Has COVID ruined camping?

[Steph and Dud B]

"Price-elastic." Love it. That's a great phrase. Wish we were more price-elastic! 

[SeaDawg]

I don't mind paying a bit more as an out of state camper. Maybe not double (yikes), but many states charge extra, or don't offer senior discounts for out of state campers. I don't get senior discount in Canada, either, nor do I expect to. My fees are the only way I'm supporting that spot I'm occupying. My tax dollars aren't supporting them, since state parks get little or no federal funding. 

State parks get twice as many visitors as National Parks. A lot of states have cut back funding from general taxes, and the only way they can pay their way is through fees.

Frankly, it's always been really hard for a Florida resident to get a weekend site in the popular parks in the winter. They're booked way ahead by Northern visitors. Our camper sits through most winters. I wish our parks would charge a bit more for out of state plates, too.

 

[SeaDawg]

At a veterans day party last night, we had an interesting conversation with a couple who towed their new 5th wheel 6000 miles on its maiden voyage, from Florida to Quebec and back this year. They only stayed in a few state parks, because their trailer is so tall. They prefer Koa (which we don't), because of the amenities and level spots, lack of offending tree branches, etc. 

That gave me some heart, actually.  Our smaller trailers fit in tinier spots, so maybe we only need to worry so much about the millenials, who tend to choise tent camping and/or buy littler trailers. 😁

[Steph and Dud B]

Campground owners convention: https://www.rvtravel.com/rvers-can-look-forward-to-more-tech-and-less-touch-higher-prices/

Good news: more campsites/campgrounds coming. Bad news: more "dynamic pricing" and 50% non-refundable deposits. Planning a long trip moving from commercial campground to commercial campground could be risky now. A mechanical problem, or other unforeseen issue, could blow your itinerary and cost you a ton of money on lost deposits and "dynamically priced" new reservations.

For your typical RVer these changes really favor short haul "stay and play" trips. If they wanted to travel any distance, they'd be better off hotelling it - where they can usually get their deposit back within 1-2 days of arrival date if plans change. For us, finding a last minute site to charge/dump/refill will probably cost a lot more.

On the bright side, this should really cut down on those people who are booking a bunch of days and then cancelling last minute to go to their other choice. That should increase campsite availability somewhat. Less reserved sites sitting empty. And building more campsites is always good, too.

The unknowns: How many new RVers will find all this just too inconvenient/expensive? Not exactly the travel flexibility and freedom promised in those RV ads. How will this affect state/national parks and their reservations/pricing? How many of these Millennial families will be willing to boondock instead of dealing with the commercial campgrounds?

I still feel like/hope this is probably a bubble and the campgrounds could be overreaching with these new prices and policies. If they start pricing campsites like hotel rooms I think a lot of people will park the RV and head to a Hilton. Maybe even us.

[John and Debbie]

On 11/11/2021 at 10:51 AM, topgun2 said:

HERE is a statistical study of camping in 2021 based on a reasonable sample of just shy of 4,000 survey responses.

Unfortunately, it does not address any information concerning the supply side of the function (i.e. additional camping sites).

Bill

That was very interesting.   As far as additional camping sites,  I see ads for Harvest Hosts and Boondockers (I think that was the name for the second one).   Someone, or maybe a few,  in this thread mentioned having plan B, C or D also.   I am optimistic that we will be able to find spots when we do get out.   For many years we just don't go out on Memorial Day or Labor Day weekends.   Too crowded. 

[John and Debbie]

On 11/12/2021 at 7:57 AM, DaveM said:

Sheesh gang I rely on you already Ollie owners to slow feed me the CoolAid while I await delivery in March 2022. Don't tell me camping is ruined even if it's true!

I am realistic that camping has changed and is now more popular. Sites will be more difficult to get and require planning. Since we are purchasing while still working, we will use our Ollie locally in Michigan and get used to all of the bells and whistles it offers. We also have not spent a lot of time camping for extended periods outside of our backyard so we don't remember the glory days when you could show up and find a site. Maybe that helps us have more realistic expectations?

I do hope and think the fervor will die down in the coming years and the camping life will still be appealing. Time will tell.

Good perspective.   A quick analogy:  I was a pharmacist for 40 years.   For me the glory days were 20-40 years ago.   Computers came and insurance companies realized that they could put all the billing on to us.   The new pharmacists coming on didn't realize that it was ever not the insurance mess it is now.   We hope to get our Oliver next year so we won't have any reference point to compare how things were.   Best wishes to you and your new Oliver. 

[BoondockingAirstream]

We dry camped this year in Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Utah Colorado, Arizona, New Mexico, South Dakota and a few over nights in Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas and Nebraska this Spring, Summer and Fall.  No restrictions and 'wide open' for hikers and outdoor people in general.  The Air was fresh, cool and brisk!

A couple camped in Utah at 10,000 feet were staying inside their trailer wearing face masks.  They never left their trailer.

We found everyone was enjoying the outdoors and not concerned about what City Folk were fearing... no body.  Had lively discussions about camping and how to find great camping spots.  Known or undiscovered places.

Smaller towns had a sign asking you wear a face mask.  Many Service Stations did not in some less populated areas.  It was hit and miss this Summer.  

Campsites... no Covid fears.  Bow hunters... no Covid fears.  Fisherman... the same.  It was a wonderful experience getting out and feeling 'normal' again.

If you are planning to Boondock in the NFS and BLM or State Lands... it was wide open in the Rocky Mountains. We laid back and aaaaaaah.... 🙂

Planning a Western Adventure?  No congestion of campers... the trailer crowd were at RV Camps. The public lands were wide open during peak season.  It was a pleasant surprise that we were all... alone. Popular areas like Cedar Breaks at 10,200 feet in July & August, just east of Cedar City, Utah had 80% vacancy in the trees and in the wide open spaces.  It snowed and hailed one day... in August by Duck Creek.  Enough to cover the ground for several hours.

Anyone who says the RV Parks were crowded... they missed out on the wide open trailer accessible dry camps. Those who manage to be comfortable Off the Grid... do not Plan to go out West into the Rocky Mountains. Just... GO and be the 'accidental tourist'. We have done it since 2006 and return to many of our favorite campsites... never to be disappointed that the area was full.

We even got a Daily Campsite on the west side of Flathead Lake in Montana... by just driving up and had NON Reserved spots available... for people like us.  No Plan. No Reservations.  No worry... Try it.  You will become Young and Ambitious Boondockers.  After a few attempts learning how to manage at the worst spot in nowhere... it is better than having neighbors within five feet of you camped! Any day.

Even Meteor City, west of Albuquerque, New Mexico... was great.  Blue Heelers, too. 

 

 

[Jim_Oker]

On 11/12/2021 at 12:44 PM, Steph and Dud B said:

"Price-elastic." Love it. That's a great phrase. Wish we were more price-elastic! 

Yeah, I don't think my usage of the phrase is quite spot-on and would probably not be how a trained economist would have put it, but I think the gist still comes across https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_elasticity_of_demand

[topgun2]

Jim_Oker

Close enough - price elasticity will almost always change depending on where you are looking on the curve and at what time (or times) you are looking.

Your point was well taken.

Bill

[Rivernerd]

8 hours ago, Jim_Oker said:

Yeah, I don't think my usage of the phrase is quite spot-on and would probably not be how a trained economist would have put it, but I think the gist still comes across https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_elasticity_of_demand

My undergraduate degree is in Economics.  Your use of the term "price elastic" makes perfect sense to me in this context. 

As does the Idaho State Parks policy.  Washington residents are not paying Idaho state taxes to support Idaho state parks, so it is fair to charge Washington residents more to use them.  I was a Washington State resident for 35 years, but now live in Idaho again, so I have experienced both sides of that issue.

[BackofBeyond]

I will add to the elasticity verbiage - perhaps the Covid effects on our RV experience centered around time elasticity. The shoulder seasons have always been our best times for discovery, avoiding the "on" season crowd. As my SO enjoys her professional life way past normal retirement - time is not as elastic as it could be -a little more rigid than I prefer. 

I'm also finding my physical "elasticity" waning with each cycle around the sun. Ahh such is life.

RB

[Overland]

We just got back from a trip and didn't have much trouble finding spots.  I made two reservations ahead of time that I knew we'd need - Great Basin and Palo Duro - but everything else was either BLM or no reservations and had no problems.  Could have done USFS at Great Basin, but the campground was mostly empty after the first night, so it was just as well.  

[Jim_Oker]

13 hours ago, Rivernerd said:

My undergraduate degree is in Economics.  Your use of the term "price elastic" makes perfect sense to me in this context. 

As does the Idaho State Parks policy.  Washington residents are not paying Idaho state taxes to support Idaho state parks, so it is fair to charge Washington residents more to use them.  I was a Washington State resident for 35 years, but now live in Idaho again, so I have experienced both sides of that issue.

thanks, and I agree re: the policy

[Overland]

I think the problem with that philosophy is that state parks aren't made and maintained just for state residents.  Typically, they're a big part of a state's tourism marketing.  So there's a balance to be made, same as any other tourism business - yes, the point of drawing people in is to make money off of them; but if you're too much of a hog about it, you can easily piss off your customers.  I hit that threshold at a state park in MO, where the fee was something like $50 extra for being out of state, for what I have to say was a lousy little park that offered nothing for me but it's location for a one night stop.  We stayed at a private place nearby for considerably less, and that experience has made me wary of state parks from then on.  If it's something reasonable - under $15 difference or so, or if the park has something particularly interesting to offer, then no big deal; but if not, I'll find something else.  We paid, all in, I think $48/night for Palo Duro in TX this last trip, just because I'm always interested in a decent place to stay along that stretch of 40.  Worth it?  Maybe for one trip - quiet campground and some nice hiking trails.  

In contrast, we stayed at Red Rock canyon west of OK City on the way back.  It was only $20, but I'd never pay it again - awful place, and in fact we ended up moving camp to their parking lot at 1am just to get at least half a night's sleep.  I think that experience may have convinced my wife that WalMarts are no longer off the table.

I noticed that KOA has upped their rates to around $50 across the board as well, which is for me about $30 more than night at a place like that is worth.  

 

[SeaDawg]

Red Rock in OK was one of those victims of budget cuts. It's no longer an OK state park (since 2018). Privately operated. I'm really sorry you had a bad experience. 

Beyond state parks, there are many camping opportunities,  as we all know. COE, fish and wildlife, nfs, blm, county and town campgrounds dot the maps. (For example, driving through Iowa, little campgrounds near small towns are everywhere, if you Google camping near whatever tiny town. They won't have necessarily great views, but clean and neat, and less than $25 a night, for the most part.)

I'm confident we'll all find spots, if we look. 

We've only camped in a handful of Florida parks, because we leave in the summer heat, and northerners and Canadians have booked many of the best parks before we even think about it.

Our camping opportunities in prime park spaces are limited during our "season." I understand that, and that's why I'd find a reasonable surcharge helpful. Get some spaces open for us residents,  and get a bit of additional revenue from those who don't live here. Not double. Not $50 extra, but $10 is surely  reasonable. 

I wonder about the "tourist marketing" angle. Though we always try to spend local as we camp our way to wherever, I suspect campers don't really contribute that much to the local economy.  From what I've seen, they buy groceries and gas, for the most part. There's only so much we can carry in our campers, after all. When we camp, we try to be an asset rather than a burden. But, the seasonal increase of traffic in our Florida communities is something we have to gear up for, year round. Roads, ems, police, etc. Quite certain we (as a state) make much more from foreign owners and renters of luxury condos on the beach, who pay some significant taxes. 

 

 

 

 

[Mike and Carol]

We’ve stayed in MO state parks (just last month at Table Rock State Park near Branson) and had no out of state surcharge.  We also stayed at Red Rock Canyon in OK a few years ago when it was still a state park and had a very nice stay, sounds like it has gone downhill since becoming private.  Mike

[Mountainman198]

UPDATE:

After having been on the road now since Dec 12, first in NM and now AZ I am happy to report that there still seem to be open spots for those of us who like to fly by the seat of our pants, not making reservations far in advance. 
 

We have camped in NM And AZ State Parks, private campgrounds, National Parks and boondocked at our usual spots without having yet been turned away. 
 

Asking the Rangers and Camp Hosts about cancellations, group sites, overflow and Un-used camp volunteer sites has worked for us the few times where there were not vacant sites available. 
 

Glad to see that at least in the SW the campgrounds do not seem to packed solid this year. 

[Mike and Carol]

1 hour ago, Mountainman198 said:

 

1 hour ago, Mountainman198 said:

Glad to see that at least in the SW the campgrounds do not seem to packed solid this year. 

 

If you have any flexibility even AZ state parks will have some availability on short notice this time of year.  If you aren’t flexible then you need to start making reservations about 12 months out!!

[Landrover]

As I look at a lot of campground reservations its still the norm but worse the week end warriors who block off spots just about every weekend for months just to save a site. (Friday to Sunday)    Sunday - Thursday,  Sunday being the most open time in the afternoon to get a good camping spot. We try to avoid state parks on weekends  unless we’re there for extended stays.  No name private campgrounds work well on weekends while traveling long distances. Some are good  some not so good.  The adventures of camping.😬