizes.

A 2000W inverter/charger is wired to run the uWave, fridge and outlets.  And normally are sold with the 3 - lithium batteries.
The 2000W charger will output 80-100A for charging the batteries.
A 3000W inverter/charger is wired to also be able to run the A/C off the inverter and is available with the upgraded 630AH batteries.
The 3000W charger will put out 150A for 50% faster charging of the LI batteries.

The Lithium Platinum package includes the 3000W inverter, so you'll be able to run the A/C off of the 630AH Lithium batteries for a while.
(How long depends on how hot it is, how much power you're solar is bringing in etc.)

Differences with the dual 315AH Lithionics Batteries offered in the Platinum Package:

1) Housed in a rugged Aluminum Alloy Enclosures
2) Built In Battery Cutoff cutoff switches
3) Internal heater for cold weather charging 
4) Also has the built in Bluetooth monitoring via a phone/tablet. (See Attached PDF of the battery Owners Manual).

I'm confident if you choose either of the current Lithium Packages you'll be getting a very well designed system that will last many years longer than the typical AGM based systems.

 

GTX12V315A-E2107-CS200-Battery-User-Guide-RevA.pdf

[SeaDawg]

How long are your boondocking stretches? 

We're on day 5, with a compressor fridge, and two 105 ah agm batteries, 400 watts fixed solar, 200 watts portable. Granted, the weather is ideal, but we haven't broken out the generator yet.

 Weather has been great. 79s day, 50s night, no heat or fan needed.  SO, pretty much the only things running are the fridge (around 60 amp hours per day), occasional water pump, and a few hours of led lights.

Are the two discussed packages the same brand (lithionics)?

[serge]

Thanks for this precious feedback, regarding the inverter both package come with the 3000 watts.  Originally the Pro Package came with LifeBlue brand batteries, I am not sure if now they still come with LifeBlue or Lithionics, I need to check this out. Galway Girl, you seems to have evaluated several options from Lithionics, do you know if the internal heating system is standard on the 200 AH or unique to the 315 AH? This is something I need to take in consideration as we live in Canada and unfortunately don’t have an ideal weather...  

SeaDawg, you’re experience is interesting, but at this point difficult for us to say how long we will be boondocking, I am assuming a week at a time as we would need to replenish food and drop our waste water.  We will also probably consume more Amp/H  than you considering our type of travel. 

Again thanks for your input. 

Serge

[SeaDawg]

16 minutes ago, serge said:

We will also probably consume more Amp/H  than you considering our type of travel. 

Most people do.

We really monitor and squeeze power, because of our limited battery capacity. We're not honestly the model to follow. If you camp a lot in cool weather, you'll use maybe twice the amp hours, or more, running the furnace fan.

However, I am always  concerned that some people spend a lot on battery power, without a good reason. Some people  need it, others just  want it. 

I find these discussions interesting,  too. My husband and I  have been discussing lithium alternatives when our 5 year old agm batteries die. We'll probably only add one or two 100 ah lithium batteries. It will be enough, for us.

Small portable generators are cheap insurance,  if solar doesn't keep up, imo.

[Galway Girl]

I believe at this point Oliver is committed to Lithionics for all LI packages for ship dates later in the year.

The GTX315 has the heaters built in, the other model which Oliver Uses does not have a heater and charging cuts off at 32F or 0C

Datasheet for the 130AH unit is here:

 12V130A-G31-LRBM8-R5.pdf

 

Pix from the data sheets to quick compare:

 

Up to 3 of these Lithionics G31's fit in the battery bay of the Oliver.
The Oliver specific version slightly higher watt hour rated.

 

Two of these Fit in the Battery Bay as part of the Platinum LI Package.
These same batteries are used in Winnebago Class B's and other Motorhomes..

 

 

[Time2Go!]

14 hours ago, serge said:

Thanks for this precious feedback, regarding the inverter both package come with the 3000 watts.  Originally the Pro Package came with LifeBlue brand batteries, I am not sure if now they still come with LifeBlue or Lithionics, I need to check this out. Galway Girl, you seems to have evaluated several options from Lithionics, do you know if the internal heating system is standard on the 200 AH or unique to the 315 AH? This is something I need to take in consideration as we live in Canada and unfortunately don’t have an ideal weather...  

SeaDawg, you’re experience is interesting, but at this point difficult for us to say how long we will be boondocking, I am assuming a week at a time as we would need to replenish food and drop our waste water.  We will also probably consume more Amp/H  than you considering our type of travel. 

Again thanks for your input. 

Serge

On our 2021 we ordered the Lithionics batteries (3) with the internal heating system, the bluetooth connection for monitoring. We got the Lithium Pro Pkg (only one offered when we purchased) that has the 3000w inverter. We purchased the soft-start for the air conditioner. We haven't camped off grid except 1 night so far (only picked up 02.22.21) since I still work full time. We are planning a 2 week trip to Utah in September and hope to boondock the majority of the time.

It may be overkill for now but upon retirement it will get plenty of use.

Cindy

[SeaDawg]

Serge, I  just realized this was your first post. Welcome to the forum!

[serge]

Truly appreciate everyone feedback, not sure if it will make my choice easier (Ha! Ha!) but certainly learned a few things that I will need to take in consideration before finalizing my choice. 

Serge

[ScubaRx]

On 4/29/2021 at 1:54 PM, serge said:

Hello,

...we are still debating and that is the electrical group, our first choice was the Lithium Pro package (400 AH batteries) but now I see that we can opt for the Lithium Platinum package (630 AH). Your opinions, experiences are welcome on the pros and cons of such systems.   We are looking at doing a mix of boon docking and and sometime regular campings but are not full time RVers.  

Looking forward to your input. 

Regards,

Serge

I will paraphrase a statement from an old pilot friend of mine. "The only time you have too much fuel (battery power) is if everything is on fire."

I just replaced the four original AGM's that were delivered in our 2014 trailer with three Battle Borns. They're only a total of 300 aH. Get the most you can afford. You'll probably end up boondocking more that you think.

[serge]

Really like your statement, if you don’t mind I will steal it shamelessly and use it... I believe it applies to many situation. 🙂

[Cameron]

For what it's worth, I am beginning to use my new trailer with the solar pro package, 390 amp hour lithionic batteries. Pulled into the campsite last night at 9:00 p.m., no hookups, batteries were 100%, according to the phone app. Used some lights, the water pump before calling it a night, and left the max fan on at about 40% all night long just to keep a little bit of fresh air flowing in the trailer. When I woke up, the phone app showed 91% on all three batteries

[Mike and Carol]

1 hour ago, mywinnemucca said:

For what it's worth, I am beginning to use my new trailer with the solar pro package, 390 amp hour lithionic batteries. Pulled into the campsite last night at 9:00 p.m., no hookups, batteries were 100%, according to the phone app. Used some lights, the water pump before calling it a night, and left the max fan on at about 40% all night long just to keep a little bit of fresh air flowing in the trailer. When I woke up, the phone app showed 91% on all three batteries

That’s pretty good.  As a comparison, I have two 100ah Battle Born batteries and with about the same usage I read around 85% in the morning.  Mike

[Galway Girl]

Here's our State of Charge data for the dual GTX 315's in our trailer (Hull 505) over a few days of boon-docking at Kalaloch on the WA Coast.

• NO Generator Use, No Shore Power.
• 340W Solar on Roof and 30A Zamp Controller On Board
• No direct fully sunny days

Power Uses:

1. Ran the max fan at night on low for air circulation and most of the afternoons
2. Used the microwave sparingly to do some popcorn.  Didn't do the Oven.
3. Did NOT run AC as in our setup we have a 2000W inverter, not connected to the AC.
4. Watched TV  (we have a DC powered TV) each night for about 2 hours (streaming from downloads on the tablet.)
5. Ran 2CPAPS all night for 8 hours.
6. Did NOT run the generator nor hook up to any shore power.

DATA:

Starting AH: 630AH Total Capacity (both batteries) 

8:00 AM Day 1 was 100% Partial Sun
6:40 AM Day 2 was 90% Rainy Day
6:13 AM Day 3 was 83% Rainy Day
8:27 AM Day 4 was 75% Departure Day

Total Used AH: 154AH   or 52AH/day   
Remaining AH: 236+240 = 476AH (sum of both batteries) 

I estimated with the dual 315A Batteries we could last 12 total days in overcast conditions like those we experienced with our normal power use model.
My guess is if we had the 390AH Battery Set we could maybe last about 7 days.
So that means the Dual 315's enable about 5 more days of off grid camping given our use model.
*Your use model may be very different* 

We'll be testing full sun as we travel in Aug-October and we will post an update.

Hope that data helps some folks!.
 

 

Craig

Hull 505 - Galway Girl

 

 

[connor77]

On 7/23/2021 at 9:54 AM, Cameron said:

For what it's worth, I am beginning to use my new trailer with the solar pro package, 390 amp hour lithionic batteries. Pulled into the campsite last night at 9:00 p.m., no hookups, batteries were 100%, according to the phone app. Used some lights, the water pump before calling it a night, and left the max fan on at about 40% all night long just to keep a little bit of fresh air flowing in the trailer. When I woke up, the phone app showed 91% on all three batteries

If you don't mind me asking Cameron, what were you using to power your frig?  I have the same battery package that you have so I'm just curious to know if I'll get a similar number (~91%) when we use the same accessories that you did.  Thanks...

[Cameron]

Hello! When connected to shore power the fridge  is on auto and switches over to AC. When not connected it runs on propane. I've been visiting friends during this trip so have had plenty of hook ups for electricity. When the opportunity arrives, I'll experiment on running it off the solar package.

[GarryandKristi]

It all depends on what scenarios you will actually be in.  We have the 4 6v (2 pairs in series, then pairs in parallel) 400 AH AGMs. Got our elite 2 in August 2018. We chose not to get solar because most of the campsites we anticipated and do use are here in the east and shaded. We have done several dry camping trips (with a few 3 nights). Always had enough power but do switch the fridge (absorption) to gas and normally don’t use microwave much. We do run the max air all night most of these trips with no problem.  Did get a bit low on voltage when we used the microwave more than normal. If we need ac when drycamping - so far we haven’t been in the situation- we would run our inverter generator (we did get the soft-start on the AC.  So for us this works fine and upgrading for us would probably be more for re-sale.  When the AGMs go - I suspect we will seriously consider the lithiums, but not an inverter upgrade as the only reason for that that I can see would be to run AC and that would require rewiring - plus you we wouldn’t be able to run the ac very long on batteries anyway.   So, I guess we are one of the few without solar but for us it has been perfectly fine.  Just another (lower end) perspective.  

 

[SeaDawg]

1 hour ago, GarryandKristi said:

So, I guess we are one of the few without solar but for us it has been perfectly fine.  Just another (lower end) perspective.  

 

It's not lower end, as no Oliver ever made is lower end. It was evidently the best decision for you, based on your camping plans. Practical.

I commend you for not overspending, for something you won't use.

Thanks for providing another perspective. 

[John E Davies]

serge, did you ever get your Ollie? Pictures would be welcome.

John Davies

Spokane WA

[Mike and Carol]

2 hours ago, John E Davies said:

serge, did you ever get your Ollie? Pictures would be welcome.

His IP maps to London.  He says he’s from Austin in the Northwest Territories.  I don’t think he is or will be an owner.  His posts are being moderated.

[John E Davies]

9 minutes ago, Mike and Carol said:

His IP maps to London.  He says he’s from Austin in the Northwest Territories.  I don’t think he is or will be an owner.  His posts are being moderated.

I was asking Serge, the OP who started this thread last year, not the Austin “bot”. I was wondering what happened, did the sale fall through? Serge seems to be a live human being..

John Davies

Spokane WA

 

[Mike and Carol]

30 minutes ago, John E Davies said:

I was asking Serge, the OP who started this thread last year, not the Austin “bot”. I was wondering what happened, did the sale fall through? Serge seems to be a live human being..

Yep, my bad.  I was just checking on Delaneywud and saw your post.  It’s rough getting old.  Mike

[Going]

On 7/23/2021 at 12:52 PM, Galway Girl said:

Here's our State of Charge data for the dual GTX 315's in our trailer (Hull 505) over a few days of boon-docking at Kalaloch on the WA Coast.

• NO Generator Use, No Shore Power.
• 340W Solar on Roof and 30A Zamp Controller On Board
• No direct fully sunny days

Power Uses:

1. Ran the max fan at night on low for air circulation and most of the afternoons
2. Used the microwave sparingly to do some popcorn.  Didn't do the Oven.
3. Did NOT run AC as in our setup we have a 2000W inverter, not connected to the AC.
4. Watched TV  (we have a DC powered TV) each night for about 2 hours (streaming from downloads on the tablet.)
5. Ran 2CPAPS all night for 8 hours.
6. Did NOT run the generator nor hook up to any shore power.

DATA:

Starting AH: 630AH Total Capacity (both batteries) 

8:00 AM Day 1 was 100% Partial Sun
6:40 AM Day 2 was 90% Rainy Day
6:13 AM Day 3 was 83% Rainy Day
8:27 AM Day 4 was 75% Departure Day

Total Used AH: 154AH   or 52AH/day   
Remaining AH: 236+240 = 476AH (sum of both batteries) 

I estimated with the dual 315A Batteries we could last 12 total days in overcast conditions like those we experienced with our normal power use model.
My guess is if we had the 390AH Battery Set we could maybe last about 7 days.
So that means the Dual 315's enable about 5 more days of off grid camping given our use model.
*Your use model may be very different* 

We'll be testing full sun as we travel in Aug-October and we will post an update.

Hope that data helps some folks!.
 

 

Craig

Hull 505 - Galway Girl

 

 

This is good info.  Thanks for posting with detail.  I have a 2017 with the AGM batteries and they are dead. (Never were much good)  Won’t even lift the front jack now.  I have been checking with the factory about upgrading and it is 15k for the Platinum package and around 12k for the Pro.  Seems like a no brainer to get the Platinum based on your calculations and the costs is basically the same as new option from what I can tell.  I plan to retire end of 2023 so will be more boon docking.  At least that is my plan.  My only thought is will the Lithium continue to change and improve with all the emphasis on green.  My thinking turns back to the 90s and 2000s when PCs were obsolete 6 months after you bought them due to the geographically morphing technology.  Basically doubling in speed and capacity in the same time period Thoughts?   Also this is a bit off topic but wondering if related to the batteries being dead.  You seem to have a good grasp of electrical DC.  Noticed last week that now my fridg won’t run on gas if disconnected from AC shore power.  It will if connected. Could this be related to the dead batteries? The fridg tries to start on Gas but clicks off immediately.  Does the gas power need at least some battery power to run on gas?  Thanks.

[Steph and Dud B]

41 minutes ago, Going said:

Does the gas power need at least some battery power to run on gas?

Yep. The control board, ignitor, etc. need 12v DC to operate.

[dewdev]

Yes, you need DC power to run the  controls of the refrigerator. With the dead batteries, you will likely not see any of  the control lights being lite.

Also, the owner's manual for the refrigerator tells you that you need 12V power (or plugged into 120V power which gets changed to 12V).